TRAIN TECH Help, General Questions & Talk to the Staff

[Electricsteam]

I responded to this a few days ago but looks like the forum trouble removed the newer material. I moved most of the topics to the pinned topic - rarely did anyone post to it. It's funny that it's received more action as an unpinned topic, but most because of the discontinuation discussion.

Something new I just started in the last few months, but it means that I've added a thumbnail image of the MOC in the Train Tech MOC Index with a link to the topic. Visit the MOC Index and it will make sense - just about all MOCs have been indexed in 2012.

EDIT: I don't usually index WIP MOCs and never index LDD MOCs. If your title is ambiguous (meaning that it does not say MOC or it's unclear that the topic is about sharing a picture of the MOC - sometimes more to discuss a building technique), it may not get indexed. If it is clearly a MOC and MOC is missing from the title, I will add "MOC:" to the title and index. Oh, and I don't index MODs nor do I do windows.

Doesn't that mean you need to Index my 2-4-0 ES co. Steam Locomotive

[WesternOutlaw]

Doesn't that mean you need to Index my 2-4-0 ES co. Steam Locomotive

I suppose.

But first you need to add/fix your avatar.

Edit: Indexed

[zephyr1934]

I responded to this a few days ago but looks like the forum trouble removed the newer material. I moved most of the topics to the pinned topic - rarely did anyone post to it. It's funny that it's received more action as an unpinned topic, but most because of the discontinuation discussion.

We live in a strange world.

Something new I just started in the last few months, but it means that I've added a thumbnail image of the MOC in the Train Tech MOC Index with a link to the topic. Visit the MOC Index and it will make sense - just about all MOCs have been indexed in 2012.

Nudge nudge

[WesternOutlaw]

Nudge nudge

Okay, okay, help me with these by labeling your topic with a "MOC" in the title. Always helps.

Indexed.

[zephyr1934]

Muchas gracias, and will do with "MOC" in the future. The index is a very handy tool for pulling MOCs from the past.

[Murdoch17]

I've got a Big Ben Bricks wheel question:

I'm building a 0-6-0 locomotive in LDD. As I can't put BBB medium sized wheels in LEGO Digital Designer, I need to know if those wheels are the same size as this wheel. http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=55423 If there is a diffrence in size, can some one who has BBB wheels in that size post a picture of how to make those wheels fit on this engine in a flanged-blind-flanged formation?

Here is the loco I'm working on:

Edited December 31, 2012 by Murdoch17

[Electricsteam]

I've got a Big Ben Bricks wheel question:

I'm building a 0-6-0 locomotive in LDD. As I can't put BBB medium sized wheels in LEGO Digital Designer, I need to know if those wheels are the same size as this wheel. http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=55423 If there is a diffrence in size, can some one who has BBB wheels in that size post a picture of how to make those wheels fit on this engine in a flanged-blind-flanged formation?

Here is the loco I'm working on:

I am going with no.... look at the chart on BBB

[Duq]

No, those wheels are the same size as the BBB small wheels; 24mm. That is, the flange diameter is 24mm.

Medium wheels are 24mm with a 30mm flange.

You can download LCad/MLCad for free by the way, and BBB wheels are available for LDraw.

[Daedalus304]

The wheels you linked to are the same size as BBB's small driver. My baldwin 2-6-6-2 uses the medium drivers, and I designed it using entirely LDD.

The flangeless/blind medium BBB drivers are almost exactly the same diameter as the Technic Pulley, the one with a cross axle hole the the center surrounded by 6 round holes. For the flanged wheels, I used the same pulley but added the traction band onto it. That's still a wee bit too small, but if you allow a half-studs worth of room around the pulley you should be good. Just think: 3 studs clearance for flangless, 4 studs clearance for flanged, and you should be safe. :)

EDIT: if you are willing to wait until the weekend I can throw together and LDD file with the axles spaced as you need them. It does require a half stud offset for the connecting rods, so be sure to get some from Zephyr for a fantastic look and reliable running. As someone who has experimented with just about every option for this wheelbase, there is no substitute for those custom rods!!!

Edited January 1, 2013 by Daedalus304

[Gorki247]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum but not Lego. I've been on a break for a few years but decided to get back into the game and spent the last week rebuilding all my train sets and reading up on developments in the world of Lego Trains. I already ordered a few new sets to make up for lost time.

