Jedi Temple Mafia - Conclusion

[Professor Flitwick]

I'll skip out on player feedback, as I didn't follow this game closely. There's just one question I have. Why, on Day Severn, when the scum/town ratio was 3:3, did the scum not win then?

[Scubacarrot]

Because theoretically the town could have won: they reach 3 votes first against scum > 2 scum, 3 town, Nightkill, 2 scum, 2 town, again reach 2 votes first >1 scum, 2 town, nightkill > 1 scum, 1 town, person who votes first wins?

So.... Yeah....

[def]

Because theoretically the town could have won: they reach 3 votes first against scum > 2 scum, 3 town, Nightkill, 2 scum, 2 town, again reach 2 votes first >1 scum, 2 town, nightkill > 1 scum, 1 town, person who votes first wins?

So.... Yeah....

Usually when the scum reach parity (an equal number) the game is over.

[Scubacarrot]

Usually when the scum reach parity (an equal number) the game is over.

I did not know, but yes, I guess that would have made a bit more sense.

[Peanuts]

Well, congratulation to the scum team. The game might have been a bit unbalanced, and the no unvoting rule was annoying, but you played a solid game. You basically managed to convert the right people, Tammo and the SK, and then killed all the night actions and active people one by one (actually, two by two ).

I myself tried to play this one game more via PMs and was slightly less active in the day thread, i.e. only talking when I had something important to talk about. Unfortunately, I the first person I talked to was converted the following night. I think that's the problem with conversions, the scum can choose who they want to play with. But kudos to Tammo, you played really well. I suspected you at some point, and told Fhomess my role and that you knew, but you killed the both of us the same night. Damn you, I'm never goin to trust you again!

[Scubacarrot]

So, my thoughts about the game:

I will start with how I think I did myself: I don't think I did a particular good job, I think my performance in previous mafia games was better (on EB that is, you don't want to hear my drunk real life mafia card-game stories). Mostly because I gave up, twice. If I am ever going to sign up for a Mafia game again (I said this before, but yeah...) I will try to be more consistent, and have an actual strategy. I think I messed up a bit, especially when I went after paladathric. Another mistake on my part was that I was quite obviously a (vanilla) townie, this became clear on the first two days, I think, which limited the ways I could be helpful for the town in town-blocks and things like that, I don't think there were any though. I also did not communicate to others very much, I think I PM'ed one or two people myself, and a few others contacted me, and that was it, I think I will do more along the lines of this, next game. By far the worst thing I have done was ignoring evidence that was right in front of me: The fact that Tammo ignored half of what I said, what was (in my eyes, and still is in my eyes) solid evidence, that should have set alarm bells ringing from here to the end of the world. I also need to work on my playstyle, day thread writings a lot I think, I can see that how I play in this game was similair to IMHOTEP(where I was also vanilla town), but immensely different from Yakuza(where I was scum).

The game itself: First off, thanks a lot for hosting, Masked Builder and K-Nut, I imagine it is a lot of work, and I hope it has been fun for you hosts. The Mocs were quite nicely presented, the use of the droid and the black stormtrooper as the killers was smart, as well as the change in method for the droid, I think you gave away just enough in the photo's (The exception was the photo that was too dark, but that may very well be my eyes, as others could see it clearly). The theme itself did not interest me personally very much, but that is very much a personal thing, something I knew when I signed up, I read up about my character, and that was it. Something I wondered though, why the characters you created yourself, were there not some more characters you could use in the star wars universe, if there are a few characters that are not canon, an overly paranoid mind like myself might look for something after that...

Something I was not so happy about: the fact that the days were late most of the time, up to a few days late. I'm not an enforcer for the rules or anything, but I think if you take on the responsibility of hosting a game like this, you should do everything you can to make sure you are more or less on time. I respect the fact that you could have been busy, but still. I'm probably being bitchy, but it was quite annoying for me.

