Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Dannylonglegs]

Druid is hand-downs one of the best classes. I genuinely believe that every party should have one. They can deal with any bad situation. They are by far the most logical leap for healers.

I agree. They are the quintessential healer, being able to not only heal the whole party, but to remove all negative effects as well (and revive the KOed in one fell sweep). They are also well equipped to protect their role as primary healer by avoiding the front row and having a 50% chance of not even being effected by specials. ( ) somehow though, I managed to get KOed twice in two rounds . They have a good amount of HP points and a great ether progression following Cleric. The only thing they don't have is SP ! (I'll work on that.)

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Edited November 19, 2012 by Dannylonglegs

[CMP]

[TheBoyWonder]

I can't wait till 2v2 fights start in the arena. Thothwick and another anti witch VS Atramor and Witch Lycan.

[Flipz]

Really, there's a "natural" AC for each basic Class if you want to keep basically the same party role you've been having all along:

Knight --> Paladin

Cleric --> Druid

Rogue --> Assassin

Ranger --> Evoker/Warden

Mage --> Sage

Barbarian --> Raider

Rangers are a little harder to characterize; on the one hand, they can be incredibly offensively powerful, in which case they'll likely take Evoker, but on the other they can be incredibly defensive, in which case Warden is the better option for them.

I, personally, took Sorcerer for flexibility. (Yes, roleplaying was involved too, but stats are what helped me eliminate some of the other possibilities for Arthur.) Sorcererers can deal full damage from the Back Row, whether with spells or with throwing weapons (and unlike Sages, they CAN attack physically to use special weapon effects), and they can also Flee and dish out status effects, both from normal class rolls and with Scrolls. One of the big plusses for me is that 5 out of the 6 Sorcerer rolls have some sort of advantage--1, 2, and 3 are obvious success rolls, but 4 Confuses the enemy and 5 is a counter-strike skill that somewhat makes up for taking damage in the first place--and unlike the Battle Mage, it takes place on the Damage roll (where you'd be damaged anyway) rather than being a roll that makes the Hero take damage on what would normally have been a Miss. Special Damage is the only roll a Sorcerer can't gain an advantage from, and since their Shield gains Gold they'll want to Nostrum up anyway. The only thing a Sorcerer can't really do on their own is healing, and my Healing Staff simulates that reasonably well.

On the party role scale, Sorcerers are just as awesome; they're simultaneously offensive (elemental spells, status effects) AND defensive (Back Row fighting, SHIELD roll that stuns the enemies). I, personally, have customized my build to take advantage of this; defensively, Arthur's robe provides decent (for a non-Knight) SP AND Sealed-immunity, and added the Healing Staff, which lets Arthur heal himself in a pinch (and act as a secondary healer if the party Clerics are indisposed), while offensively the Ancient Crown and the Lens of Speed-Reading allow Arthur more options and chances to spread devastating statuses to the enemy. (It's interesting that, aside from Free Hit issues, Arthur would stand a fair chance against those two guards in Quest 51 all on his own.) In my opinion, Sorcerers in general and Arthur in particular are ideally suited for side-quests, as their flexibility allows the QM to really mix up the fights in those missions.

And of course, RP-wise Sorcerer was the best choice; when I tried angling him for Mystic Knight, it just didn't work out, so Sorcerer it had to be.

I'd like to add my voice to Corny's. Knights are strangely generally a support class, which is weird because they seem like heavy-hitters at first. Paladins hit enemies 1/3 of the time. They also don't have anything interesting. You don't stun enemies, you don't confuse them, they don't power up through-out a quest... they're really flat... Paladin is the only class I can see Boomingham play as (especially now that Barty is around).

The same is essentially true for the other Knight ACs. Berserker can pack a punch, but likewise only hits 1/2 of the time, and then after they hit an enemy they can't really strategize. Black Knights are slightly more interesting... but getting a good hit costs too much... AND they don't make money, which is the huge appeal of Rogue hybrid classes. We haven't seen too many Mystic Knights... they sort of intrigue me. Those last two aren't Boomingham at all though, so that won't be happening for a while.

Warden is awesome. Also fairly bland, nothing exciting, but super powerful. Backrow, with potential to heal yourself, and still hitting 1/2 of the time, I'm deffers switching to it in the future when it makes sense.

