Yakuza Family - Day 4

[Masked Builder]

A most interesting development. It is quite sad that my son was a Secret Agent, and it is most distressing that I have lost two more siblings. It is good to see that two Secret Agents were killed. I shall be going carefully over my notes on this new information about Hiroki.

[Capt. Redblade]

Ugh. Lost two Townies in one Night. Good to know that Isamu and Minoru weren't Townies, but, at the same time, they weren't Scum, either.

'It appears we've not only been infiltrated by the Mutineers, but also by a group of Special Agents who are trying to bring us down.'

Granted, they weren't Townies or Scum in the classic senses of the words, but it still sounds like they were our enemies, and the fact that they are dead sounds like progress to me.

Uhm, what?

I have no idea where you got this information from but it's definitely false, I'm a true Yazuka. I don't see how I would have came up as Scum during an investigation, it really must have been either some sort of mix-up or some framing on me. I might not have been the most outspoken person during the days here in the temple but I've always put the family first and really tried to help whenever possible.

I deny all accusations and question the sanity and honesty of whoever came up with the false result of me. I bet it's some lousy gambler that's been losing money in my casino.

I think that it is, as others have said, unlikely that anyone would have framed you. You have made no lasting contributions to the discussion, have not telegraphed your intentions as clearly as some others, and have been pretty middle-of-the-road so far. It's just enough to warrant an investigation, but not enough to warrant somebody misleading us into lynching you. If anyone was going to be framed, it would be a very active Templie whose absence would benefit the scum, i.e. Noria. Your absence (if you were innocent) would not affect the Scum either positively or negatively, so it seems like a wasted move.

I don't get it... UNLESS, they are lovers? Or, is Yoshiko performing something else. I don't quite get it why the hell the Black Ninja can be so powerful in Night 3... I thought they can only kill one at most! This is very perplexing...

I am trying to relate and possibly inclined to think that the both of them are actually LOVERS... Not sure if they knew each other are lovers or hidden from one another.

If we can, I think we should look into this lovers idea.

I'm still amazed that Tamiko is still alive, neither the Mutineers, these Secret Agents or the Vigilante took the chance to get rid of her.

People don't kill idiots as idiots are stupid...

So, you admit then that you are an idiot.

Seriously, how in the seven circles of Hell are you still alive?!

i.e. Noria.

I meant to say Norio.

I shall never forgive myself for this grievous error.

[Brickdoctor]

Granted, they weren't Townies or Scum in the classic senses of the words, but it still sounds like they were our enemies, and the fact that they are dead sounds like progress to me.

There is a good chance, I'll grant you that.

So, you admit then that you are an idiot.

Seriously, how in the seven circles of Hell are you still alive?!

He pretty much already did two Days ago. He's still alive because the Town has more important things to do and the Scum won't kill someone who's being a distraction and an obstacle for the Town.

[Scubacarrot]

I see no reason NOT to trust Norio's investigator at this point. It is good news indeed that someone got investigated as scum, and I say we go for it. About Yoshiko, does anyone else think it looks like she was a 'seductress'(Or however that role is named here)?

[Rick]

So, the black ninja is obviously one of the scum's killers. I'm tempted to believe it's the Mutineers', since Chieko, blocked on Night Two (the same night we lacked a scum kill) was apparently blocked by Minoru, a secret agent.

I was skeptical since I was positive Minoru was coming up scum the following day, that Chieko was townie, since a scum would not block their own killer. But this newest revelation, I believe, sheds a snotty green light on our geisha grandmother.

I agree with that bit of reasoning. As we concluded yesterday, she was all to happy to point out she'd been blocked by the scum blocker, happily ignoring that she could also have been blocked by our blocker. That jumping to conclusions becomes even more 'convenient' given the second faction we're up against.

Thing is, if they're both out to kill us townies...well, I read this book called Baritones (Third edition) where the scum teams merged once their numbers got low. I think that might be the case here, considering that without a killing action the secret agents have zero chance of directly eliminating townies.

