Technic Instructions-How Long Does It Take?

[Lipko]

Maybe it's not the best fitting forum, but I only build in Technic and Technic instructions may be a bit different than systems models.

How long does instructions making take for you experienced instruction makers with Ldraw tools? And what is the longest part? Building the model? Stepping the model? Adding rotations, arrows and floating parts? Setting up the callouts and overall layout in LPub? Finishing touches and error checking?

I'm in the middle of instruction making for a 2300-part Technic model, I'm done with the modelling and stepping part and just started to add arrows and floating parts. I have been working on it since two months now, pretty much all my free time is going into it and I'm really getting to the point to just ask someone else to finish the instructions since I don't have any time for building.

My computer also seems to be not up to the task, everything is slow, there are render glitches in LPub (some parts are transparent in the BOM), MLCad seems to have a bug (?) too: buffer exchange objects (floating parts and arrows) appear/disappear fine in view mode but if a sub-part has buffer exchange objects, they all show in the main file of the multipart file in view mode. This makes things obscured and makes instruction making a nightmare. Checking in LPub in parallel is no option, because it is so slow (every step takes 4-5 seconds to load, jumping to specific page numbers make the program hang for minutes).

I'm asking because if it's not so much work for a pro to make instructions from a completely modelled and stepped model, they I will ask someone to make it for me because I see it will take months for me to finish.

Thanks for any feedback in advance.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Lipko

[legolijntje]

Well, it depends on the size of the model, but the short answer is: long. Especially for Technic models.

Although, once you get more experienced, things go faster (at least for me, making instructions for a 2500+ pcs Technic model went much smoother the last time than it did the first time).

I think the thing that takes the most time is just getting the instructions right: having good steps (not too simple, especially not to difficult), making sure it's possible to build, adding rotation steps etc. etc. And, of course (especially for paid instructions) you need to test-build the instructions multiple times. The actual layout (with callouts, multiple steps per page), cover pages and things like that, take the least amount of time.

Also, buffer exchange (floating parts and arrows) can take up a lot of time. But, that's mostly due to MLCad. I (personally) can't work very well with mlcad and in my opinion it's slow, old and annoying to work with. LDCad is a 1000 times easier. It can't add buffer exchange though, but I try to add as much arrows as possible by hand in the pdf instead of in the ldraw file.

Regarding slow lpub: yes, it's slow. You can try the newest version of LPub3D, for me it's quite a bit faster than the originial LPub. Also, you can change the settings to use LDglite as renderer for when you're working on the instructions. The quality is lower, but it's a lot faster. When you're 100% done, you switch to LDView and then render the full instructions.

[Lipko]

Thanks for the reply!

Is it normal that after panning/rotating the view in MLCad in edit mode, it takes 2-3 seconds to redraw the view? And 5-6 seconds to swap between view and edit mode?

I'm starting to think that the bottleneck is that I have to check if the step/arrow/rotation is correct and what's the next task after every single task with this slow process (where 80% of the time is waiting the program to refresh). I wish I had better memory as a gold fish.

If my machine is the reason and MLCad is not that slow normally, then I really have to ask for help to complete the instructions.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Lipko

[legolijntje]

The 3D view in MLCad is really not that useful and it's quite slow. Switching between view and edit mode: I have no idea. I can't remember, that's how few I use MLCad nowadays

But, I can't imagine your PC to be a noticeble bottleneck. Altough things can get a little heavier/slower with larger models, it's probably more the software than the hardware. But, I don't know the LDraw model or your pc hardware. so I'm only 99% sure

[Erik Leppen]

It depends a lot on how far you want to go with detailing.

I, for example, don't use the buffer exchange system. I just add the parts in place. If something is unclear, I put it in a submodel and work with smaller steps. My limit is somewhere around 2000 parts (anything beyond that makes LPub and LDview act weird). But my models can have as much as 50 submodels. Sometimes a submodel has only four parts.

Also, I just omit the strings and flexible elements. I just do the instructions in a way that AFOLs will probably understand and can fill in the details.

And yes, MLCad and LPub are slow (on my computer as well, and it's certainly not a slow computer). I do have a very useful tip though, for combatting the slowness a little. What I do, is when I first open LPub to make the instructions, I first print a PDF of everything, just so it renders everything. During this process, which can easily take 15 minutes or longer, I just go do something else (e.g. take lunch, build something, play a game on my tablet, etc.). This way, I don't have to wait 10 seconds or so every time a new page loads, because everything is already rendered. The layout phase (the fun part, IMO) then goes much quicker.

Unless there's mistakes of course. Then it all starts over again.

[Alasdair Ryan]

Well let my first say that I am some what of a "knowledgeable Lego cad user" I have been working with MLcad for about 8 years,I joined the rat race and moved to SR3D when it came out which to this day I find it much better than any of the other lego cad software (I have also used LDD and LDCad).

