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The Great Being revealed


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#26 vexorian

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:17 PM

Ok, I could speak for hours about this, but let me focus on the first thing I think about. This is from the original toa:

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small/Medium sets have had these large molds that eventually have no use. After many bulks of Bionicle bricks. I ended having to dispose these Toa torsos and also most of my bohrok torsos (I left like 1% of them "just in case" but I never used them either). Similar torsos for the metru. Some Vahqi. It is a disease. A large brick that is only good for a specific use, and is over decorated, including that gear-like thing that seems to have no purpose at all. These things use so many storage space and, to be honest, I have never seen a MoC that would tell me it is useful at all to keep these bricks.

It is a pervasive issue that infected Bionicle since the beginning. That most of the body from a HF set comes from actual assembled parts rather than this sort of mold is such a great improvement.

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Hard mode: it cannot use any Throwbot or Roborider pieces, you lose out on the original y-shaped ball sockets.
They are LEGO technic themes, so they were included in my initial assertion.

Edited by vexorian, 29 August 2012 - 11:20 PM.


#27 Crash Sanders

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:30 PM

Oh, I'm terribly sorry for your loss. Really.
But I think that you have no imagination to use those parts properly and also I pity you so much for considering Bionicle only as a pile of parts.

And btw...
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Did someone said something about no use of Mata torsos?..

I don't pretend to be a genius MoCer cause I am not, but this proves that people can find another use for Mata torsos.

The one does not simply troll me and others.

Edited by -N13OS-, 29 August 2012 - 11:32 PM.


#28 Omicron Squad Leader

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:46 AM

View PostCabooseBM, on 29 August 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Yeah, you know what? Leave your condescension at home if you intend to make an argument, you just end up sounding like a jerk and I won't be taking you seriously.


Yeah, no.

(For the record I do apologize for the last line of my first post in this topic, that was out of spite. Hero Factory is still better though.)

Hero Factory is better now, obviously. BIONICLE when it was running = on par with Hero Factory as it is running.

View Postvexorian, on 29 August 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

"Well-written" and "badly-written" are the "bloat" and "usability" of the entertainment industry. They have become expressions that have no meaning at all and are only used selectively to complain or praise without substance.
They are expressing that something is either well-written or badly-written. I don't see how a meaning can be any clearer than that. You can't just review, say, a movie and simply state, "It was badly-written. The end.", but the terms can be used to give your opinion on something such as a movie clearly and concisely, perhaps in a list. Simple concept, really.
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Click the picture above to read my review of LEGO Hero Factory set 2236 Scorpio!

#29 CabooseBM

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:55 AM

View PostZarkan, on 29 August 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

Kapura was pretty odd too, but keep in mind that the weirdest features of his character (the teleporting) isn't actually canon.
Wow, that's disappointing. Why isn't it canon?

#30 Zarkan

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:35 AM

View PostCabooseBM, on 30 August 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Wow, that's disappointing. Why isn't it canon?

Technically (if I'm reading BS01 correctly), it still is canon that Kapura gets to places quickly by moving slowly, but not that he actually teleports like in the MNOG. It's one of those early details that was modified or done away with entirely once a more solid canon was formed. Other examples of this include the Onu Koro "Taxi' crabs, the depiction of the Golden Kanohi in the MNOG, and Maku and Hewkii's romance.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#31 CabooseBM

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:12 AM

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Technically (if I'm reading BS01 correctly), it still is canon that Kapura gets to places quickly by moving slowly, but not that he actually teleports like in the MNOG. It's one of those early details that was modified or done away with entirely once a more solid canon was formed. Other examples of this include the Onu Koro "Taxi' crabs, the depiction of the Golden Kanohi in the MNOG, and Maku and Hewkii's romance.
I'm not one to be all Geewun-ish about things, but those are a bunch of silly things to de-canonize.

Edited by CabooseBM, 30 August 2012 - 03:18 AM.


#32 vexorian

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:55 AM

View Post-N13OS-, on 29 August 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Oh, I'm terribly sorry for your loss. Really.
But I think that you have no imagination to use those parts properly and also I pity you so much for considering Bionicle only as a pile of parts.

And btw...
Posted Image

Did someone said something about no use of Mata torsos?..

I don't pretend to be a genius MoCer cause I am not, but this proves that people can find another use for Mata torsos.

The one does not simply troll me and others.
Except it does not look good. It looks forced.

A good brick is one that is difficult not to use. It is not a brick you put effort into putting in a moc just so you can prove it is usable. It is not a brick that you have to be forced to include into a moc just so people don't say you have no imagination. That kind of ruins the whole game. You know, if the main purpose of a brick is to show that you have "imagination", then the brick has no purpose at all. Meanwhile, there are 5 HF additions that would look much better in there.

