Heartlake Heartbreak - Day Two: Flagpole Sitta

[Piratedave84]

You didn't understand the clarification. Walter didn't target anyone. He was blocked! Stop reading those summaries you lazy human! They're not even accurate let alone substantial to understand what's happening. If you're just reading summaries...that suck...how can you catch people in lies. Don't be lazy! We'll kill you!

Respond to my last post!

And Zara is dead! She probably won't be responding. :wall:

Well that reflects very poorly ony attention span!!!

I sincerely applogize my shift in the stables was almost over an i wrote that last post very fast and quite half-assly!

[JimBee]

Come around? We only had two posts and I explained everything you asked. When I'm Scum, a two sentence "argument" seems to take forever when a Townie sees it as simple discourse. Perhaps it seems like I'm "coming around" because being questioned makes you nervous.

Nervous? Have I not been as open about all this as possible? I honestly don't see how I'm "under scrutiny" here. If anything, people are following you around like sheep and should be putting you under scrutiny.

Yes the reasons are similar but your sentiment was that if Trisha was Town you were "pretty sure" Zara and Jane were. Pretty sure seems like you have a case and you have nothing more than suspicions. Identical reasoning between us worries me that you seemed so sure Jane was Scum when Trisha came up as Town. I feel my Actions are not weird, but yours are.

You're entitled to your own opinion of course, even though it's wrong. In all seriousness, though, there's a huge gap in your logic. I'll lay it out for everyone to see easily, since many people are saying "oh yeah I agree with the points on Jimmy", sheeple.

- You first are so curious as to why I find Jane suspicious. You bug me in PM, I answer you, then you bug me again in public. If you're trying to poke me to see if my reaction will be scummy, there you have it. I'm not trying to hide anything, and I think I've answered your questions pretty clearly. Heck, you can even use your sprinkle cookie cake lunch thing to test me, if you want: I'm aligned with the town. Oh, I see that it doesn't work that way...

- I fully and clearly explain to you why I think (or "am pretty sure", if you prefer) that Jane is scum. I will reillustrate those points now:

1. Her lazy response to another lazy response. Seems scummy to me.

2. I am absolutely certain that there were scum on the bandwagon yesterday. The number show it, logic shows it. Out of the possible scum, Jane is definitely my top suspect.

3. She still has not spoken up today, perhaps she is consulting with her scum buddies.

- Yes, I am pretty sure that Jane is scum. You put me "under scrutiny" for simply saying this, yet (and here's the most important point folks, make sure you read this) you told the vig to kill her today. Sounds like you have "more than just suspicions", to me, if you're suggesting a vig kill.

Seriously, is no one else seeing the fallacies and gap in this logic? My case against Jane somehow makes no sense and makes me suspicious, yet Oscar's identical reasoning that he provided after mine is good grounds for a vig kill?

Read the points above, people. If you're just siding with Oscar because he seems to be a good town "leader", or for whatever reasons you have that do not involve being informed, then we might as well just give up right now.

What? I disagree with this. I would go for Jimmy or Jane or Sara (Katie, Amy, Wild Dragon) long before I suspected Daisy. Despite being a dick, she's working awful hard to help us figure things out.

And now you're just throwing out names for the vig. And I'll bet that they listen.

Hey vig, you should probably aim for Oscar or maybe Carl because I happen to disagree with them. Yeah, they don't make too much sense so yeah probably kill them. I don't want to consider anything other than my own thoughts. Kthx.

You're the second very analytical person to mention Walter. Interesting. Jimmy and Walter deserve some scrutiny right now...

I deserve scrutiny right now? Again, have I not been as clear and forthcoming as possible about answering all of your questions? Conversely, you have not really closed that logical gap of yours, yet you continue on in that manipulative tone.

If someone really did investigate you, fine, but that's an easy claim for anyone. I'm still very suspicious of you and think you also "deserve scrutiny".

That all fits, my lunch (ham sandwich) enabled me to steal someone else's lunch, but the person I targeted seems to have eaten theirs.

To clarify, I also had a ham sandwich with the thief ability.

Carl, you have definitely pinged my radar as well, with the reasons you suspect me. All of it is very deceptive, and you've taken a lot of what I've said out of context.

He's open to the possibility the day killer is scum here, but thinks it's scum rather than the vig...

Yes, so? I'm open to all explanations (unlike Oscar before...), and I shared one theory. That does not seem scummy to me.

...but only because it's 'the simplest solution'. Now, I usually go along with the most rational explanation for things, but this would be startlingly unbalanced (even if we have a day protector, the odds of a protector protecting a day kill target are laughable). I'm not saying it's not a possibility, but it's a far cry from 'the simplest solution', there a ton of complexities to consider if the scum's way of winning is this intangible.

