2012 Friends Discussion Thread

[Jargo]

I'm thinking Clikits but with bricks. Build a princess tiara. Technic tread bracelet. minifig head necklace. Horus mummy wings hair slide.

[LEGO Guy Bri]

I keep reading about the paradisa theme but, what about the other one that more or less replaced it. Bellville or Bellview? What happened to that. IMO it looked like a cross of Barbie and Lego. The figures looked to be 6 inches or so right?

[vexorian]

Belville is something we are all trying to forget. Just like 4Juniors and what not.

[lightningtiger]

Actually I think Belville replaced Scala, goodness why Lego.....why was this path taken would of prefered Fabuland had made a return than the intro of Belville.

[Blondie-Wan]

I actually kind of like Belville, for whatever reason. I half-want to use the figures as giant princesses and fashionistas rampaging through my LEGO City, or possibly teaming up with Exo-Force-style mechs against the Alien Conquerors.

Leg Godt Gud, the Belville theme does indeed use larger, more traditionally "doll"-like figures, and the sets tended to be LEGO versions of the sorts of playsets and accessories one would typically associate with girls' dolls (houses, castles, stables, etc.). It was actually around for quite a while, since at least the mid-'90s until just last year, but as far as I could tell it didn't make it into stores very often. Here's LEGO's product page for the last wave of sets, some of which are still available.

LEGO's taken criticism for the theme at times, as some have perceived them to be channelling girls into stereotypical play patterns, as though saying that only dollhouse-style play is appropriate for or interesting to girls, but I've long had the impression it was the other way around - that LEGO was trying to reach out to girls who are already accustomed to that kind of toy and play, and offer them LEGO sets that build upon that (literally) as sort of an "in" to building toys, which they might not otherwise pick up. From what I can tell, the theme wasn't really successful at that larger goal, though it may have succeeded as simply another LEGO theme - it certainly must have sold some sets, for it to have run fifteen years or more.

Anyway, I'm glad to see LEGO's trying something new. I hope the new theme is something I can use in my own City creations (actually, another version of Paradisa would be just fine by me - my minifigures would love a tropical island getaway, I'm sure!).

[lightningtiger]

Great a tropical island, a Legoised Baywatch with a minifig of the Hoff !

I'm hoping it's going to be shops....dam, city sets are missing those.....not counting the TRU store and parts of city corner though !

[Janel]

a school would be great.... or a cool park.... library, ice rink, pool, beauty salon/spa, restaurant, hospital....these are ideas from my 8 year old daughter. She would love more lego that was girl oriented but not "pink and girly" if you know what I mean. Just because it's geared toward girls doesn't mean it has to be pink I'm a female AFOL and often feel that lego really misses out on a lot of potential customers by they're mainly boy based items. We did get a creator house for our daughter and the lifeguard harbor set for her.... and she loves playing with our modulars (emporium, fire brigade, and pet shop). Also, one of the managers at one of the lego stores I shop at did say to me last week that 2012 will see some girl themed items. So, we can just wait and see I suppose.

[minifig_gal]

The Eurobrick Ladies should chime in here and tell us what did THEY like (or would have liked) to do with Lego when they were children.

I had mostly town stuff - houses, vehicles, horsey stuff - none of it was particularly gender-specific. But I was just happy to build the stuff and then use it as a big backdrop for all sorts of dramas involving the minifig "characters" that all had names, jobs, family history etc. My sister (one of the least pink and fluffy girls I knew at the time) had lots of Fabuland and Paradisa but we just combined it all together to create a great big multicultural world where poodles could marry minifigs. Even today I'm not much of a creator and just stick to the instructions - I don't think I have the creativity to do MOCs or anything like that.

My husband says his sister was quite happy building space stations as a child.

[darkmoonlady]

Lego gets too caught up in "if we make it pink and sparkly girls will buy it" mentality. While I loved some of the Belville fantasy sets for the magical sparkly bits, they worked just as well in the Harry Potter sets in none pink tones. If Lego would create a subtheme to either Castle or City using either a familiar book series like Madeliene or even create their own story books that use scenes from the books to make sets based on scenes (much like Harry Potter) I think that would be fantastic.

