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HMS Monarch


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40 replies to this topic  – Started by Captain Genaro , Feb 02 2011 05:45 PM

#1 Captain Genaro

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 05:45 PM

I finally decided to give CGH's tutorial a try and so far, I'm glad I did. Unfortaintly, due to money, I could only make my ship with 3 mid-sections and I had to use the new bow and stern pieces instead of the old which resulted in some small design changes from the original tutorial. Also, I wanted my ship to have a lot of guns without buying more mid-sections so I decided to have 3 studs between guns instead of 4. Another idea I was thinking of was to make the deck removeable. I was not set on this idea untill I saw Perfectionists' ship; that is when I decided my ship had to have a removeable deck. Enough of my blabbering, here are some pictures of the HMS Monarch.

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You can't really tell but the windows on the side do angle out.
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Thank you to CGH and Perfectionist for the tutorial and the deck removal techniques.
Questions:
Where should the masts go and how many should there be? I am not basing this of any specific ship so I have no idea what to do for the masts.
Any ideas for the stern? I think it's a little plain right now.


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#2 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 06:00 PM

That's a rather nice ship so far :thumbup:
The shape and colours are good, and I like the name as well.
As for the stern, you could add a line of yellow 1x1 round plates like on Perfectionist's ship, or some wings like I did on the Vesta.
There are a lot of possibilities, as long as you keep order in it and not too many different colours (in fact, I think just yellow and black will look the best).
Some other small improvements could be to reduce the number of these bricks used for the ladder, and to give the railing more of a curve.

And are you planning to give it a full interior? That would be interesting :pir-classic:
For the rigging, I would make it a brig since it's a rather small ship.
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#3 Aalak

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:33 PM

She's looking good so far. I really like the thinning of the yellow gunstripe to the bow. a nice color . I jealous of your yellow flags, used for the gunports ...  :pir-wub:

I'm with the Admiral, you should use two masts. But then we end ;) I would make the HMS Monarch a Shooner... but that's just my opinion... Shooner-Rigging.

Good work so far. :thumbup:

#4 lt.Gonville brickhead

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:38 PM

I agree,two masts should be enough.
One question though , Is it bluecoat or a redcoat ship. :jollyroger:

Edited by lt.Gonville brickhead, 02 February 2011 - 08:38 PM.

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#5 Captain Genaro

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:45 PM

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 02 February 2011 - 06:00 PM, said:

That's a rather nice ship so far Posted Image
The shape and colours are good, and I like the name as well.
As for the stern, you could add a line of yellow 1x1 round plates like on Perfectionist's ship, or some wings like I did on the Vesta.
There are a lot of possibilities, as long as you keep order in it and not too many different colours (in fact, I think just yellow and black will look the best).
Some other small improvements could be to reduce the number of these bricks used for the ladder, and to give the railing more of a curve.

And are you planning to give it a full interior? That would be interesting Posted Image
For the rigging, I would make it a brig since it's a rather small ship.
Good luck!

Thank you for the kind words. I think that I will take your advice for the ladder.
I think that it would be nice to have more curve on the railing but since I used Perfectionist's idea for the deck, I don't see how I could do that.
I am going to put in a Captains desk, chair, bed, and mabey a galley. Oh, and if we have room, a cannon or two.Posted Image

View PostAalak, on 02 February 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

She's looking good so far. I really like the thinning of the yellow gunstripe to the bow. a nice color . I jealous of your yellow flags, used for the gunports ...  Posted Image

I'm with the Admiral, you should use two masts. But then we end ;) I would make the HMS Monarch a Shooner... but that's just my opinion... Shooner-Rigging.

Good work so far. Posted Image

Thank you, I'm glad that you like her.

I guess I'll make it a two-mast ship but I'm afraid that I have to agree with the admiral on the ship type. I looked over both ships and I like the sails on a brig more and it looks like schooners were used as merchant ships or blockade runners, not fighting ships.

Just to confirm, she is a Redcoat ship.

Edited by Captain Genaro, 02 February 2011 - 08:47 PM.

