LEGO® CUUSOO 空想 - Turn your model wishes into reality

[Sir Walter Maugham]

Seems like CDC summed up my thoughts well: Cuusoo is dead to me.

I was dubious of Zelda, but I've dreamed about Lego Zelda sets for as long as I can remember. When I saw it was a project on Cuusoo, I couldn't help but get my hopes up.

It's a huge letdown to wait 7 months for "Oh, yeah that one... It requires too many new mould ." We don't even know for sure if they approached Nintendo, do we?

And I wasn't particularly excited for the MWT, since I never stray far from Castle, (Bionicle too, but it's dead.) but knew it would be a nice set. And I figured it was a shoo-in.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Sir Walter Maugham

[Haltiamieli]

The most disappointing thing for me is that it will be very hard to rally AFOLs to support any project after this. Too much disappointment, skepticism and cynicism. I always felt a little uneasy with MWT's size and vague definition of what exactly would be the thing produced, and I did add my own vote only quite late in the game. But nevertheless it was the one project AFOLs rallied together to push through (after the more unlikely and as unlucky Winchester). It is an important part of growing up to be disappointed at times, but the cycles of Cuusoo are so long and slow that people may give up hope. And most of my favourite projects do need some push if they are to achieve 10k before I die of old age.

The Zelda rejection is certainly clear, but not totally believable. The project only presents 3 minifigures, and I find it very hard to believe that three new minifigures is going to break the bank, especially since they could probably produce all three with existing molds and new printing. All the new swords and shields would require new molds, but how many of them are really central to the project?

I think they could have made the proposed set with one new mold, for Link's hair/hat/ears. But maybe big part of the supporters commented that they just loved all the new swords and accessory designs and it would be awesome to get them, at the same time giving all too low presumed price point?

Edited December 20, 2012 by Haltiamieli

[Aanchir]

I find this yet another disappointing outcome from the CuuSoo venture.

The ideas I really like don't pass review and the kits that pass review, I don't really like. BTTF is fine, but I don't see myself getting it. Everything else they've released so far I could build with spare parts from my existing collection so why bother with a kit?

Perhaps I was unrealistically optimistic when I first heard of CuuSoo. I thought it was going to be an honest crowd-sourcing forum where serious ideas would be given serious consideration for the benefit of both TLG and the LEGO community; to expand product lines, part selection, and give Lego fans whose tastes have been neglected by recent official offerings a chance to be heard. I didn't expect TLG to bend over backwards to act on every suggestion, but frankly I did expect more than this. What's the point of crowd sourcing if you don't actually listen to the crowd? I realize contractual obligations can convolute things, but if TLG were serious about CuuSoo projects, they'd find a way to make things work and not demoralize nearly ever project creator and tens of thousands of project supporters every time a project comes up for review.

I think it's HILARIOUS that the same crowd who was complaining about how long these LEGO Cuusoo projects were in review is now suggesting TLG didn't go to enough lengths to make these projects happen.

TLG is serious about Cuusoo projects, but not to the extent that because a project is popular, they're going to bend over backwards to make it happen. There are probably quite a lot of things "popular" among AFOLS that TLG has rejected time and time again without needing a platform like Cuusoo to bring it to their attention, because those things are simply infeasible.

If LEGO fans are demoralized when only one in four Cuusoo projects to reach review passes, then that's their own fault for thinking of this as some sort of miracle engine and not as a filter through which AFOL ideas can potentially become products if they meet all the qualifications.

They certainly could tell us. All they have to say is that they are contractually prohibited from releasing any sets in this theme for the next few years. They don't have to mention LR, or even 'Western' if they don't want to. Maybe that's what they were trying to do, but their message was unnecessarily brief and vague.

I think Disney would be a bit peeved if TLG were to casually mention having acquired a license for a major western theme, since that would essentially be a sneaky way of getting around that clause in their contract. (What other major Western franchises are on the horizon?)

I think you're probably in the minority on that opinion, at least on this thread! Given all the discussion we're having trying to figure out the rejections, I certainly wouldn't characterize the justifications as 'clear'. I'm not sure the Rifter explanation was any more clear than MWT's; they seem to be saying that they don't feel it would make money for them, or maybe not as much money as BTTF, or that they can only approve one project per review slot, but it's definitely not clear.

The message I got from the Rifter's rejection was "Licensing Issue". Perhaps the creators of EVE Online were charging an inordinate amount for such a license. Whatever the case, what I got from their phrasing was "we and the rightsholders for the property couldn't come to a business agreement."

