Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[Scorpiox]

Alexander, He hasn't had much character development, and I think that you ought to work on your english, but I think your cheerful elf is coming along nicely.

I think you ought to remember that English isn't Wedge's native language, and also that it's nothing the hell to do with you.

[Chromeknight]

Quest 77

Ibut the fact that CromeKnight had to take over one of the NPC's at the end was really, well... .

Nerwen, I can't really say much about her, save that she was one of the most intelligent and thoughtful characters in the group, well played CromeKnight!

Yeah. My taking Calaryl was my idea. I asked Doc and he oked it. It was a way of getting Throlar some interaction without any of the PCs having to do it.

What you did with the fainting thing was showboating, scene stealing. You should actually be grateful Doc was busy. You could have found yourself in a much worse situation than an elvish wine cellar.

As for others' language skills, my screen name is Chromeknight. Small detail, but it makes you look silly critiquing others while getting stuff wrong yourself.

Nerwen was one of Throlar's most consistent supporters in this quest. At least I thought so. If you have a different view of that, it'd be interesting to hear, but some acknowledgment of that might gave given you something to say about her and Throlar.

[Brickdoctor]

Incidentally, in my poking about wanting to get on other Quests, I wasn't trying to take a dig at you; I was trying to provoke a little more activity from my fellow players, because of said "dead spaces". Because I knew it would take two days for a response to any major action, I knew it was important for the party to get all our actions in as quickly as possible--I know that we'd have gotten through a lot quicker if everyone had been more active, myself included at times.

It doesn't matter who you were specifically addressing; you were still saying that you wanted to finish the current quest in order to go on someone else's quest.

However, on that note, I did specifically ask before we started if we would be back in time for Byblos/the Marketplace Quest. While I recognize our not getting back was due to circumstances outside your control, I must confess that I felt a little betrayed that that expectation wasn't met. I'm also a bit miffed that, in spite of teased Shadeaux rep and helping out a Shadeaux-aligned character, it never materialized--especially with the Quest reward putting me that much closer to 30.

It's impossible for me to predict how long a quest will take with as much open-world freedom as this one, and I said that multiple times. You did help a Shadeaux NPC, but you didn't devote your entire effort to him. I said it would be easy to find, and it was.

Another thing that made the delays even worse was the lack of knowledge of where we were within the Quest. We did not have a very clear goal, which made it seem several times like we were "near the end" and almost to the point of quickly "wrapping things up", when in reality we still had months (plural) to go. Not knowing where we stood made things all the more frustrating, especially when Throlar kept doing things that reversed our progress and made things take even longer.

[...]

Your Quests (4, 17, 31) were awesome not just because they were free-form--they were awesome because everything was very clearly defined. What you could and couldn't do weren't spelled out (though the results were made clear once you tried), but what you should and shouldn't do (along with what you needed to do) were explicit. You don't get a map, but you do get a compass and a heading, and a definite destination. In 77, we got none of the above. Flailing helplessly at first works for short periods of time--this lasted the whole Quest, and the fun wore off quickly. It was too much like real life--no destination in sight, just endless days of directionless muddling.

I definitely remember your saying at one point in the middle of 31 that you had previously felt like you didn't know what you were supposed to be doing in that quest. In any case, point taken; I'll try to go for a better balance of freedom and railroading next time.

And even if it's not the best for the storyline, as far as I'm concerned, if the progression of events and decisions felt more like real life, I'm pleased with myself for being able to do that.

Additionally, there were other concerns to deal with. Frankly, CAT killed 77--we were all in it, we were all exhausted by it, and yet we kept struggling through in spite of it. I was ready for some serious Hall downtime at the end of that game, and it seems like you could have used some time off as well--we (or at least I) could practically see you and your characters getting more and more tired from that point on.

I suppose. But we all made the choice to sign up for that, so it doesn't seem right to use that as an excuse, neither for my activity nor for yours.

But I feel like I'm being too negative on you--most of it's my own fault. A lot of this is that I was a poor fit for your Quest, and deep down I knew it. Despite trying a lot of things, I never managed to get it right. I was either too active or not active enough, too vocal or too quiet, too stat-based or too-roleplaying-based. I was impatient and frustrating, and I did an absolutely abysmal job of communicating my concerns to you before it was too late. I can't help but feel this Quest would have gone a lot better without me on it, and for that I apologize. Quite frankly, I should not have signed up--it was selfish of me, and I took a spot that most likely could have been better filled by a less ungrateful player. I'm sorry.

