LOTR & The Hobbit 2012

[BrickBucket]

I find the success of LOTR Lego discussion quite interesting, but I'm wondering how you guys declare a theme to be success/failure after it's released. Does anyone have access to figures or is it purely based on press/hearsay and seeing what ends up in clearance at the end of the year. I have to say I saw almost all of POTC sets in clearance at Walmart and I suspected it wasn't a huge seller, same for POP and Toy Story and some of the Cars sets.

Personally I'll be getting the LOTR sets for the parts/figures and cause I love the films, and although I was at first a bit suspicious if these sets will sell well, I realize that even if kids have no clue what LOTR is, the sets are dark, aggressive and filled with lots cool stuff (despite being as Clone O'Patra called it 'lumps of grey'), my younger kid brother loves bad guys and anything evil looking, so he'd probably like it without even knowing what it's about, he can't even read books yet lol. So in my opinion they will do as good if not better than POTC, and quite possibly the previous Castle theme, but I could be totally off (which is still good, cause then I get these sets cheap on clearance!). I'm really looking forward to all those new brick pattern 1x2's .

[Clone OPatra]

I find the success of LOTR Lego discussion quite interesting, but I'm wondering how you guys declare a theme to be success/failure after it's released. Does anyone have access to figures or is it purely based on press/hearsay and seeing what ends up in clearance at the end of the year.

It's all hearsay, and on top of that it's all hearsay that is very likely to be wrong. We don't actually know what's successful and what's not, but I could tell you the factors and signs that make me think one way or another. The clearance thing is one; if an entire theme ends up on clearance, and the amount of clearance stock is quite large, that sort of says something. The amount of waves a theme has and the strength of each wave also say something, but they don't always need to be together. Spongebob has tiny waves, but it's lasted for 6 years! That makes it strong. Indiana Jones had three strong waves and one small one in the middle, and Batman had a similar life; those themes seem successful to me.

Then there are specific things that make themes seem unsuccessful (like clearance, already mentioned). If a theme is a one-off, it isn't necessarily unsuccessful, but it feels that way. It especially feels that way when it's a property that could easily be made into multiple waves because of the amount of material, like Pirates or Avatar. The fact that these themes only had one wave despite all of the unmade source material makes them seem unsuccessful. And finally, there are themes that feel like they die off. Harry Potter started out with lots of sets, but they only made four for the fourth film, and just one for the fifth. That made it seem like the theme was getting unsuccessful to me (although ultimately, it came back with a bunch more sets).

We'll have to see where LotR goes. It will certainly have more than one wave (if it doesn't, then it's definitely unsuccessful). But will each wave be strong (five sets or more, IMO)? And more importantly, will the last wave be strong (since they often release small ones in the middle)?

[Kayne]

Wow, I spend a couple of days away not checking the forum and it blows up! When I saw how many new pages were here I was really hoping to see news that someone found the sets on the shelves somewhere already. Oh well...back to the lurking and waiting.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Kayne

[Lyichir]

You say yourself right here why I don't like these sets and why I don't think the theme will be all that sustainable. It's not about kids not being able to relate to the source material as much as it is a lack of interesting sets. These sets are entirely about the minifigures, with, as you say, some 'scenery.'

These sets having no 'set' part to them. Even Helms Deep, which will make a fine display piece, is basically just a big wall and a single room... for 140 bucks (more in Europe). Mines of Moria is just a bunch of grey. Weathertop is a big pile of bricks making a hill, for 60 bucks. I'm sorry, but these are not impressive sets. The minifigures are impressive, and to an older crowd who is into Lord of the Rings the sets themselves might be fun, but I feel like to a kid a lump of grey is not a spectacular set when one can get neat ships in Star Wars and Superheroes, all sorts of cool structures in the likes of Ninjago, and nice vehicles and fully realized buildings in city. Lumps of grey and dark green and brown just don't compare, despite awesome minifigures.