The Zelda rejection is certainly clear, but not totally believable. The project only presents 3 minifigures, and I find it very hard to believe that three new minifigures is going to break the bank, especially since they could probably produce all three with existing molds and new printing. All the new swords and shields would require new molds, but how many of them are really central to the project? My suspicion here is that they couldn't come to terms with Nintendo (as most of us expected). Perhaps there's some truth to the justification -- maybe Nintendo wanted to require them to produce lots of custom headgear, swords, shields, etc to make the set look authentic and TLG balked at the cost of doing so.

It should not be ignored that the Zelda proposal was made by a customizer whose Zelda parts are perhaps their most popular items. Accepting the project without the parts that really made it so popular would run counter to the reason the project had such appeal in the first place. Also, "three minifigures" worth of specially-painted parts that will probably never be used again is a heavy burden.

If there were licensing issues with the Zelda project, then the Cuusoo team would be rejecting all other Zelda projects currently up, just as they have done with past license-based rejections. So I see no reason to think that TLG isn't being earnest about rejecting a project more or less centered around new molds.

Maybe, but Cuusoo has some big problems: unclear decision criteria, long review times, and thousands of projects to sort through as a supporter. IMHO, it's becoming just a big mess of crappy projects and fanboys. I think at this point it's only effective for isolated, unusual projects that have a highly mobilized fanbase and don't remotely relate to anything else TLG is doing. So Hayabusa, Shinkai, and Minecraft are more the norm; I don't expect to see a lot of projects like BTTF approved. I've pretty much given up checking it, and will probably only look at it if I see an interesting post on EB about a project.

That's your decision. Personally, I see Cuusoo as a mess as well, but it's a mess that has great potential if it can ever get sorted out. It's still in beta for obvious reasons, and the coordination behind the company behind the Cuusoo platform and TLG is probably a huge roadblock to overcome.

If it's any consolation, I NEVER checked Cuusoo regularly (except when the My Little Pony project was up and the subject of great controversy), so perhaps that's part of why I'm not as let down by these results as others. Cuusoo, to me, is still an experiment in crowdsourcing, not something that I've ever been heavily invested in. In other words, I'm not watching because I want to see certain things happen-- I'm watching because I'm interested in simply seeing what happens and how the platform adapts to the many complications that turn up along the way. If it ends up collapsing like BIONICLE, LEGO Universe, and LEGO Design byME before it, then that's a shame, but in the very least the experiment will have been seen through to its end and will have hopefully provided TLG with insights they can later apply in other undertakings.

[Lance]

Just heard the news about the DeLorean, and I have to say, I'm quite excited for it

I wonder what outfits Doc and Marty will have for the set.....

But I am pretty upset that MB's Modular Western Town didn't make it to becoming a set

I would have definatley purchased it if it did become a set....

Edited December 20, 2012 by Lance

[lightningtiger]

On the Zelda front....perhaps it has been given to another toy maker.......Halo plus Warcraft - Mega Bloks and Gears Of War plus Sonic The Hedgehog - Meccano......so Lego might have missed out without any of us knowing.

[Faefrost]

Looking at the next review period I think we can already see the expected outcomes, and its probably going to be 1 for 3.

Curiosity Rover is the easy one. No chance of rejection. Lego has a NASA license already. It was designed by a NASA engineer. It's topical. No new parts, and it works out to an under $50 set.

Thinking With Portals - Probably rejected for same reason as Zelda. New molds and parts needed vs limited expected market.

Sadcrawler - As much as I love this model, there is no way they could make this thing as is. It's just too huge, to detailed and too expensive to ever make into a set. I don't think CuuSoo projects ever really cross over into the mainline themes such as a UCS Star Wars set? Do they? Theres an off chance that they may do something spectacular on the scale of the UCS MF or the Carousel or the Eiffel Tower. But more likely it will be rejected. I don't think Lego will make it's new largest set ever under the CuuSoo banner.

The following review;

Space Troopers - Unless Lego's lawyers have been spooked by Games Workshop in some way, I think it gets made in some form.

Purdue Pete - No chance of actual production.