I have a  Pohatu MoC attempt that uses them as legs too. It is awful.

And those awful large bricks are just the beginning of the mountain of fail that is Bionicle build system.

Edited by vexorian, 30 August 2012 - 04:12 AM.


#33 Dorek

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:14 AM

They're not de-canonized, or retconned, or anything of the like... they were just sort of rendered moot by future story developments. (and for the record, the teleporting thing is canon, it's just hard to describe it as such because they aren't allowed any powers).

Anyhow... I suppose I should have mentioned this at some point, sorry =P. Yeah, we contacted Greg. And yes, this particular plot point isn't super helpful, but it was the thing that stuck out to me, since it was deliberately started and then left unresolved. If we get any more information, we'll let people know, but really... any info without context isn't going to be useful, so this is better than nothing.


#34 Crash Sanders

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:28 AM

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And those awful large bricks are just the beginning of the mountain of fail that is Bionicle build system.
Lol ok. Nice try, but you haven't convinced me. ;)

#35 the last chronicler

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:40 AM

Frankly the HF building is more universal, and probably better, I just always found it boring in comparison to Bionicle because of it's lack of unique parts, which for me seems to prevent out- of-the box thinking.  This may be more LEGO like, but linear building systems where you place parts end on end works with LEGO because buildings are built upward, where as the most natural form of "stacking" HF parts ends up creating a really long snake.

Bionicle didn't have a universal building block, but it did have a universal construction system based on Techic, so it wasn't kid friendly but it was a smoother step up for the user if they chose to build larger sets or MOCs.

The real reason I still call Bionicle a better series is it's underlying values, it actually takled some deeper subjects like communism ( 2004)  capitalism and enviromentalism (2009), and less directly political subjects like identity (2001-2003, 2008) and took the time to define a hero as someone seperate from a killer. 2005 on film and in story was classic Film-Noir with Roodaka as the femme-fatale leading a suicidal dictatorship, and 2006 and 2007 had the self-sacrificing hero, matoran slavery, and "the Toa of Anarchy".  Bionicle had a little awesome in every year.

I didn't mean to open pandora's box here and createi chaos in the whole HF vs. Bionicle debate, and for that I am sorry. I just want people to understand my perspective and the method behind the madness, instead of just using immature angry fanboyish backlash.

#36 Crash Sanders

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:02 AM

Um... Political implication in Bionicle? Lol what?
The only two better things that kept me with Bionicle all ten years are characters and storyline. I wasn't paying attention on building styles since I was making MOCs by myself.
And now I lost my interest in Bionicle storyline because I ended it by my own fan fiction, and I am pretty satisfied by this end. Also me and my girlfriend are playing our own forum RPG about alternative Bionicle storyline that grew from another of my fictions.
I am watching over HF's storyline, but I am not buying any sets (though I want Core Hunter and Evo 4.0 so badly) since 2.0 series.
And still it's pretty nice to discover some little facts like Velika's real personality.

#37 Darth Vader

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:21 AM

View Postvexorian, on 29 August 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

small/Medium sets have had these large molds that eventually have no use. After many bulks of Bionicle bricks. I ended having to dispose these Toa torsos and also most of my bohrok torsos (I left like 1% of them "just in case" but I never used them either). Similar torsos for the metru. Some Vahqi. It is a disease. A large brick that is only good for a specific use, and is over decorated, including that gear-like thing that seems to have no purpose at all. These things use so many storage space and, to be honest, I have never seen a MoC that would tell me it is useful at all to keep these bricks.

It is a pervasive issue that infected Bionicle since the beginning. That most of the body from a HF set comes from actual assembled parts rather than this sort of mold is such a great improvement.

They are LEGO technic themes, so they were included in my initial assertion.
I wish you'd sent me those torsos. I honestly believe they are the single most useful piece from the entire first wave of BIONICLE, especially when building on a large scale. I'm struggling to find enough of them to finish my current several-feet large MOC.

#38 the last chronicler

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:22 AM

View Post-N13OS-, on 30 August 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

Um... Political implication in Bionicle? Lol what?
The only two better things that kept me with Bionicle all ten years are characters and storyline. I wasn't paying attention on building styles since I was making MOCs by myself.
And now I lost my interest in Bionicle storyline because I ended it by my own fan fiction, and I am pretty satisfied by this end. Also me and my girlfriend are playing our own forum RPG about alternative Bionicle storyline that grew from another of my fictions.
I am watching over HF's storyline, but I am not buying any sets (though I want Core Hunter and Evo 4.0 so badly) since 2.0 series.
And still it's pretty nice to discover some little facts like Velika's real personality.

