Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[UsernameMDM]

Well, Quest 20 is now done! It was originally designed for level 1 players, so I had to tweaked it as we went. I think it went a bit too easy except for the spider.

Here is what the party didn't see:

Treasure map (undamaged): worth 300 gold

Goblin: dropped Thunder Club (WP 5, Lightning)

I'll try to get a self critique soon, but until then I would appreciate some feedback from the players and readers alike.

Thanks!

[Rumble Strike]

Hi there UsernameMDM, thank you for hosting us. I know firsthand how time consuming hosting a Quest can be but felt that we would really have had a better flow to the whole thing if you had been able to post more often to move things along quicker. It really did seem to have a slow pace and that did impact how often people posted.

The earlier enemies were definitely harder than the later ones, which was strange. Whether that was due to initial errors in your enemy levels or player feedback that the spider in particular was too hard, I don't know. It did seem to be a slight anticlimax with just the one Gobbler faced. Like Tanma and others, I thought that there were more to encounter, perhaps it would have worked that this was a baby one and there was an angry momma around too?

I liked your sets and pics, and your text descriptions were good.

Thanks again and I hope these points are taken as constructive criticism.

[Scubacarrot]

Here are my thoughts: First off, thank you very much for hosting!

As Rumble said, It would have been better if you could post more often, the whole thing felt really slow, at times. Which is not great, I think the quest would be much more involving and interesting if the pace was a bit quicker. That ties in with my second point: The whole quest was basically explore-a-maze. Which is fine, for a little bit, but since we had absolutely no clue which way we should go, it was basically guesswork each time. This is definitely a personal thing, though.

I really liked your pictures, they were great, I also liked the battles, although I really urge you to be careful with how you describe the enemy's special abilities, but we have been over that. The difficulty of the enemies, I think, was fine, but we were just very lucky on the last few fights, I think. The battle with the bats was too easy, though. The loot seemed really low for the most part, but I think the rewards we got near the end made up for that, and then some.

As Rumble said, the end was kind of an anticlimax, but perhaps you are planning a sequel? I don't know. Perhaps there could have been an actual bossfight, but if you are indeed thinking about doing another quest with the same theme, I can understand why there was not one.

A last tip: Choose a cleric in the party next time, it allows for much harder fights, and thus: more interesting ones. The fact that we did not have one, meant that a battle would soon be seen as too hard, I think.

Overall it was a good quest, I hope you see my points as constructive, and thanks again for hosting

[Darth Nihilus]

To start, thank you UsernameMDM for hosting! It was, for the most part, a very interesting Quest, except for the points mentioned by Rumble Strike and Scubacarrot above. As they have said, the photography and story was excellent, although it might have benefitted from a boss fight. The battles were very well-described, and they came often enough that I didn't really get bored. As the others have also said, the rewards were great, especially for Dwellington, who gained two gems in teh Quest, and Scuba, Tanma, and I, who gained a lot of Gold from the battles and the end rewards both. All in all, you get a from me.

[Rumble Strike]

Also just to give people a heads up that I will be hosting another Quest soon. Signups are imminent and it will be mainly for lower-level players.

[Tanma]

It is good to know the cause of the varying battle difficulties, I can see the difficulties in tweaking a Level one quest for a group of level ten and level seven heroes. My thoughts on the pace were already brought up by others, so I can't really add anything to that. Thank you for hosting for us, and I apologize for complaining so much near the start.

[UsernameMDM]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I apologize for the slow pace. I did not post sometimes because I saw y'all were spending time role playing, so I didn't want to interrupt that, but most of the time I just put the quest on the back burner to other things. Not having internet access at work really put a clamp on how much time I could spend updating the quest, and by the time I got home, I would rather do other things. Sorry!

I thought the fights at the end were pretty weak on my part. I saw that the spider almost wiped y'all out, so I wanted to take it a little easier. I should have boosted the Crystal Gobbler's HP by probably about double, or went with the original SP plan. His Special was pretty decent and could have wiped the party out in one or two rounds (which the spider almost did).