[Canticleer blues]

@Faefrost: Interesting predictions. Personally my views are very similar to yours, with one exception: I feel that the Curiosity Rover is actually less likely to pass than the Portal Project. Why? Well, the Curiosity Rover landing was only in the news for a very brief period of time; even now public awareness of the event is already fading. It's very likely that by the time the model is produced and sent to shelves- which according to the BttF schedule will be after 2013- the public will have no interest in the model. Curiosity's one saving grace may be that NASA/space fans will still want it, but even then Lego may opt to produce a different model that has more of a guarantee to get its money back first.

As for the chances of the Portal Project? It would probably be more accurate to compare Portal to Minecraft instead of Legends of Zelda. Like Minecraft, Portal is a game that has major support and is recognized by large portions of the internet (which is something that has been taken advantage of for profit by companies like Thinkgeek). Not only that, but the Portal games actually manage to stay in the minds of its target audience through both its memes and the series' reputation for quality. As for the molds, Team Jigsaw actually made the project with the use of limited molds in mind; if you look through the project pictures, you'll see the project only uses 2-3 all-new molds at most. And it's not like Lego is totally afraid of new molds; the pictures for the Delorean feature several new molds for the main character's hair pieces. Coupling all this with the fact that Valve (Portal's parent company) is already supporting the project, it's safe to say that the Portal project has at least a good chance of being produced.

Otherwise, similar thoughts on Space Troopers and Purdue Pete. Space Trooper's biggest hurdle might be Lego's own Galaxy Sqaud theme. Ironically, Cuusoo's long waiting times for reviews might actually help it overcome this; if the review period/acceptance happens later in the year, while Galaxy Squad is on its way out (and this is assuming Galaxy Squad is a one-wave wonder like its predecessor, Alien Conquest), the chances for ST passing the review would likely increase. The Purdue Pete model is likely to not pass if Lego's distribution for Cuusoo is regional/global only. The only way Purdue could pass and be economical for Lego to produce (i.e. for it to have a solid business case) is if Lego could (would?) find a way to distribute the model only at Purdue University, as it has virtually no appeal at any location beyond that.

[Another Brick In The Wall]

I'm devastated the WMT was denied. I don't think I'll bother to vote on Cuusoo again. The whole process, decision-making and criteria is just bogged in bureaucracy.

I'm actually thinking of submitting a Lego Cuusoo project based on Lego Cuusoo -- two accountants named Buttle and Tuttle sitting in a plain ordinary office counting beans.

Seriously though, if being "niche" is a criticism, why don't they just raise the vote threshold again.

Maybe this thread title should be changed to " Cuusoo -- A slim chance to turn your model wishes into reality"

As for the chances of the Portal Project? It would probably be more accurate to compare Portal to Minecraft instead of Legends of Zelda. Like Minecraft, Portal is a game that has major support and is recognized by large portions of the internet (which is something that has been taken advantage of for profit by companies like Thinkgeek).

Portal = No chance.

Zelda has 25 years of history. Portal is barely known outside of the gaming internet community. The molds for Portal will be just as expensive as Zelda (if not more).

Edited December 21, 2012 by Another Brick In The Wall

[Haltiamieli]

Portal = No chance.

Zelda has 25 years of history. Portal is barely known outside of the gaming internet community. The molds for Portal will be just as expensive as Zelda (if not more).

While I too believe that the Portal project has very slim chances to be accepted (better and more widely known than Eve Online, but still quite niche especially when it comes to Lego's consumerbase), I think the new molds won't matter that much: Portal's new molds aren't the centerpiece nor are they counted in dozens. I imagine very few supporters are supporting it because of the new molds, which I suspect was a common reason for Zelda supporters. With enough ingenuity, Portal could probably be realised without any new molds and would still more or less meet the expectations of most of its supporters. That's probably not the case with Zelda.

[Erik Leppen]

Portal = No chance.

Zelda has 25 years of history. Portal is barely known outside of the gaming internet community.

Any idea how huge the gaming internet community is anno 2012? Video games are becoming as mainstream as books and movies, especially at Lego's main target market - children.

[BrickG]

Western Town, I don't understand why it had so many fans.

Westerns are practically dead these days. The appeal is just not there. Kids do not care about "cowboys and indians" these days. I doubt it would have even pass if there wasn't a conflict with the Lone Ranger sets (which I view as a risk potentially equal to that as the mostly failed Prince of Persia sets).

The Western genera is just plain on life support.

I was personally hoping Zelda would win. However, I did expect the sheer amount of unique molds required to stop it from winning. Zelda has a lot more fanfare and toy appeal than EVE and ESPECIALLY a Western. Another problem is that there's no Zelda game coming out for a while. If Zelda ever gets a set it would likely happen closer to a game's release.