I totally disagree with your evaluation. The sets in this theme are quite impressive even disregarding the minifigs that come with them. Even without considering the Nazgul, the Weathertop set looks quite ominous. And Helms Deep is perhaps one of the most interesting castles to come from LEGO in some time, eschewing a rectangular form as it does in favor of a multi-leveled round construction. Even if I didn't know who Gandalf was, the set of his cart outshines sets like 7955 Wizard. The Mines of Moria set calls to mind a similarly-atmospheric tomb set, the Harry Potter Graveyard Duel. And I wouldn't have to know who Shelob, Gollum, Sam or Frodo were to know that I wanted the set with the awesome brick-built giant spider! Characters alone haven't been enough to get me to buy licensed themes for some time, as evidenced by the fact that even as the figs continue to improve I haven't bought a Star Wars set in years. But these LotR sets are tempting, and it's primarily because of the amazing structures this theme has already provided.

[Jack Bricker]

You sound as if people cannot have an unfavorable disposition towards sets before they are released. If that is the case, why are you allowed to think they are all great and wonderful? You can't know; they haven't been released.

I cannot understand what's wrong with some healthy discussion about the upcoming sets. I am more than allowed to form opinions about sets I do not own; that's part of how I decide which sets I wish to buy. Sure, sometimes I think I want a set and then end up not liking it very much (happened for all three of the PotC sets I got), but I always form an opinion.

You also just seem to be ranting. I am neither just a classic castle nor SW fan, I dabble in pretty much everything. I am not voicing my opinions to attack you or to attack Lord of the Rings or to attack anything. I am not even making any strong claims. I qualify just about everything in one way or another.

Please take a second and breathe, and voice your opinions in something other than a rant. Ranting is not very constructive.

I wasn't ranting at you are anybody else, I guess I just felt that people were comparing the new LOTR sets to sets like the black pearl from POTC were the set design was clearly lacking when you look at the sets and all of the detail that they put into them I really think Lego went all out and I am of course going off of the toy fair pics that let me see the set from all angles so I do have a pretty good idea of how well built they are.

I just felt that people were judging the LOTR sets too harshly too soon and not even giving the theme a chance and that is what I was responding to. I know that with POTC there were some major issues. The Queen Annes Revenge is basically like an easter egg shell to me because the outside is gorgeous but there is no interior. The cannons don't even have wheels. The black pearl was a major let down for me as the rear cabin is just butchered looking and I cannot put cannons on the two rear gun ports. The London Escape looks like it was trying to be both Tortuga and that tavern in London but there is no bar wench, generic pirates or anything else to lend playability and the carriages are only drawn by one horse each and you don't get enough soldiers to really make a good scene with that. I am a huge fan of POTC and all of these sets had both legitimate problems with both the parts and mini-figures included and with the designs of the core sets themselves. That all being said I don't see any issues like that with LOTR. The Helms Deep set is extremely detailed and has a lot of interesting pieces included. Just look at the BrickShow Prerelease review on youtube. The Mines of Moria I think does a satisfactory job of depicting that one battle although it would have been cool to get the bridge with the balroc instead. And I really like the weathertop set.

So, no I wasn't trying to rant and rave I was just pointing what I was observing and trying to make a point that comparing LOTR to a rather unsuccessful theme when we really haven't seen the sets come out yet is a little to harsh and too soon.

[Ash]

It's all hearsay, and on top of that it's all hearsay that is very likely to be wrong. We don't actually know what's successful and what's not...

The exception to this is that we do find out when things are a big success in varous press releases and annual reports. When something is a big success (Ninjago, Friends) they will not hesitate to let the world know about it!

Despite what some people are saying here I've seen PotC cited as a success in official releases in a number of occasions. One thing I think needs to be taken into account is that choosing not to do another wave of a particular line will be based on whether or not they think that another line would be successful. And while past performance will be a factor in that it is far from being the only one. All that aside I don't see speculation about the success of an unreleased line as being off-topic. Some people enjoy that kind of stuff and as long as we're aknowledging it is only speculation I don't see the harm.

[Faefrost]

Okay, this discussion has gotten heated fast. Now, I am going to voice my opinions on the matters discussed recently.

Firstly, some people have been viewing these sets and trying to gauge their success based on how kids will like them. Now, I understand that LEGO is a children's toy. But, not all of LEGO's products are for kids. There are many sets (SW UCS especially) that have clearly been aimed for a much older audience. Of course, this older target market for these sets is based on the difficulty of the construction of the sets, not the actual theme it is from. Yet, I remember also reading here recently (or it might have been from something I saw on YouTube) that LEGO means to target this theme at an older target market. They realize that these sets probably won't be super successful with their younger buyers. That being said, I think that us older fans should try to hold this theme up for as long as we can! I mean, if there are as many people here that want this theme to last as I think, then it is on our shoulders, not the little kids, to make this theme last!