The biggest surprise was the discontinuation of the 9V system and the move to the new PF system. I think I pretty much got to grips with the new system but do have one question that I hope you can help me with. As I understand it, one PF controller can accomodate up to 8 trains? What happens when someone has more than 8 trains? Do you just get another controller? Won't these channels interfere with those of the first controller?

Edited January 2, 2013 by Gorki247

[English Electric]

As I understand it, one PF controller can accomodate up to 8 trains?

Correct

What happens when someone has more than 8 trains? Do you just get another controller? Won't these channels interfere with those of the first controller?

You cannot independently run more than 8 trains as all of the controllers are the same, therefore running more than 8 will result in trains clashing on the same IR channel. This gets worse if you decide to add PF lights as they take up the second channel, unless of course you plug them on to the same channel as the motor but then they will only work when the train is moving.

Edited January 2, 2013 by English Electric

[Gorki247]

You cannot independently run more than 8 trains as all of the controllers are the same, therefore running more than 8 will result in trains clashing on the same IR channel. This gets worse if you decide to add PF lights as they take up the second channel, unless of course you plug them on to the same channel as the motor but then they will only work when the train is moving.

Thanks. I suspected that would be the case. Sounds like it'll be a case of leaving some of my trains on 9V then. Luckily I do have a decent amount of 9V tracks and I can always include PF only loops in my setup. I wonder if there will be a solution from TLG in the future; they must realise people's collection will grow over time (unless they replace it with another new system in a few years ).

[peterab]

I wonder if there will be a solution from TLG in the future; they must realise people's collection will grow over time (unless they replace it with another new system in a few years ).

I'm pretty sure the tech spec for the receiver includes an extra address bit potentially allowing for 16 independent trains, but I'm not sure anyone has hacked around with it yet. Even on club layouts it's pretty hard to control eight trains at the same time so I'm not sure anyone has really felt the need so far. My club runs a mix of 9V and PF and we just try to make sure the running PF trains are set to different channels, and the ones in the yard are turned off.

You could try in the technic forum if you want further details on the extra address bit.

Edited January 2, 2013 by peterab

[pinioncorp]

From memory, the extra addresses in the alternate mode do not accommodate all functions (the stop button being one). An official set will never need so many so they'll never introduce more frequencies (us AFOLs have to beg to get the basics!) Eight trains is a lot to control at once so simply removing the receiver and changing it as necessary is the best option.

[Gorki247]

Thanks guys. I know that I'll never be running 8 trains at once so it was probably more a theoretical question.

I've got another one if you don't mind. Can you use a 9v wheelbase with a PF battery and receiver or does it need to be a PF wheelbase? And if you can, is it safe to run a train like this on a 9v powered rail? It seems to me that the motor would get power from the rail and battery at the same time, possibly harming the motor or battery? Or have I got that wrong

[Murdoch17]

@ Daedalus304: Yes, a LDD file showing the placement of the BBB wheels would be most helpful! Thanks for offering to do it!

Edited January 2, 2013 by Murdoch17

[Electricsteam]

Has anyone else noticed the large amount of older topics being updated or is it just me.

[peterab]

Thanks guys. I know that I'll never be running 8 trains at once so it was probably more a theoretical question.

I've got another one if you don't mind. Can you use a 9v wheelbase with a PF battery and receiver or does it need to be a PF wheelbase? And if you can, is it safe to run a train like this on a 9v powered rail? It seems to me that the motor would get power from the rail and battery at the same time, possibly harming the motor or battery? Or have I got that wrong

You can use a 9V motor with PF gear provided you can connect it. There is an adaptor cable available I think. Running that set up on 9V rails should be safe enough for the rechargeable battery since it has built in overload protection, but I wouldn't with a normal battery pack, even with rechargeable batteries in it. There's an interesting topic by Toastie here somewhere which discusses using 9V track to continuously charge a PF rechargeable battery, but I seem to remember it involves modifying the motor. I could be mistaken though. Best to read the original. The motor will be fine since it will only draw the current it needs and twice 9V is still 9V in this case. You'd need to be a bit careful about polarity though.

[zephyr1934]

Thanks guys. I know that I'll never be running 8 trains at once so it was probably more a theoretical question.

I've got another one if you don't mind. Can you use a 9v wheelbase with a PF battery and receiver or does it need to be a PF wheelbase? And if you can, is it safe to run a train like this on a 9v powered rail? It seems to me that the motor would get power from the rail and battery at the same time, possibly harming the motor or battery? Or have I got that wrong

As others have said, the frequencies are not unique. The only real concern is that you do not accidentally have two trains powered up on the same frequency. So plan ahead of you are building the IR receivers into your trains or include an access hatch to change the frequency.

