2013 Train Sets

[andythenorth]

If no, what shall they do either ? Buy other city sets ? Or better buy non-Lego gifts ?

Buy fire engines. Trains are not a safe bet, who knows if the child has a train set, is this train compatible etc? Whereas a fire engine is always a safe bet. So buy the fire engine. This is why Lego now mostly only make fire engines for City

[Carrera124]

Buy fire engines. Trains are not a safe bet, who knows if the child has a train set, is this train compatible etc?

Well, I assume that the grandparents etc. know that the child has a train set. And wagons should be compatible with every train system Lego ever released.

Whereas a fire engine is always a safe bet. So buy the fire engine. This is why Lego now mostly only make fire engines for City

Good idea Maybe Lego will rename the "City" theme to "Firemen" soon.

[Hrw-Amen]

I would actually be quite pleased if all those people who wanted to buy me a present for my birthday or Christmas etc bought me a LEGO City set, (Even if it was a fire engine.) as although I like LEGO Trains, I like I imagine most other people want some sort of diorama for the trains to run around in. Therefore a prolific amount of vehicles, modular buildings etc is always welcome. Even if it is a set i have already the parts are good for the bricks in them can always be used for something else.

In my experience people such as elderly relatives will not even think of buying LEGO as a gift, they would much rather give me a shirt that is two sizes to small, or some crappy soap that i am never going to use.Even though they know full well what i like they will not buy it!! It is very infuriating indeed, I have often said I want money as I am saving to buy X or Y. Then when the time comes I get a woolly jumper! Hideous!!

But in all seriousness, I don't think things are that bad, we have access to bits ourselves which we can buy on-line easily. Not only that, I don't know about anyone else, but if LEGO brought out say a dozen train sets or creator trains even, every year would we have enough funds to buy them all? I am pretty sure I would not, certainly not at the rate of £60-£70 a train and another £30-£40 to get it running!!

[Toastie]

Hey Steinkopf and Carrera124,

what I really appreciate is the passion and dedication you are putting into this discussion. There are a lot of good points in both of your replies. As far as I am concerned both of you are right. I also believe that the folks at TLG have made their homework. Well, homework sometimes should go directly into the trash - at least with my students that is. And yes, that we should build our very own models, since this is what LEGO is all about. And that the internet is a reality - even a lot of grand parents have figured it out. Bley, ditching 9V trains, making train noses that resemble Playmobile rather than LEGO parts ... they not only survived but they are doing well right now.

One thing that is always important to me: TLG folks are just that: Folks running a high powered company. Sometimes I have the feeling, they function like any other large company that somewhat lifted off the ground: Super smart financial power players from Denmark at the top, ingenious builders dwelling somewhere, and then all the people making it happen. But they are not necessarily logically responding to our very own observations and wishes - the folks at the top apparently see the big picture, which is apparently much more complicated then we all believe. I doubt that. It is just the pieces of information they have that we don't have. Or at least I don't have. Don't know about you guys, I am to no extent in any reliable information loop if there is any.

Again: From a purely logical standpoint I can easily follow almost every of your arguments. Provided the numbers we are all speculating about would not be just that: Speculations. At this point the discussion may always take sharp turns; provided this is right then that is wrong etc. TLG wisely hides this critical information; too much competition and blah blah.

One thing though is certainly true: They are the Gods of LEGO bricks, yes, but that really is all. Everything else is pretty much business ground work. And of course some lucky or unlucky decisions - we have seem them all, including bringing TLG to the verge of going out of business ...

I enjoyed your discussion very much! I learned a lot form both of you. This is another good reason to be a proud member of the Eurobricks community.

