KimT Posted January 30, 2006 Before Christmas a Danish newspaper had a comic strip which featured a pic of the Prophet Muhammed. This has caused anger towards Denmark in the Islamic parts of our world. As it all seemed to die a Norwegian newspaper reprinted the strip and now megablocks is lose. In Palaestine they burn the Danish flag and threaten to attack Danes and Libya and Syria has withdrawn their ambassadors - over a comic strip - is this insane or is it just me? Thinking about it - what is the worst - an ironic comic strip or burning a nations flag? For more infor read this article from CNN.com KimT [yes I'm Danish - not the bread! ;) ]*viki* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JINZONINGEN73 Posted January 30, 2006 I'll never for the life of me understand how people can let religion drive them to such lengths of insane hatred and violence. This world is SO doomed. Then again, maybe it'll take near-complete destruction of the world to bring people out of their infantile beliefs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zane Posted January 30, 2006 People take the entire world so seriously now that it's depressing... Had to put that last bit in my sig, Jinzo, hope ya don't mind. ;) TT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck Posted January 30, 2006 Silly humans... -l2k- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuvieD Posted January 30, 2006 I can understand the boycott of goods or the burning of a flag but marching heavily armed troops into a civilian office with threats, that is not even right. I do have to say that people feel free enough to have "free speech" as long as they are protected from bullets but I hardly think they would dare try to pull something like that in Gaza itself. Everyone has the freedom to say what they like. Everyone does not have the itelligence to know when to keep their mouth shut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JINZONINGEN73 Posted January 30, 2006 Had to put that last bit in my sig, Jinzo, hope ya don't mind. ;)TT Not at all, it's true. If you only knew the things I know about the next 10 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cutty Posted January 31, 2006 This reminds me so much of the ill fate that dutch filmmaker had to suffer. I mean being murdered by a islamic fanatic over a controversia, yet just, movie that thematizised violence against and abuse of women in islamic societies. It's a shame a co-student of mine (himself a practizing muslim) found the above case of murder entirely justified...even heaviest arguing didn't seem to have any impact on him. So far, so bad... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snefroe Posted January 31, 2006 i wouldn't really take it serious. this doesn't have much to do with religion, but with politics. Some politicians in the Middle East are using this incident to criticise the West and especially the EU. Denmark is after a close ally to the US and a rather small state within the EU. so it's an opportunity to point the finger at Europe. Usually, it's the other way around... i've been in the middle east a few times and in my experience, moslims are perfectly capable of laughing with their own religion, jews are even world famous for this. what stings is the fact that it's the West again, criticising, or making fun of moslim society. it's quite normal, really, i mean, flemmish people laugh with their own deficencies, but that doesn't mean they like the Dutch joking about it as well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gylman Posted January 31, 2006 i wouldn't really take it serious. this doesn't have much to do with religion, but with politics. ... I have to disagree with that statment. I very much fear what the world is coming to in the next 20 years as a result of intolerant religious fundamentalism. I don't think this is a simple matter of politics. While the West has high minded debates on what is right and what is wrong, Islam, a religion followed by a billion people, has been hijacked by a school of thought and a ruthless minority that do not see the world in the same way as us spoiled morally ambivalent Westerners. They know what is right and what is wrong, and are not interested in a debate. It only takes a committed minority to lead a fearful and timid majority into a course of events that the majority, or any sensible group of people speaking calmly to each other, would not want. This has happened many times in recent world history (WW1, WW2, cultural revolution, Cambodia, etc), and mass media and weapon proliferation have only made the possibility easier and more deadly. There's some bad S**T coming our way - first in the Middle East, then Europe, and finally North America. Ironically, the only Westerners capable of resisting what is going to come are going to be the equally disturbing fundamentalist Judeochristians - less bloodthirsty perhaps, but equally certain of their "rightness". Moderates on any side will not do well. I think that many things we took for granted 10-20 years ago like separation of religion and state, freedom of association, freedom of travel, freedom of idea exchange without fear of retaliation are going to change, and we will look upon those 20-30 years between the end of hte Cold War and the beginning of the Faith Wars as a golden area, now almost over. Like Jinzo said..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gylman Posted January 31, 2006 It's a shame a co-student of mine (himself a practizing muslim) found the above case of murder entirely justified...even heaviest arguing didn't seem to have any impact on him. So far, so bad... Absolutely my experience. Intelligent and educated muslims - physicians, scientists, businessmen - I and my family have spoken to and worked with, people whom you woudl think you could have a discussion with, hold the same opinions (9/11 a Jewish conspiracy, Israel should be destroyed, Salman Rushdie should die, non-believers must become believers eventually, etc etc). Scratch the veneer of the education and apparent civility and you find a core of inflexible and intolerant beliefs that have been indocrinated since infancy and that is not likely to be altered by any debate. The "live and let live" school of thought is not strong in Islam these days. There was a time when it was not so bad, but extremists seem to be the only voices heard these days, and all opposition is simply killed. It's h ard to fight against an opponent that is happy to die as long as they think they are doing the right thing. The only people who can fight it are people who have their own absolute beliefs. People like me, who don't really believe in anything except in trying to live their lives in peace without bothering others or being bothered by others, don't stand a chance. Iceland is looking like a nice place to live these days. Europe most certainly will not be. EDIT:Oh, wait. I believe in the power of LEGO! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kikuichimonji Posted January 31, 2006 I read that in the paper today. Pretty sick... But the first thing the title reminded me of was the movie Unbreakable Go see it! It's good! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted January 31, 2006 I can understand the boycott of goods or the burning of a flag but marching heavily armed troops into a civilian office with threats, that is not even right. I have to disagree - the burning of the flag is as stupid as the comic itself. They say "You can't depict our Prophet and now we burn Your flag" - That's even more insulting. They do exactly the same. Burning the flag is an act of treason or declaration of war... though it won't come to that (hopefully). As for this thing blowing over - I don't think so. The Danish Red Cross has evacuated their workers in Palaestine and the Scandinavian Milk Company ARLA has lost close to 10 million Danish Crownes per week and has to lay off 100 employees. Today the newspaper has issued an excuse in Jordan and our Prime Minister has said that he finds the comic strip bad... BUt my guess is that the fanatics will never hear of this... Kinda stupid since Denmark is one of Palaestine's fiercest supporters. Man I hate religion when it gets mixed with politics - thank You Luther for fixing my part of the World. KimT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KimT Posted January 31, 2006 The above was written by me. I just forgot to sign in.. Didn't knew guests could post in this new version. KimT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Christian Posted January 31, 2006 I can understand the boycott of goods or the burning of a flag but marching heavily armed troops into a civilian office with threats, that is not even right. I have to disagree - the burning of the flag is as stupid as the comic itself. They say "You can't depict our Prophet and now we burn Your flag" - That's even more insulting. They do exactly the same. Burning the flag is an act of treason or declaration of war... though it won't come to that (hopefully). As for this thing blowing over - I don't think so. The Danish Red Cross has evacuated their workers in Palaestine and the Scandinavian Milk Company ARLA has lost close to 10 million Danish Crownes per week and has to lay off 100 employees. Today the newspaper has issued an excuse in Jordan and our Prime Minister has said that he finds the comic strip bad... BUt my guess is that the fanatics will never hear of this... Kinda stupid since Denmark is one of Palaestine's fiercest supporters. Man I hate religion when it gets mixed with politics - thank You Luther for fixing my part of the World. KimT I totally agree with you KimT, that politics and religion should be more seperated then it is in this situation now. As a dane my self, have I been following these events in the TV very closely. I have the deepest respect for every kind of religion, but still I think this is ridicoulus! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snefroe Posted January 31, 2006 i wouldn't really take it serious. this doesn't have much to do with religion, but with politics. ... I have to disagree with that statment. I very much fear what the world is coming to in the next 20 years as a result of intolerant religious fundamentalism. I don't think this is a simple matter of politics. While the West has high minded debates on what is right and what is wrong, Islam, a religion followed by a billion people, has been hijacked by a school of thought and a ruthless minority that do not see the world in the same way as us spoiled morally ambivalent Westerners. They know what is right and what is wrong, and are not interested in a debate. It only takes a committed minority to lead a fearful and timid majority into a course of events that the majority, or any sensible group of people speaking calmly to each other, would not want. This has happened many times in recent world history (WW1, WW2, cultural revolution, Cambodia, etc), and mass media and weapon proliferation have only made the possibility easier and more deadly. There's some bad S**T coming our way - first in the Middle East, then Europe, and finally North America. Ironically, the only Westerners capable of resisting what is going to come are going to be the equally disturbing fundamentalist Judeochristians - less bloodthirsty perhaps, but equally certain of their "rightness". Moderates on any side will not do well. I think that many things we took for granted 10-20 years ago like separation of religion and state, freedom of association, freedom of travel, freedom of idea exchange without fear of retaliation are going to change, and we will look upon those 20-30 years between the end of hte Cold War and the beginning of the Faith Wars as a golden area, now almost over. Like Jinzo said..... the reaction to it all was political: ambassadors were called back, politicians interfered, and what happened in Palestinia was most likely orchestrated... here in Belgium, this thing got into the news because of the political consequences, nobody cared about the fact that some newspaper published a drawing of Mohamed or portrayed Mohamed in a disrespectful manner... It's not about that at all... not so long ago there was a highly successful moslim woman pzerforming as a stand up comedian, the only thing she did was making people laugh with her religious jokes, mosloms, jews, everybody felt it was great!... i don't feel that western freedom or values are at risk at all. sure, some sections of the media are trying to push it in that way, but in reality i'd have to say media are writing whatever they want to... in fact, they're even going waaaaay to far. for instance, i don't think the media should be writing about the divorce of Kim Clijster's parents; None of their business. the thing is, we're going too far with freedom of speech, we seem to think you can say or write whatever comes to your mind, sometimes even hoping to get harmfull responces like Van Gogh, ... people should respect unwritten boundaries, we do that here as well, so why not in real life? that's being respectfull towards each other, and has nothing to do with freedom of speech... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kikuichimonji Posted January 31, 2006 the thing is, we're going too far with freedom of speech, we seem to think you can say or write whatever comes to your mind, sometimes even hoping to get harmfull responces like Van Gogh, ... people should respect unwritten boundaries, we do that here as well, so why not in real life? that's being respectfull towards each other, and has nothing to do with freedom of speech... Well, you also know what became of him. I mean, he did go to far at times, but still, that's no reason to kill him... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KimT Posted January 31, 2006 Great :glare: Earlier today a terrorist fraction in Iraq declared a fatwa on the Danish forces and there's even been demonstrations in Baghdad over this megablocking comic strip. In Palaestine they've begun burning pics of our prime minister along with pics of George Bush. This is not good being compared to the USA (no offense, but our foreign policy is a little different). And even Bahrain demands that our Queen excuses for the entire Danish nation - I am so ready to go to my attic, fetch my uniform and sign up for war (jk). It's just a comic and they've even said SORRY several times - the world is odd. That does it - while writing this I just heard in the radio that the newspaper that printed the pics has recieved a bomb threat and the police is currently evacuating the premises. Man this better be a hoax threat or else this is going seriously outta hand... KimT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gylman Posted January 31, 2006 Killing someone because you don't agree with what another person in that country said..... hmmm.... that's the kind of thing we can understand and rationalize right? NO it isn't! We have no comprehension of such things. But millions of Muslims have no problem with it. It's not up for discussion. That's OK though. Any moment now the Danish prime minister will prostrate himself before the screaming masses and beg forgiveness, and the crisis will blow over for now. Until the next time, unless the world learns to self-censor. Except next time the threshold will be lower. And the screaming masses will know that if they make enough noise, even blow up a place or two, they can make any weak-kneed soft Western country cave in. Wait until the 5% minority in a European country decide they really want Sharia law in that country for themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cutty Posted January 31, 2006 by the way...is the comic strip available online anywhere? could someone provide a link? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoubleT Posted January 31, 2006 We dont want people to burn EB flags ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cutty Posted January 31, 2006 but I believe people can only make up their mind over something through autopsy...so discussing a comic strip, which acted supposedly as a spark in a fireworks-factory, may be fine and all, but what the real controversial momentum in this case is, will only reveal itself to those who lay their eyesight upon the corpus delicti first handedly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KimT Posted January 31, 2006 but I believe people can only make up their mind over something through autopsy...so discussing a comic strip, which acted supposedly as a spark in a fireworks-factory, may be fine and all, but what the real controversial momentum in this case is, will only reveal itself to those who lay their eyesight upon the corpus delicti first handedly PMing you KimT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KimT Posted February 5, 2006 Crap... Now the megablock hits the fan. The Embassies of Denmark, Sweden, Chile and Norway has been burnt down in Syria. This is SO going the wrong way. As far as I recall an attack on an embassy is an attack on that country's soil. - so if we were to follow the ordinary ROE then we are at WAR. I hope it doesn't come to that. Over some stupid drawings - the world is odd *wacko* KimT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snefroe Posted February 5, 2006 Crap... Now the megablock hits the fan. The Embassies of Denmark, Sweden, Chile and Norway has been burnt down in Syria. This is SO going the wrong way. As far as I recall an attack on an embassy is an attack on that country's soil. - so if we were to follow the ordinary ROE then we are at WAR. I hope it doesn't come to that. Over some stupid drawings - the world is odd *wacko* KimT 1) hm... an attack against denmark is an attack against a NATO country, so NATO is at war now? :biggrin: calm down a bit... this kind of thinking doesn't really help... 2) i still think people are blowing this out of proportion. first, i don't see why people in the Middle East should be shocked by what's being printed in a danish newspaper. Again, it's orchestrated. Denmark just has the bad luck to be the European country involved... You mention Syria... do you really think the government doesn't have anything to do with these attacks? Politicians are just using this to strengthen their own position in their own country. after all, they know how dangerous the introduction of western democracy is, they know they're out of business if there are democratic elections, so by responding to these cartoons, they kill two birds with one stone: 1) they compromise the west; 2) they promote themselves as great muslim leaders, hoping they can damage the extremist parties in the Middle East. Egypt or Jordan are perfect examples... 3) besides, the first people in the Middle East to react to this was the Palestinian people, the most secularised of all muslims in the Middle East. Obviously Hamas has everything to do with this. After all, everybody is the west is now saying they won the Palestinian elections not because the people are behind their program, but because they hate the Palestinian Authority. this is a great chance to show the world they're wrong... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutley777 Posted February 5, 2006 religion started when people lived in cave's and believed in the weather gods. i personaly think that is where it should have stayed. most wars of today are religious based. it is a shame mankind can't see this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
