a 9 volt system question...

[Brick Miner]

i hope someone, who has experience with the 9 volt system, can share some knowledge :'-) !!! because i have a question that could save me some cash...

can 9V system power be "split" from one source to two different outlets ??? for example, i want to power both, a set of train track contacts (to run the train), AND a micro motor from one power source (in this case, the train speed regulator).

is this physically possible, or will this cause a short-circuit, or worse ??? it seems possible, using a pair of electrical wire bricks (and attaching them to the top of the train track contacts, where they attach to the speed regulator), but because im a novice about the 9V system, i have no idea what would happen :'-( !!!

any feedback would be greatly appreciated !!!

thanks - BrickMiner

[WesternOutlaw]

I believe you can do it BM. I powered a light and a track once using the method you explained (multiple wires from the speed regulator).

I did a little research and came across this at Lego Train Depot:

You can use one controller to power two loops. You could either have two totally independent loops or have them connected by points in some way. If you want independent loops you will need an extra #5305 9V Train Connecting Lead to get the power to it. Since most people don't have extra leads, however, you probably want to go with the points method. Points can route power to another loop as well as allowing the trains to swap over for a bit of variety. This is explained in more detail in the section on How To Wire Up Layouts With Points. But if you just want to see an example, look at Euro Two Track.

If you can power two different sets of track with the same contoller (using an extra connecting wire), I don't see why you can't power a track and something else (like the motor you indicated).

[Brick Miner]

thanks brickster *y* ok, so you powered a light and a track from one speed regulator. these seems very similar to what i am looking to do.

nice.

and thanks for doing a little research on my behalf... i've not heard of this "Lego Train Depot". i wonder if this is a message board, or just an online reference site ??? id like to do some additional searching for answers to more specific questions, i just wasn't sure where to look ;-)

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my next logical question is a little more specific... i wonder if the train speed regulator would control the amount of "speed" the micro motor spins at ??? however, this probably has more to do with the receiving unit, than the train speed regulator itself. for example, the light unit that brickster mentioned probably doesn't allow bright to brighter variance... once it receives power, its just "on".

it is possible the micro motor is limited to the same "on" or "off" positions.

in a similar case, has anyone tried the technic 9V motor 5x4x2,1/3 or technic 9V mini motor with the train speed regulator. all three motors (large, mini, and micro) probably run similarly when powered by the train speed regulator.

lets shed some light on this ;-)

thanks - BrickMiner

[TaltosVT]

my next logical question is a little more specific... i wonder if the train speed regulator would control the amount of "speed" the micro motor spins at ??? however, this probably has more to do with the receiving unit, than the train speed regulator itself. for example, the light unit that brickster mentioned probably doesn't allow bright to brighter variance... once it receives power, its just "on".

it is possible the micro motor is limited to the same "on" or "off" positions.

in a similar case, has anyone tried the technic 9V motor 5x4x2,1/3 or technic 9V mini motor with the train speed regulator. all three motors (large, mini, and micro) probably run similarly when powered by the train speed regulator.

You can run all of the above off from the train regulator. The speed (or brightness in the case of a light) is controlled by the regulator. I've run lights and track off from the same controller. The light dims and the train slows as you decrease power at the regulator. I've also run the 9v technic motors from a train regulator. The members of my local LEGO users group do this all the time to control the motors for the carnival rides we have on our train layout. We've also run multiple motors off from the same controller so that we can run several different rides at the same time.

-Elroy

[Brick Miner]

well taltos... you were the member i was looking for !!! i can't believe even the lights are velocity sensitive !?!?!?

i guess my "on" or "off" theory was wrong.

thanks for the info, now to start buying some of those expensive motors ;-)

- BrickMiner

[Landlubber]

You should be able to run a good number of different devices off the one controller at the same time. I've had 3 trains running on the one loop at the same time ( motorised christmas train, converted 7740 and a double size High speed train). Only problem I encountered was that the lighter trains would catch up to the heavy one eventually creating one huge long train. If it'll run 3 motors pulling 13 odd carriages there's no reason you couldn't run a whole heap of lights or a good number of micromotors. The 9V Technic cables will plug onto your power regulator no problem as well for runnung lights and motors and they come in ssizes from 10 cm up to about 50cm I think.