HMS Monarch, Pride of the Royal Fleet

Giovanni Capanni, a problem-eliminating hitman in CMF Mafia 2
Chlodochar, a LOYAL warrior in Ragnarök Now Redux
Thomas, an INNOCENT fish-watcher aboard the Pearl.
Ginny, a TOWNIE jockey in Heartlake Heartbreak!.
Gerrid, a SCUM Servant of Loki in Ragnarök Now
Frankie Daly, a mostly LOYAL deckhand in Red Scare Mystery
Gen, a TOWNIE bum in Eurodina
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#6 Captain Becker

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:35 PM

There is too much yellow IMO, and the gunports ssould be black, and the stairs wich lead on to the deck..... Maby a little bit less, also i think at the 2 mast should be good plus the steering wheel should be a bit more forward than in the back. Also take a look at Captain Blackmoors WIP sloop Achille, it s a true master piece. Sorry if i sound a bit too hard, but like you said its a still WIP and im waiting for updates before giving some more feedback. Good luck whit her.

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#7 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 10:39 PM

View PostCaptain Genaro, on 02 February 2011 - 08:45 PM, said:

I think that it would be nice to have more curve on the railing but since I used Perfectionist's idea for the deck, I don't see how I could do that.
Should be quite easy with some plates instead of bricks. I made an example with my paint-art :pir-classic:  Something like this would look good:
Posted Image

Quote

I guess I'll make it a two-mast ship but I'm afraid that I have to agree with the admiral on the ship type. I looked over both ships and I like the sails on a brig more and it looks like schooners were used as merchant ships or blockade runners, not fighting ships.
A very good choice :pir-classic:
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#8 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 02:03 AM

Ok, first of all I really like what you have done so far; it's a very promising start! However, there are a few issues.

View PostCaptain Genaro, on 02 February 2011 - 08:45 PM, said:

I think that it would be nice to have more curve on the railing but since I used Perfectionist's idea for the deck, I don't see how I could do that.

You may be using the input, but you're not using my technique. If you would, your deck would curve in two ways, have a cut out section for the boats and white plates on the bottom:

Posted Image

I've taken this photo during the building process in May 2010. It shows a bit of how the deck is built using jumperplates and that the tiles are not just decoration...

Anyway I take it you don't have the means to make your ship so complicated. As you want to stick with only 3 (!) midsections I think you have two choices:

-rebuild your ship and make it a brig-of-war (2masts), like the Lady Washington (HMS Interceptor from PotC):

Posted Image

In that case, you would not need to worry about the deck since these elegant vessels had an "open" gundeck so to speak, i.e. there was no complete deck on top. The crew slept in the Orlop, like on a frigate. As you can see on the picture, the guns were also much lower above the waterline and the stern much smaller and without gallerys and less decoration.

-the 2nd option would be to stretch your ship by 2 midsections and make it a proper 3 mast frigate. You'd still need to lower your gunports a bit since they're really high atm, but not by that much while your stern and line would be pretty fine.

That is if you want historic accuracy. Of course you can also build a ship that never existed and mixes all different types, but I can't give any advice in that case.

When you made a choice, there will still be a few minor issues like the stairs that have too many steps, the colourscheme that is slightly too much yellow IMO and the gunports should be rather 4 instead of 3 bricks apart for historic and aesthetic reasons. But first you should decide and communicate what kind of ship this should become!  :pir-classic:
I wish you successful building!

View PostCaptain Becker, on 02 February 2011 - 09:35 PM, said:

Also take a look at Captain Blackmoors WIP sloop Achille,

While it's indeed well built, Captain Blackmoor's Sloop is named Alcheste. Achille is my ship.  :pir-hmpf_bad:

Edited by Perfectionist, 03 February 2011 - 02:05 AM.

Posted ImagePosted Image_Posted Image_Posted ImagePosted Image


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#9 Captain Genaro

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 04:06 AM

Thanks everyone for the comments. My head is swimming with all this nautical information.