Like I said, this quest was meant to be a level 1 quest. I wanted it to be a intro dungeon crawler. I tried to put a bit of everything in it: exploration, traps, different monster types, skill use (diplomacy), using shovels, picks, etc. I think the original stats for the monsters were perfect for level 1s, but when I saw y'all 6 were basically the only questers available, I had to adjust on the fly. BTW - all the dialogue, descriptions, etc were written on the fly as well. Just made all that up as we went.

Now onto specifics:

RUMBLE STRIKE:

Whether that was due to initial errors in your enemy levels or player feedback that the spider in particular was too hard, I don't know. It did seem to be a slight anticlimax with just the one Gobbler faced. Like Tanma and others, I thought that there were more to encounter, perhaps it would have worked that this was a baby one and there was an angry momma around too?

He was supposed to be a level 1 boss. Maybe he does have an angry mother.

I liked your sets and pics, and your text descriptions were good.

Thanks! I am sure you can tell, but all the cave stuff was done with the same backdrop, just from different angles/areas.

SCUBACARROT:

That ties in with my second point: The whole quest was basically explore-a-maze. Which is fine, for a little bit, but since we had absolutely no clue which way we should go, it was basically guesswork each time.

Like I said, I wanted it to be a level 1 dungeon crawl. In real life too, if you were exploring a cave, you wouldn't know where to go.

The battle with the bats was too easy, though.

It was, but after the spider, I felt sorry for y'all.

The loot seemed really low for the most part, but I think the rewards we got near the end made up for that, and then some.

Again, blame it on the level 1 stuff.

A last tip: Choose a cleric in the party next time, it allows for much harder fights, and thus: more interesting ones. The fact that we did not have one, meant that a battle would soon be seen as too hard, I think.

I would have if one would have signed up. I can't make clerics sign up. Y'all were it!

D NIHILUS:

The battles were very well-described, and they came often enough that I didn't really get bored.

Thanks! I wanted the battles to feel like everything was happening all at once, and not like everyone was taking a turn. If you noticed, I described some of the actions out of order, but always resolved the actual dice rolls first.

TANMA:

It is good to know the cause of the varying battle difficulties, I can see the difficulties in tweaking a Level one quest for a group of level ten and level seven heroes.

It was more difficult than I thought it would be, so I just flubbed up on that. Really, after the spider I was a bit gun shy and didn't want to just maul y'all to pieces. But next quest...

Thanks again for participating and for the feedback. It definitely was a learning experience, and I hope to do it again soon!

I would love to hear for some readers as well. Was it an entertaining quest? What would you have done different? What did you like? Etc.

[Sandy]

I did not post sometimes because I saw y'all were spending time role playing, so I didn't want to interrupt that, but most of the time I just put the quest on the back burner to other things. Not having internet access at work really put a clamp on how much time I could spend updating the quest, and by the time I got home, I would rather do other things. Sorry!

Okay... If that's your attitude towards the hosting duty, you probably should abstain from pitching quests in the future.

[UsernameMDM]

Okay... If that's your attitude towards the hosting duty, you probably should abstain from pitching quests in the future.

It's not really a negative attitude towards it. I get home in the middle of the evening, and with wife, kids & stuff to do IRL, I'd rather not spend hours on the computer. I think the pacing was a bit slow towards the end, but it wasn't neglected. Many times I was waiting on characters to make choices/state actions. You can look at the posts where I wound up just skipping some players and posted for them.

[Sandy]

But it's called a hosting duty for a reason. As a QM you have the duty to manage the quest and direct the players. It takes a huge chunk of time and effort (I know that probably better than anyone else here), but I think it's also rewarding to see the players enjoy themselves on your adventure.

Anyway, in the end your quest was successful, UMDM, and that's all that matters. Thanks for your contribution!

[UsernameMDM]

Yes, and I understand. Thanks for hosting ALL of it. I've enjoyed myself immensely.

[JimBee]

With two more quests ending, I would like to add my feedback here.

Quest 17: I really enjoyed following this one. It was interesting to see what the heroes could come up with in the freedom of the tower defense-style set-up. The battles were epic, and I thought the loot was interesting too. I thought the degree of freedom was just right, though one gripe I have is that sometimes the pause between battles felt too long. There should've been a shorter time limit, IMO, but other than that well done, Doc.