[Brick Miner]

You should be able to run a good number of different devices off the one controller at the same time. I've had 3 trains running on the one loop at the same time ( motorised christmas train, converted 7740 and a double size High speed train). Only problem I encountered was that the lighter trains would catch up to the heavy one eventually creating one huge long train. If it'll run 3 motors pulling 13 odd carriages there's no reason you couldn't run a whole heap of lights or a good number of micromotors. The 9V Technic cables will plug onto your power regulator no problem as well for runnung lights and motors and they come in ssizes from 10 cm up to about 50cm I think.

i would have expected multiple trains (on one loop or track system) to run from one train speed regulator, as technically it is only 1 output. i find it simpler to think of the track as being powered (not each individual train). im more worried about "splitting" the power.

but this gives me a good idea on how much power the train speed regulators can actually produce !!! with my current set up i only have 1 six car train, and i can't even get the train speed regulator dial more than a quarter of the way up before the train looks like its gonna derail !!!

i figured there was some power behind it ;-)

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the only information i have gotten so far, that i don't like, is that the technic motors (large, mini, and micro) are velocity sensitive... for my purposes, i was hoping they were just "on" or "off" as if plugged into a batter box. oh well, my MOC will still work *sweet*

thanks to everyone !!!

- BrickMiner

[alex54]

All the answers have been said, but what is your moc project? I'm curious... And more when it use electric system... A www train maybe...

The next time I build my train layout, I will try to put 2 train track contacts from my speed regulator. Because, with my 3 trains and 4 motors, they run so slowly!

[Grrr]

All the 9v items that I have used (first 2 gen 9V motors, micromotors, light, sound modules, even trains) will run off the speed regulartor, or even off the old square battery boxes. I still use the original technic control center for this purpose.

From what I have found, any 9v power source will as many items as you want it to, though the motors lose torque and the lights dim (eventually going down to nothing). The train regulator has the least issues in this regard however, being mains powered. What I have also found is that on a heavy load one can increase the voltage going in (though do this at your own risk) to reduce these effects. (I use a third party multivoltage adapter for mine as my only regulator has a british plug on it).

[Brick Miner]

All the answers have been said, but what is your moc project? I'm curious... And more when it use electric system... A www train maybe...

your possibly right alex... actually your right on !!!

a WW train (with passenger and frieght depot) is what im currently working on, but it probably wont be my next published MOC :-/ i've got a stage coach that will probably surface here on EB sometime in february... the train system will hopefully finish up next summer 8-

[Section8]

One important thing, BrickMiner: The Speed Regulator only puts out a full 9V when cranked to the max. I compared it to a standard 9V battery box with a micromotor and lights and they only worked at full speed with the dial all the way up. So the speed reg. puts out voltage up to 9V max, so you don't have to worry about burning anything out. I assumed the max setting would put out more than 9V due to how fast the train motor runs at that setting, but I was wrong. It's pretty elegant how Lego designed the speed reg that way.

The micromotor spins at 33 RPM, so making it go slower might not have the desired effect. I would probably use a standard box and gear it up or down. The speed reg is great for slowing down those old high RPM technic motors though.

[Brick Miner]

hmmm... well, this is interesting.

so, it sounds like if i have the speed regulator only cranked up a quarter the way, the micromotor would only spin at a quarter of 33 RPM (approximatley 8 RPM). am i understanding this correctly ???

if this is true, it could actually work in my favor *sweet*

- BrickMiner

[Grrr]

hmmm... well, this is interesting.

so, it sounds like if i have the speed regulator only cranked up a quarter the way, the micromotor would only spin at a quarter of 33 RPM (approximatley 8 RPM). am i understanding this correctly ???

if this is true, it could actually work in my favor *sweet*

- BrickMiner

If I remember correctly it does - I will dig out my transformer tommorrow and have a look for you.