They also need to abandon the different scale thing too, girls have the same dexterity as boys in building things. The larger Belville scale never made sense to me in that if they wanted to add regular Lego sets the minifigs made no sense against the Belville sized dolls. By keeping the scale the same they would open up other Lego collectors (adult males and females) who would buy the sets for the goodies (ie furniture and accessories etc). There are tons of Lego colors now and even I bought a girls bucket to get a few of the newer colors and I think that would be successful for a girls subtheme as well. Keep the fun accessories, a dollhouse type set up, use lots of colors, add in a few more animal molds including maybe some new horse molds in running or jumping positions (like other collectors wouldn't go nuts for those for other themes?!) and possibly book tie ins, there you go!

[Aanchir]

Lego gets too caught up in "if we make it pink and sparkly girls will buy it" mentality. While I loved some of the Belville fantasy sets for the magical sparkly bits, they worked just as well in the Harry Potter sets in none pink tones. If Lego would create a subtheme to either Castle or City using either a familiar book series like Madeliene or even create their own story books that use scenes from the books to make sets based on scenes (much like Harry Potter) I think that would be fantastic.

They also need to abandon the different scale thing too, girls have the same dexterity as boys in building things. The larger Belville scale never made sense to me in that if they wanted to add regular Lego sets the minifigs made no sense against the Belville sized dolls. By keeping the scale the same they would open up other Lego collectors (adult males and females) who would buy the sets for the goodies (ie furniture and accessories etc). There are tons of Lego colors now and even I bought a girls bucket to get a few of the newer colors and I think that would be successful for a girls subtheme as well. Keep the fun accessories, a dollhouse type set up, use lots of colors, add in a few more animal molds including maybe some new horse molds in running or jumping positions (like other collectors wouldn't go nuts for those for other themes?!) and possibly book tie ins, there you go!

Well, the problem is that Harry Potter is based on an existing franchise, and it would be difficult for TLG to match its appeal in their own new intellectual property. Using others' intellectual properties can be a good strategy, but it comes with a huge number of drawbacks in the licensing restrictions (being forced to produce products from that franchise) and the royalty costs. TLG had the same problem in the early 2000s with Star Wars-- BIONICLE was their answer to that problem, and given its nine-year lifespan I'd say it did fairly well despite being a different scale.

Keep in mind that scale doesn't always have to do with dexterity. Often it's also a matter of playability. Since TLG's market research seems to suggest that girls prefer more conventional role-play (not saying this is true, but not being a girl myself TLG's research is all I have to judge by), it makes sense that they'd expect a range of figures with a more human-like range of motion to catch on. BIONICLE seemed to be based on a similar principle, except based more around combat role-play with its frequent use of projectiles or "action features" to make the sets fight. Hard to say whether Belville really did catch on the way BIONICLE did, since it, too, lasted several years, but like BIONICLE or the 4+ range it obviously lost its edge after a while.

It's possible that the new (supposedly minifigure-based) girls' theme will be more successful. Of course, the most reliable way for it to be successful would be for TLG to put as much of an initial investment into it as they did with BIONICLE or, more recently, Ninjago. I can't say whether TLG would in fact do this, since unlike those themes which appealed to the core demographic a girls' theme would appeal to what is currently a marginal part of LEGO's audience. But I am sincerely hoping that TLG takes this next girls' theme seriously, especially since its predecessor, Belville, was never marketed very strongly here in the US.

[Gregorovich]

I agree that LEGO do have the stupid idea that girls only like pink. But honestly, I don't mind. I lack pink bricks, so I'm always happy to see pink parts pop up now and again. However, I don't like that everything is pink. It just doesn't fit in with normal sets. I just hope that this time LEGO get it right - some pink, but not so much that it becomes ridiculous.

