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#15426 Flipz

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:37 AM

View PostZepher, on 19 November 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Thank you, those were a lot of the buildings I was currently using for inspiration!  I will send you a few images later tonight to see if you approve of the general look I've been developing!

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Oh, and I forgot to mention: I really loved the look of the Hovels, too.  (Quest 44 was just awesome in general. :wink: )

View PostScorpiox, on 18 November 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

So, do you suggest that I change Haldor's advanced class? Oh Flipz, great writer of Walls of Text, could you provide guidence for me now? :tongue:

OK, I've been thinking on it, and here's what I've found:
*Barbarian ACs in general have Shield abilities that are of VERY limited usefulness.  These range from mild chance of failure (both Ravage and Spellblade are useful enough unless there's a problem with elements) to "only works once per battle" (War Cry and, to an extent, Marking the Favored, though the latter is MUCH more accommodating since a hit is included with it) to downright dangerous (Blood Ritual, I'm looking at you).
*Of the Shield rolls of Cleric ACs, Blood Ritual is absolutely the least helpful; Roots of Life and Magical Vortex heal the whole party, Magical Vortex and Hex cause harm to the enemy, and Roots of Life and Guardian Angel help protect the party from negative effects (and Guardian Angel protects the party from regular damage, too).  Blood Ritual harms ONE enemy for a small amount of damage, and heals exactly ONE member of the party, plus it has limitations that render it extremely dangerous in extremely common situations (poison and undead).  By far the worst Shield.
*Shamans don't have anything unique going for them ASIDE from the Shield roll: Meditate is a common Miss roll among Cleric classes and isn't overly useful anyway (as opposed to, say, Counter or Aim or Steal), Extra Critical Hit is common to pretty much all of the Barbarian ACs (as is Natural Respite), and none of the other rolls are anything special.
*The entire point of a Barbarian is to hit hard.  Shamans don't; even taking Extra Critical Hit into account, Sages hit harder and are generally more functional than Shamans thanks to elemental advantages and a better Shield.  At the same time, they fail as a healing class thanks to the Blood Ritual issue.
*Natural Respite is rather unhelpful to a Shaman, since it doesn't replenish Ether and, if the Shaman is following a more Clerical strategy, they shouldn't be taking too much damage anyway.  (Yes, Meditate should theoretically help this, but realistically it doesn't ever seem to kick in when it should and is thematically inappropriate to the hard-hitting Barbarian nature of a Shaman anyway.)

My suggestions for Shaman:
*Allow Natural Respite to restore Ether, and retool Meditate into some sort of offensive ability.  (Pros: the class will feel MUCH more fitting for a Barbarian, the benefeits MIGHT outweigh the cons of Blood Ritual as-is; Cons: this might OP Battle Mage, Blood Ritual would still be a major turn-off for potential Shamans)
*Re-tool Blood Ritual to have some sort of area-of-effect on enemies.  (Pros: again, more Barbarian-like, damage output mostly outweighs the risk to party; Cons: while this balances the poison disadvantage, it makes the issue with undead worse, in a big way)
*Simply make Blood Ritual completely ineffective on undead. (Pros: least amount of change to the class as-is, preserving the flavor while at the same time making the class viable for players again.  Cons: Blood Ritual is still the worst of the Cleric AC Shield rolls, Meditate is still somewhat contrary to the idea of a Barbarian.)
*Re-tool Blood Ritual in some other way (my mind keeps coming up with the idea of TRANSFERRING all effects, but I can't figure out why, perhaps I'm too tired right now :tongue: )
*some combination of the above.

My advice to Haldor:
Weigh the benefeits of the roleplaying of Shaman against the disadvantages of the class mechanics.  Sage is the next-best fit for Haldor, both role-playing wise and mechanically (and it somewhat fits the outfit you showed me), but Shaman Haldor will always have a special place in my heart. :wink:

View PostEtzel, on 19 November 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

No, it says:


Question is weather or not a Paladin's Guardian Angel protects against an ally trying to perform a Blood ritual which will actually harm a party member.

