9398 - Lego Technic 4x4 Crawler

[timslegos]

Witf diffs and such low ground clearance?

Its not that bad! It could definitely be made higher.

My improvements to make it trtr ready:

1. remove return to center steering

2. remove diff

3. Maybe add more gearing

4. lighten the body

5. make axles more compact

tim

[davidmull]

Its not that bad! It could definitely be made higher.

My improvements to make it trtr ready:

1. remove return to center steering

2. remove diff

3. Maybe add more gearing

4. lighten the body

5. make axles more compact

tim

I agree the axles are very bulky and even look out of place,why would u remove the return to center steering when we're years looking for this :)

[jorgeopesi]

Few things I'm wondering about? Iv asked before be didn't really get a good answer :) I know there is lots of truck trial people on here and they would have more experience!

1) Do ye think this crawler could Or be able to do some real hard work on real trials?

2) Do ye think that this crawler will be able to be as good running power puller wheels?

These are the main things playing on my mind about this set,maybe Lego might put a picture saying not for outdoor use like they did with 8043 in sand!

Any taughts on these 2 questions would be great :)

I have done 5 trials... Answer to the second question, I think with more reduction it will be able to work with the power puller wheels, but let we see the real power of the new motors.

Question 2, nobody who likes to do trials will use a lego set for competition, the fun is to built your own truck I think another time . It would be good to compare the set with a good trial to know what good it is... but... who has got a winner trial truck?, in each country we have diferent rules for competition so it is imposible to say mine is better than yours...

Edited February 15, 2012 by jorgeopesi

[Sam42]

The inclusion of diffs surprised me but it the effect of no diffs is quite noticeable on a crawler of this scale, so I could understand the Lego group making this decision. Shouldn't be to hard to recitfy though anyway..

It's looking more and more like the two axle motors are for drive, with the steering going through the mog ball joints perhaps? This would stop the torque from the drive train snapping u joints or CVs lall the time..

The location of the steering racks makes this more plausible, however it goes against the pieces mounted on the front of the axle motors being the return to centre mechanism which had at one point been a theory. But then again they could just be mount pieces like the ones for L.A.s.

Whatever the case is, I can't wait to get my hands on some of these new motors!!

[timslegos]

The inclusion of diffs surprised me but it the effect of no diffs is quite noticeable on a crawler of this scale, so I could understand the Lego group making this decision. Shouldn't be to hard to recitfy though anyway..

It's looking more and more like the two axle motors are for drive, with the steering going through the mog ball joints perhaps? This would stop the torque from the drive train snapping u joints or CVs lall the time..

The location of the steering racks makes this more plausible, however it goes against the pieces mounted on the front of the axle motors being the return to centre mechanism which had at one point been a theory. But then again they could just be mount pieces like the ones for L.A.s.

Whatever the case is, I can't wait to get my hands on some of these new motors!!

Look at the picture i posted above...

tim

[Sam42]

Look at the picture i posted above...

tim

I've seen it, all the evidence points that way, maybe we'll get some confirmation from the next couple of toy fairs...

[davidmull]

I've seen it, all the evidence points that way, maybe we'll get some confirmation from the next couple of toy fairs...

When would u think we might get better info pictures on the crawler? Did someone not say this won't show up at some of the toy fairs!

[DLuders]

I saw NXT-Bots' 6 photos on his Brickshelf gallery that showed a "Technic to RC Type Servo Mount" made from a slightly-modified 64179 "Technic, Liftarm 5 x 7 Open Center Thick" piece. Do you think that TLG may have done something similar for the rumored SERVO MOTOR in the 9398 4x4 Crawler set? NXT-Bots wrote:

"I have tried a number of methods of mounting Radio Control type Servo Motors to Lego Technics models over the years. Non were overly successful due to alignment issues mostly. Then in the wee hours this morning, whilst trying to sleep, the answer hits me. Out of bed I jumped (tip-toed) because finally there was a solution, thanks to Lego's new Part #64179: Gray Technic, Lift-arm with 5 x 7 Open Centre. 55gram RC Servo Motors fit tightly inside these new frames, accepting the Servo output shaft doesn't align with the mounting holes in the 5 x 7 Lift-arm Frame. But this is a relatively easy fix that takes about 10 minutes, plus a day for the glue to reach full strength.