No, I think impatience was justifiable in this case, and I don't pretend to claim that a large part of the fault was mine. I just feel like in some major ways some of you handled your response to the quest poorly.

[Pyrovisionary]

Personally, I wish I had been on 77. The sets were amazing, the NPCs were interesting. The mechanics well done. And to be honest, it's bleeding bad etiquette to complain that you didn't get onto another quest. But, sadly, not entirely unexpected. The same goes for only wanting certain players on one's quest (#40 being the exception). Also, Throlar reminds me of Sarge in 47. Off the leash with only a few annoyed heroes keeping him from doing badly. Still, I'm looking forward to seeing Throlar mature as a character in upcoming quests.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Pyrovisionary

[Flare]

#87 was a pretty awesome quest Sandy, very nicely done!

[Kintobor]

Alright, I gotta get this off my chest, now that 87 is done. Watching it, I didn't like it. I felt it was flawed heavily.

You had a great concept: items were stolen from the market place, and the party needs to find the culprit. However, I didn't care for the execution of the concept. The whole look and find aspect didn't cut it for me. Puzzles shouldn't give out experience, since players need to be on at the same time in order to be given experience. Otherwise, what appears to be them not participating is in fact them being in a different time zone. I also didn't care entirely for the conclusion. I wish you indicated early on that Watsap's hat had extra room in it. It would have made an excellent Chekov's Gun. Instead, it came out of left field. That and the huge scene of the market immediately felt as if it was using player knowledge versus character knowledge. The ex-heroes should have been suspects as well, but because the players knew their previous occupation, they were immediately ruled out.

That being said, the character, sets, and cameos were great! I really love Hoples, and I wish I had the parts to build him, but alas, i don't. It was great to see Lilith and Serevan again, and I did enjoy the sets you built. I just wish there was an actual mystery going on instead of a bunch of Look and Find puzzles and a rather confusing ending. I am however curious to see where the side quest goes.

The only reason I'm being harsh is because I felt this could have been a great mystery quest, instead of what it turned out to be. I'd love to hear your thoughts, Sandy, and of course, like Zepher, I want to see you do your best.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Kintobor

[Dragonfire]

87

A great quest Sandy! I thoroughly enjoyed taking part in it. The sets were fantastic- it was pretty cool to see all the different stalls combined into one large Marketplace. The puzzles were challenging enough- especially Elphaba's puzzle with the gems- and also fun to solve. The NPCs were brilliant, as usual. Watsap was funny to interact with and I never suspected he was the culprit until he reacted rather violently to Thalion's investigation. Warlock was also an unique and well-thought-out character. It was also nice to hear more about the stallholders- Avalanche has made an enemy of Anwyl, I fear! The four animal-people were delightfully odd, especially Ginger- I'm not sure whether his request to be eaten will ever be fulfilled! It didn't go on for too long, and was quite substantial. I only have one minor quibble, and that is the Baltarok issue. If I'd known that the quest wouldn't finish on time, I would never have signed up for it. Still, I know it wasn't your fault and you tried your best. Overall a really wholesome- albeit rather strange- quest!

The Other Heroes

Monk Pretzel- Avalanche and Pretzel did not get on at all well! Avalanche especially dislikes racists and hypocrites (in his opinion, Pretzel is both!) and so he reacted angrily to certain comments Pretzel made (I don't think he'll ever forgive Pretzel for the comment about blue monkeys and a shave ). However, as the quest progressed, they both seemed to realise that working as a team was absolutely necessary if the quest was to be solved and they put their animosity behind them. At the end of the quest, some of that returned, but Avalanche does like the Monk a lot more than he did at the beginning of the quest.

Thalion- Avalanche was impressed during the quest by Thalion's skills at solving the puzzles and 'scanning' the suspects using his Cloak. Thalion also lit the spark that led Avalanche and the others to expose Watsap. Although, due to this quest being more about solving puzzles than heroes getting to know each other, Avalanche didn't really get to know Thalion well. But he counts him as an acquaintance and would enjoy questing with him again.

