Concerns community as of late

[Cutty]

Well I figured I might utter my concerns with the more or less subtle tensions I sense on the boards lately.

All this talk about banned members/getting banned/ banning someone/the possibility of banning members left me with a great concern. I might list a convolute of posts to illustrate my point, but I will now mention the Avatar thread in theater solely, where Lost Viking did so conveniently sum the whole case up into the words " Lol, this has been going on for one and a half pages!" ...

Besides that I noticed an increased hostility between the members lately. I can't just point my finger on it, but soon after Dark1 "left us" there were many, and I mean MANY, accusations of spamming against a multitude of members. I find that very disturbing since I remember the golden age that made me join up here in the first place some months ago... a golden age of endless off-topic discussion, lols and humour everywhere.

I see this fading, and I don't know whether it has anything to do with a steady increasing number of members, or anything else...

I just want to add that I am very reluctant to post nowadays, because I feel I can by no means be certain how humour, irony and a healthy dose of sarcasm are percepted right now.

Please, I do not want this (still) fine place to transform into another community with "pre-installed thought control", and I know most of you will know as well of which place I speak here... most have been there and experienced it themselves.

But don't get my point wrong! I do not want to post in a "cuddly cotton-candy community" either, where members will not discuss controversities of any kind.

I just feel the need in some people for a little more lowliness and less hostility.

Awaiting ban-threats from this point forward,

Cutty

[Jipay]

I can understahnd your point cutty. The admins also regret the good old period when we were able to discuss endless topics for ages. The main problem today is that we have a lot of new members (kids mainly) that don't get second degree, forcing us to control a little bit more the forum.

Still, we don't bann people for the pleasure of doing it (or do we ? :D ) but in the case of dark1, he was a troll, annoying little kid and his posts were in no way ment to be funny. This guy would have been able to discuss with himself.

Now I don't think the fact that we are more present as admins and mods is such a problem. We are only here to keep the forum troll-free. As for the off topic, I don't think you'll ever see an admin warning you for being off topic or keeping a thread going on (the great war has now more than 50 pages).

Hope that helps, if you have any question, feel free to ask

[Kikuichimonji]

If I may offer my opinion on the "kids issue": I think you shouldn't allow kids to sign up untill they are a certain age (say, 13). And if they do, point them at the rules at give them a (temporarily) ban. I know it isn't fair for most kids, but most forums actually use this technique.

Just my 2 cents...

[Sarg_Kulo]

I know what you mean, I remember when I first joined here, I was the 88th member so the community was still pretty young and fresh.

Part of me misses the off topicness and the endlessness of posting, but part of me also likes the more organized EB.

Maybe we should have a random forum where you just post pointless crap, the humor and fun forum was kind of like this but still had some organization to it.

My 2 English Pennies.

[Graynar]

I joined Eurobricks because it seemed like a friendly community. I may not post ten posts a day but I do check the site everyday and I noticed lot's of members being banned lately.

Well Dark1 had it coming. ;)

May Eurobricks continue to prosper.

[Vader]

You have all raised good points, for me we are a victim of our own success.

As sarg pointed out in the old days we could post off topic and get away with it (lord knows myself and Orlego used to all the time) but times have shanged and we no longer have that option, if we go off topic these days then it just goes nuts.

EB has grown so quickly and it seems that were getting bigger each day so maintaing the friendly atmosphere is something that we have found harder over the last few weeks, but i feel that we are along way off of becoming like certain other sites out there.

Now i see that many people are worried about the banning thats been going on, well it should be noted that in the last 6 months we have only banned 3 members.

Dark1 who we tried to talk too but just wouldnt listen so we sent him to the chamber to try and educate him, we thought that we had made some progress but once let out he started to spam all over again. So a second trip to the chamber was his punishment. Once let out again he just returned to spamming so we really didnt have much choice but to ban him.

Then their was a guy who registered and told us all aload of rubbish before telling us to go to hell, so banning him was what i believe to be justified.

And lastly their was legokid whom i believe was dark1, after spamming we sent him to the chamber and asked him to please stop and his response was to tell us we were idiots and dared us to ban him.

Overall i dont feel that weve banned anyone who didnt deserve it, we created the chamber as a way to try and talk to people. Its hoped that in the chamber we can explain to members why they are their and why not to misbehave here.

We could just ban memebers who misbehave here straight away, but we dont like doing that and i hope that we will be able to teach members who enter the chamber how to behave here.

[The Hordesman]

I believe EB needs to be more strict when it comes to banning and the like- the type of Dark1 I think should have been banned long before the "That will do >-| " race. But since I dont know every mod and admin here I cant be certain if its such a great idea yet, Ive seen forums convert into nazi regims because of corrupt moderators when the admins are gone and pissed admins... Not to critize, but I dont know how you people are yet to see if someone is a potent "forum tyrant". ;)

An easy fix is that if a thread does not go back to topic after 4 posts, the unecessary (posts only containing off-topic spam) is deleted by the mods or admins, just an idea.