View PostAdmiral Croissant, on 02 February 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

Should be quite easy with some plates instead of bricks. I made an example with my paint-art Posted Image  Something like this would look good:
SNIP
Ah, I see what you mean Admiral. I thought you wanted the railings to sloop inwards, towards each other. I will give your idea a try.

View PostPerfectionist, on 03 February 2011 - 02:03 AM, said:

You may be using the input, but you're not using my technique. If you would, your deck would curve in two ways, have a cut out section for the boats and white plates on the bottom:
SNIP

-rebuild your ship and make it a brig-of-war (2masts), like the Lady Washington (HMS Interceptor from PotC):
SNIP
In that case, you would not need to worry about the deck since these elegant vessels had an "open" gundeck so to speak, i.e. there was no complete deck on top. The crew slept in the Orlop, like on a frigate. As you can see on the picture, the guns were also much lower above the waterline and the stern much smaller and without gallerys and less decoration.

-the 2nd option would be to stretch your ship by 2 midsections and make it a proper 3 mast frigate. You'd still need to lower your gunports a bit since they're really high atm, but not by that much while your stern and line would be pretty fine.

That is if you want historic accuracy. Of course you can also build a ship that never existed and mixes all different types, but I can't give any advice in that case.

When you made a choice, there will still be a few minor issues like the stairs that have too many steps, the colourscheme that is slightly too much yellow IMO and the gunports should be rather 4 instead of 3 bricks apart for historic and aesthetic reasons. But first you should decide and communicate what kind of ship this should become!  Posted Image
I wish you successful building!

Thank you for the kind words and advice.

I think I understand what you are saying about the deck. You are saying that the deck should look like this from an aerial view, right? If so, may I ask how you got the railings to be in a straight line? They don't bend with the rest of the deck.
I am sticking with a three mid-section ship due to money but I don't like the idea of a ship without a top deck. I guess that I'll bend the rules a bit and make it a brig with a deckPosted Image .
Based off of what I am seeing...
To do list
1) Less yellow
2) Lower gunports
Also, I rebuilt the ladder.
Posted Image

HMS Monarch, Pride of the Royal Fleet

Giovanni Capanni, a problem-eliminating hitman in CMF Mafia 2
Chlodochar, a LOYAL warrior in Ragnarök Now Redux
Thomas, an INNOCENT fish-watcher aboard the Pearl.
Ginny, a TOWNIE jockey in Heartlake Heartbreak!.
Gerrid, a SCUM Servant of Loki in Ragnarök Now
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#10 Admiral Byrd

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 04:31 AM

Others have already mentioned it, but I would suggest lowering the gun ports and replacing the yellow cannon flags with a different color. Yellow gun ports would be killer on some ships, but for yours with as much yellow as you have, i would suggest replacing them. I do like having the thick yellow line across the hull and the slim yellow smooth plates on the top give it a very nice look indeed!

I'm not sure if you have thought much ahead yet as to your sails and rigging, but my question for you would be what you intend to use for your sails? I know you stated she is to be a redcoat ship, (welcome to the good side!) but I think you could use this instance to tie her appearance in with her allegiance.

If you are willing to deviate some from the historical ship models like I think you are, and if you are looking to create a redcoat two masted ship, then I think you could maybe use my thought here. If you are planning on using existing Lego sails instead of creating your own, I would suggest borrowing the red and white striped sails from the Black Seas Barricuda http://guide.lugnet....t/?q=6285_1&v=z and matching those with Red Gun Ports Flags. This would give you a red coat feeling by looking at the ship and match the top of the ship more to the hull while still giving you an elegant look with the yellow you are using instead of the black and white most ships rely on. This would be a nice aesthetic look I think and give you a different option than just going back to black gun ports and having a two color schemed vessel.

If you intend on making your own sails you would probably retain the more historical look though and the red gun ports may still look nice.


P.S. A new random thought just popped in my head. You could actually borrow the sails from the Brickbeard's Bounty too! http://guide.lugnet....t/?q=6243_1&v=z Just use the two topsails four times in place of the skull and crossbones ones. The red shade on those is a darker red than the BSB sails and would likely match the darker red gun ports even more. http://www.peeron.com/inv/sets/6285-1 item number: 2335.