Mystic Knights are really weird--devastating fireballs and Diplomacy are a VERY odd combo. It'll be interesting to see how Cinna develops, since Hoke has been MIA for a few months now. One thing I will say is this: MKs are designed to rely on physical weaponry, since their Enchantment drains their Ether so quickly. They are indeed one of two truly offensively-oriented Knight ACs, and that's why they and Black Knights are strange--Knights are, and have been since the beginning, primarily defensive support classes. That's why Warden and Berserker are a little weird--they take offensive classes (Ranger and Barbarian) and transform them into Knight-like defensive tanks. Paladin is, as many have noted, the true Knight experience--mostly support and defense, little offense. That said, Zeph, Boomers could make some interesting battle choices if he used Scrolls a bit more, and/or if he invested more in weapons that deal effects to enemies. (That Frozen Saber is sadly underused by Boomers, unfortunately, even though it's sort of his trademark. )

[CMP]

Mystic Knights can enchant shields, too, though.

[Brickdoctor]

By the way, if you don't want to change your playing style and you plan to go for Mime, I think Warden's the only class in which the only change to your powers is entirely beneficial. The only power the Ranger has that the Mime doesn't is Aura, and Sentinel is usually just as good or better than Aura, and being part Cleric, the Mime can still heal himself without using Ether by rolling Shield. (you could argue that the Aura can intercept bad effects and Sentinel only prevents Damage, but by the time you get to Mime, you're probably facing enemies powerful enough that you don't want to intercept all the bad effects - and you're part Rogue, so you can always try to get some Gold and buy Elixirs, which become worth buying at the high stats of that high Level)

[Dannylonglegs]

Alright Lycan, how's that for noticing the scar on your face? Is that alright, or do you want me to change it?

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Pyrovisionary]

There should be a Pirate AC Arrrmen to that!.

Funny pirate jokes are funny.

[CMP]

Warden is built around its ability to use the best equipment (ranged weapons and shields) at the same time, so it makes sense Mime's pretty much 100% better.

[Scorpiox]

Warden is built around its ability to use the best equipment (ranged weapons and shields) at the same time, so it makes sense Mime's pretty much 100% better.

Mime is 100% better than almost everything. Haldor will probably take a miss at the expert classes as none of them really appeal to him, but Mime is without a doubt my Master class choice. It just works so perfectly. For regular attacking: Barbarian, for healing teammates: Cleric, for getting rich: Rogue, for defence: Knight. The class matches Haldor's personality of switching between heavy hitting and careful healing brilliantly.

[Flipz]

Dang, 49ers, you finally get a battle and you just can't catch a break!

[Etzel]

The class matches Haldor's personality of switching between heavy hitting and careful healing brilliantly.

Yeah...

[TheBoyWonder]

Hat was perfect Dannylonglegs.

[CMP]

Mime is 100% better than almost everything. Haldor will probably take a miss at the expert classes as none of them really appeal to him, but Mime is without a doubt my Master class choice. It just works so perfectly. For regular attacking: Barbarian, for healing teammates: Cleric, for getting rich: Rogue, for defence: Knight. The class matches Haldor's personality of switching between heavy hitting and careful healing brilliantly.

Well, in a more direct 100% kind of way (as in, literally no reason not to be Mime instead), a lot of classes have perks that can't be used by basic classes, and thus cannot by being a Mime.

[Dannylonglegs]

That was perfect Dannylonglegs.

It's weird how your RP worked really well with mine. It's just a sentence, but it's true to Sylph's character.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[TheBoyWonder]

Druids and Werewolves. Wonder how he will react to Lycans lsatest response.

[Zepher]

With only four entries waiting to be completed for the Dastan Trilogy, I think I can confidently say that a) we killed BY FAR the most NPCs in those quests, and b) the Battle of Drakencourt was the most participated battle for all NPCs. I think at least 20 NPCs were involved in the battle, with only about half escaping with their lives.

[Peppermint_M]

Berserker is a walking all-party mead. That is my only complaint really, I miss the old special of damage to all enemies. Sigh.

[Rumble Strike]

Yes, I nearly picked Raider because it had an AoE shield roll. Hacking down many enemies in one go was a true Barbarian trait as I see it. Feels wrong to give it up.

[JimBee]

My suggestions for Shaman:

*Allow Natural Respite to restore Ether, and retool Meditate into some sort of offensive ability. (Pros: the class will feel MUCH more fitting for a Barbarian, the benefeits MIGHT outweigh the cons of Blood Ritual as-is; Cons: this might OP Battle Mage, Blood Ritual would still be a major turn-off for potential Shamans)

*Re-tool Blood Ritual to have some sort of area-of-effect on enemies. (Pros: again, more Barbarian-like, damage output mostly outweighs the risk to party; Cons: while this balances the poison disadvantage, it makes the issue with undead worse, in a big way)

*Simply make Blood Ritual completely ineffective on undead. (Pros: least amount of change to the class as-is, preserving the flavor while at the same time making the class viable for players again. Cons: Blood Ritual is still the worst of the Cleric AC Shield rolls, Meditate is still somewhat contrary to the idea of a Barbarian.)