Quest 23: I liked how this one was short and sweet. Between long, epic quests it's nice to have simpler ones. I liked the mystery aspect to it (particularly how the players had to do things based on pictures and not descriptions). The battles were challenging, which is good. I loved the character interactions, as well. That's one advantage to having a small party (not to mention that all four were extremely active throughout, which definitely made all the posts worth reading). Hope to see more from you in the future, Scubacarrot.

[CMP]

I really loved both Quests as well. The first was pretty much a combination of ingenuity and lots of fighting, and how the heroes handled all the elves was a great read.

Quest 23 reminded me a lot of Quest 11, another one of my favorites. Based entirely in Eubric, something Atramor getting's quite used to, but it really focused on the underworld and the corrupt guard this time around. I loved the whole investigation thing, though the whole quest was a bit shorter than I expected. If we didn't have bedrolls, I know we would've fully succeeded.... It wasn't as all as straightforward as other quests, and our goal had me confused a bit as to what to do next, but the next clue always seemed to turn up somewhere. I would definitely go on another quest of yours, Scuba.

One point I really liked was that the loot, while plentiful, was tailored to the enemies more than it was to the heroes - adding quite a bit to the realism. :thumbup:

[K-Nut]

Great job on the quest Doc! I agree with JimB that the time between battles was the worst part. The battles were really fun. The length was well, long. Otherwise, I loved it.

[Brickdoctor]

...and, Quest 17 is done!

So, here are some of my thoughts:

Brickdoctor (QM/NPCs)

I think I might have made the quest a little too complicated. I know the movement and line-of-sight rules had most of you confused at least through the first Battle, and the Lion Knights were pretty much useless except in the last Battle. I was trying to add some NPCs to help you out that didn't rely on more dice, but I think it was too confusing. I also think that I made some of the enemies too weak, and I definitely made the horses overly powerful. (though I decided that since I'd already given them to you, I'd let you finish the quest with them at full power, since it was my fault in the first place for making them so powerful) I had balanced the enemies for Levels 1-5, and decided that I'd just let Althior and Xander pwn everything they attacked. In retrospect, the three lords at least should've had perhaps another 100 HP, and I should've introduced another more powerful siege weapon for the final two battles to threaten the fort more. The quest also ran waaaaay toooooo looooong.

K-nut (Althior)

I kind of felt initially that you didn't really know what to do with all the freedom I was giving you, so I think you didn't take that much of a leading role early on. (which is completely understandable - I, for example, fail miserably at writing essays, but I can do pretty well if I have to write within limitations on words: poetry, for example) You tried to do a lot of stuff with magic and not available materials, but I think you got more inventive and more decisive as the quest went on. Good work.

posades (Xander)

You weren't as active, so you couldn't innovate as much as some of the other players, but you helped where you could and you were a consistent player. No complaints from me.

VolcanicPanik (William)

At first, I thought you were in this for the loot. (and even though I keep saying that loot and XP are all that matter, it's really not) Once you were told what needed to be done to accomplish things within the quest, though, you had a lot of great ideas and you executed them well. Great work.

Capt.JohnPaul (Alexandre)

From the start, you were one of the more inventive players. After what happened in the first quest you QMed (Q6, I believe), I was a little afraid that you wouldn't be committed to this one, but you were active and both you and Flipz (and, later, Volcanic) were doing just what I wanted to see in the quest. Excellent job.

Flipz (Arthur)

Arthur was awesome. Sort of like K-nut, you did seem to attempt to work inside the box at the beginning of the quest. I'm not sure if you weren't yet quite sure of what to do, or if you were testing the limits. In any case, you added so much to this quest, and both you and Capt.JohnPaul (and, later, Volcanic) were doing just what I wanted to see in the quest. Excellent work.

Sloop (Helm)

You sort of got thrown in at the end of the quest, but you seemed to get the hang of things pretty quickly, and you did a good job filling in for Spag. Ordering the Lion Crossbowmen to throw the trebuchet ammo at elves was genius; too bad Althior (and my overpowering horse) annihilated them before that could come into play.