"The most difficult part I have found with the whole exercise was finding a suitable way of adapting the Nylon Servo Horns to Technics components like Pulleys, Gears and Beams. Shown above is a large Technic Gear mounted onto a large round Servo Horn by drilling 3/16" holes in the Horn and using Lego Technic Pins to to join the two parts together. If I'm not attaching to the Servo via a Lego Technics shaft, I used a long screw into the Servos drive-shaft to hold the Gear and horn Together. But as my Servo Drive-shafts are brass, I find that in 90% of applications the screw isn't necessary I've found that the MG995 Hi-Speed, Torque, Metal Geared RC Servo[/url][/i] available for around $10 each, to be very suited to this application. These Servos also work well with the Mindsensor 8 Channel Servo Controller for NXT NXTServo-v2. These servos have very powerful Coreless Motors producing 13kg at 1cm on 4.8v batteries or 15kg on a 6v battery. In fact, there's enough torque available to brake Lego parts.

"To start the process of mounting the Radio Control Servo into the Technics Frame with correct alignment of it's drive shaft, you need to get out your Minicraft, Dremel, or Proxxon (Die Grinder) out to grind away some of the Technic frame at one end as shown below.

"For the full details on the 'Easy, Solid Mounting of RC Servo Motors to Technics', please visit my blog: http://www.rjmcnamara.com/2010/12/04/technics-mount-rc-type-servo-motors/ ."

Edited February 18, 2012 by DLuders

[jacobkristensen]

Hi - I been at LEGOWORLD 2012 Copenhagen today, and as expected the Crawler was not displayed!

But I got loads of 1080p videos including one of a big container crane. But they are too big for uploading to youtube on 1Mbps connection.

But later this week I will see if I can find a faster connection and get them uploaded.

[timslegos]

cant wait to see them. What is the container truck?

tim

[Alasdair Ryan]

cant wait to see them. What is the container truck?

tim

Logging truck.

[davidmull]

Is there a reason these other toy fairs are not showing the crawler?

[jacobkristensen]

Tim - Like most container cranes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_crane

I think I have seen a lego crane using the same concept sometime on youtube.

[DLuders]

Is there a reason these other toy fairs are not showing the crawler?

Good question. Neither the 9398 4x4 Crawler nor the 9396 Helicopter were shown at the most-recent toy fairs (the February 10-13 Toy Fair 13 in New York and now the Lego World 2012 in Copenhagen). Perhaps these two large Technic set designs are being "tweaked" in response to AFOL feedback here and on other Technic fan sites. Maybe they are being improved? There's still PLENTY OF TIME (5+ months) before the 2H2012 release in August 2012....

[jacobkristensen]

Good question. Neither the 9398 4x4 Crawler nor the 9396 Helicopter were shown at the most-recent toy fairs (the February 10-13 Toy Fair 13 in New York and now the Lego World 2012 in Copenhagen). Perhaps these two large Technic set designs are being "tweaked" in response to AFOL feedback here and on other Technic fan sites. Maybe they are being improved? There's still PLENTY OF TIME (5+ months) before the 2H2012 release in August 2012....

Having seen legoworld, I wouldn't call it a fair. It more of a convention/gathering. There are huge playzones(like kids making red duplo boxes and hiding in them), and small pink themed catwalk. Along with a host of other thing, including a expensive lego store.

[Pauger]

Good question. Neither the 9398 4x4 Crawler nor the 9396 Helicopter were shown at the most-recent toy fairs (the February 10-13 Toy Fair 13 in New York and now the Lego World 2012 in Copenhagen). Perhaps these two large Technic set designs are being "tweaked" in response to AFOL feedback here and on other Technic fan sites. Maybe they are being improved? There's still PLENTY OF TIME (5+ months) before the 2H2012 release in August 2012....