Have fun! I think you're ship is going to look fantastic! :pir-cry_happy:

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#11 Captain Becker

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 03:35 PM

View PostPerfectionist, on 03 February 2011 - 02:03 AM, said:

While it's indeed well built, Captain Blackmoor's Sloop is named Alcheste. Achille is my ship.  :pir-hmpf_bad:
Oops, sorry about that :pir_laugh2:  Its quite hard to remember all those wonderful ship names, but hey, at least i got it almoust right. Because they both start whit letter "A". And beside that, the names are quite similiar to each other. So easy mistake :pir-look:  

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Edited by Captain Becker, 03 February 2011 - 03:35 PM.

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#12 Tazmaniac

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 09:21 AM

If your not trying to replicate a real ship then you can use as mush "Artistic License" as you like, I understand you want it to look like a real ship but there's no need to address every detail.
The main criteria I think is are YOU happy with it?.
If you'd like a flush top deck but only have parts for a Brig then go for it.

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#13 Captain Genaro

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 04:19 AM

Thank you for all the comments everyone! You're giving me tons of great ideas and improvements!

View PostAdmiral Byrd, on 03 February 2011 - 04:31 AM, said:

I'm not sure if you have thought much ahead yet as to your sails and rigging, but my question for you would be what you intend to use for your sails? I know you stated she is to be a redcoat ship, (welcome to the good side!) but I think you could use this instance to tie her appearance in with her allegiance.
REALLY BIG SNIP

I have not thought much about the rigging or masts yet. I guess now would be a good time. I like some of your ideas however I don't think that I'll go with the red gunports. I would like to try and keep the colors just black and yellow for most of the ship.
This does bring me to two rigging/mast questions,
1) How sturdy is the rope rigging? Could I move minifigs in it to make a brickfilm without any damage?
2) How much more do brickbuilt masts cost? I think they look better but I have yet to find a pot of gold.

View PostTazManiac, on 04 February 2011 - 09:21 AM, said:

If your not trying to replicate a real ship then you can use as mush "Artistic License" as you like, I understand you want it to look like a real ship but there's no need to address every detail.
The main criteria I think is are YOU happy with it?.
If you'd like a flush top deck but only have parts for a Brig then go for it.
I compleatly agree with you. Why would I want a ship if I'm not even happy with itPosted Image ?
Everyone who told me to lower the gunports, what part were you talking about?
Red Distance from the gundeck to top of hull.
Blue Current gunport to top of gundeck.
Posted Image

HMS Monarch, Pride of the Royal Fleet

Giovanni Capanni, a problem-eliminating hitman in CMF Mafia 2
Chlodochar, a LOYAL warrior in Ragnarök Now Redux
Thomas, an INNOCENT fish-watcher aboard the Pearl.
Ginny, a TOWNIE jockey in Heartlake Heartbreak!.
Gerrid, a SCUM Servant of Loki in Ragnarök Now
Frankie Daly, a mostly LOYAL deckhand in Red Scare Mystery
Gen, a TOWNIE bum in Eurodina
Geoffrey Oult, an Honorable soldier in Imperial Soldiers Mafia

#14 Aalak

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 03:09 PM

View PostCaptain Genaro, on 05 February 2011 - 04:19 AM, said:

Everyone who told me to lower the gunports, what part were you talking about?
Red Distance from the gundeck to top of hull.
Blue Current gunport to top of gundeck.
Posted Image

Ok, the problem here is, that the gunports are to high inside the yellow stripe to be "acurate" to normal gunstripes... since you got interior, you actually can't really lower them that much more, maybe two plates... in addition to that, you could add another line of black plates, where the hinges are. so you should replace one line of bricks, with three lines of plates. and maybe or generally loose two lines of plates of yellow in general.  
I try to write it how I would build it:
plates black (with the modified plates for the gunports)
plates yellow
bricks yellow
bricks yellow
black plates
black plates
black plates

so in all your gundeck below the upper black line is 3 bricks, enough place to for cannons with interior, weels and a tiled deck. Much like in the picture of Perfectionist's Achille:
Posted Image

Hope I could help!

