China Themes?

[ogami_ito]

Hi all,

First post (I think) to this forum.

The point of this thread is: I want a China theme.

I just searched through brickpedia and found the "Oriental" Adventure theme. Yeah... very un PC of TLG, not that I care.

I know that Ninjago is "Asian-ish" and has one or two really beautiful Japanese-style buildings. This is great, but there is a lot more really cool stuff to be found in China.

For starters, the low-hanging fruit of a China theme would be the "Three Kingdoms" sub-theme. Personally I can't stand 3K as it has been done to death in video games and a stupid ripped-off card-game. But looking at it from a Lego point of view, this theme can have all sorts of named mini-figs from the 3K story. A more generalized, non-specific China theme could include:

The Spirit Monks (or whatever stand-in for Xiaolin / Wudang, Kunlun):

temple structure

kungfu fighter mini-figs. Minifigs can have moon knives, jian, dao, etc.

legends of the Wulin sets for a tournament

Tea-house brawl (should have one seductive female mini-fig to imply that the teahouse is a brothel to adult lego players... as the teahouses were often brothels , in wuxia literature that is)

The Imperial Faction:

Castle

Outpost

Sea Junk (different type of large sea-craft set)

River Junk (smaller version of the above)

River Paddle-Boat (thinking horse-powered paddleboat with threads pushing a paddle-wheel... such a thing was actually used in war hundreds of years ago)

Various army leader minifigs. A guandao weapon would be great.

Imperial Temple

Water town set (like Suzhou... buildings next to canals)

North-town sets (grey brick mixed with red)

Rescue the prince set (basically a chinese- style carriage with attackers... references the start of 3K when the prince was kidnaped)

Horse Clan Faction:

Horse + minifig sets with assorted yurt "bases"

Usurpers faction:

siege pack, with medievel Chinese rocket launchers

small usurpers castle

Demon cultists lair

What do you guys think?

[gedren_y]

Something based on the classic 16th century Chinese novel Journey to the West would be awesome.

[obsidianheart]

While I must admit I don't know enough about China and it's history or mythology to speak on the likelihood or excitement factor of a China-representative theme, I figured I'd use this opportunity to let people know that there is a third-party customizer who makes some pretty rad stuff based around Chinese folklore/history.

So, you might go give BrickTW a look if you haven't already.

[Mr. President]

I have to be honest: every time someone posts one of these "AFOL-oriented series ideas designed by an AFOL forum member" threads, I find the contents horribly boring. I know that AFOLs like to think of themselves as being more "serious" and whatever, but you know we are still talking about a toy, and I would like to see one of these threads be sort of aware that toys are intended to be fun.

[robuko]

I agree it would be cool, but I don't think it would sell outside China (btw CMF pandas are flying off the shelves here, there is clearly appetite for Chinese themes). Oxford bricks have some nice accessories and themes for Korean history which you could possibly adapt.

[Deathleech]

I would just love for Lego to do something new and unique. The Castle them for 2013 was really boring imo. It was about as standard as they come. There was nothing really new or exciting. While I doubt I would love a Chinese theme as that doesn't interest me a whole lot, I would take it any day over something like the 2013 Castle theme.

[h22chen]

If they don't want to release a china theme, I hope they will at least release an ancient chinese warrior in one of the collectible minifigs.

[Thomas_w]

Tea-house brawl (should have one seductive female mini-fig to imply that the teahouse is a brothel to adult lego players... as the teahouses were often brothels , in wuxia literature that is)

Well I don't think that this is a good idea, I mean LEGO wouldn't even hint that one of its characters would be any kind of prostitute. But the theme in general sounds cool ! What did you think of the big Chinese inspired temple set ? I got it really cheap many years ago now, and I thought it was brilliant.

I copied this image from ZO5's brickshelf, itself linked in his great review here :

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59011

[ogami_ito]

Something based on the classic 16th century Chinese novel Journey to the West would be awesome.

I think that would be cool. But I'm thinking more of a Castle-theme with Chinese castles. Journey West would have things like caves, demon mini-figs, and "heaven castles". To me, besides the mini-figs, sounds a little boring. And the mini-figs can be accomplished using Chima + some customization / addition of Asian dress from the Orient adventures themes (don't know if there is a pig-head though).