An age restriction may be a good idea too, but it may be a fatal blow aswell. Some members are still only 10. :)

[Chuck]

If I may offer my opinion on the "kids issue": I think you shouldn't allow kids to sign up untill they are a certain age (say, 13). And if they do, point them at the rules at give them a (temporarily) ban. I know it isn't fair for most kids, but most forums actually use this technique.

Just my 2 cents...

Thats a bit unfair, IMO. I joined when I was 12 (and I still am) and I'm still here. I am probably considered a kid by most of you, but I try not to lower myself to Dark1 (who would repeatedly use "im only 11" as an excuse), by spamming. Proving that not all (but most) kids will spam. Then again, by saying that most kids will spam isn't really proving my case.

-l2k-

[snefroe]

well EB is a community of people. they're coming and going when they choose to. lots of members of a year ago are gone, others have taken their place... sure that leads to bumbs along the way , no drama...

From what I've picked up EB is being transformed also to accomodate the new and the old better than ever before, so i wouldn't really "go on red alert" just yet.

however, it would be nice if we could stop posting on vcvc, dark 1, and other banned members... they're no longer relevant ...

[Vader]

As far as Dark1 goes i believe that he was far older than 11, to me he was just someone out to make trouble and wind people up the best he could.

[The Hordesman]

Sorry for the short pace between posts, but I kind of needed to write this story since its kind of important for the friendliness of this community to see a horrific example of how bad things can go, based on a true story from a forum I was a member on:

There was once two forum elders, both very respected members, however, one of them was a modder, and in this game community, he was also the most respected modder around, being the author of a very popular mod, and many looked up to him.

The other one was a gamer, but loved and respected for his constant help of the newbies.

But one day in forumland, the modder thought he would cause a little heat for some reason, and began spreading political propaganda. It was not allowed to go off-topic which he did in his own mod-progress thread, but since he was so respected noone could do anything.

The other member, the gamer, tried to stop him by saying he should go back to topic, but also, unfortunatly, he spouted out a political counter-argument.

And so the war raged one pages after pages, politics turning into personal taunts (the modder started it), until the site admin jumped in, trying to stop them, but could do nothing. The war raged on, and it came to that point that someone must be banned.

The modder, having a longer background on the site, and practically a fanclub, was spared. The other one was banned.

Later on, the "fans" of the modders began using the poor gamer as an example of how one should not act, and sadly, his memory was trampled into the mud.

The End.

In a situation like this, what should the admins and mods do here? Ban the loved member (think the modder as a great Lego builder) or the one that is not a mod or admin but tries to stop him, but does a mistake on the way which turns into more off-topicness?

[xwingyoda]

Guys, I do appreciate your concerns about our site friendlyness, crazyness, offtopicness (and what have you !!!). This shows you like EB and we, the admins who work hard (yes we do :P ) tks you for that !!! EB's spirit is the only reason why I joined !!!!

I want that EB spirit to continue !!!! Like Jipay pointed out, a lot of young newbies padawans do not get the "EB sense of humour", hence creating some useless and boring discussions...

Don't worry about that, enjoy the present and no need to refer all the times to banned members !!!!! We are all here to enjoy some friendly time together and share a common point of interest !!!!!

Banning a member is not that fun, trust me on this, but if we do it, its for EB's own interest !!!! Let the past be the past and lets make together a fantastic future !!!!! Yeay :oD

*yoda*

[LegoLover]

Now i see that many people are worried about the banning thats been going on, well it should be noted that in the last 6 months we have only banned 3 members.

actually u banned 4 remember how DArk1 made that second account "Jango Fett" or something like that.

Edit: On a side note the whole 13 and under thing kind of (okay entirely) loses the point of this being a KAFOL Community

[gylman]

This kind of stuff was all inevitable as EB became a world class site. People join who we wish would rather not be here - it's very different from that group of 100 or so people who knew each other well a year ago.

I've been online since before the internet. Does anyone here remember bulletin boards (PCboard, TBBS)? They were the locus for this type of community in the 1980's. This kind of stuff always happens - then and now. A community grows, then human nature being what it is people form factions, get "attitude", start to flame or mock (not MOC), and the community fractures.

Why do you think the really big boards like FBTB and BZPower have become so strict? They didn't start out that way, but they have to enforce some sort of order when there are so many members. But, it's not a much fun for the members, to be sure.

An endless supply of annoying posts will wear out even the most patient Admins and Mods, and the threshold for banning becomes lower and lower, or at least it becomes easier and easier to ban, lock topics, etc.