BttF is a good set that I might buy. My second choice. It does have appeal. I don't understand the franchise haters. I buy lego FOR the franchises. Superheros and Ninja Turtles are my current favorites. The only non-franchise sets I buy are Castle which is kind of dead right now (but there's always LotR ;D).

Franchises sell. They attract.

But again, I cannot emphasize this enough. Whatever your opinions... Westerns are just not popular these days. The only reason they're doing a western with the Lone Ranger is because it's a franchise and if the movie does well it could spell well for them too (basically a gamble).

And Portal has a HUGE chance. Probably bigger than Zelda. You don't really need a lot of new molds. You can make a good portal set with existing parts. In fact I can't think of any parts that would 100% have to be unique. Unique prints is all that's needed.

Edited December 21, 2012 by BrickG

[lightningtiger]

I too have that gut feeling about the Curiosity Rover getting the nod next.....it seems to look similar to other Cuusoo projects that got the nod.

[Another Brick In The Wall]

And Portal has a HUGE chance. Probably bigger than Zelda. You don't really need a lot of new molds. You can make a good portal set with existing parts. In fact I can't think of any parts that would 100% have to be unique. Unique prints is all that's needed.

New molds needed for:

1. Companion Cube

2. Turrets

3. Whalley

4. Chell's gun.

5. Possibly some parts of GLADOS.

The bigger issue is that Valve don't like others making money off their ips where they're not making > 75 per cent of it..

I'm well aware of Portal's appeal but bet you more people played Eve Online this year, than they did Portal.

[def]

Westerns are practically dead these days. The appeal is just not there. Kids do not care about "cowboys and indians" these days. I doubt it would have even pass if there wasn't a conflict with the Lone Ranger sets (which I view as a risk potentially equal to that as the mostly failed Prince of Persia sets).

The Western genera is just plain on life support.

The Cuusoo sets seem aimed at adults, or at least teens. The Japanese sets had zero kid appeal, except to oddballs, and minecraft, well, I don't know who plays it, but I'd bet they're over 14.

On top of that, Back to the Future, while a property, has been sleeping for about 20 years. The people that voted for it were likely in their 20s and 30s. I wonder how many Cuusoo voters are under 18.

The Western town is appealing to the same adults who are buying the modular town series. Personally, I have little interest in town halls, but I bought one, because it was beautifully designed. I think the same thing can be said for the Western modular series.

[just2good]

Purdue Pete - No chance of actual production.

I think it has a chance, but it will probably NOT take up the Cuusoo Quarterly set space and only be available at Purdue University or on its website.

[Another Brick In The Wall]

The Western town is appealing to the same adults who are buying the modular town series. Personally, I have little interest in town halls, but I bought one, because it was beautifully designed. I think the same thing can be said for the Western modular series.

Very well said.

[IAmWillGibson]

The only hope for CUUSOO is in licensing. Everything made so far [sure, only 4 projects] was licensed. Essentially, anything suggested on the site is simple to create on your own if you wanted to. But the appeal of a release from a boutique line like this is the licensed aspect. You're not getting "a grey car." You're getting "the BTTF Time Machine" [not DeLorean, mind you]. With that name on the box. You weren't getting "Random collection of 1x1 plates," you were getting "Minecraft." So Western Town just didn't have that extra oomph. That thing that makes you go "Oh, they made this? Out of LEGO?" [Which, I hafta say, is why I think Space Marines Troopers won't get approved.]

Which is why I'm upset by them apparently sticking so hard to the "We're a kid's toy" angle, because it conflicts with what CUUSOO could be, which is the non-kid-focussed arm of LEGO. The place where stuff you never thought LEGO would make would get made.

In other news, how did my project lose a supporter? Is that possible? All I wanted was to get to 200, and that's sure as hell not gonna happen now.

[Aanchir]

The only hope for CUUSOO is in licensing. Everything made so far [sure, only 4 projects] was licensed. Essentially, anything suggested on the site is simple to create on your own if you wanted to. But the appeal of a release from a boutique line like this is the licensed aspect. You're not getting "a grey car." You're getting "the BTTF Time Machine" [not DeLorean, mind you]. With that name on the box. You weren't getting "Random collection of 1x1 plates," you were getting "Minecraft." So Western Town just didn't have that extra oomph. That thing that makes you go "Oh, they made this? Out of LEGO?" [Which, I hafta say, is why I think Space Marines Troopers won't get approved.]