I'd be very glad to see either a city/town theme aimed slightly more at girls or a fairytale theme. A town theme would possibly mean cafes, restaurants, shops, leisure places and more casual female minifigs. A fairytale theme could mean dresses, castles, medieval villages and mythical creatures. If any of those things would be made, I'm sure they'd have a few nice new or re-coloured parts.

[badboytje88]

We should turn this topic into a building contest

[Aanchir]

I agree that LEGO do have the stupid idea that girls only like pink. But honestly, I don't mind. I lack pink bricks, so I'm always happy to see pink parts pop up now and again. However, I don't like that everything is pink. It just doesn't fit in with normal sets. I just hope that this time LEGO get it right - some pink, but not so much that it becomes ridiculous.

I'd be very glad to see either a city/town theme aimed slightly more at girls or a fairytale theme. A town theme would possibly mean cafes, restaurants, shops, leisure places and more casual female minifigs. A fairytale theme could mean dresses, castles, medieval villages and mythical creatures. If any of those things would be made, I'm sure they'd have a few nice new or re-coloured parts.

Paradisa did OK with using only a limited amount of pink. Unfortunately, this meant that you could never amass enough pink parts to be useful, and that all the buildings were primarily a boring white and light gray.

Note also that not all Belville sets were primarily pink. Consider 2005's Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale collection, which used pink but also a wide range of blue, purple, and green parts where appropriate. Belville did have a tendency to use more obscure colors than regular themes, and many of these were indeed pink, purple, and "pastel" colors. But this isn't something companies do just because they're blindly guessing it's a good idea. Rather, girls are more likely to buy products in these colors, as has been shown time and time again, probably because it's so deeply ingrained in our culture that anything pink, pastel, or fluffy is especially for girls.

Say what you will about LEGO's responsibility to create a positive change in how girls are brought up, but frankly I don't think there's any easy way they can do this. And they certainly can't do this by creating unpopular, unsuccessful products just to avoid reinforcing gender stereotypes. If that were the case, then you could claim LEGO is working towards gender equality just by sticking with their regular product lines, despite the fact that those product lines are bought by an overwhelmingly male audience.

The truth is that these products, although primarily bought by boys, have always been available to girls and will continue to be available to them even if TLG does have a girl-oriented theme with lots of pink and other feminine stereotypes. But this way TLG is actually able to impact a larger female audience than just the occasional girls who continue playing with LEGO beyond the Duplo years. And that influence isn't necessarily any more restrictive or subjugating than the commercial influence that LEGO products already have on their male and female buyers.

[sharky]

If I were a marketing manager, I'd probably be doing some diligent research on whether or not girls would react more to contemporary sets or more period based stuff. Do girls want to play with figs doing active things like riding scooters or going to the fashion boutique, or would they be more impressed with Victorian era figs in fancy gowns and ballroom settings, things like that.

Our girls are really into dress-up, and 'old-time' stuff... I bet TLG could really put together a nice line of period stuff, AND the fact that it's exclusive just to the girls' line would also compel adult collectors to give it a long, hard look.

Interesting question you pose do they go vintage or modern?

I think a modern City theme specifically geared toward girls is a great way to go. I know I struggle to find sets for my daughter that are not too "girly" as she has outgrown princess stuff. Fortunately, she likes Star Wars so some of those sets she enjoys. Recently I got her the Camper set and Small Car.

Personally, I think the Creator series has some great sets that girls could enjoy. I plan to give her the Beach House and Apple Tree House that I got off ebay recently. I also plan to give her plenty of girl mini figs to go with them. This is for an end of school year good grades reward.

Some good City themed sets I think would work for girls based on what my daughter enjoys:

Horse Ranch

Concert Hall with a pop singer and a band

Fashion Boutique

Pet Shop (glad to see that set has been made, but maybe a more moderately priced one would be even better)

Dog Park or simply a City Park (could have bikes, scooters, etc)

Artist or maybe Ballet Studio

School House

Cruise Ship scene

Doctor's Office

Vet Office

Hair Salon

I don't think these sets have to go overboard with the pastels to appeal to girls. They just have to be of subjects girls would enjoy playing with. These sets could work with the existing City theme as well.