They probably have to outnumber us like the Mutineers and there's another way to achieve that: by converting us. There appears to be only one (somewhat consistent) scum kill each night, so I think this is a real possibility.

It's clear that I've been used as a patsy, and I bought up Hiroki's reveal and "aid" as it went along. I was foolish.

So, Yasu wasn't the Mutineer's role-cop after all it seems, otherwise the Mutineers wouldn't have been able to give you a result on Isamu. Anyway, it looks like we are going to get rid of another Mutineer today, whether it's their true role-cop this time or not.

Yes, I know what Grandfather is inferring... And, I am trying to establish a firm cause for Yoshiko's death.. It is not logically possible for one to get killed just because she was just "hiding" behind Jirou. It is simply not possible... Which means, whoever roles is protecting, blocking, tracking, watching, and blah blah, Yoshiko can't get killed with just one simple kill action by the Black Ninja...

I am trying to relate and possibly inclined to think that the both of them are actually LOVERS... Not sure if they knew each other are lovers or hidden from one another.

A hider (a role) becomes the target of all of the actions performed on their target. So, if the hider hides behind someone who gets killed, they get killed as well. The mutineers certainly targeted the right person (from their perspective of course) last night.

I see no reason NOT to trust Norio's investigator at this point. It is good news indeed that someone got investigated as scum, and I say we go for it. About Yoshiko, does anyone else think it looks like she was a 'seductress'(Or however that role is named here)?

You have nothing to say about the suspicions against you?

[Scubacarrot]

You have nothing to say about the suspicions against you?

What do you want me to say? The case against me has not really changed, as far as I can tell, the only thing that I can gather from the results having to do with me is this: Minoru COULD indeed have blocked me if I was the scum killer, still not 100% sure about that, preventing a kill that night. He might even not have been the one that blocked me, that time. All my points I said yesterday still stand, so I don't really have anything to say about it, no.

[WhiteFang]

A hider (a role) becomes the target of all of the actions performed on their target. So, if the hider hides behind someone who gets killed, they get killed as well. The mutineers certainly targeted the right person (from their perspective of course) last night.

Thank you Kin. That is definitely a possibility as well and imagine the odds of getting it right based on the damn mutineers.. It was a lucky strike from them to reap such benefit.

[Etzel]

You weren't the obvious target. You've made no significant contributions so far as I can tell. The only thing that stood out to me was your circular reasoning about double bluffs on Day 2, which I think was nothing but unhelpful, distracting WIFOM. An obvious target would be somebody like Nobuo, at whose throat Norio has been for the majority of the situation, or Chieko, or maybe Tamiko or Lizzy. (though it is worth mentioning that Investigators should investigate those on whom they have no read, and I don't think you've done anything in public to give anyone a significant read on you, so you were a good target for the Investigator - probably not the obvious target)

In any case, if you are lynched and come up Town, we then can use that information to hunt down Scum. Statistically, we should be able to lose at least two Townies for every Scum killed and still win this situation. This is a team win situation, so I don't see much loss in lynching you, even if you come up Town.

I agree with that I'm not an obvious target, but that doesn't mean I wasn't targeted anyway. We are all humans, and humans don't act rationally all the time. Just look how Ichirou went down just the other day, he was a true Yazuka but made some less good accusations and reasoning. I don't see why the Mutineers or Secret Agents couldn't have done the same and for some reason decided to frame me, it's not the best tactic but at least they are taking out one more Yakuza.

Your second statement is just cruel and cold.

Hurrah. I was correct on Isamu's allegiance of not being a true Yakuza, however I didn't expect him to be a member of a third faction. I can't say I'm surprised there's a third faction, though.