I always use Occam's razor. I don't disagree with you that there are many complexities to consider, but that the day killer is the scum killer was my own theory. Again, I am open to believing it was the vig or SK or what have you, and I was simply urging Oscar to be more open to the possibility. Again, he sounded very certain that the day killer was the vig, and originally refused to even consider anything else. Seems very suspicious to me.

This scared me a bit. Rarely are blockers actually told if their target did anything last night. If the blocker's not convinced their target was the killer, then keep your mouth shut, it's not worth dying to reveal.

This I agree with, and perhaps that was reckless of me. Still, if there was a way to reveal the blocked person (such as Oscar's note today, what a weird coincidence...) without revealing the blocker's identity, that would be ideal.

The reasoning is...okay. It's far more likely Jane's just a lazy townie, but it's still fairly scummy.

Far more likely? Um, where are you basing that off of? If you just assume Jane is a lazy townie, then we're doomed. Or, you're scum. Ping.

What I don't like here is that he's using Oscar's own offense as a defense. His defense (I guess it's a bit of a stretch to call it a real 'defense', but she's still defending herself) is that he (Oscar) was suspicious of the same person he's suspecting, so he (Jimmy) shouldn't be seen as suspicious himself.

I'm not really making too much sense of this, but from what I understand, you're saying that I would be safer agreeing with Oscar's suspicions? If so, then again... I was the first one to fully explain why I suspected Jane, as per Oscar's request. When I asked Oscar the same question, his suspicions were the same as mine. So, I'm a little confused as to why you would accuse me of "going along with the crowd" here, when it is in fact Oscar who is subtly avoiding presenting anything new as far as anything concerning Jane.

I do doubt Jimmy was as sure of Jane's scuminess as Oscar makes out, but her response to this is even more scummy itself. Agreeing on a suspect with someone doesn't make your automatically innocent in that person's eyes.

Exactly, now apply that logic to Oscar as well.

I think Oscar responded later saying that even though their reasons for being suspicious were the same, the conclusions they reached were quite different. That sort of ties into this.

Again, our conclusion really aren't that different. Actually his would be the more extreme, suggesting the vig kill Jane today.

He wants people to be open to the idea that the day killer could be scum....

Yes.

...And suddenly the day killer is now the vig.

No. You completely took that out of context. I have the benefit of the doubt that I wasn't clear enough, but since you seem to be taking a lot of what I'm saying out of context, I'll assume the same here. I was referring to the "day killer vig" as in Oscar's point of view. When I say "Oscar told the vig to kill Jane", I still am not sure that the day killer is in fact the vig (although again, I'm open to the possibility), and I am referring to the vig as this person that Oscar assumes is the vig.

Now, as for this information brought up on Walter, good to know. I will check into later, though, I need a break after all that talking.

[Tamamono]

Ok, here I am, I've had my fill of sugar cubes and I'm ready to talk.

This is a good point. After calling out Mike for his lame vote yesterday he contacted me letting me know that he was engaged and didn't want me to think he was lazy. Since he assumed he would be lynched before long, he said he'd give me his lunch to try and prove that he was working for the Town. Moments later, the cookies came. Yes, this could be a ploy to get me to trust him. No, I have not given him any information I haven't given out in the thread.

I think it's likely a ploy - no offense, Oscar, but Mike had no reason to send you his lunch, and a man of his experience (he doesn't even care when women cry! ) should know not to trust penny-munching hedgehogs without good reason first.

Did you guys read that? Walter (WaterbrickDown) professional summarizer and lame lie detector plan setter was blocked last night. No Scum kill, Scummy hedgehog-hating Walter blocked. Hmmmm....

Awesome, we've got scum pinned just like a strong, muscular horse like Danny pins down his prey before...

Ahem.

But yeah, this is a great turn of events, especially after mislynching crazy Trish yesterday. I'm not compromising on my vote today, nor should anyone else - even if it was a successful protection instead of a successful block, we need to get rid of Walter today, especially as long as we still have some mislynches left. As long as we know he was blocked on the night there was no scum kill, we'll never be able to trust him, and he'll just get in the way.

We've got those scum piggies on the run. Oink oink!

Yes, I am pretty sure that Jane is scum. You put me "under scrutiny" for simply saying this, yet (and here's the most important point folks, make sure you read this) you told the vig to kill her today. Sounds like you have "more than just suspicions", to me, if you're suggesting a vig kill.

Honestly, the evidence points toward it being a serial killer (there are few people here who would daykill blindly as town) and Oscar has a history of assuming things. Why do you automatically write it off as a vig? Are you the real serial killer and you know there can't be more than one?

[Hinckley]

I stand by my assertion that Jane would make a good big kill. We can't get her to respond or pay attention. Killing her would get her off our suspect list. The difference is I'm not at all sure she's Scum as you claimed to be. The odd thing you said was if Trish was Town then that's what made you think Jane was Scum. That's what I'd like to hear more explanation of. I don't see how Teish being Town incriminates Jane more.

