Baritones 3: Day Three

[Dragonator]

Stanislav (Shadows): 3 votes (Waterbrick Down, Zepher, Sandy)

Umm, does anyone else find it odd that all of a sudden Samuel's vote counts?

[Quarryman]

Well, this is all a mess, I'll need some more time to go over what people have been saying before placing a vote. But it's great to see that the poisoner (whoever that person is aligned with, if any) took out a scum for us, thanks a lot poisoner.

[def]

As for Denis, I'm going to be perfectly honest here. He has a problem and has had one for a long time. He takes any opportunity to oppose me, whether I agree or disagree with him in any situation, whether I talk a lot or a little, whatever I do is wrong in his eyes. I could document this if I wanted to waste the time. He always finds a way to turn whatever into a reason to accuse me, but he never has the balls to do it first, he waits for someone else then supports them using cautious language designed to avoid blame when it goes wrong. To be blunt, it's so transparent that four different people have written me about it over the course of these last few games of life and asked what he has against me. I have an idea, but honestly, it isn't worth the bother.

I see you're grasping at straws at this point. Let's be straight about the situation. I have no grudge against you. I was under the impression I had apologized for any past insult to you. If I hadn't done it clearly enough, let me restate it: I'm sorry. I was in the wrong. My fault. But that was in the past. I'm not gunning for you any more than I am any other scum-looking guy. Day one, Petr was looking scummy. Was that a grudge on my part too?

My only issue is with how scummy you look now. And you can't use past lives to explain it away.

I think I was straight forward with my case too. Your reply was even scummier-looking, ignoring what I'd said and, well, being scummy. So I clearly replied, and you just ignore it and try to metagame reframe the argument to say I can't call you out on your behavior. It's a worthwhile attempt, and I promise not to hold any grudge for it

And for the record, in that past game of life, if I recall correctly, you killed me, then in the bizarre twist that I came back to life, you tried to kill me a second time So, in that case, I had an issue with you, but at the same time, in the pleasant game world, I had every reason to go after you. What's the phrase... "I could document this if I wanted to waste the time."

I was going to hold off on this, or maybe proxy, since I'll be going to bed early, but between your inconsistent behavior in the town so far, and your desperate arguing today, you seem to be the best choice.

Vote: Stanislav (Shadows)

[Shadows]

I can't call you out on your behavior.

Oh, you certainly can, the problem is when you go over my words with a fine toothed comb (not my phrase there, it came from someone who wrote me and observed the same phenomenon) and don't apply the same standard all around. Did you happen to notice anyone else who was suspicious as you devoted the required hours to reading everything by everyone?

The timing is a little funny as well, given that someone has accused another of being the scum killer and as soon as I vote for that person, I'm attacked and the whole matter is derailed into huge posts from multiple people making so many points that all I can do to reply is go line by line, further muddying the issue. It certainly doesn't encourage people to try to help the town and vote. We've experienced the tragedy of not voting now, so any doubts I may have ever had about it are out the window, I do not want to see another full moon, it can only be a bigger disaster than even a wrong but well intended vote.

I haven't even tried to argue, I've just been stuck replying to a lot of comments. You should see me when I argue.

Thanks for the vote.

Umm, does anyone else find it odd that all of a sudden Samuel's vote counts?

Now now, don't distract from the issue at hand, ignore the completely suspicious and bizarre circumstances surrounding someone not being able to vote for two days and their magical recovery of that ability. Also ignore that he wrote me asking about it and then tried to use his contact as an indication that there is something wrong with me.

[def]

Oh, you certainly can, the problem is when you go over my words with a fine toothed comb (not my phrase there, it came from someone who wrote me and observed the same phenomenon) and don't apply the same standard all around. Did you happen to notice anyone else who was suspicious as you devoted the required hours to reading everything by everyone?

Yup, day one, Petr. And I detailed that too. Here you go: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58660&view=findpost&p=1046231

And I was suspicious of Samuel too. But at this point, I think they're town.

And I took note of Ruxana being particularly useless.

1. http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58660&view=findpost&p=1047394

compared with

2. http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58848&view=findpost&p=1048746

But being useless isn't being scummy.

