193 replies to this topic

[TrumpetKing]

Excuse me Jean, how did I "muck things up"? And how is that uncharacteristic? And it definitely wasn't obviously hypothetical, considering a great deal of the people here seemed to have agreed with my statement.

[badboytje88]

I too vote: Jean(Endgame)

for the same reasons as I mentioned before.

[Zakura]

I shall vote Jean(Endgame) because his accustaions seem to be changing quite a bit.

[Endgame]

I unvoted him due to the fact I am not sure who my vote is currently more worthy of.

Anger does not disqualify me from thought. It started like that, yes - I was reasonably baffled and irritated why someone would randomly attack me like that. But I Thought Ian was the best target at the time.

Isaac, you switched your vote just because I wasn't speedy enough to reply. I sleep too. it isn't like a janitor to "muck things up", or in others words muddy them and make them unclear and confusing. A pun on my part.

A lot of the apparent suspicion has so far been caused by that infamous quote. I clearly outlined the fact I thought Ian was scummy throughout the entire post. Therefore "a scum would never try to lynch their own" stemmed from the fact that

A) I am townie

B) I did (and still am) thought Ian was fairly scummy.

Therefore, it was simple deduction on my part. Are analogies and metaphors scummy too?

zakura, on 27 September 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

I shall vote Jean(Endgame) because his accustaions seem to be changing quite a bit.

...How so?

If you are talking about unvoting Ian, that is mainly due to the fact I'm not sure who to vote for currently: the lawyer or the janitor.

[TrumpetKing]

I apologize for not listening to you earlier. That was wrong of me. However, your explanation makes no sense, so my vote will not be changed, Jean.

[Endgame]

TrumpetKing67, on 28 September 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

I apologize for not listening to you earlier. That was wrong of me. However, your explanation makes no sense, so my vote will not be changed, Jean.

Could you please explain how, and perhaps I could ease your concerns?

If you are still talking about that one specific line, I'm not sure what else you want.  

[Ferrik]

Tazmaniac, on 27 September 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

I thought I made it pretty clear that all I did was throw a vote out there and see what reactions I'd get, and as our friend with the great hair (Adam) pointed out, a very jumpy Jean was all to ready to vote against me rather then keep his cool and dismiss my false claims.
When I first started the voting we had nothing to go on, nothing, I think the reactions from you lot and the direction questioning has taken has my kick start to thank, It might not seem like the nice guy thing to do but I wanted answers and I wasn't going to get anything without some prodding.

Bad form? maybe
Scummy? No

That's all you needed to say Ian in defense of yourself...    If you continued just saying that you weren't part of the mafia, that would not change our views of you one bit.

Endgame, on 27 September 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

A very nice case? Let us go over the timeline a bit.

Any other questions?

To me it just seems like your part of the mafia and your reactions to Ian's accusations are because of fear or nervousness.
That's why I'll vote.

Vote: Jean (Endgame)

So now that's 6 votes for Jean and 1 vote for Ian... Do you have anything more to say for yourself, Jean?  

[TrumpetKing]

Ferrik, on 28 September 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

That's all you needed to say Ian in defense of yourself...    If you continued just saying that you weren't part of the mafia, that would not change our views of you one bit.




To me it just seems like your part of the mafia and your reactions to Ian's accusations are because of fear or nervousness.
That's why I'll vote.

Vote: Jean (Endgame)

So now that's 6 votes for Jean and 1 vote for Ian... Do you have anything more to say for yourself, Jean?  

Actually, Ian doesn't have a vote, I do. As for Jean, I'm sorry, but the way you keep trying to explain that quote that is supposedly hypothetical just isn't working for me.

[Ferrik]

TrumpetKing67, on 28 September 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Actually, Ian doesn't have a vote, I do. As for Jean, I'm sorry, but the way you keep trying to explain that quote that is supposedly hypothetical just isn't working for me.

Yeah, sorry. I meant Isaac.

[Zakura]

b]Vote:Jean(Endgame)[/b for my belief that he could be a mafiaso.

[PsyKater]

Try again, jumping on the bandwagon voting, Zachary!

Nothing else to say?

[TrumpetKing]

PsyKater, on 28 September 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

Try again, jumping on the bandwagon voting, Zachary!

Nothing else to say?

How is he jumping on the bandwagon? He explained his vote, he isn't voting for him because everyone else is.

[JaseTJ]

I'm going to Vote: Jean (Endgame), because I think he's the only one who we have any reason to believe is mafia at this point, and we're starting to run out of time on our lynch, which as several of you have pointed out and I think we can all agree on, we need to utilize.

[Adam]

Gary Jr., stay away from the bum, his beard looks smelly.

I want to preface my thoughts with the statement that I understand the importance of the lynch. However, I cannot in good conscience vote for Jean.

Is he suspicious? Definitely; I would say that everyone involved in this argument (mainly Jean, Ian, and Isaac) is suspicious. It is only the first day and we should presumably have nothing to lunch over, so any argument like this is cause for concern. Was Jean a bit brash in auto-voting Ian? Perhaps. Is he being defensive? Of course. But why shouldn't he be defensive?