Thanks a lot and best regards,

Thorsten

[Kaila]

Nicely said Toastie. Perhaps Lego could compromise and produce a 'fire fighter train'

Edited October 30, 2012 by Kaila

[Carrera124]

Well, we already got a monster figher train 9467

[Kaila]

Well, we already got a monster figher train 9467

Yeah lol guess we do Funny thing for me is I picked that moster train set up locally thanks to a stocking error for only $59 Au.. posted about it on our local forum and heaps of people then bought it for the same price and started running 9v conversions

Edited October 31, 2012 by Kaila

[Diamondback]

Actually, once you strip off the utterly ludicrous stuff behind it and the "scary" details, and add an appropriate tender, viewing it through the eyes of a serious railroad historian 9467's locomotive is a nicely detailed and pretty darn "close to right" representation of an 1860s to turn-of-the-20th-Century 4-4-0 "American Standard" or "Eight-Wheeler" type. With a little work, could probably be stretched into a pretty decent 4-6-0 Ten-Wheeler (did anybody ELSE notice those new and unused un-flanged "blind drivers" in the pack of train wheels?) or 4-4-2 Atlantic. (Both take a longer boiler, and the Atlantic would need a deeper firebox over the 2-wheel trailing truck.)

And, I'm actually thinking of using it as a "template" for enlargement to 10-wide (my preferred scale to design in, it's 1 stud = 1' and roughly the right scale to have a minifig-compatible 'scale' model), with an eye toward if I can ever find enough data on it recreating the 1893 Empire State Express that made New York Central & Hudson River Railroad engineer Charlie Hogan the Chuck Yeager of his day, the first man to break 100 miles per hour. The locomotive itself, NYC&HR 999, still exists today and is on display at Museum of Science & Industry in Chicago, but has considerably changed from its configuration that day--the original 86" drive wheels were replaced with 79's when downgraded into commuter service, and the connecting rods that once ran from piston to main-rod have been disconnected if not outright removed and scrapped. The real barrier to modeling is the train behind, and the utter lack of information about passenger cars of all types, not just coaches but parlors, diners et cetera, from that time--right up to the end of private passenger rail it was rare that any two railroads ever ordered cars to an exactly identical design, closest to it being the Pullman 4140 10-roomette/6-double bedroom sleeper and its stainless-steel Edward G. Budd-built counterparts, and I would expect that back in the 1800s it was even WORSE without assembly-line techniques, possibly even to no two individual CARS in the same TRAIN being built identically.

Whoa, Holy Data Vomit, Batman! LOL

Edited November 2, 2012 by Diamondback

[legobanker]

I too want to make a list to Santa....

I would like the PF components to get as far as possible away from the trains! I would like 9V reintroduced along with the 12V accessories (ofcourse converted to 9V).

I second that.

[El H]

It will never happen. Why revert to a system that was abandoned 2 generations of motor ago?

[Phoxtane]

I'd like to see different colors of covers for the AAA battery box, myself. Currently, as far as I am aware, there's only a dark grey and red cover for it - meaning that to integrate one into your model, you either have to build around the box or integrate large amounts of red or dark grey into the walls, as well as a light grey stripe down the side.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Phoxtane

[Toastie]

It will never happen.

Agreed.

Why revert to a system that was abandoned 2 generations of motor ago?

Easy: Because that system was superior to everything else coming about.

(I know, I know, don't beat me up, it is simply like that - Money money money, always funny, in a rich men's world ...)

Regards,

Thorsten

[Phoxtane]

Easy: Because that system was superior to everything else coming about.

I'll politely disagree. I think that the PF system has its own challenges - namely, how to add a battery box without making it obvious you've done so - but it's got advantages over the 9v system as well.

For example, you can run multiple trains in different directions on the same loop or section of rail, and you don't get current drop-off in far sections of the track. The track is cheaper to make for Lego, and you don't have to worry about the rails oxidising over the years. The new drive wheels can be mounted to more things than the train wheels, like custom drive units for locomotives that require a bit more torque.

What's most important in my eyes is that Lego doesn't make the 9v train stuff anymore. You can buy brand-new PF train equipment relatively cheaply - If you want a new 9v motor, you'll have to shell out 65 USD for a new one!

[Toastie]

Hi Phoxtane

I'll politely disagree. I think that the PF system has its own challenges - namely, how to add a battery box without making it obvious you've done so - but it's got advantages over the 9v system as well.

Shoot, I saw this one coming ... but you are right of course! There are many, many up and downsides of PF and they have been amply discussed. What you said is entirely true. The only thing is that IF 9V would not have been discontinued then you would not have to pay +60€/$ for a 9V motor; track in these days was also reasonably priced, and so on. But it has been and so this is all history.