Others, like Raya and Falicia, have seemed quite wise and pro-town in their comments, so I don't document them so much.

So, yes, I'm paying attention to as much as I can.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar, and you sir are a scummy-looking cigar It's nothing personal, I can't express it enough.

[Dragonator]

Is anyone else seeing how ridiculous this situation is?

Let's break it down, all these long rambling posts are just confusing people.

Facts:

Donil targeted Yuri last night, which he has himself admitted to.

Yuri is dead.

Samuel can suddenly vote.

Claims:

Donil claims to be a "snoop", whatever that is meant to be.

Denis seems to think Stanislav is a bit "scummy" looking.

If there is anything else, I can't find it in all the mindless blather.

Denis, could you sum up in a few sentences exactly what it is you find suspicious about Stanislav? Because you've rambled a lot, but I can't actually see what the problem is. You think it's bad that he wants a conviction today? Don't we all want a conviction today? I sure as hell do. Is it because he voted for Donil, our prime suspect for the day? Is there a reason then you aren't also pointing fingers at Ruxana, the person that provided the evidence/suspicions that Stanislav has based his vote on? Are you seriously voting for him because he looks vaguely scummy when we actually have a lead and evidence that indicates we have found the scum killer?

[Pandora]

Is anyone else seeing how ridiculous this situation is?

Yes, I'm thinking this is strange too.

I actually believe that Stanislav has made some sensible points, but that Denis has been keen to drive us all in a direction of his choosing. But today isn't so much about Stan and Den, it's more about Ruxana and Donil.

I'm ready to vote and I don't think we can pass up the opportunity to get rid of a potential scum killer. Even if you're a weak tracker, as you claim Donil, that's more of a scum role - one that would be easy to claim if another in your cabal had a similar role and they could coach you on it.

Vote: Donil (Waterbrick Down)

We really should be focussed on the matter in hand.

[def]

Denis, could you sum up in a few sentences exactly what it is you find suspicious about Stanislav? Because you've rambled a lot, but I can't actually see what the problem is. You think it's bad that he wants a conviction today? Don't we all want a conviction today? I sure as hell do. Is it because he voted for Donil, our prime suspect for the day? Is there a reason then you aren't also pointing fingers at Ruxana, the person that provided the evidence/suspicions that Stanislav has based his vote on? Are you seriously voting for him because he looks vaguely scummy when we actually have a lead and evidence that indicates we have found the scum killer?

I thought I was pretty concise. Any rambling sensation is simply a matter of having to deal with Stanislav's lengthy "defense" of himself. Actually, I find it strange you'd single me out as rambling when I certainly haven't said the most today, and probably not the second most today.

I'll try to keep it short

Read this:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59026&view=findpost&p=1053333

I thought he was worth keeping an eye on, nothing more, nothing less.

Then here:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59026&view=findpost&p=1053389

His defense was first to create a strawman argument, and ignore my other points. I think if he had said that he could see why it looked suspicious I would have moved on, but he went to such an effort to dismiss the points, it was a bit of a scum flail.

And then of course, his next argument was that I have a problem with him, therefore my opinion was not relevant.

Misrepresent, ignore, and metagame. None of those are convincing to me. Looks like a desperate scum flail. He's already gotten three votes, so it seems fair to place mine as the fourth.

How's that? Being the fourth vote on someone with a number of clear reasons makes sense to me. Are you saying there is nothing suspicious in his behavior?

I actually believe that Stanislav has made some sensible points, but that Denis has been keen to drive us all in a direction of his choosing. But today isn't so much about Stan and Den, it's more about Ruxana and Donil.

I honestly am not trying to steer people in any direction. Sorry if you think so. I didn't bring up Stanislav for any reason but to point out some suspicious behavior. And I don't get why I'm being singled out when four people voted for him, and I was the last

Oh well.

[Fugazi]

While I still don't find Donil's role claim very convincing, I'd be willing to postpone a vote until he has a chance of being proven innocent, provided that:

- there is a solid, foolproof plan to prove his innocence, and

- there is no chance that he could use the time he's been given to kill someone else.

You do realise that a scum will do anything to be given one more night in order to kill or help his team in any way he can. So I'm not going to let Donil off the hook until the previous two conditions are met satisfactorily. I don't ask that such a plan be made public, as it would only help the scum fool it, but at least that credible townies vouch that a logical solution has been found.

As for Stanislav's case, I have a feeling that there's more going on behind the scenes that is obvious. Such a strong accusation coming from multiple directions is possibly backed by evidence I'm not aware of, so I'll wait for more until I decide how to cast my vote.

-- than is obvious

[Sandy]

New information has been risen up, which makes me unable to vote for Stanislav anymore. Whether it's the truth or a scum ploy remains to be seen, but I can't take the risk.

That is why I unvote: Stanislav (Shadows).

I strongly feel we should be voting for Ruxana instead of Donil today, but I don't want to split votes anymore. I will wait to see how things escalate before casting my vote again (as I cannot unvote anymore today).

But boy does it feel wonderful to be able to actually vote! I feel like my vote was held back by Max or someone else who has died, but it could also be that the vote hijacker has moved on to another victim.

[Peanuts]

You really talk a lot, guys. But better too much then too few, in my opinion.

Well, It's good that the Russian Mafia's godfather has died, but if there is a second mafia family, I'd rather have their godfather dead. Because I think, a second mafia gang more likely to be the converting one. But I'm still glad about Max being scum.

Now we seem to have to choose, who to vote: Donil, Stanislav or Ruxana

Donil: He is trying to avoid his death, as he would be the natural choice for a conviction. Yet he doesn't contradict himself or use desperate last pseudo-arguments, but his arguments are merely logically, but he acts also a bit unexperienced. If we vote for him and he turns out to be town, we would have cleared Ruxana, but Stanislav would be very suspect. If he turns out to be scum, we don't gain much, as he can be sacrificed.

Stanislav: His logic is flawed and he contradicts himself, his behavior and voting pattern is also a bit unusual. He seems happy to jump on every bandwagon and argue against most people who were accused. His main argument against Donil seems to be "I have played a lot of those games, you not. So shut up." For some reason, Captain Experienced has done nothing to save our town so far. If he is scum, we yet again don't have cleared Donil, but it is less likely he's scum, so is it less likely Ruxana's scum.

There was something else that bugs me about him, but I forgot. Too much vodka. I'll tell you once I remember. Also, the people I trust most are voting for him, which doesn't say he's scum, but is different from Benji and Petr.

Ruxana: She doesn't help us much so far. If she's scum, it's almost certain Donil is scum as well, and we still have Stanislav as a suspect. She isn't very likely to have lied to us. Not much to say here.

I'm also concerned about Samuel's vote, but we shouldn't jump on conclusions. We don't know, how this vote stealing works, but we know, that Samuel isn't voteless. If the target is chosen during the night, this is pure coincidence (not even a very unlikely coincidence). Also, this would be a good scum move: Once a mobster is voted for and possible to be bandwagoned, we just use Samuel's ability to vote as a counterargument.

New information has been risen up, which makes me unable to vote for Stanislav anymore. Whether it's the truth or a scum ploy remains to be seen, but I can't take the risk.

May I ask, what?

[def]

Alright, I'm about to disconnect my computer and Internet take a bath in ice cold vodka for the night.

After some consideration, and a little consultation as well, this construction worker is going to make a hard decision.

Unvote: Stanislav (Shadows)

Proxy: Samuel (Sandy)

Let's get some good results today. I've said my share about Stanislav. For Donil and Ruxana, I'm undecided about them, but, for today, I can agree that we should focus on one of them.

[CorneliusMurdock]

While I still don't find Donil's role claim very convincing, I'd be willing to postpone a vote until he has a chance of being proven innocent, provided that:

- there is a solid, foolproof plan to prove his innocence, and

- there is no chance that he could use the time he's been given to kill someone else.

I don't think your two conditions can ever be met. For one we think our investigator may be dead. For the second we're pretty sure our blocker is dead. If he's the killer, we have no way to stop him besides voting him off. And even if we could, how in the world are we supposed to prove his innocence?

As for Stanislav, the whole situation seems odd. The accusers (besides maybe Denis) came out of left field with it and the accused hasn't reacted well to it. I'm not inclined to vote for Stanislav at this point.

Donil seems the logical choice to me but I'd be willing to hear an explanation as to why Ruxana should go instead, Samuel. I don't find her particularly trustworthy either.

[iamded]

New information has been risen up, which makes me unable to vote for Stanislav anymore. Whether it's the truth or a scum ploy remains to be seen, but I can't take the risk.

That is why I unvote: Stanislav (Shadows).

I strongly feel we should be voting for Ruxana instead of Donil today, but I don't want to split votes anymore. I will wait to see how things escalate before casting my vote again (as I cannot unvote anymore today).

Wha- eh? I've... I've missed something then. Have I? I was following Denis' conversation nicely enough, then you say that and you're all unvoting and I don't understand. So we're trusting Stanislav now? As much as we can 'trust' anyone right now, that is.

Does this mean we should be looking towards Ruxana and Donil again? That's where I was looking before. But I was confused by it all. I'm easily confused. It's why I paint, painting is not confusing.

Dangit, I really want to place a vote today but I just don't know. Maybe I should follow Denis' lead as he seems like a nice chap, and proxy to Samuel. How much longer left in the day? Like, just under 12 hours? I'm off to get some more painting done, but I should be back in time.

[Sandy]

Donil seems the logical choice to me but I'd be willing to hear an explanation as to why Ruxana should go instead, Samuel. I don't find her particularly trustworthy either.

I already made my case against Ruxana. I haven't learned anything new about her. It just bugs me that she had a spout with Yuri, who brought it to daylight, and when he dies she is the one who suddenly knows all about his killer. It just smells too much of a ploy to divert attention from herself. But then again, she wouldn't accuse Donil if she did not know for sure he'd be found scum. And then there's her "unblockable" night action, and so far the only blocker we know of have been Town.

Donil on the other hand was claimed to be seen targetting Yuri, which he does not deny. Why didn't he deny it, when it was only Ruxana's word against his own?

I really find it hard to believe both of them to be townies, though Yan seems to think differently for some reason.

Despite the confusion, these are the two names we have to choose from today, unless something drastic happens. Several people have said they could vote for Ruxana over Donil, but so far nobody has voted for Ruxana.

I don't wish to drag this game any further than necessary, because both sides have gotten the chance to defend themselves. That's why I will cast my and Denis's votes against the one I have stronger feeling to being scum. Blame my stupid guts if I'm wrong.

Vote: Ruxana (Roncanator)

[Brickdoctor]

Donil on the other hand was claimed to be seen targetting Yuri, which he does not deny. Why didn't he deny it, when it was only Ruxana's word against his own?

This is the main fact going against Ruxana, I think.

Unless Ruxana is Town, Donil is Scum, and Donil didn't deny targeting Yuri so we'd lynch Ruxana, and then when Ruxana turned out to be Town, Donil would appear to have never lied about her, thus making us think they were both Townies. I hope that made sense.

[CMP]

New information has been risen up, which makes me unable to vote for Stanislav anymore. Whether it's the truth or a scum ploy remains to be seen, but I can't take the risk.

I'm kind of going to agree with Samuel, here, Denis. Stanislav, yes, is fairly suspicious, but we should probably keep our mind on Ruxana and Donil. This kind of information doesn't come up every day.

So far, I'm gonna Vote: Donil (Waterbrick Down). As stated, Ruxana wouldn't stick her neck out like this unless she truly believed it. Or is suicidal, but I doubt that.

[Bob]

Attention citizens of Moonlight. I've been quite quiet over the last few days, however I now have something potentially important to share with all of you.

I'm going for something wild here, but please bear with me, and look at this picture:

There are no rules stating that I cannot use pictures to point out clues. Note how the following people raise their hands in the air in distress when Max dies.