Yes, I think you can safely power a 9v motor with a PF battery, but given the cost of the 9v motor compared to a PF motor I'm not sure you'd ever want to. When you do power a 9v motor from PF, any 9v track under it would be energized. I don't think I would attempt to power the motor both from the track and a battery, but...? One interesting thing that this brings about (as I think Steve B. first pointed out) is that you can mix plastic and 9v track to power track side features from the train's battery, e.g., crossing lights or ??? But you do so at the expense of reducing the power to the motor.

Finally, one nice thing about PF is that you don't have to deal with the power drop on long loops of track and you can go slower too. I still like my 9v, but PF has some strong points.

[Daedalus304]

@ Daedalus304: Yes, a LDD file showing the placement of the BBB wheels would be most helpful! Thanks for offering to do it!

Hey! I put together a somewhat comprehensive LXF file for you, using some stand-in BBB medium wheels. Turns out the technic pulleys are right about spot on with the real BBB wheels! Just to be on the safe side, I included two methods of spacing them close together with different offset styles, and I also included a couple basic structures that I tested with real bricks and real BBB Med Drivers to make sure they work. Building in 6 wide is going to leave you with a rather high looking running board, but as the wheels are also exactly 1 brick thick you can build outside them if you so wish. I also included two other structures highlighting the odd build clearances needed with one version of the wheel offset. I hope you find this file helpful!

As you can see, to fit them in the 8-stud wheelbase you need to have your center axle offset from the other two, because of the flanged drivers. Flanged drivers are tricky, but easier to build with when they are on an offset (Offset axles are in green bricks, red bricks are not) because you can build more tightly around them. My Baldwin Mallet engine uses this form of spacing, but it worked well because that engine has no running board the there is some tight piston spacing.

For your tank engine I'd suggest you use the 9-stud wheelbase (The top one). This makes your flanged drivers on "friendly" spacings which are easier to deal with and build around - as so:

With just a mild amount of recolouring you should be able to use the frames from the LXF on your actual engine, as these substitute wheels are extremely close to the real BBB drivers in physical dimensions. I hope this was the information you were looking for, if I missed anything helpful please let me know.

[Murdoch17]

Thanks Daedalus304! This is exactly what I needed. You have made my day.

[Murdoch17]

Ok, I just got my engine built and the wheels kep getting stuck.... they refuse to turn with my drive rod. I've used a 9 stud technic lift arm: no configuration works, they all just throw the center wheel out of postion. I used your first example... which just stressed the liftarm..

Please help?

EDIT: Nevermind, replaced the siderods and BBB wheels with my original design. However, I kept the BBB design put together.... just in case I ever need it .

EDIT #2: Thanks you guys! I have not reinstated the BBB design, albiet modfied just a bit elimnate the 1/2 stud offset. Thanks again!

Edited January 17, 2013 by Murdoch17

[Daedalus304]

It took me a minute to realize what was wrong but I think I know - your driverods are locking up because you're using a technic liftarm. Since your middle wheel is on a half-stud offset it won't line up with the holes on the liftarm.

That doesn't mean there's no options, though. The easiest (and imo best) option is to get some custom drive rods from Zephyr. You can also try using some custom-length flew cable rods (the most difficult option). However, the easiest purist option would be to not connect your driverod to the center wheels. It would be easy to throw some gears in there to make sure the center wheels still spin in synch, though.

[Spitfire2865]

Ok, I just got my engine built and the wheels kep getting stuck.... they refuse to turn with my drive rod. I've used a 9 stud technic lift arm: no configuration works, they all just throw the center wheel out of postion. I used your first example... which just stressed the liftarm..

Please help?

EDIT: Nevermind, replaced the siderods and BBB wheels with my original design. However, I kept the BBB design put together.... just in case I ever need it .

I looked at the spacing of the axles and they are not evenly spaced. There is a 2-1/2 stud gap between the outer and middle axles. The rod will not work with the uneven spacing.

[pizdabolkin]

Just bought our first lego train. and have some remarks/questions. Is it normal that the power of the batteries has so much influence over the performance. Full batteries means derailing when going to fast, a couple of hours later, you can run it full speed (but less battery power). One cool feature I discoverd was that I could program the pf controls in my tv's universal remote control/
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