I'd like to hear your ending, though I imagine it's dependent on other factors besides the official storyline.

Also, the politics are pretty blunt in Bionicle, the matoran universe is socialist with a deity, and 2004 spends time showing how these beliefs can manipulated into "1984"-esque evil, through Makuta disguised as Turaga Dume and the Vahki police force (see this Soviet style Vahki propaganda from that year: Nuurakh- The feeling of working for the greater good is compensation enough, Rorzakh- No free thought and Bordakh- Trust those in power). That's one of the reasons I've grown to love 04, it takes the dedication that the Toa and Matoran had in the first three years and twists it against them. It explains why the Turaga kept the past hidden, their inability to see the political corruption in 2004 led to the full dictatorship that destroyed the city in 05 and turned Vakama against his people. Even though Greg thought him being evil was illogical, in the context of the overarching story it makes sense, Vakama believed Roodaka because everything he had known had been turned onto itself and destroyed. The Makuta, trusted followers of Mata Nui, revolted, and the matoran were shown to be ignorant. Only Matau's words reminded him that he was there to protect the people, not control them.

Edited by the last chronicler, 30 August 2012 - 06:31 AM.


#39 CabooseBM

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:23 AM

View Post-N13OS-, on 30 August 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

Um... Political implication in Bionicle? Lol what?
The whole "communist police state" thing was pretty apparent in 2004 I believe, but that was merely a tool to set the tone of the Vahki enforcers and the story that year in general.

#40 Crash Sanders

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:27 AM

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I'd like to hear your ending, though I imagine it's dependent on other factors besides the official storyline.
It's written on Russian and I am very bad translator. The only thing I want to mention: this ending is apocalyptic and full of desperate. =)

#41 the last chronicler

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:42 AM

View Post-N13OS-, on 30 August 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

It's written on Russian and I am very bad translator. The only thing I want to mention: this ending is apocalyptic and full of desperate. =)

The last year was rushed, and so when I think of the elements of the story that encompass it I tend to lean on the dramatic elements that weren't covered in detail, such as the affect of the battle of the giant robots on the people, and so in some manner I do imagine a fan version that is darker and more realistic, but I think the key elements of the finale were appropriate for the series. Love the Mata Nui and Makuta battle, sure the Golden armor stuff seemed cheap, but at least it brought back the classic "collection" element of Bionicle, which was a good way to close the series.

I think if Greg and the story team was given more time the minor problems the filled the ending could be expanded on, and story points could have been given a better explanation.

So I guess my question is does your story sit in the same universe or is it a complete rewrite? I am intrigued...

Edited by the last chronicler, 30 August 2012 - 06:48 AM.


#42 Jetrax99

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:53 AM

ALRIGHT ALREADY!!!! Let's just keep this thread on topic shall we?

Personally, I think Velika was a horrible choice as the secretive Great Being.  I would've preferred someone more along the lines of The Shadowed One, you know, somebody who actually hates the Toa, not some bloody matoran, that's just silly.
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#43 LewiMOC

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

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Edited by LewiMOC, 30 August 2012 - 02:51 PM.

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#44 Kadabra

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:05 PM

Did somebody say large scale HF MOC with no BIONICLE or Technic parts?

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#45 Crash Sanders

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:13 PM

@ Kdabra, excuse me, but you have there too much holes.

#46 lemmyfan396

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostKadabra, on 30 August 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

This actually is a cool MOC!
But,maybe,you could add more armour on as many places as possible.
Signed by me

#47 Dorek

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:19 PM

View PostJetrax99, on 30 August 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

ALRIGHT ALREADY!!!! Let's just keep this thread on topic shall we?

Personally, I think Velika was a horrible choice as the secretive Great Being.  I would've preferred someone more along the lines of The Shadowed One, you know, somebody who actually hates the Toa, not some bloody matoran, that's just silly.
Well, for one, we haven't proven that the GB actually hates Toa (he might be the murderer in question, but that could be for other reasons entirely). The express reason for being a Matoran was so the GB could be innocuous and observe the flow of the universe uninterrupted, and what better way to do that than do be as small as possible and not have anything required of you.

View PostLewiMOC, on 30 August 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

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inorite? Were people literally waiting for an excuse to reignite the BIONICLE v HF debate? Gotta love that internet.

#48 LuxorV

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:51 PM

View PostLewiMOC, on 30 August 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

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#49 Jouster

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:05 PM

Bla bla bla bla HF suck bla bla BIONICLE is better bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

Ugh, this? Again? Didn't this end in 2010?
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#50 Darth Vader

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:27 PM

Quote

Ugh, this? Again? Didn't this end in 2010?
Just like Bionicle.




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