Secondly, people seem to believe that this theme won't be successful. Now, I do not believe for a second that this theme could be as successful as Star Wars. No other theme LEGO ever does could ever match the success of Star Wars. That being said, I am upset when I see people comparing this theme to POTC. These are two completely different themes that cannot be compared in the slightest! People say that POTC was not popular because the fourth film was crap (or maybe that is just me ), and some say that the same will happen to LOTR because it is not too popular either. That the films are outdated. That kids won't know it. LOTR is WAY more popular than POTC ever was or will ever be. POTC wasn't based on an extremely famous book that has had a strong fan base for over 60 years. It was based on a Disney ride. Now, I am not bashing POTC. I'm a big fan myself. But the popularity of LOTR is so much more than that of POTC, or of any of the other licensed themes (other than SW and HP), and that popularity will (hopefully) sustain it past a couple of years.

Lastly, this theme will not, and cannot, fizzle out too fast. That is because A) this is only the first wave, B) the next wave is only for the Hobbit part 1, and C) the Hobbit part 2 won't be released until a whole year after the first. That gives a whole year of space for LEGO to release potentially two waves of LOTR/Hobbit part 1 sets, peppered with maybe a couple of exclusives. Then, there would be the new wave of Hobbit sets based on a whole new movie. The popularity that was around for the LOTR films, I'm anticipating, will come back for these Hobbit films, which means that the demand for epic LOTR and Hobbit sets will be there, and LEGO will be (hopefully) firing out about 2-3 waves of Hobbit sets and 3-5 waves of LOTR, with some exclusives, over the course of maybe three or four years. Of course, all of this is pretty much hopes and dreams for the further of this theme and where it could go, but it cannot be denied that the release of two new films based in the world of Middle-Earth won't call for the release of as many LEGO sets as can possibly released.

Anyway, I apologize if this turned into a rant (which it may have, and that was not my intention), but I just needed to get my thoughts out.

I think the LotR theme has a great deal of potential. But looking at the initial offerings in this first wave, I do have some concerns regarding their choices and stylings/aesthetics. Especially if they are as expected targeting an older 12+ and adults range.

The sets being offered seem to have a similar issue with some of the potc non ship sets. they are trying more to portray scenes rather than places or distinctive things such as vehicles. This results in some somewhat schizophrenic sets that end up as a couple of oft repeated minifigs, some half walls and scenery and maybe a big monster thingy. over in the Star Wars line, the Hoth Wampa cave is a neat interesting little set. it works because the rest of the line is all vehicles or distinct places. A whole line of Wampa caves simply wouldn't work as well. And that is kind of what the first series of LotR seems to be.

Of the initial offerings, the only one that jumps out as a true show stopper. The perfect Lego LotR kit, is Gandalf in his little cart. It sings of everything we want. But Orc Attack? Helms Deep has some potential, but still feels a little off from what we can see. Not one thing or another yet.

We want a nicely detailed Bag End, a full building Prancing Pony, a 900piece Rivendell. For smaller sets please something a little more than a few figs and a partial wall. That's what sort of suq'ed with some of the potc sets. Woohoo it's got 2coaches and 2walls of an inn. Bleach!

And I hope they shake up the colors a bit. While middle earth is more earth tones on film, please back away from the grey bricks just a tad. Shake up the scheduled offerings to at least toss in some green and brown themed sets, so it all doesn't feel the same on the shelves.

[Odin's son Fred]

Wow, I spend a couple of days away not checking the forum and it blows up! When I saw how many new pages were here I was really hoping to see news that someone found the sets on the shelves somewhere already. Oh well...back to the lurking and waiting.

My feelings exactly.

[vexorian]

Has anyone found a kid that is excited about the Hobbit movie? I think I have seen big foot once though.

Can like the theme all right. Maybe LoTR really is your life and all, and you would prefer this to Castle. But outside of subjective opinions, this theme will either be unsuccessful or hurt Castle. Because we got antecedents and it is clear to me that SW hurt space. Space switched from a classical LEGO thing, in fact the first actual theme to a secondary bonus theme that might appear some years in merely some regions and get much less priority than SW.