On the point of the actual game mechanics: I don't think I have experience and/or knowledge to properly commentate on the balance of the game, the main reason the scum won was superior play, no doubt about it. Their Night actions were done smart, as is proven by killing me and paladathric, Flare had made himself fairly unbelievable in the town's eyes by his fairly incoherent accusations the last day, that were absolutely correct, but still, it did not seem that way. And me and paladathric would probably have been the ones to speak out against the lynch. The fact that so many roles were passed on after dead was a bit odd (was it the blocker and the janitor?) Unless that was the plan you had before the game started, you might not wanted to have done that, it is kinda unfair to the town, I think. As for the recruition of TBW to the scum, that was very odd to me when I read how it went, why was he given that choice? I don't get it. With the Shrink dead, should a serial killer not just be able to go on happily with his killing ways?

This is most of what I wanted to say, I don't really see a point in going over how the game actually went, other than this game may have been the living proof that sheep only help the scum, there has been one scum that survived solely on the basis that other players were equally as inactive. It's one tactic, I guess. So anyway: Hats off and congratulations to the scum team, I think it's a deserved win, and thanks for letting me play.

[Dannylonglegs]

After looking at the scum writeboard, I feel a little better about how epicly I failed in trusting Tammo. He's clearly a pro and had role claims all lined up to counteract my suspicions and introduced them 'slowly as he began trusting me more.' Damn. Very effective tactic. One to learn from. I really should have been more suspicious when you said there was "some reason not to lynch Lli." If I had stuck to my guns on that I might have escaped your illusions.

Also, will we get to see the night actions?

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[ADHO15]

I hate you, Tammo!

At least it's somewhat comforting to know I gave you a little bit of a headache at times after reading the Sithboard.

The game does indeed seem quite unbalanced in the Scum's favour, but there's no doubt that they had a good strategy in place for most of the game and the Jedi were ultimately made to look like fools (myself included!) Well done, you guys!

[fhomess]

In my experience, losing has been better for learning than winning (I've only won once in my 4 games...). So here's a bit of a self assessment.

I think this game had both my best and worst play to date on an EB game. I wasn't sure exactly how I wanted to play this game initially, and was a bit disappointed to draw vanilla again. I'm not as into SW as some of the other players, but I knew enough to appreciate what was going on. As R2, I really thought it would be fun to speak in beeps but that clearly annoyed people, so I backed off of it. The one thing it did, though, was open up opportunities for communication with people, and that led to my strategy of trying to communicate regularly behind the scenes. In this sense, my focus and attention to what was going on in this game was greater than it has been in any other game in the past. I think I had good conversation with people behind the scenes.

For me, the big day was, of course, day 4. When Tammo posted his head banging claim that we'd lost our investigator and BD had been janitored, I was 99% convinced he was scum. I even sent him a PM saying "You scummy scumbag!" We had quite a bit of chatter back and forth that day, and nothing Tammo said convinced me otherwise. So why didn't I vote for him? I had raised my suspicions with about 4 or 5 other players and every one of them seemed to think I was wrong or didn't have enough. In the end, I let them convince me to give Tammo another night, at which point I was killed. Ironically, the one person who tended to agree more with me was Flare, and we all know how that worked out for him. Had I survived night 4, I would've gone hard after Tammo on Day 5 given that Peanuts was killed. I think the big fail for me was not raising my suspicions more publicly. I think if I had done that, there's a chance the scum doesn't kill me because it would look obvious, or there's a chance that the people who lived would've started to see what I saw. I was very active behind the scenes, but not enough in public. The thing that ticks me off about it is that of all the people I spoke to about my suspicions of Tammo, he was the only one who was scum and he was the only one who wasn't convincing me he was town.

I blame Hinckley.

[Scorpiox]

Please note that I've calmed down a lot since I wrote this; this was written right after Kadabra cast the game-losing ending vote.