I trust Norio's results and findings, since we've been in constant contact. If Hiroki has been investigated and found to be a Mutineer, then there is a good chance that this result is quite true. Also, the role-cop that informed me of Isamu's allegiance was Hiroki, so I suppose the Mutineers and Special Agents aren't working together. Since he came to me on Day One and claimed that he was a role-cop, I assumed he was truthful. I told him that he would be accountable if Isamu turned up to be a Yakuza instead of a mutineer, and he said he would come out and say that he was responsible completely.

He was correct about Isamu's role as a goon, which exemplifies my point of the Special Agents and Mutineers not working together.

It's clear that I've been used as a patsy, and I bought up Hiroki's reveal and "aid" as it went along. I was foolish.

What the megablocks are you talking about?

I've never been in contact with you, or someone else for the entire time here in the temple. I'm certainly not a role cop, just as I'm not a Mutineer. I don't see what you are trying to achieve with this preposterous story but you will look quite stupid if I can get cleared of these suspicions (or I'm getting lynched, but I rather not speak of that). I wish I could have been of more help to the family by being a role cop, but I'm not. I'm as happy as anyone for the death of Isamu, but I can't take any credit for it, I only did my voting in the day and that's it.

People don't kill idiots as idiots are stupid...

Oh yeah,Minoru was a PR(power role)

I think the agent's mission is to survive or something like that

Then maybe the idiots should kill themselves, sounds like a nice and stupid thing to do. It would spare us a lot of trouble.

[Tachyon]

I agree with that I'm not an obvious target, but that doesn't mean I wasn't targeted anyway. We are all humans, and humans don't act rationally all the time. Just look how Ichirou went down just the other day, he was a true Yazuka but made some less good accusations and reasoning. I don't see why the Mutineers or Secret Agents couldn't have done the same and for some reason decided to frame me, it's not the best tactic but at least they are taking out one more Yakuza.

Your second statement is just cruel and cold.

What the megablocks are you talking about?

I've never been in contact with you, or someone else for the entire time here in the temple. I'm certainly not a role cop, just as I'm not a Mutineer. I don't see what you are trying to achieve with this preposterous story but you will look quite stupid if I can get cleared of these suspicions (or I'm getting lynched, but I rather not speak of that). I wish I could have been of more help to the family by being a role cop, but I'm not. I'm as happy as anyone for the death of Isamu, but I can't take any credit for it, I only did my voting in the day and that's it.

Then maybe the idiots should kill themselves, sounds like a nice and stupid thing to do. It would spare us a lot of trouble.

You sure wish that you were vig so you could kill me.

Or maybe you could be maf?

Actually if you were maf you would kill me so scratch that.

[Brickdoctor]

I agree with that I'm not an obvious target, but that doesn't mean I wasn't targeted anyway. We are all humans, and humans don't act rationally all the time. Just look how Ichirou went down just the other day, he was a true Yazuka but made some less good accusations and reasoning. I don't see why the Mutineers or Secret Agents couldn't have done the same and for some reason decided to frame me, it's not the best tactic but at least they are taking out one more Yakuza.

We have no way of knowing whether you were actually targeted or not. The point is that there is a good chance you weren't framed.

You sure wish that you were vig so you could kill me.

Or maybe you could be maf?

Actually if you were maf you would kill me so scratch that.

No, if he was mafia, he'd be laughing at how much you're annoying the Town and leave you alive. We've been over this before.

[def]

What the megablocks are you talking about?

I've never been in contact with you, or someone else for the entire time here in the temple. I'm certainly not a role cop, just as I'm not a Mutineer. I don't see what you are trying to achieve with this preposterous story but you will look quite stupid if I can get cleared of these suspicions (or I'm getting lynched, but I rather not speak of that). I wish I could have been of more help to the family by being a role cop, but I'm not. I'm as happy as anyone for the death of Isamu, but I can't take any credit for it, I only did my voting in the day and that's it.

Fascinating Conflicting stories. It seems Akira is sure you were talking to him. You will have to be sacrificed today, and the degree of your honesty judged by dragon flame. If somehow you are true Yakuza, we will be quite perplexed tomorrow.