I know that AFOLs like to think of themselves as being more "serious" and whatever, but you know we are still talking about a toy, and I would like to see one of these threads be sort of aware that toys are intended to be fun.

Why would Chinese castles, boats, warriors, siege machines, towns, etc be less fun than what's available now?

I agree it would be cool, but I don't think it would sell outside China (btw CMF pandas are flying off the shelves here, there is clearly appetite for Chinese themes).

I don't know what CMF Panda is. Again, why would it not sell? I'm from United States BTW, although I live in China. What my children know of Castles they mostly see from LOTR and castles they visited in Asia. Are you saying that Westerners would only appreciate Western-style castles and mini-figs?

Well I don't think that this is a good idea, I mean LEGO wouldn't even hint that one of its characters would be any kind of prostitute. But the theme in general sounds cool ! What did you think of the big Chinese inspired temple set ? I got it really cheap many years ago now, and I thought it was brilliant.

I didn't mean make it explicit. She could be a wuxia fighter with a secret identity as a tea-house manager. It's just that in some wuxia literature, tea-houses were also sort of prostitute houses, but not exactly. I was not suggesting that Lego explicitly create that type of identity for a mini-fig.

Thanks for showing me that pic. I like that temple BTW. But I think it can be updated to look more like a castle instead of a palace/temple. And it can do without the "Orient Adventure" BTW (which a lot of Asian Americans may find insulting).

[gedren_y]

Orient Expedition was a branch of the Adventurers line. It was a sort of knock-off Indiana Jones at the time. 1920s archaeology adventures. I never saw any of these in any of my local Lego retailers. I don't know if they were even available in the US market.

I'd love a Chinese theme. Greater diversity in Lego Castle is always a big hope.

[Thomas_w]

Thanks for showing me that pic. I like that temple BTW. But I think it can be updated to look more like a castle instead of a palace/temple. And it can do without the "Orient Adventure" BTW (which a lot of Asian Americans may find insulting).

I am sorry, I am from the UK and might be a bit dense, but certainly the chinese people I work with don't appear to find the term "Oriental" insulting. I also showed them the faces of the minifigs, and equally thought the Chinese style of the "oriental" characters was quite cool. This was only a sample size of 2 however.

There is definitely a scope for cool chinese themed sets though. A larger "Around the World in 80 days" with sets devoted to many different world cultures could potentially be a big hit. My personal preference would be some sort of rural chinese tea farm and temple combo. Another possibility could be a "Great Wall of China" set which contains a small section of wall, and maybe some civilian structure.

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

I'm pretty sure Oriental Expedition sets were available in the US. I got a couple sets in a large lot I bought in Connecticut 4 years ago.

[obsidianheart]

I'm pretty sure Oriental Expedition sets were available in the US.

They were! I know a girl who bought them all when they came out because "It was the closest thing [she] thought we'd ever get to Indiana Jones." Later, they came out with Indiana Jones, and she put all the sets in storage.

[h22chen]

If she is willing to trade, I'm pretty sure some are willing to trade for it.

[obsidianheart]

She's not! She was furious with me when I sold one of the unopened sets after she told me to "get rid of the stuff in the understairs closet". She meant everything but those, apparently.

[ogami_ito]

the chinese people I work with don't appear to find the term "Oriental" insulting.

Asian Americans tend to find it insulting because "orient" means that they are defined from the position of the West. Or something like that. And furthermore, the set has white man as a hero... maybe an Asian girl as a sidekick, and main bad-guy being the Chinese guy. Which recalls Fu Manchu. I sort of see where they are coming from, although I actually think Fu Manchu is retro-cool.

My personal preference would be some sort of rural chinese tea farm and temple combo. Another possibility could be a "Great Wall of China" set which contains a small section of wall, and maybe some civilian structure.

Tea farm would be a small-ish set with a hidden small shrine and brick-made vegetation. Which... actually is cool. Could be a cool "Friend's" set too. I don't see GW being good except as a architecture set. The beauty of the Wall is that it is made ontop of mountains... running with the mountains ridges. That is hard to do unless you use a lot of bricks, or you make it in micro-scale (still hard to do). Along the wall are forts... not really any civilian structure on the tops of mountains.