Yes, but it's still transferring health.  Health damages undead.  Or at least, that's how I see it.  (And if Blood Ritual really is intended to increase the health of the undead enemy, why on earth did Sandy do that?  That would make the whole "undead clause" completely useless except to screw over the party... :look: )

In any case, I'd think that Guardian Angel would indeed protect from Blood Ritual damage. :wink:

EDIT: To clarify, the "poison clause" is a limitation--it fits thematically, and I like the idea of some drawback to the class, but only if there's enough advantages to warrant it.  Right now, Shaman doesn't have enough advantages, and Blood Ritual has too many drawbacks.  Also, added another suggestion to ways that Shaman can be tweaked. :wink:

Edited by Flipz, 19 November 2012 - 08:43 AM.

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#15427 Etzel

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:48 AM

View PostCallMePie, on 19 November 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

If it's a form of damage, then Guardian Angel should protect from it, I think.
Yeah, but is it a form of damage? As Flipz said, it is more like a healing (that in this case happens to drain health).
Ah well, I guess I go with the nice alternative this round.

View PostFlipz, on 19 November 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Yes, but it's still transferring health.  Health damages undead.  Or at least, that's how I see it.  (And if Blood Ritual really is intended to increase the health of the undead enemy, why on earth did Sandy do that?  That would make the whole "undead clause" completely useless except to screw over the party... :look: )

In any case, I'd think that Guardian Angel would indeed protect from Blood Ritual damage. :wink:
No, healing damages undead, not health. They do have health themselves :wacko: And the effect is reversed so adding the heroes health to the enemy was how I understood it to be. And I do believe the whole undead clause is intended to screw over the party :devil:

#15428 Quarryman

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

View PostSandy, on 18 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

Not only that, I built friggin' 108 enemies for them to face over the course of this weekend. :tongue:

Here's a small sneak peek:
Looks very good! :thumbup:
Now, can we get them as 108 battles? Pretty please with sugar on top? :grin:
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#15429 Peppermint_M

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:22 AM

View PostQuarryman, on 19 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Looks very good! :thumbup:
Now, can we get them as 108 battles? Pretty please with sugar on top? :grin:

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#15430 Sandy

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

Okay, so Shaman's Blood Ritual has proven to be problematic and weak. I will have to change it then. Thank you Flipz for your suggestions on the matter, they're really helpful. Now give me some time to think about it...

View PostQuarryman, on 19 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Now, can we get them as 108 battles? Pretty please with sugar on top? :grin:

Fat chance! :tongue: But I hope you will like what I have in store for you regarding the battles...

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#15431 Flipz

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:10 PM

Psst, Xander took damage from the Adder, not Dyric.  You have it right in the stats, but not in the battle description. :wink:

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#15432 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:28 PM

So question of the slightly random time period. What are the advantages and disadvantages you see for the advanced classes. I'd be interested in knowing how they are perceived or evaluated (should you have already chosen one) and why exactly you chose the class you did.

Since I've gotten to know the Hunter class fairly well I'll give my take on it.

The Hunter's strength lies in prolonged battles, the more enemies of a single type the better. Short and quick battles with enemies of a variety of types can really throw off a Hunter's stride. I have noticed that while a Hunter gets a 3x multiplier, the rest of his attacks generally do average to less than average damage when he's attacking an unfavored enemy, (Shield, Hit, Aim). The Hunter's other three rolls are composed of taking hits (Special Damage, Damage) and one better than average strike (Critical hit). Hunter's have a moderate health bonus and their real plus comes from staying in the back row, as SP is generally limited.

The Hunter's weakness is undeniably a variety of enemies from battle to battle, without that favoring and apart from the moderate HP bonus, they are actually less effective than normal Rangers.