Which is why I'm upset by them apparently sticking so hard to the "We're a kid's toy" angle, because it conflicts with what CUUSOO could be, which is the non-kid-focussed arm of LEGO. The place where stuff you never thought LEGO would make would get made.

In other news, how did my project lose a supporter? Is that possible? All I wanted was to get to 200, and that's sure as hell not gonna happen now.

At least some people have gotten outraged at Cuusoo over these latest review results and deleted their accounts. Perhaps supporters whose accounts have been deleted are no longer part of the support total?

As for why TLG sticks to the "We're a kids' toy" angle, it's about brand image. Even connecting their brand with something parents and "moral guardians" will distrust will reflect badly on the company, regardless of who those products are aimed at. Just look at the controversy that erupted over LEGO Friends. Sure, girl-oriented toys are nothing new, but in the public eye they have a certain amount of prestige, and a controversial product can tarnish that no matter who it's aimed at.

In other words, LEGO is perceived as a wholesome, constructive kids' toy, which is a big part of why they are so successful. And it's expecting too much of the general public to think that they can release something not aimed at kids and the public will understand. Just like violent video games are blamed for "corrupting" youth even though they're typically aimed at adults, controversial LEGO sets aimed at adults will be still be thought of as kids' toys. And that could be very bad for the company's brand image.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Aanchir

[ShaydDeGrai]

At least some people have gotten outraged at Cuusoo over these latest review results and deleted their accounts. Perhaps supporters whose accounts have been deleted are no longer part of the support total?

This would be my guess as well. I lost 1 support from each of three related projects which makes me think that it was one person/account that had gone away (I'd previously noted that when someone supported one of these items, they also (frequently) supported the other two).

As for why TLG sticks to the "We're a kids' toy" angle, it's about brand image. Even connecting their brand with something parents and "moral guardians" will distrust will reflect badly on the company, regardless of who those products are aimed at. (...snip...)

In this I entirely agree. There may be kits here and there with much greater adult appeal (particularly in Architecture and Trains) but bottom line is that if you expect TLG to put their reputation on the line marketing something it has to be (at least moderately) kid safe. Buried on the CUUSOO website, they reiterate their stance on no religion, no drug, no modern depictions of war, etc. so I don't expect things like Seal Team Six getting Bin Laden, a Nazi concentration camp, or a protester vs. a Tank at Tianenmen Square (all Lego models I've seen but don't have URLs for at the moment) to show up on CUUSOO any time soon. And even though I really liked the design of the Winchester and Serenity, I can't take issue with TLG not wanting to put parents of six-year-olds in the position of explaining why Johnny can't watch Shawn of the Dead or explain what, exactly, a "companion" does for her "clients" or why Reavers decorate the outside of their ships with the remains of their victims. No one is saying that AFOLs can't make their own adult themed MOCs, they just shouldn't expect TLG to market them under the LEGO brand.

What I do take issue with is CUUSOO as a separate product line. By releasing things under a CUUSOO banner, I think they back themselves into a corner in terms of the scale, IP and new mould requirements that might actually pass review. As a marketing device, this is understandable, TLG benefits by getting brand recognition and Internet chatter from the _process_ of designers reaching/tweeting/blogging/begging for 10,000 votes more so than they do from actually releasing a kit. As an actual crowd-sourcing mechanism, though, it falls flat. Rule #1 of effective crowd sourcing is that it is a public brainstorming session where at least some of the people in the crowd can be considered to be outside experts with superior knowledge/creativity to in-house talent. In practice this means that, (if you're serious about crowd-sourcing as a real product development tool) something like the Modular Western Town can never be in conflict with an existing license such as LR; it means that the designer of the modular western town, and the feedback that design generated, should be consulted on the design of LR sets _within_ the license so that the LR kits have greater appeal to the crowd beyond just the Lone Ranger tie-in. Likewise successful Star Wars or LOTR designs shouldn't be CUUSOO additions to those lines, but rather new ideas/directions for those lines vetted/referred by the CUUSOO process.

There will always be situations where a new design proposal will exceed existing themes and licenses, but again, the question shouldn't be can CUUSOO get a license for X, it should be "is this big enough to justify a LEGO exclusive? Is this big enough to be a new LEGO Theme?" CUUSOO should be a suggestion box, moderator and gatekeeper for other working groups within TLG, not a wide distribution "Designed ByME" channel. I think there's a lot of wasted energy and unrealistic expectations on one-off licensed models that, if approved at all, will get a tiny production run and end up as a footnote in Gary Istok's next DVD.

Other than brand exposure, I just don't know what TLG actually expects to get from CUUSOO as it is currently structured, we've yet to see something pass muster that really _should be_ just another kit under an existing theme, and, true or not, it _feels_ like they are perfectly happy to keep it that way.

I guess the next actual test where we'll learn more about their internal process will be the UCS Sandcrawler. It's clearly Star Wars, not CUUSOO. Will it actually go through as the biggest CUUSOO set ever offered? Will it get scaled down slightly to put it on par with the UCS Millenium Falcon and released as a _regular_ Star Wars Theme set? Will the Star Wars team release their own UCS Sandcrawler and claim it was planned all along and they never knew about the one on CUUSOO? Will it get scaled down to the point where it can be marketed as a CUUSOO stocking stuffer (missing the entire point of it being an UCS model)? Will it get rejected because the CUUSOO and LSW are two different working groups and LSW holds the keys to the kingdom? I guess only time will tell.

It's just hard to take CUUSOO seriously when so much recent evidence suggests that they aren't taking US seriously.

[Meatman]

Any idea how huge the gaming internet community is anno 2012? Video games are becoming as mainstream as books and movies, especially at Lego's main target market - children.

Yes, but "Zelda" is a household name. My 65 year old father even knows what Zelda is primarily about as do my 2 young boys.

So it is obvious that Cuusoo needs to come right out and say please "Do not offer up any projects or ideas that require new molds"

So they might as well go through all of the projects that are requiring new or altered parts and eliminating those projects now.

[Erik Leppen]

it is obvious that Cuusoo needs to come right out and say please "Do not offer up any projects or ideas that require new molds"

With that I can only agree. (Although I do not see how it is related to my quote, but OK).

Also, well said ShaydDeGrai, I mostly agree and don't have a lot to add. I expect the Sandcrawler to be rejected, because no way are they going to take the risk with a 7,000 piece model, and if they downsize it too much, people will complain, which is bad publicity.

Rule #1 of effective crowd sourcing is that it is a public brainstorming session where at least some of the people in the crowd can be considered to be outside experts with superior knowledge/creativity to in-house talent. In practice this means that something like the Modular Western Town can never be in conflict with an existing license such as LR; it means that the designer of the modular western town, and the feedback that design generated, should be consulted on the design of LR sets _within_ the license

Problem: we don't know whether this is actually the case. It might very well be, yet from marketing perspective it could be unwise to say that.

[Meatman]

With that I can only agree. (Although I do not see how it is related to my quote, but OK).

Also, well said ShaydDeGrai, I mostly agree and don't have a lot to add. I expect the Sandcrawler to be rejected, because no way are they going to take the risk with a 7,000 piece model, and if they downsize it too much, people will complain, which is bad publicity.

Problem: we don't know whether this is actually the case. It might very well be, yet from marketing perspective it could be unwise to say that.

Sorry Erik, I was mostly just talking about the 2 video games in comparison. I didn't mean to reference the other comments towards you at all. I should have worded them differently.

Getting back to the Zelda project.

I backed the Zelda project basically on the theme and not new molds as I would suspect everyone else did as well.

[NiceMarmot]

The Cuusoo sets seem aimed at adults, or at least teens. The Japanese sets had zero kid appeal, except to oddballs, and minecraft, well, I don't know who plays it, but I'd bet they're over 14.

On top of that, Back to the Future, while a property, has been sleeping for about 20 years. The people that voted for it were likely in their 20s and 30s. I wonder how many Cuusoo voters are under 18.

The Western town is appealing to the same adults who are buying the modular town series. Personally, I have little interest in town halls, but I bought one, because it was beautifully designed. I think the same thing can be said for the Western modular series.

Well said. Exactly my thoughts on this too. I think TLG knows kids fairly well, and has that side of the business down. Part of Cuusoo's purpose is to help them expand the AFOL market and identify new themes/products for that market.

I think Disney would be a bit peeved if TLG were to casually mention having acquired a license for a major western theme, since that would essentially be a sneaky way of getting around that clause in their contract. (What other major Western franchises are on the horizon?)

Knowing Disney, they probably would be peeved. But I don't think it would reveal anything to the general public that isn't already known, especially since the general public isn't really following either Cuusoo or the LEGO-Lone Ranger rumors. But Disney is definitely a long-term valued partner of TLG, so they probably decided to play it ultra-safe on this one. Still, I think the communication was terse, vague, and generally lousy. I would have tried for something more like: "We love this project, and ordinarily it would be serious contender for approval. However, at this time, it conflicts with an ongoing theme. We will revisit the project in the future if we no longer have a conflicting theme, or if it can somehow be integrated into that theme. In addition, if that current theme is extended, we will investigate the possibility of adding larger, modular buildings to it." That doesn't commit them to anything, but at least lets the project creator and supporters know that they put together a great project.

The message I got from the Rifter's rejection was "Licensing Issue". Perhaps the creators of EVE Online were charging an inordinate amount for such a license. Whatever the case, what I got from their phrasing was "we and the rightsholders for the property couldn't come to a business agreement."

I hadn't thought of that. Good thinking. You might be right about that one. However it would be nice to know if the concern was that it was not as financially viable as BTTF -- as far as I know, that's not a concern for the review and it would be nice to know if the projects in review are judged against each other or completely independently.

It should not be ignored that the Zelda proposal was made by a customizer whose Zelda parts are perhaps their most popular items. Accepting the project without the parts that really made it so popular would run counter to the reason the project had such appeal in the first place. Also, "three minifigures" worth of specially-painted parts that will probably never be used again is a heavy burden.

Didn't know that about Zelda. You're probably right, and that would explain the problem with new molds. However, I think that three minifigs of printing is not a big deal for TLG -- believe I read somewhere that the new printing equipment in the China factory has much lower setup and operating costs.

That's your decision. Personally, I see Cuusoo as a mess as well, but it's a mess that has great potential if it can ever get sorted out. It's still in beta for obvious reasons, and the coordination behind the company behind the Cuusoo platform and TLG is probably a huge roadblock to overcome.

Definitely has potential. I don't see it getting sorted out in the short term, but if they have the patience to stick with it, they could figure it out eventually. I get the feeling that Cuusoo was a project that wasn't completely thought out ahead of time, and TLG is figuring it out as they go along. Sort of a: "Hey! Wouldn't it be neat if we did this!" and then it got approved and built before they had really figured out the all the business processes and policies to go along with it. I hope they stick with it and make it work, but it seems that TLG doesn't have a great track record of sticking with projects that don't immediately succeed.

Other than brand exposure, I just don't know what TLG actually expects to get from CUUSOO as it is currently structured, we've yet to see something pass muster that really _should be_ just another kit under an existing theme, and, true or not, it _feels_ like they are perfectly happy to keep it that way.

I agree -- I think TLG is still trying to figure out what it wants Cuusoo to be, and how to make it work. It's totally an experiment and they're figuring it out as they go along. I just wish they communicated that a bit better to the fans. I think a lot of people are expecting a much more smooth and polished operation, and are getting disappointed.

[BrickG]

New molds needed for:

1. Companion Cube

2. Turrets

3. Whalley

4. Chell's gun.

5. Possibly some parts of GLADOS.

The bigger issue is that Valve don't like others making money off their ips where they're not making > 75 per cent of it..

I'm well aware of Portal's appeal but bet you more people played Eve Online this year, than they did Portal.

I disagree. None of those need unique stuff except maybe the portal gun. I've seen some fantastic minifigure scale (more or less) lego turrets, GLADOS, etc. The Companion Cube can literally be a Lego cube with print on it. It would be cooler to have unique pieces but for portal, it's mostly unnecessary.

The Cuusoo sets seem aimed at adults, or at least teens. The Japanese sets had zero kid appeal, except to oddballs, and minecraft, well, I don't know who plays it, but I'd bet they're over 14.

On top of that, Back to the Future, while a property, has been sleeping for about 20 years. The people that voted for it were likely in their 20s and 30s. I wonder how many Cuusoo voters are under 18.

The Western town is appealing to the same adults who are buying the modular town series. Personally, I have little interest in town halls, but I bought one, because it was beautifully designed. I think the same thing can be said for the Western modular series.

I think Cuusoo has been doing a major shift in their target audience. It's increasingly for everybody. Minecraft sold well at a much younger average age (and sold significantly better than the rest of the Cuusoo projects) so I see them continuing to do the same thing, aiming at lower and lower ages. I think BttF will sell decently with young people too as it's one of those trilogies that sticks around like Star Wars but to a lesser extent.

Also, you can't discount the adults that think Westerns are boring. Honestly, this isn't a new thing. I'm 27 and I can safely say the vast majority of people my age (that don't live in Texas or something ;p) also don't care about Westerns. Westerns have been practically dead for a long while now. So any western set won't be aiming at adults, they'll be aiming at really, really old adults ;p.

Edited December 21, 2012 by BrickG

[Faefrost]

What I do take issue with is CUUSOO as a separate product line. By releasing things under a CUUSOO banner, I think they back themselves into a corner in terms of the scale, IP and new mould requirements that might actually pass review. As a marketing device, this is understandable, TLG benefits by getting brand recognition and Internet chatter from the _process_ of designers reaching/tweeting/blogging/begging for 10,000 votes more so than they do from actually releasing a kit. As an actual crowd-sourcing mechanism, though, it falls flat. Rule #1 of effective crowd sourcing is that it is a public brainstorming session where at least some of the people in the crowd can be considered to be outside experts with superior knowledge/creativity to in-house talent. In practice this means that, (if you're serious about crowd-sourcing as a real product development tool) something like the Modular Western Town can never be in conflict with an existing license such as LR; it means that the designer of the modular western town, and the feedback that design generated, should be consulted on the design of LR sets _within_ the license so that the LR kits have greater appeal to the crowd beyond just the Lone Ranger tie-in. Likewise successful Star Wars or LOTR designs shouldn't be CUUSOO additions to those lines, but rather new ideas/directions for those lines vetted/referred by the CUUSOO process.

There will always be situations where a new design proposal will exceed existing themes and licenses, but again, the question shouldn't be can CUUSOO get a license for X, it should be "is this big enough to justify a LEGO exclusive? Is this big enough to be a new LEGO Theme?" CUUSOO should be a suggestion box, moderator and gatekeeper for other working groups within TLG, not a wide distribution "Designed ByME" channel. I think there's a lot of wasted energy and unrealistic expectations on one-off licensed models that, if approved at all, will get a tiny production run and end up as a footnote in Gary Istok's next DVD.

Other than brand exposure, I just don't know what TLG actually expects to get from CUUSOO as it is currently structured, we've yet to see something pass muster that really _should be_ just another kit under an existing theme, and, true or not, it _feels_ like they are perfectly happy to keep it that way.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. But this is perhaps the most salient point you made. And the one TLG really needs to take away from all of this. CuuSoo will not work ever if it remains walled in the way it is.

The problem is do the licenses and contracts allow it to be otherwise? As you said the Sandcrawler will be a huge test. But I can't help wondering if there aren't far more problems there than simply the massive scale of the kit. As a long time SciFi modeler I can tell you that there are many many legendary stories involving Lucasfilms. And it has only gotten worse since Disney took over. They rabidly protect their IP. Now the Sandcrawler may run into issues, not simply because of the SW license or its size. The problem is it is a highly accurate model of a Lucas designed piece of IP. Will they take issue with design royalties being paid to a third party non Lucas or ILM individual for a representation of a Lucas IP design? They may feel they need to contest that in order to maintain their IP rights? See how quickly something like this can get very complex and very messy?

Knowing Disney, they probably would be peeved. But I don't think it would reveal anything to the general public that isn't already known, especially since the general public isn't really following either Cuusoo or the LEGO-Lone Ranger rumors. But Disney is definitely a long-term valued partner of TLG, so they probably decided to play it ultra-safe on this one. Still, I think the communication was terse, vague, and generally lousy. I would have tried for something more like: "We love this project, and ordinarily it would be serious contender for approval. However, at this time, it conflicts with an ongoing theme. We will revisit the project in the future if we no longer have a conflicting theme, or if it can somehow be integrated into that theme. In addition, if that current theme is extended, we will investigate the possibility of adding larger, modular buildings to it." That doesn't commit them to anything, but at least lets the project creator and supporters know that they put together a great project.

The problem is that TLG cannot phrase their response in any way that either puts the onus for the rejection on the LR licensor (Disney) or technically reveals details about an unrevealed license. (Bet Disney is just thrilled by the catalog pics floating around.) Lego was between a rock and a hard place on this one. Chances are the Disney license would not allow them to do any other Western sets, but at the same time allowed them to revitalize the Western line as LR (just as they did with PotC.) it sucks for those that would really love that Western Town, but ultimately I am sure that TLG did not have any actual choice on this one.