Ehm... really? It sounds a bit weird to me that the designers should listen to random subjective opinions, stated by people who have just seen pictures ans short videos. They would probably ask for opinions if they needed it, not try to (half-hearted) hide the sets.

[DLuders]

Well maybe the TOY DISTRIBUTORS who saw the Lego Technic "flagship" sets with their own eyes commented on the 4x4 Crawler's wierd color scheme, or the Helicopter's inability to adjust the pitch of the rotor blades while they are rotating. They are the ones who will be ORDERING these sets in bulk to resell to their retail customers. If they were not impressed at the Toy Fairs, then TLG may have to go "back to the drawing board".

Edited February 19, 2012 by DLuders

[dhc6twinotter]

...or the Helicopter's inability to adjust the pitch of the rotor blades while they are rotating.

The helicopter doesn't have the ability to change pitch while the blades are rotating? First I've heard of that. That would be lame.

[davidmull]

WHY THE megablocking HELL DOES THIS CURSED(LIKE IN COMPUTERIZED megablocks), SHIFTS BETWEEN FIVE AND ELEVEN PAGES?

What are u on about?

Well maybe the TOY DISTRIBUTORS who saw the Lego Technic "flagship" sets with their own eyes commented on the 4x4 Crawler's wierd color scheme, or the Helicopter's inability to adjust the pitch of the rotor blades while they are rotating. They are the ones who will be ORDERING these sets in bulk to resell to their retail customers. If they were not impressed at the Toy Fairs, then TLG may have to go "back to the drawing board".

I agree!

[dhc6twinotter]

WHY THE megablocking HELL DOES THIS CURSED(LIKE IN COMPUTERIZED megablocks), SHIFTS BETWEEN FIVE AND ELEVEN PAGES?

It sounds like you are clicking the "last>>" button instead of the right arrow button to get to the next page.

[vmln8r]

Perhaps these two large Technic set designs are being "tweaked" in response to AFOL feedback here and on other Technic fan sites. Maybe they are being improved? There's still PLENTY OF TIME (5+ months) before the 2H2012 release in August 2012....

It's clear from the Toy Fair videos that some of Lego's reps don't have a clue about the intricacies of the sets on display - so they're perhaps not the best people to relay feedback to the designers.

I don't see the logic behind complaining about the crawler's colour scheme. This is an opportunity to get parts in new colours. If they aren't to your taste, then swap them out for something else.

[jorgeopesi]

I think Lego sets don´t need to be perfect, they have to be a base for our work. Ours MOCs have to pursue the complexity not the design for children, until a few days I didn´t know what was cyclical or collective do not believe that a child missing them. If Lego did everything perfect... what would we do? .

[Pauger]

Well maybe the TOY DISTRIBUTORS who saw the Lego Technic "flagship" sets with their own eyes commented on the 4x4 Crawler's wierd color scheme, or the Helicopter's inability to adjust the pitch of the rotor blades while they are rotating. They are the ones who will be ORDERING these sets in bulk to resell to their retail customers. If they were not impressed at the Toy Fairs, then TLG may have to go "back to the drawing board".

The colour scheme is just a matter of taste, and rock crawlers are supposed to look a bit crazy. I haven't heard about the faulty rotor blades either, how do you know?

I'm not denying that the sets are being refined, I just think that the designers are their own heads, they know their models best.

[DLuders]

I haven't heard about the faulty rotor blades either, how do you know?

We're getting a bit off-topic now, but if you look at the Comments on the first article in this TechnicBRICKS sequence (all describing the upcoming 9396 Helicopter set), Mark Bellis wrote: "It's doubtful there's cyclic pitch change. I think it's one of the first things some of us will try once we've built the set. The loss of the flex system and the 8856 swash plate parts has hindered this. I wonder how much more it would have cost TLG to include it. At least one prototype would have included it if the model builders were trying!"

