9v motors (should lego make them again?)

[9v system]

hi all im a big 9v collector and I have a lot of things like: control center, control lab, speed regulators, robotics invention system ect. but I don't want to go to the pf system because it is very bad in my opinion all I want to know is weather you think lego should make 9v motors again.

thx

9v system

[Saberwing40k]

Well, first off, the Power Functions system runs at 9 volts, and is objectively better than the old system in terms of power and functionality. For instance, even a regular M motor has nearly twice the torque of an old RIS motor. Also, more technical features are available, such as pulse width modulation, without which we could not have the servo motor. However, there are some things that the old system can do that the PF system cannot, like easily gang motors, and some parts from the old system do not have modern equivalents.

I don't think that Lego should make old 9 volt stuff again, because the motors from that system are objectively worse, and do not fit in with the current building style. Also, they have already invested quite a lot of money in the Power Functions system, so it would not make sense from a business standpoint. Whether or not they should reissue motors as part of old sets, however, is another discussion entirely.

I think Lego should continue to update and expand the Power Functions system, with both new parts, like a proportional switch, and updated parts, like a new micromoter, and maybe something similar to the control center. Also, a PF power supply that would plug into the wall would be very useful.

[XAxles]

I think Lego should continue to update and expand the Power Functions system, with both new parts, like a proportional switch, and updated parts, like a new micromotor, and maybe something similar to the control center. Also, a PF power supply that would plug into the wall would be very useful.

Oh, man, I want stuff like the ones I put in bold, though maybe a wireless system of the latter so it works anywhere, and is compatible to Bluetooth.

And I'd prefer another kind of micromotor along with a revamped version of the old one, with about the size of the 4W pull-back motor in the smaller Ferrari LEGO sets.

[bonox]

The control systems 8094/8485 is equivalent to the variable speed controller 8879 plus IR receiver. The old 9V stuff is also not mountable without studded construction which is not a technic property in the current lineup.

The functionality of the 9V stuff already exists in the new gear, but the new gear is lighter, cheaper and portable (battery powered as standalone or use the lipo pack with wall wart.

On top of that you can run the PF gear from old boxes and old motors from new PF supplies with the adapter cables or homebuilt solutions. Combined with modern technical progress like high torque speed control (pwm), what is it that you this is so bad about the new system that they should bring back the old gear? Especially if they brought back that crappy rubber insulation

Don't get me wrong, I love my 3 control centres and the code pilots, but they have their place in history. I use them because it still works with the new gear, looks cool (especially as the back of Boseman's V8) and reminds me of my childhood (because mum and dad couldn't afford it), but it's surely hard to make an objective case for bringing the stuff back!

Axles - the power supply already exists (ie buy the battery pack and wall wart or else just cut up a cable and craft your own) and the SBrick is probably the only RF wireless control we'll see. Not sure though how your "wireless system of the latter - [a PF power supply that would plug into the wall]" would work. Wireless power transmission beyond milliwatts has been out of reach pretty much forever. The stuff that does exist is rather dangerous and certainly not something you'd see in kids toys outside of china.

[jodawill]

I agree that they need to expand the PF system. In particular, we really need an alternative curve with a larger radius and a cross track. It would also be nice to have more control over the motor speed, like setting a maximum speed on the motor itself that the remote can't override.

[2x4Studios]

I think Lego should continue to update and expand the Power Functions system, with both new parts, like a proportional switch, and updated parts, like a new micromoter, and maybe something similar to the control center. Also, a PF power supply that would plug into the wall would be very useful.

I use the old 9v train dial with an old style brick wire to new style adaptor (http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemPic.asp?S=8886-1), but a full new system and control panel would be amazing! Edited November 21, 2014 by 2x4Studios

[miguev]

What I really want to see added to the PF family is a compact rechargeable battery and compact strong motor/s based on the technology we have today in e-bikes like my KTM e-cross P. And by strong I mean both a slow one like the XL motor and a really fast one to supersede the buggy motors... wouldn't that be awesome? :)

[aol000xw]

I have no hope for TLC on this however the SBricks people could design a battery box for standard LiIon 18650 cells Lego style. And then a powerful and fast 5292 replacement/upgrade to go with it.

[andythenorth]

Edit

Edited November 21, 2014 by Alasdair Ryan
Did not think.....

[aol000xw]

Harsh or rude answers are pointless too.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Alasdair Ryan

[XAxles]

The guy who replied to you first is right, you know.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Alasdair Ryan

[Heppeng]

+1

[andythenorth]

Eh, ok, I should wind my neck in. It wasn't intended to be as harsh as it looked. More just a guess at the facts. Lego are *not* going to reintroduce a line of long-dead components. And wtf do large-radius train tracks have to do with 9v, PF, or the technic forum?

Anyway, maybe a mod will bin my offending post before we get too far off track?