Snip

I think that may be rather excessive. This was certainly not the worse town ever, even although we lost. Yes there were the inactive ones who didn't help much, but we had some good people on our side. Scuba and Palathadric saw though Coryn when we were all still duped, surely they get some credit for that? ADHO was fairly consistant, does he get any praise? Was I really that appalling, just because Tammo played me like a violin?

It is unfair to highlight a few less-useful players and label the whole team as bad.

Congratulations to the Sith, Tammo especially.

[Flipz]

I think that may be rather excessive. This was certainly not the worse town ever, even although we lost. Yes there were the inactive ones who didn't help much, but we had some good people on our side. Scuba and Palathadric saw though Coryn when we were all still duped, surely they get some credit for that? ADHO was fairly consistant, does he get any praise? Was I really that appalling, just because Tammo played me like a violin?

It is unfair to highlight a few less-useful players and label the whole team as bad.

Congratulations to the Sith, Tammo especially.

Perhaps. I did point out that that was written right after the losing vote. You make a good point, but there were still FAR too many sheep and inactive players.

And to be honest, sheep are even more harmful to Town than conversions or serial killers or even Janitors. Even though most of the spoilered stuff is a bit overly harsh, I do stand my my statement that "if you're not going to be active and participate, don't freakin' sign up in the first place!" It's simply not fair to anyone.

[Flare]

I just realized... anyone remember when I was pushing Ili Seosty to be lynched, and no one wanted to listen to me because they said that I was just being distracting...? Well it ended up that I was right about her being a Sith! And my whole argument about Tammo being Sith was correct as well.

Next time you guys better listen to me instead of just saying that I'm being distracting!

[Jedi master Brick]

self-assesment.

I was crap. I should of been more vocal about my gut feeling the tammo was scum and should not of followed on with the vote against brickdoctor. In future I need to calm down and not be so gulible

[Sisco]

Okay, I have a few things to say.

First of all, sorry for insulting you on the writeboard, Scuba. I was playing awfully, and you were one of my top accusers, so I got frustrated. I sincerely apologize for that.

Second of all, I meant everything Flare. You had our plans neatly outlined. Too bad you couldn't get anyone to believe you...

Thirdly, I played an awful game. I was extremely disappointed with my own performance. Sure I won with the scum team, but that was all Tammo. I barely posted in the day threads and made myself a huge target for suspicion. I only sent a few PMs, all of them to Macoco. The most I did this game was follow Tammo's plan. I also disappeared every now and then for a few days. This shows a lack of class on my part, and I apologize to everyone playing. I'll be sure to try to be more active next time.

Lastly, thanks for hosting Masked and K-Nut. I think you both did a wonderful job, despite a few mishaps. The sets were nice, and the custom characters were pretty interesting. Sure I was surprised that you let us keep night actions from the dead (I ended up having three by the end of the game), but I don't think that it would've mattered much in the end. I'd gladly play another game hosted by either of you.

That being said, I think I'll take a break from Mafia for a while. I enjoyed this game, but I need to be more active, and I just can't do that right now.

Thanks for a great game, everyone!

[Scubacarrot]

First of all, sorry for insulting you on the writeboard, Scuba. I was playing awfully, and you were one of my top accusers, so I got frustrated. I sincerely apologize for that.

Very cool for you to say that, thanks for that.

[Tamamono]

It's finally over!

Thank you so much, Masked and K-Nut! You guys did a great job hosting this game - the presentation, sets, and writeups were always superb, and the balance was interesting too, even if it did fall flat a couple of times.

Thank you also to my scum team: MacK, Sisco, Wonder, and badboy! Nightshroud, I didn't really play with you that much, but I guess I took your spot, so I'll thank you too. You guys were all awesome - very helpful, very supportive, and you did your best to stay off most of the towns' scumdars - which was a big part in our winning. I love you guys!

