[KEY TOPIC] LDD 4 Bugs and brick errors

[Aanchir]

Well, it will fit into the hole in the the most important direction. But you are right, there is a bug with this when trying to put in in with the stud direction first. It has been reported a long time ago, but from what I understand it's not that easy to fix because of how the stud is placed on at the end this element.

BTW, how common is the connection where the stud end goes into a technical hole? Are there any more examples then the Volcano Base?

Well, I can verify it appears in set 5985 Space Police Central (this year), set 5973 Hyperspeed Pursuit (last year), and several Exo-Force sets (several years back). Needless to say, it's a very frequently-used connection.

[prateek]

It seems that with LDD 4.0 I'm getting the Script Error much more frequently than with the old version

Edited November 5, 2010 by prateek

[ghyde]

OK, I see it. Thanks to you both

Further to this particular bug, I noticed that when I selected it with the Hinge tool, the green rotation arrows are offset in the wrong spot whenever you place this part on an axle, and the rotation offset arrows do not reset to the position of the actual part being rotated. I did notice that LDD moved the rotation arrows a lot closer to the part when the part was placed on various positions on the axle, as if it didn't know for sure where they went - I've never seen behaviour like this in a program! I don't know why it does this but I would consider this a rather big bug!

Please see the screenshot below for an example of what I mean by arrows offset in the wrong position (the Mindstorms model you can see a small part of is just a default model that I loaded to get the palette which this part exists in):

Edited November 5, 2010 by ghyde

[BrickWild]

In DBM mode, everytime when I click on the Catamaran model, it only gives me the yellow buggy!

[Superkalle]

I've experienced this in a lot of recent sets too, but I don't remember any specific sets. All I know is that they are recent

Well, I can verify it appears in set 5985 Space Police Central (this year), set 5973 Hyperspeed Pursuit (last year), and several Exo-Force sets (several years back). Needless to say, it's a very frequently-used connection.

Thanks guys

In DBM mode, everytime when I click on the Catamaran model, it only gives me the yellow buggy!

Love those kind of bugs. They are so obvious and undisputable

Great spotting!

And the bug is kind of funny actually. Couln't TLG completely mix up the models so when kids click a car, they get a flower. Or a boat and they get a car. That would really create some commotion :-)

[ghyde]

Love those kind of bugs. They are so obvious and undisputable

Great spotting!

I notice that there seem to be minor errors or omissions in the models that they provide. For instance in the Space Probe module, they appear to have missed the placement of a 1x1 brick with studs on four sides (4733) that would otherwise have attached four assemblies consisting of 2 1x1 rounds stacked underneath a transparent red 2x2 round radar dish part to the main model.

Let's hope there aren't more serious errors or omissions in any of the models!

[Aanchir]

The bat (30103) still does not have a hole to allow a bar to fit into its underside.

The minifig torso with robot arm (part 63208) still does not allow a robot hand (48729) or other accessory to be inserted past the stud.

The ball socket with click hinge (30396) will not allow parts with ball joints like the hook (30395) to be attached. This is peculiar because it recognizes that a connection should be possible, but there is a collision error making such placement impossible.

The technic pin joiner (62462) cannot attach to the studs of a 2x3 plate (3021). This is peculiar as it can attach just fine to a 1x1 plate's studs.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Superkalle

[Superkalle]

UPDATE: All bugs reported so far has been repoted to TGL.

And keep up the good work - the bugs you find seems to be gradually fixed (as we can see in 4.0).

[Aanchir]

The panel piece 44572 does not center correctly on a hinge piece like 44822. You should be able to put two of the hinge pieces with a 2x4 plate between them, and have the panel pieces meet up in the center, but with the current render of 44572 there is an obnoxious collision error preventing this and many other basic uses of the piece.

Piece 47755 cannot attach to the mini-sub the way it should in set 8636 Deep Sea Quest due to what seems to be a boundary error with part 3475.