[Sigolf Brimabane]

Do Asian Americans actually find it insulting or do you only think that they do? I mean, it's a pretty harmless Indiana Jones ripoff. In the earlier Adventurers sets the evil bad guy was "Baron von Barron", clearly an evil German. And in the Vikings lego they gave us extremely stereotypical Vikings with horned helmets and whatnot (I'm used to my history/culture being used for stuff like the Thor comic and films, but it's just toys).

Anyways, to stay on topic... A China theme would be pretty awesome, but I guess I would have appreciated it more in my Japanese phase a few years back. As a kid I remember I wanted the Chinese sets from Orient Expedition because of the cool Chinese figures with the hats and all that. I do think it will be difficult for Lego to make a China theme because Chinese history is very unknown to the west (and the west is unknown to China), so it won't be instantly recognisable. In any case, they could make it a standard castle theme with a castle, catapults, gate-houses and a princess being kidnapped and of course have a dragon in it. It would be cool (although I probably wouldn't buy it) if they at least did a Terracotta Warrior figure in the CMF range.

[h22chen]

She's not! She was furious with me when I sold one of the unopened sets after she told me to "get rid of the stuff in the understairs closet". She meant everything but those, apparently.

Ouch! Must be painful for you and for her.

And she still have unopened sets? wow!

Asian Americans tend to find it insulting because "orient" means that they are defined from the position of the West. Or something like that. And furthermore, the set has white man as a hero... maybe an Asian girl as a sidekick, and main bad-guy being the Chinese guy. Which recalls Fu Manchu. I sort of see where they are coming from, although I actually think Fu Manchu is retro-cool.

Tea farm would be a small-ish set with a hidden small shrine and brick-made vegetation. Which... actually is cool. Could be a cool "Friend's" set too. I don't see GW being good except as a architecture set. The beauty of the Wall is that it is made ontop of mountains... running with the mountains ridges. That is hard to do unless you use a lot of bricks, or you make it in micro-scale (still hard to do). Along the wall are forts... not really any civilian structure on the tops of mountains.

I don't mind the use of the word Orient, or Oriental, only how it was used, typically people don't use it in a stereotypical or insulting way, I'm fine with that. Sometimes I call myself Oriental.

I think this video explains more on why people don't like that term. There are many people of Asian descent who grew up in the western hemisphere only knowing the language of their country, as in, they don't identify themselves as the people from which their ancestors originally came from and only could speak the local language. eg. English in the US, German in Germany, etc...

It is seen in the US to have this kind of ignorance. No one asks which European country the immigrants that one's ancestors came from (or even ask which 2nd language one speaks, whether German, Dutch, French, Russian, Greek, etc...). Neither was the question of which African country one's ancestor came from, or which African language one speaks (whether Zulu, Swasi, Kinyarwanda, etc...).

Edited February 13, 2014 by h22chen

[ogami_ito]

I do think it will be difficult for Lego to make a China theme because Chinese history is very unknown to the west (and the west is unknown to China), so it won't be instantly recognisable.

I think that history is generally unknown to most people. Even with Lego Castle themes, we see a mix of weaponry and styles that have little to do with real history. That being said, certain story elements do seem fairly known, such as Kungfu fighters, Journey to the West, and Three Kingdoms (among video-game enthusiasts anyway).

There are two sides to this: the sets themselves and the theme-story about the sets.

The sets can be just cool China-themed castles. Using some different building styles and such. This can include a small and large "junk" style ship (using the common English name for it). I actually want this more than the castles.

The theme-story, on the otherhand, can and should be completely made up. For example:

• The standard option is to have a few factions (ie. Phoenix Kingdom, KungFu Heros, Fox-Spirit cultists), mirroring what Castle is usually about.
  
• Non-Licensed Ancient Chima ... which is just Chima with ancient Chinese characteristics in Castle sets
  
• Licensed Kungfu Panda series - which is just Chima with ancient Chinese characteristics in Caste sets, and names from the show slapped on the same mini-figs. This would be very cool, and Kungfu Panda seems to be very popular.
  

Just my thoughts on how that could work

I don't mind the use of the word Orient, or Oriental, only how it was used, typically people don't use it in a stereotypical or insulting way, I'm fine with that.