Everyone scrutinize me, please. I welcome it.

[JimBee]

Honestly, the evidence points toward it being a serial killer (there are few people here who would daykill blindly as town) and Oscar has a history of assuming things. Why do you automatically write it off as a vig? Are you the real serial killer and you know there can't be more than one?

Er, are you talking to me? Oscar is the one thinking it's the vig.

I stand by my assertion that Jane would make a good big kill. We can't get her to respond or pay attention. Killing her would get her off our suspect list. The difference is I'm not at all sure she's Scum as you claimed to be. The odd thing you said was if Trish was Town then that's what made you think Jane was Scum. That's what I'd like to hear more explanation of. I don't see how Teish being Town incriminates Jane more.

Because obviously on a bandwagon for a townie there's going to be scum. And Jane's response was very typical of a scum trying to nonchalantly hop on the bandwagon.

[Tamamono]

I stand by my assertion that Jane would make a good big kill. We can't get her to respond or pay attention. Killing her would get her off our suspect list. The difference is I'm not at all sure she's Scum as you claimed to be. The odd thing you said was if Trish was Town then that's what made you think Jane was Scum. That's what I'd like to hear more explanation of. I don't see how Teish being Town incriminates Jane more.

I have to agree here. Sara/Jane are both great daykills (Wild Dragon too, but I don't know if we want him dead just yet - he can be a great asset when town), and if the daykiller is town, it's in his/her best interests to eliminate our highest suspects quickly, no matter their affiliation - just to clear the field of distractions.

And while I don't know why Jimmy would say he was sure of Jane's affiliation if Trish flipped town, but I would say the way she voted for her definitely puts her under scrutiny today, whatever that's worth.

Er, are you talking to me? Oscar is the one thinking it's the vig.

Didn't you just say in big bold letters that it was the vig? Or were you being sarcastic?

[JimBee]

Didn't you just say in big bold letters that it was the vig? Or were you being sarcastic?

Please pay attention. When I say "Oscar told the vig", that's what he did. He said "vig, please kill Jane today." This does not mean that I think or know that the day killer is a vig. I simply mean that Oscar told who he thinks is the vig to kill Jane.

Is that clear to you?

[Tamamono]

Please pay attention. When I say "Oscar told the vig", that's what he did. He said "vig, please kill Jane today." This does not mean that I think or know that the day killer is a vig. I simply mean that Oscar told who he thinks is the vig to kill Jane.

Is that clear to you?

Yes, that makes sense now, sorry, there was a lot to catch up on.

[def]

Well, this is interesting news about Walter. I would still like to find out what the black glasses in Daisy's room meant, if only so that we can know a little better what the flavor cop action is seeing, but I'm happy to postpone that lynch until a day comes along with no one more obvious to lynch.

I would like to make a note though that one of the circumstantial points on Walter, that he didn't try the lie detector until after it was over, also holds true to Daisy. I'm sure that the scum wouldn't have thought a lie detector implausible.

[Captain Genaro]

I honestly don't know how to feel about Oscar's statements regarding Walter's alignment. I would like to believe that Oscar and his source were correct but at the same time I think that it would be too much of a coincidence for Walter to have been blocked AND for someone to have chosen to watch him with their lunch.

Oscar, are you sure that Walter was being blocked and not protected?

[Shadows]

Lots of suspects for the day and given the early ending on majority vote situation, I think we would be smart to pace our voting and not end things before we can actually discuss them fully or a mistake will just let the scum pile on and prevent progress that could be important later. At this stage, the more discussion we have, the better.

Everyone scrutinize me, please. I welcome it.

You have a bad habit of declaring that I'm playing my scum game when you wouldn't know my scum game if it bit you in the furry little megablocks or you wouldn't have a history of getting me killed when we're both townies. And losing when I'm scum, unless you are too. There, scrutinized.

Oh, and you're not a gopher, but that was a classic. Have a penny.

[Hinckley]

I would like to make a note though that one of the circumstantial points on Walter, that he didn't try the lie detector until after it was over, also holds true to Daisy. I'm sure that the scum wouldn't have thought a lie detector implausible.

Fred, may I suggest you have a bit of tunnel vision on Daisy. She did give us "I'm totally Scum" which we could've tested. It wouldn't have cleared her of SK which we've seen no evidence of.

I honestly don't know how to feel about Oscar's statements regarding Walter's alignment. I would like to believe that Oscar and his source were correct but at the same time I think that it would be too much of a coincidence for Walter to have been blocked AND for someone to have chosen to watch him with their lunch.

Oscar, are you sure that Walter was being blocked and not protected?