Really, there is no other option for the lynch today. Sorry Hiroki.

[Etzel]

We have no way of knowing whether you were actually targeted or not. The point is that there is a good chance you weren't framed.

No, if he was mafia, he'd be laughing at how much you're annoying the Town and leave you alive. We've been over this before.

A good chance yes, but not correct! I'm not scum, therefore I must've been framed, no matter what the chances are.

And yes, if I were scum I probably wouldn't mind Tamiko's annoying behaviour. But as a true Yakuxa I really do, which I've been pointing out several times.

Fascinating Conflicting stories. It seems Akira is sure you were talking to him. You will have to be sacrificed today, and the degree of your honesty judged by dragon flame. If somehow you are true Yakuza, we will be quite perplexed tomorrow.

Really, there is no other option for the lynch today. Sorry Hiroki.

I rather see that that you become perplexed today and skip all that sacrificing part. As for no other option, what about Tamiko? She has been an option for several days now with all that jester-crap and confusion she has caused.

[def]

A good chance yes, but not correct! I'm not scum, therefore I must've been framed, no matter what the chances are.

And yes, if I were scum I probably wouldn't mind Tamiko's annoying behaviour. But as a true Yakuxa I really do, which I've been pointing out several times.

Well, why don't you do the insane investigator thing? Right? There's a chance there.

I rather see that that you become perplexed today and skip all that sacrificing part. As for no other option, what about Tamiko? She has been an option for several days now with all that jester-crap and confusion she has caused.

Tamiko doesn't have a scum reading hanging over her head.

Basically, any chance you had to argue your way out is already lost

-You aren't claiming a role

-You admit to not doing much

-You've been investigated and come up scum

There's no argument there to keep you around. Actually, the townie move would have been to volunteer to be lynched, since it's better to lynch a non-active, vanilla townie over any other townie. You are, unfortunately, in the most disposable class of Yakuza, on the basis that you're telling the truth... Which you're likely not.

Why, just yesterday, Isamu claimed pretty much the same thing, and look how that turned out Yeah, it's much riskier to keep you around than it is to sacrifice you.

I suggest you take one for the team in this case

[CorneliusMurdock]

Why would Akira say you were the role cop that gave the goon result if you weren't? That role cop seemed to do us a huge favor by exposing the special agents. It makes no sense for him to lie about it.

[Etzel]

Well, why don't you do the insane investigator thing? Right? There's a chance there.

What insane investigator thing? I'm sorry, I don't follow you here.

Tamiko doesn't have a scum reading hanging over her head.

Basically, any chance you had to argue your way out is already lost

-You aren't claiming a role

-You admit to not doing much

-You've been investigated and come up scum

There's no argument there to keep you around. Actually, the townie move would have been to volunteer to be lynched, since it's better to lynch a non-active, vanilla townie over any other townie. You are, unfortunately, in the most disposable class of Yakuza, on the basis that you're telling the truth... Which you're likely not.

Why, just yesterday, Isamu claimed pretty much the same thing, and look how that turned out Yeah, it's much riskier to keep you around than it is to sacrifice you.

I suggest you take one for the team in this case

Even if Tamiko hasn't got investigated yet doesn't mean she is innocent. If we put aside the scum reading for the moment I would argue that she has a much more suspicious behaviour than me, don't you agree?

Why would I claim something I'm not? Would I just make up investigation results on people I have no evidence on, I don't see how that would've helped either the town or me.

I admit not being the most active Yakuza, but that doesn't mean I'm Scum. Look at Yoshiko who were killed this night, she wasn't any more active then I've been and she turned out to be a loyal family member.

Volunteering to get sacrificed doesn't seem very townie to me, it's just the same as giving up which others already pointed out is the most obvious scum tell.

And I don't think it's good team work to kill off your team mates.

