WIP MOC: modular gothic cathedral

[Martin_B]

Hey, all. It's been a while. I moved during the summer and my Lego collection sat in a cupboard for a while, so I only just got the bug again. After a Technic scale futuristic jet plane last year, I decided on a more 'traditional' architecture-related project this time around.

It's early days but I'm doing a minifig scale medieval cathedral in the European gothic style. My main source of inspiration is the Kolner Dom in Cologne but for obvious reasons I'm having to make a few compromises - even at minifig scale, it would be physically too large to fit in my living room! I hit on the idea of doing it in a 'modular' fashion: minifig scale, with more detail than the commercially-produced Castle-era Lego sets but still smaller and made in sections. I reckon it'll be around a third of the size of, say, Notre Dame or Cologne from a minifig's point of view.

Photos so far are on Google Plus...I'll add them to Flickr or something when each phase is completed. So far I've worked out the general floor plan, the cross-section shape of the nave and side aisles and the general shape of the buttresses outside. Apologies if any of the technical terms go over you head - I've had to give myself a crash course in architecture and engineering!

The question I have right now is about the side-aisles (Re: the cross-section pic below). Church buildings of that era have a big span across the tall central area, but in the larger ones the lower side aisles are each divided into pairs of arches like this. I'm currently working to a simpler design with the side aisles made up of just one arch each, so I'm torn between a more conventional 'three arches' layout that's easier to build, or a more complicated arrangement of five, as in Cologne or Notre Dame. It's something I need to decide before going any further.

Thoughts? Advice? Is this thread even in the right forum?? Anyhow, it's good to be back and feeling inspired to build something again!

[dooberfloober]

nice design for the latin cross floor plan

[mpoh98]

Nice, I like the angles so far! I take it the multi color part will just be structure on the inside?

[Bregir]

Makes me want to pick up "Pillars of the Earth" again. (And build as a read along... )

I am so looking forward to following this project - But my, it is going to be humongous!

/Bregir out

[LegoPanda]

nice, is it the inside that is rainbow or is that just parts you gonna replace later

[Martin_B]

Thanks all for the kind words so far. Yeah, the 'rainbow' structure is just a planning stage thing...I'll be using the 'right' colours for the final version. The majority of it will be built in light grey with some smatterings of dark grey to give an impression of age and exposure to the elements. The columns and arches on the inside though are made of tan bricks, to give the interior a feeling of warmth and light. Although we think of gothic architecture as being monolithic, dark and gloomy, at the time they were seen as quite light and airy in comparison with the thick walls and small windows of earlier buildings. I've not looked as far ahead as windows, but I think a lot of transparent 1x1 bricks and tiles will be involved. A lot.

I tried making the side aisles out of two arches but it didn't look quite right so it's back to one on each side. I can also increase the height of the building without altering the angles of the arches - I can add to the columns and windows easily if I want to. It's a big job indeed, but hopefully doing it in stages (apse and choir, the crossing, the nave and finally the western facade with its towers) should stop me feeling overwhelmed!

[Hinckley]

My only suggestion is that you look up a bit about gothic churches. Right now, it looks like you plan to go from the facade to the apse. Gothic churches have a nave and transept that form a cross. There are normally Westwerck towers and rose and oculus windows and false levels with sculpture programs. Right now your center roof is taller than the sides. For it to be gothic, those outside towers need to be there. The big concept of gothic churches was letting as much light in as possible so they were really tall and severely buttressed to support the stone roofs, yet keep the walls mostly stained glass. Will you have an ambulatory around the apse? Will you incorporate a reliquary? Flying buttresses?

May I ask why you chose the half arch windows? Lancet window with the pointed arch are one of the most identifiable aspects of gothic architecture. It was the big innovation for distributing weight across distances. The compound piers at the portal are great, but keep in mind that those often also contained a sculpture program. The portals are usually recessed and become increasingly so as the era continues. The Romanesque tympanum is replace with rose windows and the sculpture program that use to sit in the tympanum ends up in the pinnacle of the recessed portal. But there's still a focus on the jamb, the trumeau and the lintel. The voussoirs are difficult in gothic architecture because they taper into the pointed roof of the portal.

The pointed arches you currently have in there are awesome. I would go less conical and more square with the pinnacles. Also, the point of the centered gable roof is usually the point of a pointed barrel vault, so keep that in mind. Another aspect of gothic churches is a ribbing effect inside that made the depth of the building from the narthex to the apse seem more expansive.

I hope this helps and does not come off as just pretentious, because we all know how pretentious I sound right now.