Now, on a slightly less positive note, I'd just like to say that, unless there were some game twists I don't know about yet, that the balance in this game was a bit off. The town had very few actions to begin with, and the scum only had four people + one conversion. Now, you might argue that that balances out well, but like they say, two wrongs don't make a right. In my opinion, the scum should have had five + a conversion, and the town should have had other actions such as vig/tracker/blocker/etc. Just my two cents.

Also, was Wonder always able to joint with us? Because when I was talking about how great it would be to joint, I was mostly joking...

Oh, and Scuba, very sorry if I offended you or anyone else on the Writeboard. The stress was starting to get to me, but that's no excuse, so I'm very truly sorry if my words were harsh. I hope y'all can forgive me. And I'm very sorry if I offended anyone with my cocky attitude when I was accused. In truth, you guys had it all right, so all I could do was AtE and deflect with my big ego.

Well it was fun, depressing, and deserving of many fist shakings at the computer screen while watching from the sidelines. Congratulations to the scum team even though you smelled like rats since day 4, but I guess it's easy from the outside. You did an excellent job on eliminating all those who would suspect you and used your janitor role well. Good game to all of you, can't wait for the next game to play with you all.

Ha ha, thanks, WBD! Yeah, we started to get sloppy at the end there, hence why people started suspecting me more and more as time went on.

Myah myah myah, easy to see since day 4. Well, my hat's off to Tammo for pulling a hood over my eyes for nearly the entire game. His masterful manipulation and buddying up to me kept me completely in the dark, and trusting until two days before my death. At that point, I contemplated the possibility that He could be scum, and then tried to figure out the logistics of that, but I was blinded by all the false info he had been feeding me since day 2. I played completely into his hand, and as he told me in private: "you and Maccoco are probably my greatest allies at this point." If anyone were to look into our PMs, I'd look like a total idiot, and maybe I deserve that. I might have more to say, especially if others talk.

Thank you, Danny! I really had a great time playing with you - even though I was having to play you most of the time. You're a pretty good player and you had some great theories from what I saw, but being fed nothing but false information can majorly screw things up for anyone, so don't feel bad!

Well, that's what I was picking up the last few days. Tammo, no offence, gets a bit cocky when things come together. I noticed it at the end of Red Moon, and again near the end of this Mafia game. I thought it might have been because of what he referred to as "Yes, I can confirm that I'm about 98% sure the last scum/SK is between Foul/Aayla, so we're almost in autowin here."

I thought he meant Town win, but, now I realize that he didn't... say... TOWN!!! That's hilarious! Yes, those PMs did me in big time.

Yup yup yup, I do! And glad you caught that! I was writing that message to you when I realized it had a second meaning to it, but I figured I'd sen it anyway to see if you could figure it out.

Tammo - seriously, nice work. I said it before, I'll say it again: all the pieces fit if you were converted Night One. My head was screaming at me that you were Scum, but then your behavior made my gut heart think otherwise, and the Day ended with my being lynched and telling the Town to trust you.

Thank you! Yeah, having to tiptoe around you and Flipz for all of Day 2 was incredibly hard, and I was always afraid that you two would catch me! Glad to hear that the tables have turned with the guts, though!

Tammo, you did a great job, really, the scum did great converting you, the fact that you were really 'pro-town' on day 1 did a lot of good for you, and it helped you on the following days. On day 5 I should have had it figured out by then, but I did not. The fact that you ignored half of my valid points should have set me off greatly, but I honestly had pretty much stopped caring at that point. You played really dirty, so yeah, you did great. I'm going to go as far and say the scum would never in a million years have won without you.

Thank you very much, Scuba! Yeah, it was hard having to defend against you and Flare (palathadric too, at times), because there wasn't anything logical I could say to most of your points! I had to resort to the AtE I had so much disdain for in Euna!

Congrats to the scum team, and Tammo in particular for a solid, aggressive performance, which no matter what anybody says, was probably no walk in the park.

Thank you so much, def. That means a lot coming from you.

