Matthias Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Hello together, I am a big Bluecoat fan since christmas 1989 and I am very glad about their return. I have a relativly big army of blue and redcoats at home. The new wave gives me a problem. What is that for a guy? We have a Governor and a cooler fighting daughter: We have a officer with a golden epaulette: an Admiral or Captain: and the normal soldier with white epaulettes: I really don´t know what the hatless guy with white epaulette shall be. If he was a officer, he would have a golden epaulette. A normal soldier would have a hat and backpack. What is he a disciplinless soldier ? A new rank like a corporal ? Or is the like the admiral a shipless sailer? What do you think and how are you going to use the fig? Edited October 6, 2014 by Matthias Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Thomsen Posted October 6, 2014 We have a Governor and a cooler fighting daughter: I have to let my inner feminist out for a moment... this is (at least) the second time I've seen this female figure referred to as the 'daughter', there is no evidence that this is the daughter of anyone, other for the tradition of female characters in the Pirate theme being the 'Admiral's Daughter' or the 'Governor's Daughter', but those were all damsel in distress type figures, which is nothing like this new character... Why can't she be a soldier on her own merit, without is being assumed that she's only in the set by virtue of her relation to someone with a high rank? Feminism out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Macsen Wledig Posted October 6, 2014 I have to let my inner feminist out for a moment... this is (at least) the second time I've seen this female figure referred to as the 'daughter', there is no evidence that this is the daughter of anyone, other for the tradition of female characters in the Pirate theme being the 'Admiral's Daughter' or the 'Governor's Daughter', but those were all damsel in distress type figures, which is nothing like this new character... Why can't she be a soldier on her own merit, without is being assumed that she's only in the set by virtue of her relation to someone with a high rank? Feminism out. To be fair, feminism didn't exist in the 18th century. They were all about the gender stereotypes in those days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matthias Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) I don t think she is a solider, because she has not the normal uniform. I would have prefered that she has the normal uniform with golden epaulette, than she would be a Officer. She might is chief of armory or she is a civilian hero of the Bluecoats. Or the the daugher of the governor? Edited October 6, 2014 by Matthias Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dr_spock Posted October 6, 2014 I think she would be a damsel causing distress with her cutlass. We don't have the back story yet in the set description. Since this is a toy, she can be anything you pretend her to be. Like daughter of the governor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wineyard Posted October 6, 2014 To be fair, feminism didn't exist in the 18th century. They were all about the gender stereotypes in those days. Hm, don't be so sure about that! Mary Wollstonecraft wrote the feminist classic A Vindication of the Rights of Woman during the late 18th century Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hive Posted October 6, 2014 I have to let my inner feminist out for a moment... this is (at least) the second time I've seen this female figure referred to as the 'daughter', there is no evidence that this is the daughter of anyone, other for the tradition of female characters in the Pirate theme being the 'Admiral's Daughter' or the 'Governor's Daughter', but those were all damsel in distress type figures, which is nothing like this new character... Why can't she be a soldier on her own merit, without is being assumed that she's only in the set by virtue of her relation to someone with a high rank? Feminism out. She's not wearing a soldier's uniform nor hat and she's in the same set as the govenor... so I think it's a reasonable deduction to assume she's his daughter. And I don't really see what's wrong with that, it's simply creating harmless context for her placement there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2maxwell Posted October 6, 2014 I think she's likely a civilian hero seeing as her outfit doesnt match the soldiers. Also, the idea that feminism is a modern idea is a very eurocentric perspective that ignores the efforts of women around the globe. On topic: He looks like an NCO. In most period armies/navies, gold epaulettes were reserved for officers ranked Lieutenant and above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TalonCard Posted October 7, 2014 I have to let my inner feminist out for a moment... this is (at least) the second time I've seen this female figure referred to as the 'daughter', there is no evidence that this is the daughter of anyone, other for the tradition of female characters in the Pirate theme being the 'Admiral's Daughter' or the 'Governor's Daughter', but those were all damsel in distress type figures, which is nothing like this new character... Why can't she be a soldier on her own merit, without is being assumed that she's only in the set by virtue of her relation to someone with a high rank? Well she's certainly somebody's daughter , though I take your point that she shouldn't necessarily be defined as such. It does make sense within the context of the theme--the female character with a relation to a high-ranking official is part and parcel of the larger Pirate storytelling tropes. Think back to Major General Stanley and Mabel in Pirates of Penzance, or Captain Blood; where the corrupt governor's niece played a major role. That was certainly an inspiration for LEGO's own Governor Broadside and Camilla, and probably for POTC's Governor Swan and Elizabeth as well. I think there's a possibility that this could be Camilla herself, with her light brown hair being a compromise of sorts between her two depictions. On the other hand, I quite liked the character of Miranda Valentina (who, to be fair, was a standard Admiral's daughter character retconned into being a soldier and leader in her own right.) And yes, it's LEGO, so they can be whoever you want them to be yadda yadda... I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with the character in any case. TC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebeus I Posted October 7, 2014 I'd say he lost his shako, he's a plain soldier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blakstone Posted October 7, 2014 I think the female soldier will and should be left rather vague. For some kids she might be the Governor's Daughter. Others might consider her just a regular officer. I think that is not impossible. Women would disguise themselves as men for such jobs and if they were discovered to be female after they were discovered to be capable, they were accepted. Historically speaking, they just did not try to push for rights for all women. Just for themselves to be accepted as being the equal of a man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2maxwell Posted October 7, 2014 I think the female soldier will and should be left rather vague. For some kids she might be the Governor's Daughter. Others might consider her just a regular officer. I think that is not impossible. Women would disguise themselves as men for such jobs and if they were discovered to be female after they were discovered to be capable, they were accepted. Historically speaking, they just did not try to push for rights for all women. Just for themselves to be accepted as being the equal of a man. I dont know that she'll be left vague. The "good" female figs in the 2009 line were identified as the Admiral and Governor's daughters, right? Regardless, I'd prefer if she just had a name and left the rest to imagination, like you said. Having her as a fighting fig is a step in the right direction for Lego, and having her relevance not be tied to one of the male figs would be another step. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blakstone Posted October 7, 2014 I agree on all points. By vague, I just did not want them to give a relationship to a father, husband, or boyfriend. She could be called Soldier, Officer, or Constance. But I never focused on the given minifig names as a kid and only consider them for licensed sets now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mencot Posted October 8, 2014 I like seeing that the soliders has gotten their fair share of personal soliders also, becuase when I was a kid in the eighties and early nineties I always played as the bluecoats and my brother had the pirates. And the pirates had personal figs included the soliders not so much. Ofcourse the piratemagazine that was published (don´t remeber the name, but it had Will and Rummy as minifigs included with the magazine) so in there so of the soliders had some names but they were boring and did get their butts kicked. So I like to see that guy with the white epaulette as a hero type of the bluecoat soliders, some what of a undisciplined rogueheart but gets the job done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Becker Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I have been away from here for quite a while, reasons being mostly real life things and hurry so I forgot the site so to speak. Id like to know where have these rumours, or news come from that the bluecoats are coming back? Or that we are getting some sort of new POTC/Pirates line? Captain Becker EDIT: Nevermind, now when I looked closely its actually everywhere.... Edited October 8, 2014 by Captain Becker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blakstone Posted October 8, 2014 I have been away from here for quite a while, reasons being mostly real life things and hurry so I forgot the site so to speak. Id like to know where have these rumours, or news come from that the bluecoats are coming back? Or that we are getting some sort of new POTC/Pirates line? Captain Becker The discussion on these sets are in the 2015 LEGO Pirates rumors and discussion thread but the actual photos are here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Braunsfeld Posted October 9, 2014 Well she's certainly somebody's daughter This is so true, I was about to say that (too late) Probably our imagination is heavily influenced by Pirates of the Carribean... I'd say he lost his shako, he's a plain soldier. To get back to the initial question: Sebeus has a point here (same epaulettes as the "obvious" soldier). However, standard soldiers were not armed with pistols. So, what about "Lieutenant"? In any case I can hardly wait until these sets will come out. And, whatever we may find missing, I will definetely BUY them! ALL OF THEM!!! And, having seen the return of redcoats, now bluecoats I would hope for the Spanish guys in 2-3 years time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas of Tortuga Posted October 9, 2014 Guys... SHE HAS PANTS AND A CUTLASS. Are you not feminist-satisfied, that Lego decided of their own accord to make one of the action heroes female? I think that's pretty awesome that she isn't wearing the massive block dress like all the other females in historical themes have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2maxwell Posted October 9, 2014 To get back to the initial question: Sebeus has a point here (same epaulettes as the "obvious" soldier). However, standard soldiers were not armed with pistols. So, what about "Lieutenant"? As I said earlier, commissioned officers in most armies and navies of this period would have had gold or silver epaulettes. This man is likely an officer, but one below lieutenant. Sergeant or corporal I'd guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rexworth Posted October 10, 2014 LEGO Group did not want people to know the real story, about a man who was a private but would not be made an officer. Because, his wife would not have an affair with the govenor. The wife took to the sword and demanded the private get a promotion. The govenor said he would promote him, if she did not tell anybody about his advances and spare his life. She promised she would. He kept his his promiss and promoted him, just not to an officer. Or that is all just rumors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheLegoDr Posted October 10, 2014 Now why can't she wear a dress and still be a fighter? She has pants here, but if we are going to expand this feminism idea, she should have a dress and a sword! At least my daughter would like that. She hates wearing pants, but she is a fighter. Archery at age 5 isn't odd is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolonialbeamter Posted October 11, 2014 Archery at age 5 isn't odd is it? Hehe... no, nothing to worry there... I'd start worrying if she wanted to live in the woods with a fellowship of vigilantes... but hopefully you have some more years before that wish comes up... and to be honest it wouldn't have to be a bad thing per se... About that dress/pants issue... isn't she wearing a dress? To me it looks like one, or some sort of robe. Thing with LEGO 'dresses' is the utterly inflexible slope piece. I like the solution TLC has come up with (if they purposefully put a thought into this), minifig legs could represent a pair of tights or whatnot. So she'd be wearing a dress but still be able to fight in LEGO terms. On topic: I agree to declaring him some sort of NCO. And since he sticks out, he might become a playable personal hero for many kids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skro Posted October 12, 2014 (considering that the girl doesn't look like very in distress on the box art, let's consider the case closed and move on to the main point) So what rank can have a soldier with white epaulettes and no shako? Why not simply sargeant or corporal? It's not like it would be some kind of mexican army with only colonels and soldiers... Oh wait, it could... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMP Posted October 12, 2014 About that dress/pants issue... isn't she wearing a dress? To me it looks like one, or some sort of robe. Thing with LEGO 'dresses' is the utterly inflexible slope piece. I like the solution TLC has come up with (if they purposefully put a thought into this), minifig legs could represent a pair of tights or whatnot. So she'd be wearing a dress but still be able to fight in LEGO terms. It's evident in a lot of other figs recently, including male ones, thus I think it represents a long coat or jacket. I'd assume it's the same reasoning here, I doubt they're phasing out the use of the slope piece as a dress. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matthias Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Now we have the answers. The women is the Governors daughter (not Camilla or a female Soldier) and we know the Rank of the strange Soldier (Sergant) http://www.lego.com/...ates/characters See also : http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=50788 Edited January 14, 2015 by Matthias Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