[Brick Miner]

that is very kind of you X-D

[lostcarpark]

so, it sounds like if i have the speed regulator only cranked up a quarter the way, the micromotor would only spin at a quarter of 33 RPM (approximatley 8 RPM). am i understanding this correctly ???

That's the gist of it.

The speed of a motor or the brightness of a lamp is proportional to the voltage of the current from the transformer. The dial on the speed regulator simply varies the output voltage, so turning down the regulator will slow your motor as well as the train.

Obviously if you're using one regulator to control both the train and the motor, their speeds will always be linked. Also, because of variations in motor and voltage, the relationship may not be perfectly linear.

You could also consider adding a switch between the speed regulator and the motor to allow you to turn it off while keeping your train running.

[Brick Miner]

One important thing, BrickMiner: The Speed Regulator only puts out a full 9V when cranked to the max. I compared it to a standard 9V battery box with a micromotor and lights and they only worked at full speed with the dial all the way up. So the speed reg. puts out voltage up to 9V max, so you don't have to worry about burning anything out. I assumed the max setting would put out more than 9V due to how fast the train motor runs at that setting, but I was wrong. It's pretty elegant how Lego designed the speed reg that way.

ok, i thought about this some more, and now it's not making any sense :'-(

if it is true, that the lights only run at full capacity when the speed regulator is pushed to the maximum (9 volts), then LEGO EXPRESS sets 4534 and 4535 don't make much sense. those trains are so light weight that there is no way one could push the speed regulator all the way. that means the light would never run at full ???

i bet those trains run best at about 1/8 (for 4534) or 1/4 (for 4535) of the speed regulators full capacity... that means the light would only glow at 1/8 to 1/4 its capacity. am i understanding this correctly ??? why would LEGO make a set like that... it seems to me that you would always want the light at full ???

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You could also consider adding a switch between the speed regulator and the motor to allow you to turn it off while keeping your train running.

this sounds promising... though im not familiar with this "switch" element ???

- BrickMiner

[lostcarpark]

if it is true, that the lights only run at full capacity when the speed regulator is pushed to the maximum (9 volts), then LEGO EXPRESS sets 4534 and 4535 don't make much sense. those trains are so light weight that there is no way one could push the speed regulator all the way. that means the light would never run at full ???

This is true of all 9V and 12V trains - when the train stops, the light goes off, and as it slows it dims. I can't remember the specific sets you list there, but I have quite a few 9V trains, and I've never found one that I can't get up to full speed on the straights, but you often have to slow them around corners. As I mention, the relationship between the apparent brightness of a light and the voltage is not always linear, so you can have a slow running train still appear quite bright. When you crank up to the full 9V it can be quite dazzling.

this sounds promising... though im not familiar with this "switch" element ???

I must admit I'm not too familiar with them either, though I'm sure there are electrical experts who could give a list of suitable parts. One you could try is a pole reversing switch.

[Brick Miner]

thanks for all your insights LCP... and to everyone else *y* *y* *y*

- BrickMiner

[Grrr]

OK, so at anything past around 2 o'clock the motor spins - albeit very slowly at that point. Lights get quite bright quite quickly though. At the low settings the motor doesn't seem to have a lot of torque though.

The switch element (pole reverser - http://www.peeron.com/inv/parts/6551 ) works a treat to open/close 9V circuits.

[Freddie]

The new battery-train bases work the same way. It adjusts the voltage between preset levels. The higher the voltage is, the faster the motor goes, and the brighter the lamp shines. Mind you, the lamp will still shine at full brightness independent of the motor. Mashing the accelerator will see a heavy train smoothly accelerate up to top speed with the lamps at full blaze.

The new IR components used in the new Creator and Technic sets will work in the same fashion I guess, but will use an independent power source, instead of the built-in battery box the new trains use.