Yeah, it was pretty difficult, and as can be seen on the Writeboard, I came pretty close to giving up a couple of times, but I'm certainly glad I didn't!

Thanks for the compliments, Tammo & Sisco

Oh, you're welcome! You did a fine job, especially since this is only your second game! You were a serious threat to me, and I was actually going to frame someone else with the 'role cop' action, but I figured I needed to get all my accusers on a separate side almost, so I switched to you at the last minute!

Tammo - Honestly, this is your best game yet. I think you now rank among my favorite mafia players. You played all the right cards, so you get a big

Thank you very much, K-Nut!

I hate you, Tammo!

Love you too!

Congratulations to the Sith, Tammo especially.

Thank you, Scorpiox!

self-assesment.

I was crap. I should of been more vocal about my gut feeling the tammo was scum and should not of followed on with the vote against brickdoctor. In future I need to calm down and not be so gulible

I have to agree, this definitely wasn't your best game, but I think you're improving, at least. You just have to remember to be a little more active in the Day threads and in private, and if something doesn't look right to you, don't go along with it.

Thirdly, I played an awful game. I was extremely disappointed with my own performance. Sure I won with the scum team, but that was all Tammo. I barely posted in the day threads and made myself a huge target for suspicion. I only sent a few PMs, all of them to Macoco. The most I did this game was follow Tammo's plan. I also disappeared every now and then for a few days. This shows a lack of class on my part, and I apologize to everyone playing. I'll be sure to try to be more active next time.

Well, real life takes priority over EB, so that's perfectly understandable. You really should have posted more when you were free, but you posted plenty on our Writeboard and I think you did a good job. Just have to force yourself to start replying to everything!

I probably have more to say to everyone, but I'm on vacation at the moment, an my internet is very limited (plus, I'm pretty busy), so I'll say more when I have time.

[K-Nut]

Lastly, thanks for hosting Masked and K-Nut. I think you both did a wonderful job, despite a few mishaps. The sets were nice, and the custom characters were pretty interesting. Sure I was surprised that you let us keep night actions from the dead (I ended up having three by the end of the game), but I don't think that it would've mattered much in the end. I'd gladly play another game hosted by either of you.

Actually, we let you replace your actions, not add on.

[Sisco]

Yes, that's what I meant. I should have phrased it differently.

[K-Nut]

Thank you so much, Masked and K-Nut! You guys did a great job hosting this game - the presentation, sets, and writeups were always superb, and the balance was interesting too, even if it did fall flat a couple of times.

Especially the conclusion, Day Seven, and Day Five. Those days were the best written.

Now, on a slightly less positive note, I'd just like to say that, unless there were some game twists I don't know about yet, that the balance in this game was a bit off. The town had very few actions to begin with, and the scum only had four people + one conversion. Now, you might argue that that balances out well, but like they say, two wrongs don't make a right. In my opinion, the scum should have had five + a conversion, and the town should have had other actions such as vig/tracker/blocker/etc. Just my two cents.

You could say that the Scum had four plus two conversions, one of which they had no power over unless the SK discovered who they were.

Also, was Wonder always able to joint with us? Because when I was talking about how great it would be to joint, I was mostly joking...

Apparently. I was away for one day, when I came back, Masked told BoyWonder that he could join the scum if he found them. I figured that it would be unfair to BoyWonder if we got rid of that option after a host told him about it, so I didn't speak up.

[Masked Builder]

Role PMs have been added to the first post. I'm still trying to catch up on all of the posts here.

[Brickdoctor]

So the ability of the SK to join the Scum as a second Scum killer was just added in the middle of the game, based on a joking suggestion by one of the Scum?

[Masked Builder]

So the ability of the SK to join the Scum as a second Scum killer was just added in the middle of the game, based on a joking suggestion by one of the Scum?

I started contemplating it when the scum started going down hill, then when they asked, I didn't realize they were joking, I said yes.