*Re-tool Blood Ritual in some other way (my mind keeps coming up with the idea of TRANSFERRING all effects, but I can't figure out why, perhaps I'm too tired right now )

*some combination of the above.

Good points, Flipz. I personally think that the best options would be to not re-tool Meditate, but give the Shaman a different 4 roll (this way other classes aren't affected), and also tweaking the Blood Ritual.

So question of the slightly random time period. What are the advantages and disadvantages you see for the advanced classes. I'd be interested in knowing how they are perceived or evaluated (should you have already chosen one) and why exactly you chose the class you did.

Ooh, good discussion.

I went with Assassin mostly for RPing. It was the only class that fit Hybros at the time. He hadn't evolved much at that point, at least in the sense that pushed him towards another AC. As Flipz said, there are certain ACs that fit with BCs, and as a Rogue, Assassin was the way to go. I originally wanted to go Black Knight for it's power and ability to carry a shield.

However, after playing Assassin for a while, I've really come to love the class (so much so that I've considered passing up both Expert and Master Classes... good thing we can change back at will), and realize it's power. Perhaps it's the weapons and artifacts I have that make it so good for me, but it's really just awesome to play as. I gain large amounts of gold, I can fight from the back row (permanently if I bought a ranged weapon), I have the ability to OHKO, and a 2/3 chance to hit something (plus an AoE shield). I don't even need to fight from the front row, I can just stand in back with a melee weapon if I wanted to focus on assassinating. I really do think it's the most powerful offensive class out of any BC, AC, EC, or MC.

Like I said, it might just be my items and strategy. I have the income to buy infinite potions and nostrums, so I rarely have to worry about losing health. I'm permanently hastened, so that means a greater chance to assassinate something, or if necessary, time to heal myself. I also have the Bladerang, which can take out many enemies at once with OHKO.

So maybe it's not the class itself, but a strategy that one finds that fits in well with the class. I really do love playing Assassin though.

The main disadvantage, and it's a small one, is sometimes having to take big risks when attacking enemies. Assasssins generally have low health, and there are not many SP artifacts available for Rangers and Rogues. With big enemies, Assassins are more likely to get KO'd more than their shield-toting allies, for example in Quest 50. And with enemies that are immune to OHKO, the Assassin becomes considerably less powerful. I was very lucky to not get KOd or eaten in the final battle of Quest 44, and I had to fight from the front row to cause double damage.

For me, I chose Hunter as it fit Skrall's RPing the best, plus the ability to do a ton of damage without having to play elemental rock-paper-scissors was slightly appealing.

Agreed, that's where the Hunter's real advantage lies. You say a Ranger is better than a Hunter, but when we're taking into consideration the amount of damage a Hunter can deal, there's no competition (see Quest 30). Plus, you don't have to get any gems for those multipliers, and you have natural respite.

Paladins are very much a support class and coming from knight gains the ability to heal and adding protection from special effects to the shield. I don't really think I've lost anything.

That being said, I am sometimes disappointed in the lack of offense for paladins. It's great to be able to protect the party but sometimes I really do want to be the one to take down the enemy. Or at least do something other than stand there with my shield in front of me. Or meditate repeatedly. I've thought about changing class a few times to something with more of a punch but I don't think it would make sense for Cronk to be anything but a Paladin right now.

I agree, it was even frustrating for me when I hosted for you in Quest 29, when you were dealing so little damage. I would say though, as others have, that it's meant as more of a support class. I know not everyone likes to play as them, but this is what a Paladin is, and it's very powerful at that.

I chose the Druid path while developing my character and didn't even know what the Druid was at the time. I chose Cleric because of the two classes that made a Druid, Cleric had the least members. Before Heroica, despite my years of playing DnD, I had never played the party healer (generally speaking, I find Clerics boring), so I was a little disappointed when I saw that the Druid was primarily another Healer. I have since embraced it, and I now feel like Druid is one of the best classes out there!

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Druid is hand-downs one of the best classes. I genuinely believe that every party should have one. They can deal with any bad situation. They are by far the most logical leap for healers.

I definitely agree. Danny, it's great to hear that you like you playing the class, because like I said many people prefer offense. Druid is a very powerful weapon, especially if they're permanently lucky like Erdathcath.

Atramor chose Witch for several reasons. The Shield, actually, isn't one of them. Hex isn't really powerful, but the other pros of the class outweigh that more than enough for me. The thing that really pushed me over was the Witch's Talisman. At that point there was only one in the game, and nobody else seemed interested. After seeing how much destruction it could wreak with the Wyvern battle in Quest 14, I figured it was worth the leap. The high HP addition and the ability to heal made it a really self-sustaining class, that was a plus too. Special Mirror I thought would just be a fun little bonus, whereas with the stronger, more complex special skills coming up it's become one of my favorite features.