Why would Akira say you were the role cop that gave the goon result if you weren't? That role cop seemed to do us a huge favor by exposing the special agents. It makes no sense for him to lie about it.

I don't know, Akira's accusation doesn't make sense to me neither. That role cop that Akira got his information from sure did a good job revealing the second scum team, but it wasn't me.

[Brickdoctor]

A good chance yes, but not correct! I'm not scum, therefore I must've been framed, no matter what the chances are.

That's your word against the Investigator's. (and Norio's) Repeating it over and over doesn't make it any more true.

I admit not being the most active Yakuza, but that doesn't mean I'm Scum. Look at Yoshiko who were killed this night, she wasn't any more active then I've been and she turned out to be a loyal family member.

No one wants to lynch you for being quiet. The reason is that you were investigated as Scum.

[Etzel]

That's your word against the Investigator's. (and Norio's) Repeating it over and over doesn't make it any more true.

I'm very well aware of that it's just my word against the investigator, I have no other defence to rely on. Either the investigator is lying or the results have been tampered with. I've got no proof of either one, so repeating the possibility of this scenario is really my best chance here. I need to make sure you don't forget the less likely option of me being a true vanilla Yakuza.

No one wants to lynch you for being quiet. The reason is that you were investigated as Scum.

Yes I know, I didn't say anything else. I answered to Norio's statement that I lost an argument by admitting to being quite. And of course I did that, I can't not admit to being quite, can I? What I've said, not said and how much I've said is right here for us to check so why deny it?

[Rumble Strike]

As Emi said, you are the best candidate to lynch tonight, not just because of teh Scum reading from the investigator, but also the fact that we can also learn from the result of your alignment if you are in fact a vanilla Yakuza. We would be able to put pressure on other people then and root out the evil within our midst.

[Rick]

What insane investigator thing? I'm sorry, I don't follow you here.

Just another option why the result of the investigation on you could be wrong. Surprising you didn't use it.

I need to make sure you don't forget the less likely option of me being a true vanilla Yakuza.

It indeed looks like it's the less likely option right now, which is why you most likely will be fed to the dragon today.

[Rufus]

Hiroki's defence seems heartfelt, but I don't see how we can ignore the investigator's result. If there is any doubt about the investigation - whether due to framing, or insanity - the only reliably way to test it is to lynch Hiroki. In the unlikely event he does turn out to be true Yakuza, I'd suggest the investigator look carefully at anyone he or she has confirmed.

Likewise, lynching Hiroki should give us information about how trustworthy Akira is.

Why would Akira say you were the role cop that gave the goon result if you weren't? That role cop seemed to do us a huge favor by exposing the special agents. It makes no sense for him to lie about it.

Exposing these agents would be a smart move for scum. It only benefits them - they get to look like true Yakuza, whilst eliminating a possible threat to themselves. Though I too don't understand why Akira would lie about who told him.

[Etzel]

It indeed looks like it's the less likely option right now, which is why you most likely will be fed to the dragon today.

But I like the less likely more then I like the most likely option.

[fhomess]

But I like the less likely more then I like the most likely option.

Lol. I'm sure you do, as would any of us in your shoes! But really, nothing you've said makes it a reasonable approach to do anything other than test the investigator's claim, and Akira's along with it. I wouldn't suspect the investigator to have any incentive to lie about you - you yourself said you weren't all that active - so the investigator only has something to lose. Akira's the same way. The only real hope for you, then, would've been that the investigator got a false result on you, but without someone stepping up to say they have an action that might indicate as such, it doesn't appear that anyone is messing with your result. Naturally, that really only leaves the sanity of the investigator in question, and the only way to test that is to definitively answer the question as to your allegiance with a lynch.

[badboytje88]

You may start voting.

[CMP]

Vote: Hiroki/Etzel

Sorry, that's Vote: Hiroki/Etzel.

[Rumble Strike]

Vote: Hiroki (Etzel)