I'm sure there are even more great ideas.

[lightningtiger]

Okay, this was what 'Legocrazy81' wrote over in the General News area yesterday.

Quote - "I'm not too sure what were getting out of this....but, I was at TRU today and a tock shelves was a Lego rep. We got to talking, one thing that saddened me was he was unaware of Hillside House. That may or may not mean were getting it, who's to say. Another thing he mentioned was a upcoming(August) is a coffee house. Interested, I asked what line? Creator? He says, no, the one with the grocer. I'm thinking...hmm, another Modular so soon? So I say, Green Grocer? The same as Cafe Corner, Grand Emporium, those ones? He said yes, although it wasn't a set in stone kind of yes. Rather a I'm 99% sure kind of yes. Here's to hoping we get a coffee shop, regardless of what theme it is."

Now all kind of weird rumours for city has been floating around, hopefully Lego might make the clearer.

In any case a coffee house would fit this girl theme perfectly, and it should have too much pink in it !

Keep on waiting !

[Legoless]

Lego must be selling a fair few pink brick buckets as they are sold by UK supermarket Tesco instore (some other Lego sets are only available from Tesco's via Tesco Direct- ie mail order). Tesco simply won't stock slow moving lines on their shelves- hence their instore Lego lines consist entirely of bestselling sets.

So presumably there must be quite a few girls out there with Lego- assuming that pink buckets are not bought for boys. Perhaps we will have to wait a few years for said girls to show up as AFOLs before we can judge how successful that line has been. Personally, while I can see uses for the pale pink bricks, I think most AFOLs would be hard-pressed to come up with a use for the dark pink (cerise) bricks- its such a horrible colour.

I hope that TLG comes up with a concept that, whilst appealing primarily to girls, would still be attractive to boy fans of Lego.

[lightningtiger]

Don't I always come though with tit-bits of information eh ?

I have been told the as the yet un-named theme will be three times larger than the present Belville range - that's at least 9 or more sets. Sadly what it might contain is a mystery and Lego seem to be holding their cards close to their chests again....so we'll still have to wait and see after September/October/November for images I guess.

Keep on waiting !

[sharky]

Okay, this was what 'Legocrazy81' wrote over in the General News area yesterday.

Quote - "I'm not too sure what were getting out of this....but, I was at TRU today and a tock shelves was a Lego rep. We got to talking, one thing that saddened me was he was unaware of Hillside House. That may or may not mean were getting it, who's to say. Another thing he mentioned was a upcoming(August) is a coffee house. Interested, I asked what line? Creator? He says, no, the one with the grocer. I'm thinking...hmm, another Modular so soon? So I say, Green Grocer? The same as Cafe Corner, Grand Emporium, those ones? He said yes, although it wasn't a set in stone kind of yes. Rather a I'm 99% sure kind of yes. Here's to hoping we get a coffee shop, regardless of what theme it is."

Now all kind of weird rumours for city has been floating around, hopefully Lego might make the clearer.

In any case a coffee house would fit this girl theme perfectly, and it should have too much pink in it !

Keep on waiting !

I think a coffee shop is a great idea, and hopefully it appeal to more girls. Let's hope it comes with a few laptop pieces like the one I saw with the Alien Conquest set.

[bglego15]

My daughter's favorite sets are all from the Farm sub-theme. Only exception is the City Corner. Bringing back Farm would be a good move; especially a horse stable or adding more animals. Hey, every city also needs a zoo...

[FishHead]

My daughter's favorite sets are all from the Farm sub-theme. Only exception is the City Corner. Bringing back Farm would be a good move; especially a horse stable or adding more animals. Hey, every city also needs a zoo...