Nobody watched him. Where are you getting this? And why haven't you answered my earlier question ?

[Hinckley]

Heather has just called me a liar in private. Heather, I encourage you to explain that here. I have nothing to hide and I'm not a fan of waiting for people to explain themselves. I haven't lied about anything. So what's up?

[Darkdragon]

Everyone is busy talking and talking and talking...not getting any work done, while Julia slaves away to get things ready for the big event.

Meanwhile, Jane decides she should feed the chickens instead of participate in discussion. I guess she thought they looked a bit peckish....

So she grabs a bucket of grain and heads off to the chicken-hill.

"Oh Hi my chick chick friends! I have some num nums for you!"

"Woa hey, why are you... hey! get off me! Somebody help meeee!!!"

"Bad chickens..bad...owch....my face...it hurts so much...stop pecking me...ouch..."

Julia hears the cries for help and runs out to the hill, but she is too late. Jane (JackJonespaw) lies in a pool of her own blood, the chickens are nowhere to be seen.

Julia calls everyone over to the hill to show them what has become of Jane.

"I, really don't know what to say here. This...is a huge mess. It's going to take hours to clean this grass and where are the chickens? If you hadn't killed the vet, maybe we could have gotten more apples and asked that horse what she saw."

Julia sighs.

"You three, start cleaning this mess. I'll figure out if she was a horse killer and let you know tomorrow. All the fumes from cleaning the bathrooms has me a bit confused."

[Tamamono]

Awesome, it appears the day killer is on our side. It's really a shame that we don't get to see Jane's affiliation until tomorrow, but our lynch today is already determined, so it's just the waiting game at this point.

[Hinckley]

Um...it appears we have a day killer...who follows the advice of hedgehogs...

[def]

Hmmm. Do we agree these day kills seem like God-kills more than some kind of SK? It's not the different killing styles that make me think so, but that the narrative contrivance needed to get chickens to kill as an action seems unlikely.

I honestly had no idea who Jane was, much less Zara. It seems to be a product of absenteeism.

[Piratedave84]

Zara yesterday, Jane today, there is no rhyme or reason to these 2 kills!

If they are in fact vig or SK kills they were most likely base purely on inactivity which makes it even harder to try and find said killer.

Very strange!

[def]

Addendum: apparently not

[iamded]

My my my, that was a stroke of genius on the apple/cake/steak thing. Good thinking, Daisy.

The news on Walter seems pretty damning to me. It's not often there are no night kills, and to see someone blocked, well, my money's on the blocked fellow being a killer.

I'm curious to see where Heather's accusation towards the hedgehog goes as well.

Also, holy crap, the chickens are murderers. These day deaths, man! After yesterday's hay bale incident I figured it was an act of god, or perhaps a trap killer. I don't see how killer chickens are a trap though, or a weapon or what. I don't understand how any killer could utilise these methods, they seem more like random acts of chaos. But then, it's the only kills that have taken place, so I'm kind of doubting it's an act of God. Also I now agree with the point made yesterday, if it was an act of god surely there'd be some clarification of that? Yeesh, I'm eager to hear other's opinions because it's all confusing to me.

[DarthPotato]

This has to be a Vig then, I don't see a serial killer following the advice of others. It's interesting how they get to kill in the day too, and it gives us more to discuss. It'll be interesting to see what jane flips up as tomorrow.

[def]

This has to be a Vig then, I don't see a serial killer following the advice of others. It's interesting how they get to kill in the day too, and it gives us more to discuss. It'll be interesting to see what jane flips up as tomorrow.

Well, depending on the SK's win condition (if it's win with the survivors, or eliminate all players), the SK can make a choice to work with town, since odds are town wins in the early days when the numbers are high.

[Dannylonglegs]

Well, I was completely and utterly wrong. Sorry. It seems these day-deaths are in fact the work of some day-killer. I won't press it further, because it would appear that the Day-killer is on our side, but it's certainly odd that so many people called it before hand though. I thought it was certainly unlikely.

I wonder if Oscar's right and Jane was scum. I really couldn't tell the difference between this game and her usual game, but either way, those who add nothing to the conversation aren't particularly pro-town even if they are town.

Anyways, I agree that Walter A. was acting suspicious yesterday, and B. was blocked on a night with no scum kill and therefore should be lynched.

[Shadows]

That certainly narrows down the selection process for the day, doesn't it?

I'll just add in my agreement that this doesn't look like the hand of god and that it would be an odd choice for a SK or even the scum, since it was a target we might have eventually lynched ourselves. Let's hope for good results.

[Hinckley]

The hay had a chain attached to it, the chickens...ate a person. I've been on this farm a long time. I'm sure those chickens have never attacked a human before. Someone is controlling this. They booby trapped the hay and poured something on Jane to make the chickens crave her flesh.

Duh.