Edited April 13, 2012 by vexorian

[Venunder]

I'll be buying them all. But Legolas is mine. My precioussss's.

[Philip Robin]

I'll be buying them all. But Legolas is mine. My precioussss's.

He may be yours now…

But soon enough, I'll be making like Bilbo Baggins and taking that precious.

I will pass it down through generations and you will never get it back!

Edited April 13, 2012 by Philip Robin

[CMP]

Has anyone found a kid that is excited about the Hobbit movie? I think I have seen big foot once though.

No commercials have really shown up yet. It'll get much more hyped later on in the year, I'm sure.

[Gryphon Ink]

Has anyone found a kid that is excited about the Hobbit movie? I think I have seen big foot once though.

Um, yes. My daughter is very excited about it. Other kids I don't know about, but I suspect most of them don't know that there is a movie coming out. How many people were excited about the Avengers movie before they found out it was happening?

The kids will hear about the Hobbit when the real marketing begins. Maybe then they will be excited, maybe not. Until then, Bigfoot lives in my house.

[Alex the Great]

Has anyone found a kid that is excited about the Hobbit movie? I think I have seen big foot once though.

Can like the theme all right. Maybe LoTR really is your life and all, and you would prefer this to Castle. But outside of subjective opinions, this theme will either be unsuccessful or hurt Castle. Because we got antecedents and it is clear to me that SW hurt space. Space switched from a classical LEGO thing, in fact the first actual theme to a secondary bonus theme that might appear some years in merely some regions and get much less priority than SW.

It will be succesful I'm sure. A succesful line doesn't mean it lasts as long as Star Wars. It will probably last a few years, after that Castle will be back; so I also don't think that it will really hurt Castle.

[Fives]

If anything, this theme will make Castle stronger. With all the new molds and what not that will be produced for this theme (although, yes, most will only be used for this theme), there will be so many new possibilities for pieces and sets for a future Castle line.

[LittleMarshmallow]

I think these sets are really cools. And i love the hairpieces. So, i want these sets NOW! :devil:

[Lyichir]

Has anyone found a kid that is excited about the Hobbit movie? I think I have seen big foot once though.

Can like the theme all right. Maybe LoTR really is your life and all, and you would prefer this to Castle. But outside of subjective opinions, this theme will either be unsuccessful or hurt Castle. Because we got antecedents and it is clear to me that SW hurt space. Space switched from a classical LEGO thing, in fact the first actual theme to a secondary bonus theme that might appear some years in merely some regions and get much less priority than SW.

In my opinion Star Wars helped Space themes. Life on Mars, in retrospect, was not all that great. When Space returned after a hiatus of about half a decade, it did so with epic themes like Mars Mission. Yes, the themes became few and far between, but the ones which returned far surpassed the old Space themes. The LotR sets look amazing, and appear to be aimed at a more experienced audience. If the innovations they bring are carried back over to Castle, I'm all for it.

Besides, as has been observed, LotR is not a neverending media franchise like Star Wars. I expect we may get one or two years of LotR after the the second Hobbit movie is released, at most. I think it's more comparable to the Indiana Jones theme, which ended about a year after Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, than to Star Wars, which has been going strong in one form or another since its debut.

[Graysmith]

For smaller sets please something a little more than a few figs and a partial wall.

That partial wall (and assault wagon) is a trope of LEGO Castle sets though. It follows in the footsteps of the 6061 Siege Tower from 1984, the 6062 Battering Ram from 1987, the 6059 Knight's Stronghold from 1990, 7037 Tower Raid from 2008 and most recently the 7948 Outpost Attack from 2010 (and possibly others I'm forgetting).

I can understand that most people look at the Uruk-hai Army set and don't get excited about it compared to the others, but in a way it's the most traditional LEGO Castle set of all the LOTR sets (especially since Helm's Deep isn't really a castle). Any LEGO Castle fan who knows their history should be excited about it, as far as I'm concerned!