[Martin_B]

@Hinckley: no worries - you come across as being knowledgable rather than pretentious, and hearing from people who know about gothic architecture is exactly what I need to hear!

I'm working on the apse first, then moving to the crossing and the rest in stages afterwards...apparently that's how the originals were built (although I hope to finish the job in under 600 years! ) but going one region at a time is the easiest way. I can get the heights and widths right early on in the build.

The half round arches you mentioned (the four in a block on the left hand side) are actually the arcs of the flying butresses...I realised that I needed to do pointed arches, but found a use for the 'quarter round' shape in those instead. The pinnacles will be decorated, with some embellishments on top of those cones. Cologne's pinnacles in particular are very...spiky. Tricky to do, but a fun challenge!

EDIT: I really ought to emphasise how long this is going to take me...I expect to finish the apse in the next couple of weeks, but by Christmas the rest will still be at the 'floor plan' stage and I probably won't have got too far with the crossing and transepts by then. Really the main thing that's slowing me down is finding the right parts on Bricklink, and having the money ready!

Edited November 13, 2013 by Martin_B

[alois]

The half arches are exactly right for a gothic cathedral. Flying butresses never had the form of pointed arches. Also, there is a lot of variation in gothic cathedrals (remember, they were built from 1130 till the end of the 16th century). I think the structure is quite right. I would stay with three aisles, not five, since you are already building it in microscale.

[Hinckley]

The half arches are exactly right for a gothic cathedral.

If they were windows it would be wildly inappropriate.

As they are now, they look to me like windows. That portion of the facade should have some lancet windows in it. Flying buttresses would transverse the nave. The entrance to the church is the narthex. You can use flying buttresses on the narthex, but that's not common in Gothic architecture. They generally had compound buttressing. If you use flying buttresses on the narthex, they should be outside the buttresses that are transversing the nave. The purpose of the buttressing is to support the wall in order for it to support the stone roof, yet let as much light in through the stain glass windows as possible. Look up Gothic Lux Nova. The facade outside the narthex should rise (for about three registers of large open lancet windows –with full pointed arches– and there should be a false gallery on top) before two ornate and hollow westwerck towers rise above that. The flying buttresses would go over the aisles (which run along the nave) and not touch the facade of the narthex. Right now it looks like the buttressing is part of the facade and that is not how they built Gothic cathedrals.

[Martin_B]

It's probably not very clear at this early stage, so I can understand why there might be some confusion! The pic in my post above is a cross section view of the choir area from where the crossing will be, towards the apse (there's a lancet window shape in the background, which is where the 'East' end will be). The four rounded arch bricks form the 'flying' bits of the buttress, and although some buildings did use arches of that shape everywhere, I'm planning to build pointed arches for the windows and vaulting as in the later designs.

A small detail: the flying buttresses of Cologne are unusual in that there are two rows of vertical supports with shorter curved arches running along the walls, while Notre Dame for instance uses one row of vertical supports with longer arches. I'm going for the Cologne-style arrangement. I'll have some more pieces of the right colours arriving this week, so I can make some progress and hopefully it'll be clearer to you all about how it's going to come together!

Edited November 13, 2013 by Martin_B

[Hinckley]

A small detail: the flying buttresses of Cologne are unusual in that there are two rows of vertical supports with shorter curved arches running along the walls, while Notre Dame for instance uses one row of vertical supports with longer arches. I'm going for the Cologne-style arrangement. I'll have some more pieces of the right colours arriving this week, so I can make some progress and hopefully it'll be clearer to you all about how it's going to come together!

As the gothic period progressed they made their flying buttresses crazier and crazier as if to say "look how much this not-wall, can be a not-wall and how much light we can get through it in interesting patterns!"

For example, Chartres:

As for making everything exactly to the rules, obviously that's not necessary when you're the creator of something. I certainly encourage creativity. For example, gothic architects didn't always stick to the rules. Gothic Flamboyant is one example. But, if you're going to create a gothic cathedral (and Martin, I feel you understand this, I'm just pre-arguing against anyone who thinks I'm giving too specific advice), you should know why everything in a gothic cathedral exists (which Martin, you seem to). Why are there westwerck towers, why are the arches pointed, why is the ambulatory round? Actually, that reminds me, will you have a cloister? But, make whatever shape you want. Break the rules, but you should know the rules first before you break them. Having flying buttresses come off the front of the building would be fine, but if they're buttressing a wall that isn't full of windows, it doesn't make much sense. Learning why architecture that exists is the way it is can really lead to a clearer path for your creativity.