Kadabra (Arasmyth)

You were sort of active and sort of not, but you were fairly consistent. There were several Rounds which you didn't participate in. Good work overall, though.

Dharkan (Isabella)

You really got left out being Flipz's assistant with the catapult, and that was totally my fault and I apologize for it. I hope you got enough action at the end of the quest, and I'd love to have you on another one of my quests in which you can see more action, because when you did get the chance to act, you did so quite well.

Kenghis Ghan (Spag)

What happened to you? You were fairly active, and then you were gone. I hope everything's okay in real life for you.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Scuba:

Overall an enjoyable quest. Was there something else we should have done to continue with the quest? The quest ending felt sudden, like we missed something. I certainly didn't expect that the Barr fight would be the last.

I think you did have some rule hiccups throughout the quest but I think you handled them well after they were brought up.

[Flipz]

Kenghis Ghan (Spag)

What happened to you? You were fairly active, and then you were gone. I hope everything's okay in real life for you.

Banned, actually...

I really enjoyed the Quest, though I must admit it ran a little long. I really enjoyed getting to play Count Knyghton, even though he was no Hoptet, he was still fun to characterize. I hope he appears again in Quest 31! And those siege weapons I so lovingly made better show up in more refined forms, too!

The only thing I missed was character interaction, we got a little bit of it going between Arthur and Althior with the Apprentice bit, and of course you all put up with De'kra and me yakking all the time in between battles, but for the most part, we built, we fought, we waited. I would have liked to have seen more chances for interaction, perhaps a couple of Pikemen could have gotten into a scuffle the Heroes would have to mediate, or something like that. I tried to instigate that with the whole "spy mission" thing before the final round, but then Althior shot that down.

Overall, great Quest, and I can't wait to Quest with you again!

[Brickdoctor]

Banned, actually...

Wow, I didn't notice that.

I really enjoyed the Quest, though I must admit it ran a little long. I really enjoyed getting to play Count Knyghton, even though he was no Hoptet, he was still fun to characterize. I hope he appears again in Quest 31! And those siege weapons I so lovingly made better show up in more refined forms, too!

It'll be revealed in the opening one or two scenes of Q31, so I suppose it can't hurt to tell you that Luke and Count Lewis both return.

The only thing I missed was character interaction, we got a little bit of it going between Arthur and Althior with the Apprentice bit, and of course you all put up with De'kra and me yakking all the time in between battles, but for the most part, we built, we fought, we waited. I would have liked to have seen more chances for interaction, perhaps a couple of Pikemen could have gotten into a scuffle the Heroes would have to mediate, or something like that. I tried to instigate that with the whole "spy mission" thing before the final round, but then Althior shot that down.

Good point. Roleplaying's definitely not my strong point, so I didn't really know how to include that. (I never really considered it, actually)

[Sloop]

As everyone else has already said, I enjoyed reading the quest, and later on participating in it.

It was totally understandable, but it was slightly annoying being rather under leveled and underpowered for the battle I participated in, but you did an awesome job compensating with allowing me to do some actual damage with the catapult, and the fact that I got ape-tons of gold and a couple consumables for a couple of weeks play.

I definitely hope to be able to participate in another of your quests, if not #31 then another further along down the road.

[Brickdoctor]

As everyone else has already said, I enjoyed reading the quest, and later on participating in it.

It was totally understandable, but it was slightly annoying being rather under leveled and underpowered for the battle I participated in, but you did an awesome job compensating with allowing me to do some actual damage with the catapult, and the fact that I got ape-tons of gold and a couple consumables for a couple of weeks play.

I'm actually glad to hear that you felt underpowered in that battle. The final enemies were, as I said, balanced for around Level 5, so I'm glad to hear that they seemed overpowering to a player under Level 5.

[Scubacarrot]

Quest 23: I liked how this one was short and sweet. Between long, epic quests it's nice to have simpler ones. I liked the mystery aspect to it (particularly how the players had to do things based on pictures and not descriptions). The battles were challenging, which is good. I loved the character interactions, as well. That's one advantage to having a small party (not to mention that all four were extremely active throughout, which definitely made all the posts worth reading). Hope to see more from you in the future, Scubacarrot.