The only thing I miss from Rogue is the gold.

Interesting. I was just going over the Witch class in my head a few days ago, and I thought it to be one of the weaker classes. The Shield and Special Damage skills are definitely the highlights of it for me, but if you think about it, everything else is lacking. Without the Talisman I wouldn't even consider the class useful. It has a 1/3 chance to deal damage no more powerful than any other class, and at this point in the game poison does very little. And there will be a point where even deadly poison won't do much, which is why I've been an advocate for updated poison/deadly poisons (having them deal a set percent instead of a set amount of damage), but that's another debate.

Another reason I would never go Witch is because why bother with inflicting negative effects when you can just instakill?

By the way, if you don't want to change your playing style and you plan to go for Mime, I think Warden's the only class in which the only change to your powers is entirely beneficial. The only power the Ranger has that the Mime doesn't is Aura, and Sentinel is usually just as good or better than Aura, and being part Cleric, the Mime can still heal himself without using Ether by rolling Shield. (you could argue that the Aura can intercept bad effects and Sentinel only prevents Damage, but by the time you get to Mime, you're probably facing enemies powerful enough that you don't want to intercept all the bad effects - and you're part Rogue, so you can always try to get some Gold and buy Elixirs, which become worth buying at the high stats of that high Level)

We will have to see about that. The Mime will present some very interesting strategies, probably most we haven't thought about yet. I agree, it does have it's disadvantages, but when you consider all the options it has, it can come in handy in any situation.

[The Legonater]

I'm going to be gone Tuesday through Monday, so for the Unlimited Quest I'm handing over control of Dyric to Doc.

See that I get signed up for the Wren quest as well.

[CMP]

Interesting. I was just going over the Witch class in my head a few days ago, and I thought it to be one of the weaker classes. The Shield and Special Damage skills are definitely the highlights of it for me, but if you think about it, everything else is lacking. Without the Talisman I wouldn't even consider the class useful. It has a 1/3 chance to deal damage no more powerful than any other class, and at this point in the game poison does very little. And there will be a point where even deadly poison won't do much, which is why I've been an advocate for updated poison/deadly poisons (having them deal a set percent instead of a set amount of damage), but that's another debate.

Another reason I would never go Witch is because why bother with inflicting negative effects when you can just instakill?

Like I've mentioned to you before, what I love about Witch is that you can do almost anything. Healing and high health bonus allows for limited tanking, poison (while I agree without the Talisman the class is quite underpowered) can really ravage opponents, and Hex is great for keep large groups of enemies occupied. As long as you have the right equipment, it's a very well-rounded class.

I haven't seen one enemy yet immune, specifically, to Badly Posioned, and at least 2 dozen immune to sudden death in Quest 44. Assassins are one of the best AC choices damage-wise, but that's about all they can do.

[JimBee]

Like I've mentioned to you before, what I love about Witch is that you can do almost anything.

You have? I don't remember.

I haven't seen one enemy yet immune, specifically, to Badly Posioned, and at least 2 dozen immune to sudden death in Quest 44. Assassins are one of the best AC choices damage-wise, but that's about all they can do.

You mean OHKO-wise? But what you say is true, when it comes to enemies immune to instakill, Assassins are really just as effective as Rogues. I still gained a lot of gold thanks to the instakill-proof enemies, though, so there's that.

It's good to hear different perspectives on different classes, though. To each his own, at least we are satisfied, mostly, with our class choices.

On the Mystic Knight, which I forgot to bring up before, CallMePie is right, an MK is essentially a melee class because of how Enchantment sucks up so much ether. I had never thought of it that way because Cinna has been the only active Mystic Knight and began as a Mage. There is at least the option to stay in the back row and fling spells, but Enchantment is a good balancing factor that prevents that from taking place forever. As Pandora once said, Mages, in any RPG or fantasy-type game, Mages start as the most powerful offensively, but the weakest defensively. As they advance levels, though, they become more powerful. MK's Enchantment prevents that from going too far, because without it an MK would have the benefits of a Warden - back row with shield - but with bigger damage.

[Masked Builder]

Dang, 49ers, you finally get a battle and you just can't catch a break!

Yeah, it's getting a bit old with Haldor not being able to hurt anything!

[Etzel]

Yeah, it's getting a bit old with Haldor not being able to hurt anything!

Maybe they should revive Alexis so the battle can actually move forward a bit.