For me, I chose Hunter as it fit Skrall's RPing the best, plus the ability to do a ton of damage without having to play elemental rock-paper-scissors was slightly appealing. :grin:

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#15433 CorneliusMurdock

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

I had to choose Paladin because Cronk would have bashed me otherwise.  All his idea.

Paladins are very much a support class and coming from knight gains the ability to heal and adding protection from special effects to the shield.  I don't really think I've lost anything.

That being said, I am sometimes disappointed in the lack of offense for paladins.  It's great to be able to protect the party but sometimes I really do want to be the one to take down the enemy.  Or at least do something other than stand there with my shield in front of me.  Or meditate repeatedly. :laugh:   I've thought about changing class a few times to something with more of a punch but I don't think it would make sense for Cronk to be anything but a Paladin right now.

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#15434 Zepher

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:29 PM

I'd like to add my voice to Corny's.  Knights are strangely generally a support class, which is weird because they seem like heavy-hitters at first.  Paladins hit enemies 1/3 of the time.  They also don't have anything interesting.  You don't stun enemies, you don't confuse them, they don't power up through-out a quest... they're really flat... Paladin is the only class I can see Boomingham play as (especially now that Barty is around).

The same is essentially true for the other Knight ACs.  Berserker can pack a punch, but likewise only hits 1/2 of the time, and then after they hit an enemy they can't really strategize.  Black Knights are slightly more interesting... but getting a good hit costs too much... AND they don't make money, which is the huge appeal of Rogue hybrid classes.  We haven't seen too many Mystic Knights... they sort of intrigue me.  Those last two aren't Boomingham at all though, so that won't be happening for a while.

Warden is awesome.  Also fairly bland, nothing exciting, but super powerful.  Backrow, with potential to heal yourself, and still hitting 1/2 of the time, I'm deffers switching to it in the future when it makes sense.

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#15435 TheBoyWonder

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:32 PM

Im going Raider then (hopefully) Beast Warrior wih Lycan, for Lupus Witch then Necromancer.
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#15436 Zepher

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

I am interested to hear from other knights/paladins.  For all my critiques, it is the most played AC, so people must find something appealing in it.  Is it just for RP reasons?

EDIT:  That's what I'm talking about, Rumble!  A home-picked team from your previous two quests!  Can't wait to see what you've got for us!

Edited by Zepher, 19 November 2012 - 05:39 PM.

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#15437 Etzel

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:40 PM

I haven't played with Maurice as a Paladin yet so I can't really judge the class. But I chose it purely because of RP reasons. :grin:

#15438 TheBoyWonder

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:44 PM

When I had Leo, a knight, I looked at Paladin Warden and Mystic Knight. Apart from Paladin, their shields are all disappointing. They all have little attacking prowess.
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#15439 Jedi master Brick

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

I chose evoker purley for the abilty to summon things. I was thinking about warden and assassain but I prefer to deal damage and I ruled out assassain because of roleplaying reasons.
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#15440 Dannylonglegs

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:58 PM

I chose the Druid path while developing my character and didn't even know what the Druid was at the time. I chose Cleric because of the two classes that made a Druid, Cleric had the least members. Before Heroica, despite my years of playing DnD, I had never played the party healer (generally speaking, I find Clerics boring), so I was a little disappointed when I saw that the Druid was primarily another Healer. I have since embraced it, and I now feel like Druid is one of the best classes out there! It's a great class to follow Cleric, because it's that + so much more! I love its ability to use ranged weapons, which is a plus for Clerics/Healers (because it's their prerogative to not get KOed.) and the Nurture ability has got to be the best flavor of Healing around in that it works as a remedy as well. Roots of Life is a great Shield too! I get to fix everyone in the party of almost any ill and death on a roll of 6! Also, as an Ether using class, we can use scrolls, which rocks! That said, It is strictly a Healing class. It is not meant as a Defensive or Offensive powerhouse. I actually like Druid so much, I likely won't take another class until level 50.