Edited November 21, 2014 by andythenorth

[Mikuri]

Buggy motors only please :P

[dr_spock]

Should and would are two different things. I have one 9V motor and am not really interested in another one. The current PF motors work just fine for my GBCs. I don't see LEGO going after small niche market at this time. Maybe somebody enterprising could license the design and produce some if the business case works for them.

[miguev]

I have no hope for TLC on this however the SBricks people could design a battery box for standard LiIon 18650 cells Lego style. And then a powerful and fast 5292 replacement/upgrade to go with it.

Absolutely, I too expect that someone else that TLG will do this, some day. I just can't wait for it!

[1974]

Now Andy, I saw your original message, but remember there can be no stupid questions, only stupid answers

But I'm sure you'll comeback with a sarcastic witty reply as usual

.....

Yes, PF is 9V too, but when we talk about "9V" is generally meant to be the old 80's/90's system of powering LEGO

I very much prefer that (old) system. Here's why :

Conducting plates : Something I use a lot, no proper PF part

Cables : Many different lengths, important to me, no choice with PF

Lights : Much better done in the old system with seperate bricks, some of them able to do flashing. Only a single poor choice with PF. Those LEDs look terrible anyway, compared to normal bulbs

Battery boxes : Many more colour variations and smaller sizes. PF makes it _real_ hard to do trains

Micromotors : Well .. nothing in PF. Those little torqueless workers are perfect for doing mundane task in Town/Space MOCs that would otherwise require a .. knob

So no PF for me

But all of that _could_ be done with PF with no problem Since TLG think this system is the future, we might hope for parts (as described above) in the following years ..

What PF is doing right is to make powerfull motors/servos + batteryboxes that's easily implemented in studless Technic. But there are many uses for electric LEGO besides that

Also, there's the whole remote thing, which I _really_ think TLG messed up by going IR instead of proper (2.4GHz) wireless

So, not a stupid thread, quite an interesting one, I think

Cheers,

Ole

[9v system]

wow thanks for the replys the reason I say this is because im not a big fan of the pf system and the 9v system is so much better in terms of motors and cables

[9v system]

Now Andy, I saw your original message, but remember there can be no stupid questions, only stupid answers

But I'm sure you'll comeback with a sarcastic witty reply as usual

.....

Yes, PF is 9V too, but when we talk about "9V" is generally meant to be the old 80's/90's system of powering LEGO

I very much prefer that (old) system. Here's why :

Conducting plates : Something I use a lot, no proper PF part

Cables : Many different lengths, important to me, no choice with PF

Lights : Much better done in the old system with seperate bricks, some of them able to do flashing. Only a single poor choice with PF. Those LEDs look terrible anyway, compared to normal bulbs

Battery boxes : Many more colour variations and smaller sizes. PF makes it _real_ hard to do trains

Micromotors : Well .. nothing in PF. Those little torqueless workers are perfect for doing mundane task in Town/Space MOCs that would otherwise require a .. knob

So no PF for me

But all of that _could_ be done with PF with no problem Since TLG think this system is the future, we might hope for parts (as described above) in the following years ..

What PF is doing right is to make powerfull motors/servos + batteryboxes that's easily implemented in studless Technic. But there are many uses for electric LEGO besides that

Also, there's the whole remote thing, which I _really_ think TLG messed up by going IR instead of proper (2.4GHz) wireless

So, not a stupid thread, quite an interesting one, I think

Cheers,

Ole

also I think that Lego should make replacements for the 9v system again for things like the micro motor, I had one but it died

[fred67]

I use the old 9v train dial with an old style brick wire to new style adaptor (http://www.bricklink...ic.asp?S=8886-1), but a full new system and control panel would be amazing!

Wow... I hadn't thought of that! Great idea. It's too bad they're so big, but at least you can keep fairly distant with longer PF extension cables.

Conducting plates : Something I use a lot, no proper PF part

Cables : Many different lengths, important to me, no choice with PF

Lights : Much better done in the old system with seperate bricks, some of them able to do flashing. Only a single poor choice with PF. Those LEDs look terrible anyway, compared to normal bulbs

Battery boxes : Many more colour variations and smaller sizes. PF makes it _real_ hard to do trains

Micromotors : Well .. nothing in PF. Those little torqueless workers are perfect for doing mundane task in Town/Space MOCs that would otherwise require a .. knob

So no PF for me

But all of that _could_ be done with PF with no problem Since TLG think this system is the future, we might hope for parts (as described above) in the following years ..

What PF is doing right is to make powerfull motors/servos + batteryboxes that's easily implemented in studless Technic. But there are many uses for electric LEGO besides that

Also, there's the whole remote thing, which I _really_ think TLG messed up by going IR instead of proper (2.4GHz) wireless

It's not a stupid thread, but wondering if it belongs in Technic or Trains, where you might get wildly differing opinions on it.

As far as cables go, depending on what you're doing, you can use the shorter one for PF to PF, so under some circumstances there's two choices, but I get what you mean. Both the lights and the battery boxes make it difficult for doing trains. You can hide the battery box, but then you still have all these cables going between cars that are REALLY obvious, plus the need for an IR Receiver sticking out somewhere.

Lights... I never really liked lights with the 9V motor (I'm referring specifically to trains). You run into that awkward problem where the faster the train goes, the brighter the lights. I'm much more a fan of LifeLites for lights like that, and of course PF doesn't suffer that problem. I'm not thrilled with any LEGO lighting, especially the new light bricks that generally can't just be turned on and left on.

I wish they'd add a micro PF range, where they do lights and such with watch battery sized power.

I also can't stand IR. A lot of people claim they never have a problem with it... I always have problems with my remotes getting out of sync with the receivers. RF would have been better; now that everything is going bluetooth, and the technology is quite cheap, they should do that - and make apps for smart phones and tablets instead of controllers, but of course then they'd lose remote sales. That's perhaps why they don't want to go that way.

[andythenorth]

Conducting plates : Something I use a lot, no proper PF part

Seriously what do you use them for? I can't think of any technic model where they would have been critical.

When I was a kid, the main use of plates was to see if you could get a shock by bridging the studs with your tongue. With a fresh 9V battery, it could be done. It's quite tricky to bridge the contacts though due to them being masked by the studs.

I also can't stand IR. A lot of people claim they never have a problem with it... I always have problems with my remotes getting out of sync with the receivers. RF would have been better; now that everything is going bluetooth, and the technology is quite cheap, they should do that - and make apps for smart phones and tablets instead of controllers, but of course then they'd lose remote sales. That's perhaps why they don't want to go that way.

A third party will solve that for AFOLs. Probably SBrick, if they can pull it off https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sbrick/sbrick-smart-way-to-control-all-your-lego-creation

If not SBrick, someone else.

I doubt that choice of IR is about sales of controllers. More likely cost of technology and compliance. When PF was being developed Bluetooth was not an established technology, and would have had high chip costs, and lots of extra design work around pairing etc. Bluetooth is now established, but that's easy to see now, not 10 years ago or so when PF was in development. So many electronics 'standards' die along the way, and TLG could have backed the wrong horse. Meanwhile IR hardware is dirt cheap, and the tech is ancient and entrenched. Compliance is trivial for IR because it's so established. IR is a common choice in toys for these reasons. All my kids remote toys are IR or simple 27/4MHz radio (which is by no means reliable in the cheap versions used in supermarket toys). Precisely zero are bluetooth.

TLG are incredibly conservative when they innovate, and my guess would be that they've also chosen not to take on the bluetooth + apps route to avoid stretching resources. Designing modular consumer electronics AND software to a standard where it can retail to kids worldwide is not easy. They already have a lot tied up in Mindstorms, and programmable PF blurs the lines. Even with a lot of money thrown at it, projects like that are hard, and the Technic team has to meanwhile turn out a new line every year, with ever more complex flagships.

[9v system]

This is why I like the older motors and lights and they last forever which is someting the pf motors don't

[Jeroen Ottens]

This is why I like the older motors and lights and they last forever which is someting the pf motors don't

I really don't have the same experience as you have. I have a lot of old 9V motors (both the big blocky grey ones and the micromotors), I have thrown at least 10 big ones in the bin because the axle was completely stuck. I don't even know how many micromotors I had to throw away for the same reason. So far I never had a failure with a PF motor.

What is even better with the PF system is that this offers a wide range of speed-torque combinations that were never possible with the 9V system (M/L/XL/servo motor). The only way to achieve that was through the use of notoriously energy-wasting gear-reductions using lego gears.

As for the cables, I also have a lot of these, and yes they combine very easily in brick-built constructions, but in the studless technic it really doesn't work easy.

The lights are nice, but again mainly in the brick-built constructions, in studless the new PF lights are much better.

The plates I sometimes miss as well. I now have to stack all those connectors into one big pile, whereas with a plate you can spread sideways if needed.

Summarizing my opinion: in brickbuilt model-team like constructions the old 9V system has some advantages in the lighting department, but other than that I realy do hope that we will never get the old system back.

[nerdsforprez]

Buggy MOtors! This all occurred before my re-introduction to LEGO and so i missed out on owning them. I know I can still buy them but they are crazy expensive.

[Lego Dino 500]

I would love it if they expanded their assortment of motors and sets. I'd love to see new stronger, faster and rugged components, like the 9V buggy motors in 8366 Supersonic RC. We need more stuff that pushes the limit of the Lego Technic system. I was unbelievably disappointed at how slow and weak my 8043 excavator was, and I'm tired of that.