He is being accused by a good third of the people in this office; he has to be defensive. He has laid out a number of points in his defense and they largely seem valid.
Ian had absolutely no evidence when he first voted for Jean. If someone voted for me for no rhyme or reason, I would probably suspect my accuser. So I can understand Jean's vote and his jumpiness.

However, this is not to say that I think Jean is innocent or that I am condemning Ian. As the later said after the start of the feud, he was probing for reactions, which is all we can really do on the first day, right?

However, what really irks me is the fact that I think some element of this argument is made up, a theory brought up by several before me. First of all, the primary basis for Jean's current lynch is his remark about a scum not pointing a finger at one of his own. This led many to believe that Jean and Ian were staging a fight as a meat shield gambit. However, if this quote from Jean is the main reason behind your vote, then doesn't it follow that if you suspect Jean then you must also suspect Ian?
Another wrinkle in this theory is Isaac's vote. He popped in to vote for Ian just after the argument began and then randomly changed his vote to Jean. I can't shake the feeling that a townie wouldn't use his or her vote so purposefully. In any event, I've got my eye on you, and so does Gary Jr.!

There you have it. Before I go to help Gary Jr., who's gone all limp - help him by changing his batteries - I'd like to compliment Andrea on having some very good ideas and on making some logical points.

[PsyKater]

TrumpetKing67, on 28 September 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

How is he jumping on the bandwagon? He explained his vote, he isn't voting for him because everyone else is.

It seems too little for me. So yes that would make him jumping in a bandwagon.

While I am not 100% sure about Jean, I will check my notes as soon as I find them. I come back soon.

[Rick]

Vote Tally

Isaac (TrumpetKing67): 1 vote (TheBoyWonder)

Jean (Endgame): 7 votes (TrumpetKing67, Scorpiox, Masked Builder, DarthPotato, badboytje88, Ferrik, JaseTJ)


With 16 players, 9 votes are needed for a majority.

13 Hours and 15 minutes remain in Day 1

[TrumpetKing]

Adam, on 28 September 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

Another wrinkle in this theory is Isaac's vote. He popped in to vote for Ian just after the argument began and then randomly changed his vote to Jean. I can't shake the feeling that a townie wouldn't use his or her vote so purposefully. In any event, I've got my eye on you, and so does Gary Jr.!

I didn't randomly change my vote. I took a further analysis of the posts and changed my mind, as I have stated. My original vote for Ian was due to he seemed to just have a bit randomness in suddenly voting for Jean

[Ferrik]

Adam, on 28 September 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

Was Jean a bit brash in auto-voting Ian? Perhaps. Is he being defensive? Of course. But why shouldn't he be defensive?

But at first it was only Ian who was really accusing Jean. Jean still shouldn't have been so jumpy and instead just have explained everything clearly...

[DarthPotato]

At the moment I still stand by my vote. Also, I think we really should be using this lynch wisely. If we don't lynch anyone today then it will be a terrible start for us.

[Adam]

Ferrik, on 28 September 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

But at first it was only Ian who was really accusing Jean. Jean still shouldn't have been so jumpy and instead just have explained everything clearly...

I agree completely. Jean was acting weirdly at first. My argument is that Ian was as well. He then proceeded to make clear explanations, and was accepted as innocent by most. But when Jean made some clear explanations, people still voted for him. I merely think there is a discrepancy there because from where I stand, Ian's defenses and Jean's defenses are of equal strength.

Furthermore, I stand by my point about the scum vs. scum quote/meat shield idea. My real question is why people are looking almost exclusively at Jean when we should be looking at both Jean and Ian.

[TrumpetKing]

PsyKater, on 28 September 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

It seems too little for me. So yes that would make him jumping in a bandwagon.

While I am not 100% sure about Jean, I will check my notes as soon as I find them. I come back soon.

What I find unsettling is that you are quite hesitant on voting for Jean. If he is lunches, and ends up as acumen, can we trust you?

[Adam]

TrumpetKing67, on 28 September 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

What I find unsettling is that you are quite hesitant on voting for Jean. If he is lunches, and ends up as acumen, can we trust you?

And if he lunches? And has acumen? What, he will be a hungry person capable of making good decisions?

[TrumpetKing]

Adam, on 28 September 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

And if he lunches? And has acumen? What, he will be a hungry person capable of making good decisions?

Sorry, autocorrect My mind blanked out. I meant to say if he is lynched, and ends up as scum.

[Tazmaniac]

Ok I'm starting to get a little worried here, If Jean does get voted out and turns out to be scum, peoples theories about a staged fight would put me in with the scum, if he's a townie I look like the scum that started the whole "don't trust Jean" movement....So while trying to give us a bit of a head start and some insight into some of the suspects I may have inadvertently painted myself as the baddy.

And from what was really nothing we now have 7 votes against Jean.... it all seems very suspicious.

[PsyKater]

So, now I got a chance to look into my notes and I try to lay out my thoughts properly.

Isaac (TrumpetKing67), on 28 September 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

What I find unsettling is that you are quite hesitant on voting for Jean. If he is lunches, and ends up as acumen, can we trust you?