Thanks, JimB, it is nice to see there are people following it that are not playing the particular quest . I am indeed very happy I had such active players, it makes what you have to do as a QM much more fun and easier.

Quest 23 reminded me a lot of Quest 11, another one of my favorites. Based entirely in Eubric, something Atramor getting's quite used to, but it really focused on the underworld and the corrupt guard this time around. I loved the whole investigation thing, though the whole quest was a bit shorter than I expected. If we didn't have bedrolls, I know we would've fully succeeded.... It wasn't as all as straightforward as other quests, and our goal had me confused a bit as to what to do next, but the next clue always seemed to turn up somewhere. I would definitely go on another quest of yours, Scuba.

One point I really liked was that the loot, while plentiful, was tailored to the enemies more than it was to the heroes - adding quite a bit to the realism. :thumbup:

Thanks, if it reminded you of Quest 11, I think it was a good thing, since Quest 11 is one of my favorites as well! The investigation thing was what I was going for, I am not entirely happy how that turned out, to be honest, but glad to see you liked it.

Scuba:

Overall an enjoyable quest. Was there something else we should have done to continue with the quest? The quest ending felt sudden, like we missed something. I certainly didn't expect that the Barr fight would be the last.

I think you did have some rule hiccups throughout the quest but I think you handled them well after they were brought up.

Yes, The ending was sudden, the reason is this: When I first pitched my quest idea, I had to shorten it, since it was after all, my first quest. I did not really want to compromise on the story side of things, so I had to find a suitable place to make the cut. This was kinda the best place I could find. I say kinda, because, let's be honest, it's still a terrible place to end the quest. I wish I could think of a better way to have done it, but I could not really think of anything. You did not miss anything vital, the main goal was reached. Of course, different things would have happened if different choices were made (in the prison bit, mostly).

It actually surprised me, how easy it is to make mistakes. I really underestimated the complexity of the game rules, and that leads to mistakes, in my case lots (most of you did not see, I fixed right after they were made). Don't get me wrong, QM-ing is really fun, but it does require a good bit of attention to do things right, I have learned.

I want to thank the players again for being such good sports and all that good stuff, I'll say it again, it helps immensely to have active players. I hope the players had fun, and are not too mad at me for trying to kill their avatars.

I learned quite a bit, and if I am allowed, I would like to QM a sequel at some point. Some of the things I learned are this, maybe they help for future QM's/Players?

Party Size. If you have a small party, battles with fewer opponents actually get easier, since the party has less danger of getting into trouble because of bad rolls. Larger parties are of course more effective in battles against more enemies. QM-ing a small party is also easier, I think, Since you have less chance of having to wait long for player input. If I am going to host again, four heroes is the number I will go with again, it seems to work.

Don't give in to your players. This was about a mistake I made, I feel. If you have read my quest you know that the heroes had the option to retrieve an item from a guarded chest. The party basically got this item too easily, by just talking a bit. How it should have gone, was that the party either used Diplomacy, or used a distraction to get the helmet, but me, wanting to move the quest along, basically gave it up after a chat. I think this was poor QM-ing on my part.

Give that player a choice. Players love choice. It's true, really.

Get a decent Camera. Yeah... This is something I need to do. All images were shot by a phone, I am not happy with how they looked overall, but it is all I have, at the moment, all my money goes to Bricks, after all.

Knights are OP. They are overpowered, really. Because of their massive shield powers, I propose some changes. It will get/gets hard to design good enemies when you need to take a shielded opponent in consideration, and then have players that have none. Cronk almost never took damage in my quest, and I want to provide a hard battle (Which is my next point!). 1. You could Cap SP, not a great solution, but it would work. 2. I proposed this in the R&D topic, but got no response: Calculate SP before Row, this is something that should be done anyway, in my opinion. 3. Have it so that a Knight can only absorb a certain amount each round, like this: Knight gets 10 damage from roll, and 10 from a free hit, he is in the front row, and has 15 SP. How it would work, is this: He absorbs 10 damage, then only 5, and takes 5 damage. I can't explain this well, but you get my point? 4. Permanently implement Zepher's rule for free hits: 1 damage regardless. This was actually a mistake on my part, but I think it can help to balance things out, perhaps.