I make a conscious effort to ignore really stupid posts. I think that works best. Responding to a stupid post with a comment or insult actually encourages the poster to do more. Ignore them a few times, and they will leave, or stop. Still, I thought the admins were very reasonable on Dark1. If you display the same patience with the next guys you ban (inevitably) there will be no problem.

One choice is to be like that site the Jinzo was on, I forget which it was, which was very exclusive, and you had to show some MOCs to be deemed worthy. That struck me as extreme, but it is an option. We keep all the current members and only allow new people who fulfil some sort of test.

I don't favour this, though. Lego is for fun, not for excluding or browbeating. Let things stand as they are, and let's deal with the problems as they come. So far I don't sense any tension among the important members of EB, those who contribute and are on regular, and and there have been a number of people joining in the last 3 months (to pick an arbitrary period) who are real assets to the site. We wouldn't want to lose gaining those kinds of members.

Go EB!

EDIT: One other thing. I think that there should be no discussion of banning etc by non-admin members, and even the admins should confine it to PMs. It should not be posted as a message in a thread, with all sorts of back and forth. With Dark1 and LegoLover there was all this "help" from the non-admin members, well intended, but inappropriate in my opinion. Please NO more of that. If you have concerns about a member, PM them to a Mod or Admin. If the post is inappropriate, the admin will delete or edit it, and discuss it with the offending member by PM.

Do the mods and admins agree??

[Deinonychus]

Being a Mod isn't easy...

And personally I think the staff here has handled the "recent unpleasentness" rather well.

I think the problem with younger users is that they tend to treat message boards like chat rooms, and it really monkeys with the established flow of discourse that usually takes place on a board like this. Plus throw in the adolecent drive to crave attention and for people to "like" you, and it can annoy the rest of us rather quickly.

Any sort of standards and rules towards users can really bog a moderating job down. It's best to let the Mods go and do their jobs while using their best judgment instead of tying them up in a thick quagmire of beurocracy before they can act on a situation in the community. So far I've seen the EB team do a great job at keeping the peace here. I think if things keep up the way they have been, EB will remain a fun and interesting place to post and read

[Evil Willy]

Yes I believe it will...But I would also like to appolagise to all of you right now for having mainly begun the convo on LEGOKID possbly being DARK1...So I apolagise and yes I want the fun to continue!(And it has for that matter)

Everyone here is great, keep it up EB

[Jipay]

I would also like everyone to notice that I don't think we are close from becoming a nazi style modded community. Of course we do ban some members, but they deserve it as vader explained. We also try to find solutions for the old members and the new ones to stick together in a good atmosphere. We try to help this by talking to everyone. I don't think I've seen that many communities around where admins were always trying to discuss with the new members. The example given by The Hordesman wouldn't happen here IMO because the admins would immediately react before this goes too far

[KMOI]

To be quite honest, although I still see a noticable difference from only months before, I still feel like Eurobricks is the same groups that it was from the very beginning. To me, it was just a small, humble group of Lego fans whom shared their passion of the hobby with each other. If you look at it that way, nothing much has really changed. We still continue to have lots of randomness within each thread. We're still very open and friendly to others. It's like the only reason why I'm here. I'm not afraid to post here. I won't have responses like "This topic isnn't allowed, close it plzzz!!!" to topics that I start. I just love how it is now. I mean we're still very carefree, it's just we now have the monthly beating of some prick who shows up, like dark1. Other than it's all chills, man...

[ApophisV]

I mean we're still very carefree

That's because our staff is sooooo lazy!! *sing* :-D

[Vader]

Lego lover we have only banned 3 people as dark1 was just one man with two accounts.

[MattZitron]

Ahhhhhhhhh its not that bad.

We're still a friendly community, just some bad apples needed binning.

Don't worry kids I'm sure all will be ok soon enough!

[Vader]

Perfectly put matt, weve got over 600 members and only had problems with around 5 of them.

I would say thats not bad at all afterall i know some sites who are banning people every day without any reason other than to fuel their quest for power.

[Evil Willy]

I would say thats not bad at all afterall i know some sites who are banning people every day without any reason other than to fuel their quest for power.

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! POWER!!!!!! *king*

On fbtb ide get banned, but since we are a friendly friendly comunity..Just nod and smile :)

[Sarg_Kulo]

If this site had FBTBs mods then I would have been banned about 10 times ;)

Instead, whenever I get angry the guys here understand and help me to cool down.

I hate having anger management problems but the guys here are supportive.

*satis*

[Legoman]

If this site had FBTBs mods then I would have been banned about 10 times  ;)

well scince i am perfect in no way could i ever be banned LOOOOOOOL :D :D :D just kidding