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#15441 Zepher

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

Druid is hand-downs one of the best classes.  I genuinely believe that every party should have one.  They can deal with any bad situation.  They are by far the most logical leap for healers.

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#15442 Rumble Strike

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:19 PM

View PostZepher, on 19 November 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

That's what I'm talking about, Rumble!  A home-picked team from your previous two quests!  Can't wait to see what you've got for us!

I wanted a nice mix of characters from my previous two Quests, which I got.  Plus Maurice, which is already working out great RP wise.

Sorry to the guys I didn't pick, especially the lowish level ones.  I normally would have picked you as the last two Quests I have run were newbie ones.  I needed a few returning characters for this one.
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#15443 Brickdoctor

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

View PostZepher, on 19 November 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Warden is awesome.  Also fairly bland, nothing exciting, but super powerful.  Backrow, with potential to heal yourself, and still hitting 1/2 of the time, I'm deffers switching to it in the future when it makes sense.
As Flare proved, though, you have to invest in a good shield if you're going to play Warden, otherwise Aura will kill you. (and it almost killed me, even with 15 Defense)

View PostCallMePie, on 19 November 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

De'kra's cloak shimmers slightly as he peers beyond the fourth wall...
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#15444 Pyrovisionary

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

/Hasn't got an advanced class yet :P

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#15445 Scorpiox

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

View PostSandy, on 19 November 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Okay, so Shaman's Blood Ritual has proven to be problematic and weak. I will have to change it then. Thank you Flipz for your suggestions on the matter, they're really helpful. Now give me some time to think about it...

May I suggest that you also tweak the Miss roll slightly, perhaps to something more fitting for the class?

View PostPsyKater, on 19 November 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Amma asks the orcish barmaid and whispers: "Do you have something with magic mushrooms? I feel that I need some uppers..."

Woah, that's a bit strong isn't it?

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#15446 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:01 PM

View PostSkyrimguy, on 19 November 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

/Hasn't got an advanced class yet :P
I'm open to what people perceive are the strengths and weaknesses of the advanced classes as well. :sweet:

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#15447 Brickdoctor

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

View PostWaterbrick Down, on 19 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

I'm open to what people perceive are the strengths and weaknesses of the advanced classes as well. :sweet:
Well, just for my class, the strength of the Warden is that he has the potential to be the ultimate tank. He has a Shield that prevent his allies from being damaged, he can heal himself, he can carry a shield, and he can fight from the Back Row. The Weakness is that in order to take advantage of all that requires a significant investment, and you're probably also going to need a few Health-restoring Potions also.

#15448 Pyrovisionary

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:24 PM

If i was anything... I'd be an assassin. I want something that lets me use ranged but at the same time brings gold in. Or raider :P

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#15449 CallMePie

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:25 PM

I think Paladins are so popular because they're really just a Knight with more health, healing abilities, and a slightly enhanced shield.

Atramor chose Witch for several reasons. The Shield, actually, isn't one of them. Hex isn't really powerful, but the other pros of the class outweigh that more than enough for me.  The thing that really pushed me over was the Witch's Talisman. At that point there was only one in the game, and nobody else seemed interested. After seeing how much destruction it could wreak with the Wyvern battle in Quest 14, I figured it was worth the leap. The high HP addition and the ability to heal made it a really self-sustaining class, that was a plus too. Special Mirror I thought would just be a fun little bonus, whereas with the stronger, more complex special skills coming up it's become one of my favorite features. :grin:

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Edited by CallMePie, 19 November 2012 - 07:26 PM.

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#15450 TheBoyWonder

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

Lycans RP pushes Raider, but I'm a Stat person so, it's Witch for me. Added to the fact the Earnings from the nostrums I've purchased should boost me to the tallisman. Combrys+Staff of The Frog Paladin +Witches Tallisman +Pugillists glove = Ownage :wub:
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