Agreed, and it's largely the same at our house. Daughter loves the farm series, anything with animals, and would love to have both a vet (pet doctor) and "regular" hospital staffed with doctors and nurses. Lego seems to get stuck trying make "dolls" (i.e. the Belville line) for girls. In our house, just having more civilian / animal themed stuff for the growing Lego city would be ideal....

[Klaus-Dieter]

Thank you very much for this information, lightningtiger!

From that the new girls' theme will have nine sets you can conclude that it very supposably won't be a City subtheme (which has 4-6 new sets) but a new theme on its own.

Because of this and since (even if perhaps not as much as girls) even boys like farms and zoos I find a Zoo theme or a new Farm theme as this girls' theme completely excluded.

So I'd go for either a fairy theme (with mythical castles, animals and minifigures) or a Paradisa style theme (which could include everything from some beach sets over a villa to a horse stables - let's say some sort of Barbie theme in minifigure style).

Let's hope that we'll get some more information soon - but surely we can't expect if before the middle of August.

Klaus-Dieter

[Mr. Elijah Timms]

I can't really answer it, because i"m not a girl, but do girls, young or older, really need everything to be pink and purple for it to be appealing to them???? I think aesthetically speaking these sets will live or die by the color scheme. If they choose to ground them in reality and create just general town/city/contemporary structures and settings, this will translate seamlessly into the city line. On the other hand, if getting a restaurant means the entire thing is plastered with pink flowers and unicorns, I will absolutely pass...

[Klaus-Dieter]

I can't really answer it, because i"m not a girl, but do girls, young or older, really need everything to be pink and purple for it to be appealing to them???? I think aesthetically speaking these sets will live or die by the color scheme. If they choose to ground them in reality and create just general town/city/contemporary structures and settings, this will translate seamlessly into the city line. On the other hand, if getting a restaurant means the entire thing is plastered with pink flowers and unicorns, I will absolutely pass...

Sorry, I can't answer, too, Mr. Elijah Timms, since I'm not a girl, too.

But that Barbie and other dolls - which are mainly kept in pink - are still sold very well, shows that at least parents buy for their younger daughters many toys in pink colors.

I personally fear that this theme - if it was a theme going with the City theme - would be kept in pink. Why otherwise is talked about a "girls' theme" and not about a new City theme in general which could attract the interest of girls, too (like the Farm theme)?!

Klaus-Dieter

[Aanchir]

Sorry, I can't answer, too, Mr. Elijah Timms, since I'm not a girl, too.

But that Barbie and other dolls - which are mainly kept in pink - are still sold very well, shows that at least parents buy for their younger daughters many toys in pink colors.

I personally fear that this theme - if it was a theme going with the City theme - would be kept in pink. Why otherwise is talked about a "girls' theme" and not about a new City theme in general which could attract the interest of girls, too (like the Farm theme)?!

Klaus-Dieter

Well, being designed for girls means more than just stereotypical "girly" color schemes. There are other obvious factors-- I imagine this theme will have a lot of space and accessories for role-play (much like a dollhouse) and a majority of female minifigures over male ones.

At the same time, I have no doubt that there will be a lot of "girly" colors used in this theme-- after all, the two lavender colors introduced this year (324 and 325) are scarcely used in any sets, so I figure TLG must have bigger plans for them next year, and the girls' theme is perhaps the most likely application for them. The same applies for 326 Spring Yellowish Green, which has yet to be seen in a single set-- not even as part of a printed decoration or sticker!

Here are the six new colors introduced to the palette this year, if anyone's curious.

[Mr. Elijah Timms]

At the same time, I have no doubt that there will be a lot of "girly" colors used in this theme-- after all, the two lavender colors introduced this year (324 and 325) are scarcely used in any sets, so I figure TLG must have bigger plans for them next year, and the girls' theme is perhaps the most likely application for them. The same applies for 326 Spring Yellowish Green, which has yet to be seen in a single set-- not even as part of a printed decoration or sticker!

Fascinating stuff, and I think you're on to something. I have a hard time imagining a bright purple house in the middle of my city...