I can very well live with the PF stuff as well. Actually I really like it. But as an add-on rather than a replacement. Recently baught some 9V straights in perfect condition for €2.30 a piece ...

Best regards,

Thorsten

[andythenorth]

I'd like to see different colors of covers for the AAA battery box, myself

+1

Blue, green, black, yellow

[Carrera124]

+1.

[Hrw-Amen]

Would also like to see those battery box done in other colours. It would be good when ordering one if you could specify the colour you wanted, or at least have a couple of choices in the bag with it. I guess that would make it more expensive though. They could sell the innards as one lot and a coloured box as a separate lot under the PF tab on shop at home.

[Steinkopf]

Rather than providing different coloured battery boxes I would like to see a whole new design of battery box, I floated an idea several years ago when Gambort was asking for feedback and ideas during the developmental stages of PF Trains. The battery boxes would be a plate thinner in thickness on each side, the sides would be studded to allow for tiles or other elements to be attached to them giving the builder a wide range of options as far as details are concerned whilst still maintaining a 4 stud wide size, it could be black in colour so that if you used grille tiles it would give a nice effect of vents for the engine bay. Having a battery box like that would provide a more flexible building platform, especially if building the narrow hood sections of US style diesels or European branchline locomotives or shunters. A good example is imagine if a battery box like that was available to use on the locomotive in the 3667 Red Cargo Train set which is inspired by the MaK/Vossloh G series locomotives, the level of detail that could be achieved would be much higher, to me the current battery box in 3667 limits the detailing potential of that train due to it's chunky proportion and sheer size.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Steinkopf

[pinioncorp]

The battery boxes would be a plate thinner in thickness on each side, the sides would be studded to allow for tiles or other elements to be attached to [it]

That is an awesome idea. But I do wonder if that much space could have been removed and still fit the batteries in.

[Lazarus]

I convert all the currect PF trains into 9v to make them look a little better and me not have to use batterys. 3667 Red Cargo Train looks very nice in 9v i put some extra detail where the battery box should of been.

[zephyr1934]

The battery boxes would be a plate thinner in thickness on each side, the sides would be studded to allow for tiles or other elements to be attached to them giving the builder a wide range of options as far as details are concerned whilst still maintaining a 4 stud wide size

I argued almost the same point when the rechargeable box came out (though I had not thought about narrowing the box by one plate width). I would still like to see studs on the side. Even if they can't make the box any smaller, it would be fantastic if lego produced a second mold for the AAA box that had studs on the side. Alternatively, they could inset a full plate at the bottom and add two rows of studs there. Then one could cover these two rows with tiles or plates depending on whether you wanted studs or not. You would still be a little constrained to snotting tiles vertically, but it would be a lot more versatile than the current box (just look at the huge tiles on the Maersk engine). Though I think we could replicate that effect now by pitching the box itself and just using the AAA top.

[Diamondback]

Or, if you're running multi-unit cab units, there's always what Electro-Motive did on the original Model F that evolved into the FT: put the battery box inside the B-unit (which you'd leave unpowered, and run jumper cables across to the cab--the Model F was designed for the two units of each 2700-horsepower half to only be separated when disassembled in the shop.)

[El H]

Or, if you're running multi-unit cab units, there's always what Electro-Motive did on the original Model F that evolved into the FT: put the battery box inside the B-unit (which you'd leave unpowered, and run jumper cables across to the cab--the Model F was designed for the two units of each 2700-horsepower half to only be separated when disassembled in the shop.)

The issue is how do you conceal the quite bulky cable from the B-unit to the cab?

[Diamondback]

Simple... real diesels have cables running between them under each corner when running in a multi-unit lashup. Just use that as cover, or for old-school early "Covered Wagons" with diaphragms around their end doors you could run 'em throguh those if you run closely coupled. (Which takes having a straight between every two curve tracks, but...)

[legoboy3998]

I found the simpler solution is to just you stickers to cover the battery box. using tiles sideways would make stripes harder to line up.

Can you find the rechargeable battery box?

Sal

WFB, WI