Also see my LXF file here to see the error for yourself and perhaps evaluate whether part 3475 is to blame.

EDIT: One bug from 7160 Drop Ship. The 5x7 panel (64680) has a render/collision error that prevents Technic pins from being attached to one of its pin holes-- specifically, the one that faces inward from the outer face of the panel.

Also, the flame piece 87957 cannot fit correctly into any of the "back slots" of the Lava Monster body 87959. Since this is the only use of that flame piece, it's pretty egregious.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Aanchir

[ILikePi]

Here's a weird paint bug I just found (not sure if it was already there or already reported - sorry if it was):

There's two paintable stripes (if you paint one both get painted, though) on this piece, even though there's nothing like that in real life.

[pbk420]

Here's a weird paint bug I just found (not sure if it was already there or already reported - sorry if it was):

There's two paintable stripes (if you paint one both get painted, though) on this piece, even though there's nothing like that in real life.

It has been brought up and its for decorating a R2-D2 head least thats what it looks like to me.

[Aanchir]

Here's a weird paint bug I just found (not sure if it was already there or already reported - sorry if it was):

There's two paintable stripes (if you paint one both get painted, though) on this piece, even though there's nothing like that in real life.

I saw that, and I think the reason for that bug (as well as the painting bug on 1x1 plates and 1x2 slopes) is that a decoration surface was (either by mistake or on purpose) also programmed as a painting surface. If you unzip an LDD file containing the dome, it will contain just as many decoration surfaces as painting surfaces (there's actually five of each: I suppose two of the painting surfaces just aren't visible).

The reason for so many decoration surfaces is of course for the Star Wars Astromech Droids (R2-D2 and the like) and various other printed domes. It's the same way minifig heads have three decoration surfaces: one on top, one on the front, and one on the back.

This is just my guess, considering that all the painting surfaces correspond to decoration surfaces. I could be wrong, and it may be intentional, but I wouldn't really expect that.

[yellost]

While doing the 10200 custom cars set, I noticed that a technic axle cannot be rotated 360°.

It goes from 0° to 9° then get stuck and there's no way to move it between 9° and 28°. From 28° to 62°, no problem, then stuck again between 62° and 81°, turns again ok between 81° and 99°, stuck between 99° and 118°, turns ok again between 118° and 152°, not between 152° and 171°, ok between 171° and 180° and the same goes with the minus values (from 0° to -9°, then from -28° to -62° etc...)

technic pins don't have that problem, though.

I did the test with just an axle in a 1x2 technic brick with one hole.

I hope the way I wrote it is clear enough...

[roamingstop]

Not sure if it was listed earlier - the Round plate Theta=64 x 9.6 (used e.g. in 10016 train tanker) still does not attach to round plates - it needs to be guided into place using an axle and even then does not fit properly.

[Superkalle]

Not sure if it was listed earlier - the Round plate Theta=64 x 9.6 (used e.g. in 10016 train tanker) still does not attach to round plates - it needs to be guided into place using an axle and even then does not fit properly.

That is an interesting one. I assume you mean that a 6961 cannot attach to four 30565 placed as a circle? I wonder if this is a brick bug or not? Because for it to work, LDD would have to know when four 30565 have been placed, and only then allow connectivity, and I don't think LDD at the moment has conditional connectivity.

[Aanchir]

The stud on the dome piece 30251 cannot attach to a Technic hole. In all honesty, I've found a lot of connectivity errors with stud-to-Technic-hole connections, and there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern. Best I can figure is that those sort of connections have to be programmed in specially because they're not legal in situations where the part is being connected by more than one stud. However, what this means is that you can rarely connect anything to a Technic hole unless it's a generic 1x1 brick or plate, round or square. Even parts like 2x2 domes and cones that only have one stud typically cannot attach to Technic holes. It's very annoying.

[XimenaPaulina]

This is the first time I'll report a bug, I don't know if this has been reported before, so forgive me if it was.

This one is rather simple, but really 'bugs' me (no pun intended). The blue chair of the 8402 Sports Car cannot be connected to the 2x2 space inside, whereas the instructions show that it can.

Here's the LXF if you want to check it out.

Edited November 13, 2010 by KielDaMan

[XimenaPaulina]

Another bug I experienced when I was doing Set 7738: 61483 piece cannot be connected in the hole in the underside of the helicopter, but the instructions clearly states it can.

[Brickdoctor]

This is the first time I'll report a bug, I don't know if this has been reported before, so forgive me if it was.

This one is rather simple, but really 'bugs' me (no pun intended). The blue chair of the 8402 Sports Car cannot be connected to the 2x2 space inside, whereas the instructions show that it can.

[snip]

Here's the LXF if you want to check it out.

TLG actually tells you to place that there? Physically, shouldn't that be impossible since the seat is angled slightly backwards?

EDIT: Found the problem:

The real set 8402 uses this real piece, 52036.

The physical 52036 slopes outward slightly from the dip, allowing a seat to be placed inside. However, the virtual 52036 used by LDD was modeled without those slopes, so there's a collision between it and the seat:

Edited November 13, 2010 by Brickdoctor

[prateek]

TLG actually tells you to place that there? Physically, shouldn't that be impossible since the seat is angled slightly backwards?

It is in the instructions, but when you build it, it feels awkward.

[Superkalle]

The stud on the dome piece 30251 cannot attach to a Technic hole. In all honesty, I've found a lot of connectivity errors with . Best I can figure is that those sort of connections have to be programmed in specially because they're not legal in situations where the part is being connected by more than one stud.

From what I've been told, that's exactly how it is.

And also connecting studs to a technic hole seems to be a bit of a general "legal/illegal" problem . Hopefully in the future there will be a major overhaul by DesignLab of the rules that govern this.

EDIT: Found the problem: The physical 52036 slopes outward slightly from the dip, allowing a seat to be placed inside. However, the virtual 52036 used by LDD was modeled without those slopes, so there's a collision between it and the seat:

Very well spotted, doc.

[behess]

Hello,

it seems that all technic holes cannot be connected to side knobs.

I think it is the bug you talk about ?

[Aanchir]

Hello,

it seems that all technic holes cannot be connected to side knobs.

I think it is the bug you talk about ?

That's one aspect of it, yeah, although it doesn't apply only to side knobs-- there are plenty of regular studs-on-top bricks that should connect and don't.

Your very last image is pretty much the reason this bug is here: that's one connection that's technically "illegal"-- that is to say, it should be avoided in official sets. Of course, that doesn't stop it from appearing in some sets, such as those in the Exo-Force theme (which was rather laden with illegal connections and brick stress much of the time) Of course, all of those images are illegal for a different reason if you were to try placing bricks on top of or underneath the two connected pieces. You can see the reasoning behind this in this PDF.

[behess]

That's one aspect of it, yeah, although it doesn't apply only to side knobs-- there are plenty of regular studs-on-top bricks that should connect and don't.

Your very last image is pretty much the reason this bug is here: that's one connection that's technically "illegal"-- that is to say, it should be avoided in official sets. Of course, that doesn't stop it from appearing in some sets, such as those in the Exo-Force theme (which was rather laden with illegal connections and brick stress much of the time) Of course, all of those images are illegal for a different reason if you were to try placing bricks on top of or underneath the two connected pieces. You can see the reasoning behind this in this PDF.

Good doc !

Some MOC are so illegal by this doc ;)

By the way, in reality, we are all stressing LEGO bricks because it let us more combinations.

However I understand now the reason of some illegal combinations. Thanks a lot !

Is there a place where all LEGO rules and specifications are gathered together ?

[obey]

I am not sure this has been reported but neither of the two chain links can be connected to any type of gears.