Lego instruction making (especially if it is technic) is slow and and can become complicated , I would suggest to split the model many sub-models and to save your work regularly.

I suspect a lot of your computer processing work when processing your file is when it is trying to understand the flexible parts,have you tried to remove temporarily until the end the end ?

I have wrote some tutorials on using buffer-exchange on my blog,there is really not much more to buffer-exchange than this.

I do not know if this is a "secret project" but if you need help,feel free to pm me.

[Lipko]

Thank you for the comments!

Based on your comments I'm on the right track. I have 58 submodels at the moment and there are even submodels with only one part to draw more attention with the callout that the part has to be inserted.

I intentionally left the flex parts at the end with placeholder parts so that hopefully I can set everything (even the layout) up and replace the placeholders with the actual flex parts.

I don't see how could I get away with not using buffer exchange, there are many situations when it's very tricky to show which pin/axle needs to go to which hole especially when joining larger subassemblies. I also find buffer exchange a good tool to draw attention to parts that otherwise would be harder to spot (for example due to parts added in one step symmetrically). Though I'm not experienced enough and sometimes I overdo it. Adding this extra bit doesn't seem to be too time consuming but along with the frequent verification in view mode, this can be an issue.

Another thing I "learned" is to finish the main assembly before the submodels, so the buffer exchange stuff in the submodels obscuring stuff in the main model in view mode won't bother me (I still don't know though that whether it's a bug or some hidden setting).

That's for the pdf export tip, I will certainly do that.

So to sum it up: probably it is just this huge work and should just discipline myself and finish it (I did instructions for a 8-900 part model before, that was also slow but this one is getting over my head).

Thanks Alasdair for the offer, I'll fight a bit more with finishing it myself.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Lipko

[BusterHaus]

Another vote for splitting the model into a lot of submodels - it helps with the work flow by dividing the instructions into smaller chunks that that make the whole model less daunting. I like to make submodels that take less than an hour to build on the computer. I can then do one, two or even three submodels per evening. It's also much easier to spot mistakes in submodels.

I used MLCad for most of my instructions up to now and it has some real advantages when it comes to the stepping/rotating of models. However, the lack of autosnap is a big drawback. You can compensate a bit by not having the axles and gear holes or gear teeth aligned without interference, as such collisions are rarely visible in PDF instructions.

I recently spent some time learning LDCad and it is much faster to work with than MLCad. I built the model in it and did the stepping/rotating in MLCad. I think version 1.5 now supports better stepping, so maybe it's no longer necessary to use both programs.

Either way, making good instructions is very time consuming. I now adopted a policy of only making instructions for more interesting mechanisms or for C-Models, as anything else is probably not going to be useful to anyone.

I also tried photo instructions, but those are a different beast.

[legolijntje]

Yes, LDCad 1.5 has a new 'source editor' which is a like the 'source-editor' in MLCad (the text-lines at the top). It makes it much easier to re-order and move steps (easier than pre1.5 and faster than MLCad). You have to add it yourself though,

.

The upcoming 1.6 update probably includes support for rotsteps too

[__________________________]

Also- if you do sell the instructions you can use money to upgrade computer

[Lipko]

Also- if you do sell the instructions you can use money to upgrade computer

Based on the demand for the free instructions (made by others) for my other models, I could buy a calculator...

[1963maniac]

Talking about buying a better computer, could someone please tell me what they use as far as clock speed, amount of RAM, and graphics card? I am very frustrated with my PC and experience with LPUB 3D that gets stuck. I think I need a new PC and would like to know what is working for other people.

[legolijntje]

Talking about buying a better computer, could someone please tell me what they use as far as clock speed, amount of RAM, and graphics card? I am very frustrated with my PC and experience with LPUB 3D that gets stuck. I think I need a new PC and would like to know what is working for other people.

Well, if you want to know, I have an Intel quad-core i5 unlocked (overclockable) running at stock speed of about 3.7 GHz I believe, the GPU is an AMD r9 280x and 16gb of RAM.

But, that's all probably (highly likely) overkill for LDraw based tools. I think with basically any modern dual or quad core and decent graphics card, you can run LPub, LDCad, MLCad, whatever other tool is out there without any problems.

[zux]

I have very similar setup as legolijntje, but want to add that..

But, that's all probably (highly likely) overkill for LDraw based tools. I think with basically any modern dual or quad core and decent graphics card

Intel CPU integrated GPU would work fine as well.

[legolijntje]

I have very similar setup as legolijntje, but want to add that..

Intel CPU integrated GPU would work fine as well.

Probably, the latest integrated GPUs are very nice and they're getting so much better every year