Give players a challenge. Easy battles are boring battles. You don't want that. Having a cleric(or another source of healing, as in Quest 14 or 26) in the party is a must in order to have fun battles. Clerics are meant to be supporting, and I think that is exactly what Rufindel was doing most of the quest. However, I felt my battles were still too easy. Looking back, I would have made my battles much harder.

Gimmicks? Be careful with those. Looking back, what I did with the undead battle? It was kind of pointless. Don't do gimmicks, unless it's necessary.

Variety. I felt there was not enough variety in my quest, I had a puzzle planned, but it did not make the cut, unfortunately. I think at least one puzzle is a good thing for every quest, Alternatively, force them to be creative, to be in Quest 17, and it will surely either give players a sense of well-deserved pride that they did something cool, or you can have fun writing up how the heroes failed horribly. Success guaranteed.

I'm sure I have missed some of my own thoughts, that's how it works, but for now it is written. Thanks again to the players for playing!

[CMP]

Gimmicks? Be careful with those. Looking back, what I did with the undead battle? It was kind of pointless. Don't do gimmicks, unless it's necessary.

Actually, it was pretty necessary. I was afraid I'd spend the entire battle doing nothing.

Don't feel bad about your pictures. People's shots with their phones somehow always manage to turn out better than any shots I can take with my camera.

[Scubacarrot]

Actually, it was pretty necessary. I was afraid I'd spend the entire battle doing nothing.

Don't feel bad about your pictures. People's shots with their phones somehow always manage to turn out better than any shots I can take with my camera.

The gimmick I meant was taking your weapons away in the first place .

[Rumble Strike]

I thought you did well, Scuba. The Quest was interesting and you certainly picked a "who's who" of Heroica talent to play with you, which helped as they knew what they were doing, and posted lots.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Knights are OP. They are overpowered, really. Because of their massive shield powers, I propose some changes. It will get/gets hard to design good enemies when you need to take a shielded opponent in consideration, and then have players that have none. Cronk almost never took damage in my quest, and I want to provide a hard battle (Which is my next point!). 1. You could Cap SP, not a great solution, but it would work. 2. I proposed this in the R&D topic, but got no response: Calculate SP before Row, this is something that should be done anyway, in my opinion. 3. Have it so that a Knight can only absorb a certain amount each round, like this: Knight gets 10 damage from roll, and 10 from a free hit, he is in the front row, and has 15 SP. How it would work, is this: He absorbs 10 damage, then only 5, and takes 5 damage. I can't explain this well, but you get my point? 4. Permanently implement Zepher's rule for free hits: 1 damage regardless. This was actually a mistake on my part, but I think it can help to balance things out, perhaps.

It's all very well and good for you to say that, not playing a knight class. I'm sure most of us could argue any one of the classes is overpowered. Really it varies from player to player. Nyx, for example, is a truly powerful example of a mage class character who has consistently kicked butt in all of her quests. No one's suggested that her abilities get nerfed. Tesni was an unstoppable force as a raging barbarian equipped with a darkness imbued weapon. No one nerfed the barbarian class because of her.

The knight classes are about defense and the largest part of that is SP. Knights are also front line fighters that have to absorb some damage to survive. I know that I sound a little biased playing one, but I think the rules are fair. Cronk may not have taken a lot of damage this past quest but I spent a lot of time earning the gold to get his SP that high. If the way damage is calculated with SP is changed, upgrading SP isn't worth it.

I understand coming up with tough battles can be hard on the QM but I think a lot depends on how the dice go. In the Paladin Conquest, the final assault on the city was a disaster, with half the party down and the rest of us just trying to survive rather than win and that was with our shields. I think this past quest went well because the dice were with us and we as a party, Pandora especially, made smart choices strategically. If we had taken on the enemies whose specials damaged the whole party first, we would have quickly died. And as it was, the other party members besides Cronk were very low on health several times and only strategy and lucky rolls kept them up and fighting.