OK. I'm sort of sorry for bringing that up. It seems there is a movement among many Asian - Americans to change they way they are portrait in media (google "Not your Asian side-kick"). To me, the Oriental Adventure theme seemed to go into sensitive territory in some way, but I don't think it matters as far as these discussion forum.

[h22chen]

I am not disagreeing with you here either, there are times it went beyond into racism and your point is very valid.

Sometimes I get irritated because of their blatant ignorance and prejudice against asians as if it is ok to do that because it is all just in the name of "fun". If they had done it to other "types" of humans, then they'll be a a whole works and range of discussions about racism and such (it is as if it is ok to do it to Asians). Sometimes I find the slant-eyed designs funny, cool and interesting, depends on the usage; but, most of the time when I experienced it, people did that to insult others and to put down others, that, I do not agree with or like.

*end rant.*

But I would love to have an Asian themed series or even more "Asian" minifigs; however, Lego's main audience is in the Western Hemisphere, so who knows

[gedren_y]

About cultural insensitivity, Lego did something similar with the native peoples of both North and South America. Western, Pirates and Adventurers were at minimum cliches.

A Chinese Castle theme would be easy to produce, given that there are several recent molds that have come out of Ninjago and some licensed themes that would fit this theme.

I do believe we will probably have to wait until Ninjago runs its course before we see another Asian castle theme (remember Ninja).

[Dorayaki]

As an Asian I actually can't feel anything from the terms. Still, both Oriental and IJ are intepretted by the view of foreigners, which could make Asian consumers uncomfortable sometimes. Maybe the theme doesn't have to highlight a group of foreign heroes (as an action theme), but simply the culture itself.

For licenses, unless there is going to be another treasue hunting film series where foreigners have a China adventure, most ancient Chinese history films are filmed by Chinese companies themselves. TLC wouldn't ask them for licenses because it lacks a global market potential.

If "Oriential" means "Asian", I believe the mostly used Asian cultural theme in Lego is Japan, more precisely, ninja. But as others mentioned, both ninja and mediaval culture themes don't focus on a specific history, so 3K wouldn't be one of the generic themes that TLG is going to design.

The Dragon Foretress building is okay to me, it's not too far from common Chinese building types. The characters are alittle weird: Jing Lee's prints was very rough. Chang Wu and his soldiers don't look like Chinese villains. Contrarily, the Everest and Indian characters look more natural.

I'd say that I expect to see future Castle themes focus on army from other different cultures rather than just using the same mid-age things. More different countries like the Vikings and Ninja would be very nice.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Dorayaki

[Strelki]

Well there is not a regular Chinese theme.

I think you can use some already available sets to make Asian (Chinese or Japanese MOC.

There's this LEGO orient expedition theme, which is a Chinese temple. I really want to get this one.

Inside the temple is a golden dragon.

There's also this set with a Chinese statue...

And also is a LEGO Chinese ship that I also want.

Enlighten Bricks company also made a Chinese pirate ship of a similar design. I will be getting this one as well.

Then there is the short lived LEGO samurai theme.

Oxford company specializes in themes of Korean history and the bricks are lego campatible. Their minifigures are a bit different than LEGO or Enlighten ones though. They have a great selection of rare parts such as Asian style roof corners.

Ninjago also has some nice Asian style sets.

[Sir Walter Maugham]

I've been desirous of a medieval theme set somewhere other than Europe for a long time. Ninjago has obliterated any hope of getting one set in Japan for quite a long time. So I've been hoping for a Chinese medieval theme as well. Plus, Chinese architecture hasn't been seen since 2003 with Orient Expedition. (And never existed prior) It would be very refreshing.

But, Lego has only ventured outside of Europe for a medieval theme once back in 1998-2000 with the Ninja sets. I don't know how well those sets sold, but I get the feeling that medieval themes that don't take place in Europe are going to be few and far between.

(Upon Googling the definition of "medieval" I am unsure if that word can be used to refer to anywhere other than Europe. Oh well, you know what I mean )

Edited July 17, 2014 by Sir Walter Maugham

[obsidianheart]

(Upon Googling the definition of "medieval" I am unsure if that word can be used to refer to anywhere other than Europe. Oh well, you know what I mean )

Feudal?