At first I want to mention that I am aware of the problem of my situation.
possibilities:

• I do not vote for Jean, but he is convicted and turns out as scum - this will make me appear scum.
  
• I vote for Jean after the majority is already reached. This will make me look like jumping on the bandwagon and throwing my vote in lately as if I would not want to be responsible for the death of a scum mate
  
• I vote early despite my doubts and Jean turns out to be Town. I could have done better when I would have thought about it.

A majority is needed to vote someone to interrogation and as soon the majority is reached, everything is done. So I do not want to make this case closed before I have thought about everything. When at the end of the day one vote was missing for a majority and I find the person suspicios then I will definitely vote for him. So I will definitely vote for Jean when there are 8 votes for him this evening.

Just as a side note: What I find unsettling is that just the most suspicious person (to me) in this room tries to create doubts about me.

Adam, on 28 September 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

Gary Jr., stay away from the bum, his beard looks smelly.

I want to preface my thoughts with the statement that I understand the importance of the lynch. However, I cannot in good conscience vote for Jean.

Is he suspicious? Definitely; I would say that everyone involved in this argument (mainly Jean, Ian, and Isaac) is suspicious. It is only the first day and we should presumably have nothing to lunch over, so any argument like this is cause for concern. Was Jean a bit brash in auto-voting Ian? Perhaps. Is he being defensive? Of course. But why shouldn't he be defensive?

He is being accused by a good third of the people in this office; he has to be defensive. He has laid out a number of points in his defense and they largely seem valid.
Ian had absolutely no evidence when he first voted for Jean. If someone voted for me for no rhyme or reason, I would probably suspect my accuser. So I can understand Jean's vote and his jumpiness.

However, this is not to say that I think Jean is innocent or that I am condemning Ian. As the later said after the start of the feud, he was probing for reactions, which is all we can really do on the first day, right?

However, what really irks me is the fact that I think some element of this argument is made up, a theory brought up by several before me. First of all, the primary basis for Jean's current lynch is his remark about a scum not pointing a finger at one of his own. This led many to believe that Jean and Ian were staging a fight as a meat shield gambit. However, if this quote from Jean is the main reason behind your vote, then doesn't it follow that if you suspect Jean then you must also suspect Ian?
Another wrinkle in this theory is Isaac's vote. He popped in to vote for Ian just after the argument began and then randomly changed his vote to Jean. I can't shake the feeling that a townie wouldn't use his or her vote so purposefully. In any event, I've got my eye on you, and so does Gary Jr.!

I can sign nearly every single point of your statement. I am not sure about Jean as well. But I was not sure why, so I looked at my notes, where I wrote up what everyone said and found the point I was looking for. Just as Jean and Ian first met they said:

Jean (Endgame), on 26 September 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

"You can't really do all your lawyerin' thingamadoohickeys in this building. Most of us probably won't be getting outta here. The "interrogation" sounds... bad. "

Ian (Tazmaniac), on 26 September 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

It's only bad if you have something to hide, care to share Mr Jean, if that is your real name!

Jean (Endgame), on 26 September 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

"I'm not hiding anything, Mr. Lawyer. I've seen these shticks before on the telly. It is almost inevitable that a poor soul is gunna get sent to their grave via interrogation or Mavisoi despite being an innocent person.

I have nothing to hide, except my mouth. Which is currently under my beard.

Gotta shave."

Jean does metagaming makes a statement about the profession of Ian and the game mechanics the interrogation. Ian immediately goes into this point and tries to get this into a scummy light. Very aggressive for a first meeting. After that I expected Jean to accuse Ian as soon as voting starts off, but Jean accused someone else. Immediately after that Ian accuses Jean which looked to me like he was bandwagoning him. Jean was the first one who got on Ian's crosshair and now he seemed to try to get him done. This situation made me think that Ian could be scum. And that is the reason for my doubts about voting Jean.

But why didn't Jean come up with this himself? This would have make me thinking about voting for someone else like Ian or Isaac or even another one. This now raises my suspicions about Jean again...    

I have to think about this a bit longer. It is easy to hide behind an easy vote, everyone is voting for. Many people here voted for Jean without revealing so much thoughts about it. This is the place scum can hide.
So despite the difficulties with my possibilities mentioned above, I will vote for someone else for now while I promise that it will not be my vote that is missing to "lynch" someone tonight. I know this still does not clarify me of being town, but it is an offer. And I think it is more honest than just voting for someone as everyone else does.

Looking at my notes and hearing at my gut, I have to choose between these persons:
My mind tells me to vote for Isaac as everything he does is scummy. (or Jean or Ian)
My gut tells me to vote for Amelia or Zachary as they do not say a lot. And Amelia had an very early vote which did not seem to be meant just to get responses.

So for now I will
Vote Amelia (TheBoyWonder)

badboytje88, on 27 September 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

I think I love you  

Adam, on 28 September 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

Before I go to help Gary Jr., who's gone all limp - help him by changing his batteries - I'd like to compliment Andrea on having some very good ideas and on making some logical points.

So much love from so handsome and strong guys.    May I touch your muscles, boys?  

Just in case our Chiefs love points:

Vote: Amelia (TheBoyWonder)