In the second TechnicBRICKS article linked above, Fernando Correia wrote: "While the Collective Control seems almost granted (all blades seem to be at the same pitch in the pictures), the existence of a kind of swash plate for Cyclic Control seems a lot less probable (I'm crossing my fingers...)."

[Brickthus]

The colour scheme is just a matter of taste, and rock crawlers are supposed to look a bit crazy. I haven't heard about the faulty rotor blades either, how do you know?

I'm not denying that the sets are being refined, I just think that the designers are their own heads, they know their models best.

Please be careful with words like "faulty". There is no fault that I know of. I believe there will be some movement of blade pitch, so it fulfils its design intent and works as well as expected. It's definitely not in the category of the 8043 excavator with its original (now fixed) LA internal shredding problem!

I think we agree that a designer would show off all the great features better than the people whose skills are primarily sales and diplomacy at shows. I think designers' pride in their work would make sure everyone knew how cool it is - same as many of us do with our MOCs!

We're getting a bit off-topic now, but if you look at the Comments on the first article in this TechnicBRICKS sequence (all describing the upcoming 9396 Helicopter set), Mark Bellis wrote: "It's doubtful there's cyclic pitch change. I think it's one of the first things some of us will try once we've built the set. The loss of the flex system and the 8856 swash plate parts has hindered this. I wonder how much more it would have cost TLG to include it. At least one prototype would have included it if the model builders were trying!"

In the second TechnicBRICKS article linked above, Fernando Correia wrote: "While the Collective Control seems almost granted (all blades seem to be at the same pitch in the pictures), the existence of a kind of swash plate for Cyclic Control seems a lot less probable (I'm crossing my fingers...)."

Let me explain why I doubt there's cyclic pitch change. It's easy to quote an opinion but it's important to understand the rationale. I built a replica rotor with the parts I could see or discern from the pictures and videos. I didn't go as far as dokludi in attempting to build the whole helicopter. I discerned that the blade mount is solid and should be good for the load spinning fast. Hence a new generation of MOC helicopters is possible.

The parts at the bottom of the ball joint links are divided into 2 sets, one for each pair of adjacent blades. Theoretically this could still be used for both collective and cyclic pitch but it's complicated. For collective pitch, which I think there is, 1M of rise in the mechanism is required. Comparing the various pictures it is possible to discern that this is provided. For cyclic pitch though, there would have to be a tilt in the bit in the middle, on the rotor's rotational axis, and that tilt would have to remain static as the rotor rotated. This is not possible given the four vertical studless beams, which leave only a cross shape, not a circle, as the possible area for blade pitch controls to move in.

I think it would be possible to design a rotor system with both collective and cyclic pitch on the basis of the one in the set but that will be left up to us to do in a MOC. After all, the 9396 system will be an improvement on all previous sets because it will have 4-blade individually-actuated collective pitch. To have cyclic as well would justify another £10 in cost of the set when I hope TLG are still consumer-cost-conscious!

I still measure Technic sets in number of functions vs. cost. Anything more than £10 per function and it's no more than a parts pack. The Unimog has 15 for about £150 (steering, 2 suspension, 3 diffs (i.e. 2 driven axles), engine, cab tilt, compressor, 2 function changers and 4-function crane). I don't count simple door opening as a function; the crane outriggers, motor and pneumatics are a welcome bonus. The helicopter has wheel retract, ramp, collective pitch, main rotor rotation, tail rotor and then starts to struggle to justify any more cost. However, my Apache, which has collective and cyclic pitch as well as collective tail rotor pitch from the rudder pedals, would have cost a lot more - it would also need months of rebuilding to get up to modern studless set standard!

See if there's a helicopter round in the next Technic competition (next year?). Then we'll see who can do cyclic pitch as well! To remove that "holy grail" from the community by putting it in a set would have been a bad thing. People would have thought "Now that TLG have done it, there's nothing left for us to do". What we have is a big hint as to how to do it without the 8856 swash plate parts, which is the encouragement the community needs. Therefore TLG have done what's best for us and I respect them for it. I just hope the set price is keen!

Mark