Oh, and the gothic architects in Germany were obsessed with the flying buttress, so relative to the Italy, France and the UK, the buttresses will be significantly different. Colognes buttresses are likely a bit nutty just because the German architects loved their buttresses.

[Hinckley]

In regards to my new title, Z, I'm much more than just a buttress man.

[The_Cook]

On a slightly related note, Durham Cathedral is building version of itself in Lego to raise money. I can't find a thread charting progress but a Google Image search for Durham Lego Cathedral provides images.

When I was there in the summer they were still at the floor tiles stage but it looks like they're making good progress and nave walls have reached the clerestory and roof vaults.

[Hinckley]

That looks like early gothic as it has many Romanesque features. I'd like to research it to see when it was built and where. It may actually be Romanesque.

[The_Cook]

The majority of Durham is Romanesque completed towards then end of the 12th century; the eastern end was rebuilt in the Gothic style in the 13th Century.

[Martin_B]

A small update to ask for opinions on my first attempt at a stained glass window:

Thanks again for the advice so far too. Yeah, Durham is more Romanesque for the most part...quite an early example I think. I'm going for a later, more 'decorative' era with the pointed arches and insane flying buttress arrangements - hence turning to Cologne for inspiration. That seems to be a marriage of French style and German engineering! I would've liked to have tried a recreation of how St Peter of Beauvais would've looked if it was completed, since minifig scale Lego isn't affected by the laws of physics in the same way. It's at least possible to finish what the designers of that building couldn't, but I'm already worried about what my visits to Bricklink are doing to my bank balance!

I'm still only at the apse/choir/chevet stage - the buttresses and vaulting are coming along nice though. It's a matter of getting the pieces in large enough quantities really. The only serious potential issue came up while doing a google search for stained glass tutorials...I didn't expect to be the first person to take on a project like this, but there's an absolutely superb MOC (featured in this thread a few years back) that's eerily close to what I had in mind in terms of scale and general outline. It's awesome and all, and I salute the talented person who built it, but it's one of those "someone has already done what I wanted to do and done it better" situations. I'm now worried about being seen as plagiarising someone else's hard work! What do you guys do when something like that happens?

[Martin_B]

If you excuse the double-post, here's where it stands now: waiting on a couple of Bricklink orders that I think are getting caught up in the Christmas rush at my local post office. I'll have to install the high altar and windows of the chevet in January, but eh. I knew it would be a long job!

This is how the triforium and clerestory windows are coming along:

And the view from the outside. I didn't want to include *any* rounded arches, but using these windows was the most efficient way of getting the effect I wanted.

I've seen other builders use Technic gears and wheels for decoration around the windows, so I made a conscious effort to do something different. Poring over pics of Cologne like this one, the three-blade propeller seems to fit and I was really pleased with the end result. Credit goes to this article on cheese slopes for stained glass patterns...I'm looking forward to coming up with different ones for different parts of the building.

[The_Cook]

The consistent grey is looking a lot nicer than the original multi-coloured prototype from the first post.

The curve of the ambulatory is also particularly pleasing.

It's going to be an immense project, you're going to be at this for some months.

[LegoPanda]

it is starting to look good, i like the stained glass, especially the lower half with the 1X1 plates

[Infernum]

This is looking fantastic! Can't wait to see the end result!

[kabel]

wow, this is starting to look extremely good. Really like how you're making these gothic arches, awesome job!

[LegoPanda]

i have one suggestion, that is to put little 1x1 round plates on those "stud on every side bricks (don't know their name)" on those little towers

Edited December 15, 2013 by LegoPanda

[Martin_B]

Thanks everyone!

@The_Cook: I started out using the 'old' light grey, not realising that it had been discontinued (must've happened sometime in the last few years during my Dark Ages)! The light bley is nice to work with though, and when I didn't have the right pieces to hand I slipped a dark grey in here and there. The curved end to the ambulatory is proving to be a challenge, so I'm expecting more head-scratching before I'm finished with it.

@Infernum: it's going to take quite a while I'm afraid. I haven't even started on the towers yet...they may be over a metre in height by the end!

@kabel: that's reassuring to know. Rounded arches would've been easier I suppose, but I'm glad that taking the more difficult approach with pointed ones is working out!

@LegoPanda: good thinking! I was wondering what to do with those little pinnacles...a job lot of litle 1x1 round plates ought to be just right there. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Bregir]

This is just amazing. I am following this project closely and will be looking forward to see where it goes.

Brick on!