#15 Admiral Byrd

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 05:02 PM

For your gunports, I'd say the bottom of the flags should be close to touching the bottom of the yellow bricks on the hull. The flag should come close to touching the black plates area. More like your blue line, but not quite that far down.

Does that make sense?

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#16 Captain Genaro

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 09:19 PM

I finally got the chance to lower the gunports and get rid of some of the yellow.

Posted Image

I have only got the chance to fix the port side so far. What do you think?


HMS Monarch, Pride of the Royal Fleet

Giovanni Capanni, a problem-eliminating hitman in CMF Mafia 2
Chlodochar, a LOYAL warrior in Ragnarök Now Redux
Thomas, an INNOCENT fish-watcher aboard the Pearl.
Ginny, a TOWNIE jockey in Heartlake Heartbreak!.
Gerrid, a SCUM Servant of Loki in Ragnarök Now
Frankie Daly, a mostly LOYAL deckhand in Red Scare Mystery
Gen, a TOWNIE bum in Eurodina
Geoffrey Oult, an Honorable soldier in Imperial Soldiers Mafia

#17 Aalak

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 10:19 PM

View PostCaptain Genaro, on 05 February 2011 - 09:19 PM, said:

I finally got the chance to lower the gunports and get rid of some of the yellow.

Posted Image

I have only got the chance to fix the port side so far. What do you think?

The gunports are looking more accurate, and you now got a complete line from the windows to the bow.  :thumbup:
But I personally liked the yellow brick line above the first black line of plates with the gunports, but It's your decission.
The problem now could be, that that much black obove the gun stripe could make her look clumsy. Since you now got, probally 3 to 3 2/3 bricks of black. You could change that by re adding the yellow line of bricks or by changing  a brick line of black by adding a line of plates in a different color, maybe red. I tried that, with my ship myself, but since it's not ready for any update fotos, I need to improvise ;) The Vesta and Achille has something quite simelar.
Another great idea is the railing of Captain Blackmoors Alceste  something simelar to what he did,could work for you, too, even in 2 colored yellow/black theme.

Posted Image

#18 Captain Genaro

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 04:05 AM

View PostAalak, on 05 February 2011 - 10:19 PM, said:

The gunports are looking more accurate, and you now got a complete line from the windows to the bow.  Posted Image
But I personally liked the yellow brick line above the first black line of plates with the gunports, but It's your decission.

I thought that you guys thought that she had too much yellowPosted Image. Oh well, I decided to make the starboard side with the black line and I think that I like it more.

Now I have to buy some new pieces to rebuild the deck and some masts. I was planning to make it brickbuilt so I know that I need some 1x1 and 2x2 cylinders; arethere any important pieces I'm missing/forgetting?

HMS Monarch, Pride of the Royal Fleet

Giovanni Capanni, a problem-eliminating hitman in CMF Mafia 2
Chlodochar, a LOYAL warrior in Ragnarök Now Redux
Thomas, an INNOCENT fish-watcher aboard the Pearl.
Ginny, a TOWNIE jockey in Heartlake Heartbreak!.
Gerrid, a SCUM Servant of Loki in Ragnarök Now
Frankie Daly, a mostly LOYAL deckhand in Red Scare Mystery
Gen, a TOWNIE bum in Eurodina
Geoffrey Oult, an Honorable soldier in Imperial Soldiers Mafia

#19 Aalak

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:41 AM

View PostCaptain Genaro, on 10 February 2011 - 04:05 AM, said:

I thought that you guys thought that she had too much yellowPosted Image. Oh well, I decided to make the starboard side with the black line and I think that I like it more.

Now I have to buy some new pieces to rebuild the deck and some masts. I was planning to make it brickbuilt so I know that I need some 1x1 and 2x2 cylinders; arethere any important pieces I'm missing/forgetting?