Edited April 15, 2012 by Graysmith

[Blaze]

I'm really excited about the LOTR line and can't wait 'till June! But then again, I always wondered why Lego didn't made a Lotr line right after the movies. If one universe applied itself great for Lego it would be Middle Earth. But I was 15 when the movies aired, so I had no idea it had anything to do with rights etc. (That was the reason right? I don't know if I'm right here...)

The only few things I don't like are the use of the old halberds in the uruk-hai army, they could have made a new weapon I think and the hairpiece of Legolas, he is a great archer, but he can't equip a quiver?! I think the Lego Group could have come up with something there. (I dont know if I´m saying very old things now, I haven´t read all the 200+ pages, so my apologies if I'm not really contributing to the conversation.)

[Fives]

I'm really excited about the LOTR line and can't wait 'till June! But then again, I always wondered why Lego didn't made a Lotr line right after the movies. If one universe applied itself great for Lego it would be Middle Earth. But I was 15 when the movies aired, so I had no idea it had anything to do with rights etc. (That was the reason right? I don't know if I'm right here...)

The only few things I don't like are the use of the old halberds in the uruk-hai army, they could have made a new weapon I think and the hairpiece of Legolas, he is a great archer, but he can't equip a quiver?! I think the Lego Group could have come up with something there. (I dont know if I´m saying very old things now, I haven´t read all the 200+ pages, so my apologies if I'm not really contributing to the conversation.)

Of course you are contributing! Opinions are always welcome. I actually agree with you on the two points you stated. The halberds seem (as much as they are classic) outdated. Yet still, I can get past their use. I mean, only so many molds can be made for one new theme. It isn't like LEGO can just go and start making a hundred new pieces for one theme, especially if they will only be unique to one or two sets! The elf hair isn't as much of a trouble for me. Sure, it would have been nice for Legolas and Haldir to be able to use quivers, but I can give up a quiver for an overall epic and accurate minifig.

Also, I've been thinking about what LEGO's site for the theme. I wonder if they will make little animations for the sets, much like the recent Star Wars sets. I think it would be a fun way for the sets to be represented to a younger market by making the animations seem a little less intense. I also really hope they come up will some sort of fun game on the site. I just can't wait any longer for these sets!

Edited April 16, 2012 by Fives

[Blaze]

Fives Yeah you're right, I know the Lego group can't go make new molds (I've seen on a tv show that one new Lego mold costs approximatly 250.000 euros/dollars ), but I think they could have used the morningstars (or what their names are...) from the castle line better. But it's a little nitpicking, the overall look is epic (yeah sorry, no other word to explain) and I can't wait!

[Vindice]

People say that POTC was not popular because the fourth film was crap (or maybe that is just me

It wasn't just you Fives. That movie was beyond crap, it made crap look good! I loved the PotC movies until I saw this. The only redeeming part of it was Geoffrey Rush.

Fives Yeah you're right, I know the Lego group can't go make new molds (I've seen on a tv show that one new Lego mold costs approximatly 250.000 euros/dollars ), but I think they could have used the morningstars (or what their names are...) from the castle line better. But it's a little nitpicking, the overall look is epic (yeah sorry, no other word to explain) and I can't wait!

Whilst tooling is very expensive, (i'd be surpised if it was a quarter of a million though) I'm sure TLG have no problem with the outlay, the concern would be over whether they could get enough use out of it to justify the cost.

[Raphy]

Pah! POTC 4 was the best one yet.

[Niku]

The only few things I don't like are the use of the old halberds in the uruk-hai army, they could have made a new weapon I think and the hairpiece of Legolas, he is a great archer, but he can't equip a quiver?! I think the Lego Group could have come up with something there. (I dont know if I´m saying very old things now, I haven´t read all the 200+ pages, so my apologies if I'm not really contributing to the conversation.)

Actually those are going to be my first halberds so no complaints about them.

About the hair of Legolas I think there is enough space separation between the back of the minifig and the actual hair piece to use a quiver, the same case for the piece hair that comes for the female on the MMV that is able to use a quiver if equipped.

[General Magma]

About the hair of Legolas I think there is enough space separation between the back of the minifig and the actual hair piece to use a quiver, the same case for the piece hair that comes for the female on the MMV that is able to use a quiver if equipped.

Eh, I don't know if you may have bent the hairpiece, but no, it isn't able to.

At least, not the ones I tried..

~ General Magma