[def]

I started contemplating it when the scum started going down hill, then when they asked, I didn't realize they were joking, I said yes.

As a host, that's a general no-no. No matter how flailing a team is, on either side, you shouldn't "help" one side mid-game. If you realized the original balance was off, you could tweak something slightly. But in this case, I don't think that was what happened. It seemed that scum simply had an unlucky first few days. That should be their burden to deal with. In my opinion

[Piranha]

Thanks for hosting this game K-Nut and Masked Builder!

Also congrats to the scum team, they played well.

My final thoughts:

I think this game had both my best and worst play to date on an EB game.

I was actually thinking the same thing. I didn't win in Western but survived in the conclusion, in this one I lived the longest I had to date as Town.

I wasn't very pleased with my performance in this game I have to admit. I was right on my first suspicion though, Tamamono was Town on Day 1. Then it sorta went down hill from there.

I was the Town Doctor, my first PR in any game, on Day 1 my town reads were ADHO15 & Tamamono, I decided to pick one of them to tell I was a PR, I went with Tamamono because I figured he knew at least the Psychiatrist and we could coordinate together for the town. If only I had picked ADHO15 instead.

The changing point in the game to me and an excellent move by the scum was to convert Tamamono, because he basically knew all/most of the PR, the scum, the town and later the SK. Therefore he was able to keep us distracted from the real scum in the following days. Of course I blindly followed the direction he provided on who to protect, not wanting to interfere with the other PR. I knew someone was probably converted on Night 1, because I knew who I protected and they weren't targeted that Night, so unless there was a Town Blocker, that was the only other option. Unfortunately I had convinced myself that Tamamono was Town. My reasoning was that I would have been dead already if he wasn't and the whole getting 1 or 2 scum to get a good position in the Town, I couldn't believe.

All that said, I was extremely close to protecting Dannylonglegs on Night 6, but Tamamono convinced me that ADHO15 would be a better target. The sad part was he had previously told me a few days earlier about the PGO being ADHO15, and honestly I did not realize that was an actual mafia role and didn't look it up, I thought it was a joke or whatever. I think he had also told me about all the other PR, including a Vouyer and Role Cop on Day 2, so when Day 6 came along I had no reason to doubt those roles existed. I was actually in communication with the scum and didn't even know it on the last few days.

I still think we could have won, had I opted to protect Dannylonglegs instead, because then me, him and ADHO15 would have lived and I would have known the Vouyer and Role Cop were scum because they both had told me in PM that they were those roles and even confirmed each other. I also would have realized that Tamamono was a scum too.

So yes, the breakdown of the town was complicated, mitigated by the fact we only had 3 real PR, the scum got 2 night kills, plus inherited all the other scums actions, if the janitor had not been given to the scum after badboytje88 was lynched, Brickdoctor would have turned up Town and we would have lynched Tamamono.

I blame Hinckley.

+1.

[Nightshroud99]

Thank you for hosting this game K-Nut and Masked Builder.

Congratulations to my team for winning, especially Tammamono for his exemplary performance, you are truly an ace player. Also, a good job overall for town, even though many of you seemed to follow Tammo without questioning, even after he began to lynch townies.

It really was lucky that MacK was able to convert Tammo night 1, because as you can see in Day 1 all of us were in the hot seat. It was truly looking to turn into a sith massacre Funnily enough, even my sacrifice seemed to work out with the lynch of BrickDoctor But, as a whole, I wasn't too please with my meager performance.

I think the reason there wasn't a Jedi Vigilante is because the Jedi don't kill, except for Anakin But, I don't presume to understand the way the host set up the game. It was still pretty well done in my opinion.

Oh and Tammo I think you overused the head banging emote, which I believe someone called you out for because it was suspicious. In fact, I don't understand why you didn't get lycnhed for it because every day at the beginning you'd post the same doo-daa about so and so lying, or not being Sith, then repeatedly slam your head into a brick wall. :wall: :wall: :wall: