mccoyed

Persistent MOCiverse for Sci-Fi?

Recommended Posts

I just recently started to look into those RPG building games here at EB, when this thread appear. Im feel not at home in GoH since I build for the moment only Classic Space. In Star Wars, it is tempting but have not build any Star Wars themed and do not have to much Star Wars Lego.

If this idea get rolling, I think I going to join it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because it makes it easier for people to contribute and participate if they aren't pre-assigned based on what Lego they happened to collect. The reason GoH did it their way was to prevent this. It means that, for example, people could use Lions or Crowns with whatever Guild they wanted. The other Castleverse is LCC/Roawia (?) and they operate the way you describe, where their factions have specific attendant Lego Themes.

My preference is to do it like GoH not only for the above reasons but to encourage people to use non-Space Lego in a Space setting. This also means more mixing and matching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the inputs all of you. If I need feedback on factions or mechanism, i'll be sure to ask the community. :wink:

For now, in what I've planned, I have 37 "planets" :sweet:

Edit: In fact it's 52 "planets"

Wow, 52 "planets"; that's quite the endeavor you've got going there! This is going to be great! Thanks for taking this on Bob, it's about time we here in Sci/Fi Space get our own factions. Looking forward to this :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, 52 "planets"; that's quite the endeavor you've got going there! This is going to be great! Thanks for taking this on Bob, it's about time we here in Sci/Fi Space get our own factions. Looking forward to this :D

Me too, I can't wait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm less excited than you guys. Have the feeling this isn't what I was asking for but oh well. Can't have everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who are wondering, Shadows of Nar Eurbrikka has two teams (Rebels and Imperials) who compete as a team in Episodes, which are a set of scoring guidelines and build requirements. For instance, one recent episode featured the two teams fighting for control of a prison base, with each of five sectors of the base being competed for and the team that won the most sectors winning the base, and hence the episode. Members of the winning teams get a tag that's pertinent to the episode.

Individual players are also working to earn points. Each episode is worth a number of points based on its quality and originality, with additional points essentially based on how well it compares to the best enemy builds. Players also gain points by completing freebuilds, which are essentially any builds for SoNE that aren't part of an episode; these are generally worth far fewer points, but also can be produced in far greater numbers because only one episode build is allowed per episode, but as many as four freebuilds can be built for points between the closing of one episode and the closing of the next.

I'm not sure how Guilds of Historica works. Maybe someone could give a synopsis here?

More directly to the point of the thread, though, I agree that new factions might well be a good idea. The issue I spot with SoNE is that it is high-maintenance for the organizers, because it requires a lot of judging and conferences, especially when an episode is being scored. It is, however, a very organized system. If we were to allow players a wider spread of character possibilities (besides being soldiers), I can easily see a Sci-Fi Lego RPG giving SoNE some real competition in attracting builders.

I'm a big Lego Sci-Fi builder, so whatever we come up with I will certainly be participating as often as I can. :sweet:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guilds of Historica, of which I'm a relatively new member so bear with me, works as follows:

Historica is a continent with a central city and seat of power with four subcontinents, one in each cardinal direction. Each one is run by a loosely organized "Guild" and there are Guild Leaders for each. Mitgardia is a Norse-style faction, Avalonia is a Breton/Britain style, Kaliphlin is a cosmopolitan and medieval Middle East/Mediterranean style, with Nocturnus as the final "dark fantasy" faction with wastelands, monsters and so on. There is a ton of variety in terms of membership with each member choosing a guild but often being allowed to build for others or do "freebuilds" to acquire points for their guild. The points are used primarily for friendly competition, secondarily to direct storyline and historical progress in Historica (managed by a number of experienced, veteran members who earn the right through building prowess). Occasionally there are contests or challenges that have prizes but this is not mandatory. Often titles or other privileges can be awarded instead of physical prizes.

I imagine it's a lot of work now that GoH is a monolith of Lego castle MOCs. It has also grown to include a nonplayable faction and a sort of outsider "evil" faction. They've progressed a storyline over the course of 3 years now but I imagine the project started out a lot more humble than it has become.

They long ago decided that people involved should have a lot of leeway with what they want to build and how, guided more than restricted by the lore and rules that govern the group. The most important rule is that everyone MUST join a Guild/Faction. Usually other limits are situational or challenge specific. There are often time restricted/size restricted challenges but there are also more passive, long-term challenges to flesh out various aspects of Historica. For example, Mitgardia has "Age of Mitgardia" where members build different scenes of progression in "civilizing" the wild north whether it be through agriculture or warfare. For another example, Nocturnus has "Warlords of Nocturnus" which is 3 part challenge letting anyone create and show off a Nocturnian hero via a series of builds that escalate in size and complexity... but only Nocturnus members can get a title/reward from completing it.

This seems very similar to SoNE without the emphasis on warfare between only two factions. In Historica, players spend almost as much time doing pastoral, agriculture, mercantile, and governance scenes as they do warfare and the politics are more complex due to the symbolic alliance between the Guilds and the presence of exterior/interior threats that produce true progression. Historica is not now the same place it was a year ago or two years ago. As players change, leave, or join the very landscape, politics, and challenges likewise evolve. It's very cool. I'd say it's the coolest Lego-expanding project out there. I wish every "theme" had its own version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

specific colors is not realistic,, think of battelstar galatica, the millatry ws all cohesive, the civlians ships were a rag tag fleet of mish mosh,, ,, you can go with just milatary version i guess, and be color cordinated

so it seems

1 earth human race

as many alien race you like maybe

invertabrate insects

big boned vetebrate bi pedals

reptilian race

amphibian race

maybe a cybor race

a carbon based life form

a silicon based life form

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like the addition of the non-warlike activities, that's something that is naturally lacking in SoNE. From a practical standpoint, I don't see how GoH differs too much from SoNE, except that it has fewer factions and a more central organization. That is to say, at this point SoNE has episodes for all players at the same time and with each player restricted in his episode build to the tasks given his faction, where it seems that each GoH guild hosts its own contests that sometimes allow participation from non-Guild members. That point about a central organization has got to be part of why Bob De Quatre is favoring a SoNE format: less work to manage it and keep it headed in a single direction.

The political-social change you describe does sound like a really cool effect, I wonder if there's a way to adapt the SoNE-style format to make that sort of thing work? Probably, since Sci-Fi didn't have to work within the Star Wars storyline. There's only so much deviation that that overarching story will allow.

Again, though, if there is a Sci-Fi RPG here I would really like to see it provide more opportunity, even in contests, for non-military activities. Warships and weapons are cool, but Sci-Fi has more to offer than just that.

Some word from the mods here? What do you mods think about how the factions should be divided, and/or what the conflicts/alliances between them should be? I'm trying to help with the brainstorming here, and I'll try to get to work on any ideas you have and see what I can make of them.

Edited by VK-318

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is to say, at this point SoNE has episodes for all players at the same time and with each player restricted in his episode build to the tasks given his faction, where it seems that each GoH guild hosts its own contests that sometimes allow participation from non-Guild members. That point about a central organization has got to be part of why Bob De Quatre is favoring a SoNE format: less work to manage it and keep it headed in a single direction.

Unless we have dedicated volunteers step up to run each faction under Bob De Quatre's overarching control, I can see why Bob has chosen to take things closer to the SoNE format. A quick read over the various GoH faction forums shows that they each seem to have a dedicated team running the faction's overall direction. The faction leaders must then have a place to discuss bigger storylines/challenges that will include everyone.

At the very least, it's worth trying. We can always discuss morphing and tweaking the best aspects of both SoNE and GoH and incorporate those as people see fit. At all times though, I would like to see some sort of 'tutorial challenge' or similar put in place to allow new players an easy starting ground to get into things with. I found with GoH that it can be very intimidating trying to find somewhere to fit in and start. I'm not exactly sure how that would work, whether it would be a mentor deal with other players, or a series of simple challenges to help get players into the feel of things, just something to keep it more inclusive.

Lastly, i'm glad to see this topic getting some good discussion going again. While I do like the Star Wars universe, I don't love it enough to commit to SoNE. But i've been a Lego space fanatic since about 1984, so i'd love to see something more generic catering to the rest of us :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel bad as I can't answer to all the questions without giving away what I'm working on...

So I'll post the "guidelines", what drives me and what I want to achieve:

- Give EB members the chance to participate in a Sci-Fi story, and it will be a space story,

- Have (monthly) challenges took place in that story,

- Enhance the role of freebuilds

- Give players some freedom, even if there will always be limits,

- Don't go too big, too fast...

- Create a game, something fun, where anyone could participate with the time, bricks and skills he/she has

And more things that don't come to mind...

Unless we have dedicated volunteers step up to run each faction under Bob De Quatre's overarching control, I can see why Bob has chosen to take things closer to the SoNE format. A quick read over the various GoH faction forums shows that they each seem to have a dedicated team running the faction's overall direction. The faction leaders must then have a place to discuss bigger storylines/challenges that will include everyone.

You're right about why I'm going closer to SoNE than GoH... But it will be something on it's own, and I don't mind to do some changes if needed over the time, or even create something new.

For now I'm just putting together a story, mechanisms and rules, and I'll discuss them with the staff that has experience with other games like SoNE and GoH.

Then we'll set up a team with senior EB members to refine all that, write down everything, create graphics, build what is needed to introduce the story and so on...

That will takes several weeks...

Remember that it would be very hard, not to say impossible, to satisfy everyone desires and hopes...

Currently there is no such thing as SoNE or GoH here... What we'll put in place will have flaws, no matter how much efforts we'll put in it... But we are in the Sci-Fi forum! We can always go back in time and change everything for the best :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm behind you 100% on this endeavour. If there's anything at all I can do to help get things off the ground, just say the word. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm behind you 100% on this endeavour. If there's anything at all I can do to help get things off the ground, just say the word. :)

Second that. I'd be glad to help any way I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just vaguely say that all Sci-fi exists in the unimaginable hugeness of the universe, its related parallel universes, and alternate timelines, both future and past. Personally, I think any further specifications will spoil the fun. :grin:

But honestly, I am opposed to creating factions, even based on existing themes, as they generalize Sci-fi and make it difficult to create new and original ideas.

And I certainly agree with what this chap said.

Sci-fi works much differently than castle themes.

That may be just my opinion, but I don't see any reason why a sci-fi one needs to mirror exactly how the GoH is done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you need to be concerned. Right now, Scifi is one of the slowest forums on EB and any special roleplaying project ala SoNE or GoH would occupy its own forum space. This means that you don't need to take part if you don't like the idea. It doesn't affect you.

I'd also like more explanation for why you say this:

Sci-fi works much differently than castle themes.

What does this mean?

Edited by mccoyed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm behind you 100% on this endeavour. If there's anything at all I can do to help get things off the ground, just say the word. :)

Add me into the list of those willing to help. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What does this mean?

All right, I won't worry. :classic:

By saying that Sci-fi and castle work differently I mean that there are a few factors that greatly estrange the two themes. I'm no Castle builder,but I can distinguish most of the larger factors and what impact they have.

First of all, there's time. The Medieval period or Dark ages, upon which Castle is generally founded, only lasted a couple hundred years. Sci-fi, on the other hand, is any region of the future that we can imagine to be more technologically advanced than us, alternate universes where the world is changed due to a differentiated history or fundamentally changed universal characteristics, regions of the present where Sci-fi elements such as aliens intrude upon normality, and even regions of the past where events similar to those aforementioned occur. This factor alone makes Sci-fi almost infinitely broader than Castle since any aspect of Castle could be "converted" into Sci-fi with the inclusion of time travelers, time traveling aliens, non-magical phenomenon (and here the boundary between the themes is blurred), etc. But since Sci-fi can feasibly occur any time, it is already much broader than any other theme. Trying to pin down a specific time period is greatly restrictive.

In Castle themes it isn't restrictive because, well, time travel wasn't invented yet. :grin:

Also, there's space. Castle tends to happen mostly within the confines of Europe, and equally often in fantasy lands that bear a striking resemblance to countries in Europe. Of course, it will expand into Asia or Africa at times, but it's pretty much stuck on the one multicontinent. Sci-fi, on the other hand, literally occupies all space. It has an infinite amount of locations manifested within alternate universes and dimensions. Lush alien planets, stark space stations, weird dimensional rifts, all are contained within the theme. Cyberpunk cities, steampunk cities, apocalyptic wastelands, massive galactic empires...I could go on and on and ON. The point is that Sci-fi encompasses an infinite number of different settings while Castle is kind of stuck in one relatively short timeline and relatively small space.

And of course, Castle is based on an iconic civilization and lifestyle focused mainly on humans, while Sci-fi could focus, for example, on the behavior and social structure of an utterly inhuman alien species with stark differences in morality, ethics... and no humanity as we know it.

Because of these things, Castle is, unfortunately, a rather inflexible theme. Visiting the Medieval period on another planet would be considered Sci-fi (or, as I like to call it, Science Fantasy, Sci-fa), even though it's the same basic premise as Castle.

Sci-fi and Castle, therefore, work differently because Castle is a rather small niche in MOCing (although it is certainly expandable within its own parameters, as I have seen. :wink:) and Sci-fi is a ridiculously large and generalized category that nearly encompasses half of all that is built. We're sort of comparing a file folder and a library here, so in order to create a good sort of "Historica" replica for Sci-fi you would have to take one of the innumerable file folders out of the library that is Sci-fi and set up the contestable story with that. A feat worthy of laud. :wink:

Hope that helps! :laugh:

I recommend creating an original theme and story rather than replicating something like Space Police or M-Tron and creating a storyline for it.

This is, of course, risky if the general plot and parameters for technology, characters, and whatnot are not set properly; otherwise it will be most refreshing. :classic:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To what @A Plastic Infinity said, I think what is being planned here is (probably) based on a classic space-opera style sci-fi universe, with spaceships that have hyperdrives, warp drives, or something similar; a background that involves humans and some robots and aliens; with at least one, possibly several interstellar states; and with the precise level of available technology left indeterminate so that individual builders can let their imaginations go to work. Not to say that any other form of sci-fi is inferior to the aforementioned system, it's just that this format leaves probably the most freedom of invention possible.

To the point of participation, you wouldn't have to participate in this game to use the Sci-Fi forum any more than you have to play SoNE to use the Star Wars forum, I would think. But, since participation in any of these types of games currently extant places no obligations on you, I don't see why you wouldn't join. :classic: Because one of the things that these contests do, regardless of what kind of contest it is, is provide a forum for you to post your builds and make sure that people care about looking at them. SoNE gets a fair amount of attention when it has an episode running, not least because it spurs people to build the very best that they can, another reason to join a game of that sort.

(Is the pep talk working? :blush: )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm behind you 100% on this endeavour. If there's anything at all I can do to help get things off the ground, just say the word. :)

Second that. I'd be glad to help any way I can.

And me, obviously. :D

Don't forget me! :grin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ A Plastic Infinity

I'm familiar with the trope differences between Science Fiction and Fantasy. I think your comparison is skewed, though. Fantasy is every bit as broad and open as science fiction. In fact, "science fiction" is often used to describe fantasy with technological elements (Star Wars). If the broad differences between the tropes of the two genres mattered, we could have that discussion, but I don't think they do.

The thing is, Guilds of Historica is a specific vision of a broad assortment of Fantasy tropes and ideas. Likewise, a Scifi (as it applies to Lego) MOCiverse fashioned after the same structures and principles, would also be a specific vision of a broad assortment of Science Fiction tropes and ideas (probably with a lot of fantasy as well). It seems, for example, that Bob de Quatre is going for Space Opera, a subgenre that tends to fold fantasy into science fiction anyway.

My point is just that the differences you describe don't really stop us from narrowing down our use of "science fiction" to whatever kind of fictional universe we like best. This is one of the reasons I wish the process of creating that universe (and its subgenre(s)) was not being unilaterally performed by one moderator, but as a community effort. Oh well, though.

Edited by mccoyed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But honestly, I am opposed to creating factions, even based on existing themes, as they generalize Sci-fi and make it difficult to create new and original ideas.

Agreed-ish. IMO, there need to be a few principal factions (from 2-4), but there should also be the ability for lone-wolf space adventurers to come and go without ties to any faction. Perhaps that is part of what Bob de Quatre meant when mentioning freebuilds?

Naturally, it would be hard for these free agents to affect the greater story, but that might just be something that builders have to accept if they choose to create that kind of character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how it works in SoNE but in Guilds of Historica, you can create one "primary" character that has to be a member of the guild you joined, but you're also free to create and build for other characters in other guilds every so often when there's an open challenge or if you're creating a story that requires a different main character or a cast of secondary characters. They aren't very strict about the "one member, one character" style that we might expect. Which I like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.