Boris, a pawn shop owner, married to Barbara, played by Brickdoctor

Raya, a real estate agent, married to Dmitri, played by Rick

Vera, a highway patrol officer, played by KartoffelViking

While it's true the Wilem also was raising his hands, he was raising his hands at the elephant, probably trying to lure it away. It is my belief that these three people are also members of the Russian Mafia. This is the only evidence that I have to support my claim, so I don't expect anyone else to follow my lead. Take this as you will, however I shall:

Vote: Boris (Brickdoctor)

Mostly because he has been acting quite strange lately. I urge you to take my speech into consideration, especially any investigators. Please investigate these people.

New information has been risen up, which makes me unable to vote for Stanislav anymore. Whether it's the truth or a scum ploy remains to be seen, but I can't take the risk.

I'm also curious as to what information you've come up with.

[Tamamono]

There are no rules stating that I cannot use pictures to point out clues. Note how the following people raise their hands in the air in distress when Max dies.

That's true, and I remember a picture book called The Forest in which an evil cat and a sinister bear were the only ones not celebrating when the Town 'won'.

It is my belief that these three people are also members of the Russian Mafia. This is the only evidence that I have to support my claim, so I don't expect anyone else to follow my lead. Take this as you will, however I shall:

Vote: Boris (Brickdoctor)

That's a pretty bold claim, but it certainly makes sense, as God has given clues to the citizens of Moonlight before.

While I still think that our focus should be on Ruxana and Donil today, I would still like an explanation from these three people.

[Brickdoctor]

Firstly I don't think that's a very good clue to accuse someone solely on. Is there any reason not to be surprised if someone drops dead in the street? (although admittedly I have no idea what emotion was portrayed there in god's picture) If you had some other facts to go on, it'd seem sensible. And if I may ask, why of the three suspects do you think I'm the one who should be lynched first?

And finally, do you really think god would be so kind as to point out not one or two, but three more scum to us?

[Peanuts]

Attention citizens of Moonlight. I've been quite quiet over the last few days, however I now have something potentially important to share with all of you.

I'm going for something wild here, but please bear with me, and look at this picture:

There are no rules stating that I cannot use pictures to point out clues. Note how the following people raise their hands in the air in distress when Max dies.

While it's true the Wilem also was raising his hands, he was raising his hands at the elephant, probably trying to lure it away. It is my belief that these three people are also members of the Russian Mafia. This is the only evidence that I have to support my claim, so I don't expect anyone else to follow my lead. Take this as you will, however I shall:

Vote: Boris (Brickdoctor)

Mostly because he has been acting quite strange lately. I urge you to take my speech into consideration, especially any investigators. Please investigate these people.

I'm also curious as to what information you've come up with.

That's a bit far-fetched in my opinion. How does it come that every time you break your silence, it's either because you have some weird, far-fetched or very constructed theory or because you have to defend against an accusation/vote?

[Brickdoctor]

And if I may ask, why of the three suspects do you think I'm the one who should be lynched first?

Mostly because he has been acting quite strange lately.

Sorry, I missed that. So why do you think I'm acting strangely?

[Hinckley]

How much longer left in the day? Like, just under 12 hours?

There are well over 24 hours left in the day. A day has 72 hours, not 48. Check the rules.

vote tally

Donil (Waterbrick Down): 4 votes (Shadows, Roncanator, Pandora, CallMePieOrDie)

Stanislav (Shadows): 2 votes (Waterbrick Down, Zepher)

Ruxana (Roncanator): 2 votes (Sandy, [def])

Boris (Brickdoctor): 1 vote (Bob the Construction Man)

*votes appearing in Rouge are locked in.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Odd that Ivan seems to be able to afford to have more vote tallies today. Either whoever was blocking Samuel's vote has died (unlikely because the only scum has been Max and how many abilities can one person have) or they have chosen another target today that has not voted yet.

I think Samuel has a point that Donil could have denied targeting Yuri at all. And we have nothing but Ruxana's word that she and Yuri made up and were working together when he was killed. I will

Vote: Ruxana (Roncanator)

[CMP]

Odd that Ivan seems to be able to afford to have more vote tallies today. Either whoever was blocking Samuel's vote has died (unlikely because the only scum has been Max and how many abilities can one person have) or they have chosen another target today that has not voted yet.

Or they're blocking me.