The yellow line was my personal thought - against most of the rest  :pir-tongue: But, the important thing is, that you like it and don't please us

If you gonna build the masts with 2x2 round bricks you defentily should use technic axles for support... the best way are the 32 lengths for the main part of the masts - I know they aren't cheap, but if you want to made selfmade  rigging and don't want to use the lego rigging you need stability,... or you end up loose your rigging with crashing masts... Trust me, I speak from experience... 3 hours of rigging destroyed in 3 seconds... just happend to me last night, and I used 2 16er axles to support the mast.... and it broke in between the axles.

For yards and the upper masts you need 3mm tubes for support as well. Another way to build the yards and smaller mast-parts are axle connectors like that Posted Image, Posted Image
Posted Image
With a lot of 2 length axles
they are quite stable...  

It would look something like that:
Posted Image

More at my flickr or the HMS Ares thread.

#20 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 12:03 PM

I think Aalak said everything important already. I also liked the all yellow look aesthetically - and it's not even historically inaccurate since most ships in the 1750s had just a few black stripes on their hull (which was rather tan in fact), but now that you made your decision I don't want to confuse you too much (maybe I did already?).

You should definitely use some colours on the topdeck railing, be it a small stripe or a pattern of 2 colours... like green and white or red and white or red and green.. just do what you like most.

The masts come after that, but as long as you don't want a modular deck, I can assure you rigging will be much easier! It's completely up to you though...

Posted ImagePosted Image_Posted Image_Posted ImagePosted Image


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#21 Captain Genaro

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 07:47 PM

I finally got my Bricklink order with the pieces for the masts and some plates for the deck.
I have not put the yards (is that what they're called?) on yet because I have been experementing with the different mast designs.
Posted Image

Posted Image

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#22 Aalak

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 09:28 PM

Nice progress!

The colors are great now. It's good to see the upper yellow stripe above the gunports again  :pir-sweet: Two things I'll like to mention/ask!

1. Snot-plattforms - nice  :pir-wub::D  but since I didn't see any of these Posted Image or these Posted Image, So I have to ask: Will you use the Lego Rigging or strings?

2. Since you want to make her a Brig you need to place the masts different. The foremast needs to be more centered. Something like that:
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I would place him above the 3rd gun port. But lovely work so far...
Keep it up and you'll have a lovely Brig!  :thumbup:

Edited by Aalak, 28 February 2011 - 02:15 AM.


#23 Imperial Shipyards

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 01:36 AM

I think I made SNOT platforms quite popular!  :pir-tongue:
But as Aalak said: plan for spots to attach the rigging to. I also think he's right about the mast placement.

She's generally coming along rather nicely, but I would strongly suggest making the 2nd mast section thinner than the lowest one, that looks far more elegant!
Also the deck is far to wide at the stern; a rather common mistake: It should be smallest there with the galleries (brigs didn't really have any btw) being under a roof and also extending the stern to less (or at least not more than) the maximum width.

Also the hole in the deck for the working area looks a bit small.

How are you planning to make this modular with the rigging when the sides are build up and sloping on the topdeck in the typical CGH way? You could try to make the sides modular instead of the deck like Admiral Croissant on his Vesta, that would be easier to build too. But the ratlines would still need to go somewhere.

Hope that helps! :pir-classic:

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#24 Captain Becker

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 07:21 AM

As Perfectionist already sayed, the "Hole" is far too small, id succest you to make it about 8 studs bigger yet. (Not sideways)
Also, i think you need to re-build your stern completly over, its far too wide, id make the stern as Lady Washingtons stern.
Click Here.As you can see, there is no side windows or anything and the windows in back are quite small ones. Id change the gunports (Yellow flags)In black, and also would change the railing like Admiral Croissant already showed to you.
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I wish you luck mate.

Captain Becker

Edited by Captain Becker, 28 February 2011 - 07:22 AM.

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#25 Admiral Croissant

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 05:40 PM

I think you've had enough advice for now :pir-classic:  I agree with the others. It can have some improvement, but it's quite a good ship already.
Just keep looking close at model ships and replica's and I'm sure it will turn out nicely. Good luck!
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