Stigveladi- Similar to Thalion- Avalanche didn't really get to know her all that well. Nevertheless, he found her a valuable asset to solving the final puzzle and contributing to the case

against Watsap. Like Thalion, he would enjoy questing with her again.

Sorrow- Avalanche supported Sorrow against Pretzel's racist comments at the beginning of the quest, arguing that undead are people too and not just mindless zombies. However, he was rather uneasy around Sorrow for the most part of the quest- Avalanche has never met an undead before and although he initially wasn't that sure, meeting Sorrow has improved Avalanche's view on the undead.

Heckz- Avalanche was pleased to see a familiar face when he embarked upon the quest. Having met Heckz before boosted Avalanche's confidence and made him feel less shy or embarrassed at being a newbie. The two heroes' scrap around the middle of the quest was funny to write and read- Heckz really needs to learn some tact and modesty! Nevertheless, Avalanche enjoyed questing with Heckz (I'm getting a bit repetitive now, aren't I )

Avalanche- Yes, I'm reviewing myself too. I felt that 87, while at first seeming rather strange and not really having an impact on Avalanche, turned out to be just as important as 83 in his character development. Avalanche was the first to voice his growing suspicions about Watsap, and this led the other heroes to voice theirs as well. Leading the exposion of Watsap gave Avalanche more self-confidence and made him realise that even a newbie can be key to a quest's success. He was also extremely worried that Watsap would be, in fact, innocent and that the quest would fail because of him. If he had been wrong about the kobold, he would have blamed himself and I would be writing a very different review. Avalanche ended this quest on a positive note and is soon to embark upon the Fields of Glory, marking another milestone in his Heroica career.

Just one question, Sandy- did the six suspects have anything to do with the crime- did they steal the objects and give them to Watsap? Was Sir Loin mistaken or telling the truth? I'm still puzzled...

Thanks for a brilliant quest!

[PsyKater]

I want to write a lot about Q87 but Kintobor and Dragonfire summed everything up. And i have - just like in the quest - not enough time to write it up.

Two things to add:

I missed more convincing trails or hints. Or contradictions. There was no evidence after all. And I was totally sure that we were totally wrong.

Playing Heroica only on mobile phone with not much time is not satisfying at all. I had no time to look at the pictures thoroughly. I missed a lot of dialogues while reading too fast.

What I found really good was the lack of battles. Just the right thing after several months on the Fields.

Thanks for having me. I literally cheered while reading "the quest was succesful".

[Endgame]

I'm a bit divided on 87, really.

First off: In terms of set building, this quest was by far your best, in my opinion. every picture and set was superb, and the character designs were great too - you are one of my favorite builders on here, Sandy.

NPC interaction was stellar too, although we didn't get too spend too much time with them. The suspects in the marketplace after we cleared all of the zany and really fun to watch - flat, but definitely entertaining. Bunnina was my favorite out of the bunch. The cameos were good as well - thanks for including Lillith in the quest, I really appreciate it.

Beyond the presentation, however, the quest struck me as a bit flawed. It didn't really feel like we were solving a mystery; It felt more along the lines of five rounds of I Spy, and suddenly the culprit reveals himself. The quest almost seemed arbitrary, in a way... I almost feel as if we should've been supplied with the information we spent the whole quest getting, and simply go off it from there. Instead, it felt like the quest was almost entirely just five games of I Spy; because in a way, it pretty much was. There was not really any evidence, contradictions, textimony was minimal, investigation was confined to photos we couldn't really interact with. There was pretty much no conflict and nothing to spur all that much RP... I like Sorrow to react to the quest's trials around him, and there really wasn't that much in general.

It seemed to rely too much on real-time events as well... The quest was literally lootless, so if you wanted to get anything out of it beyond the Expert Class, you had to basically pounce on the updates.

Overall, Sandy, I enjoyed the presentation immensely, but it didn't really feel like a mystery. I'm glad you took me along, but I feel this quest was a step lower from the great ones you usually deliver.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Endgame

[PsyKater]

The access to the Artisan class makes it for me. We could have sit there doing nothing as long as I get this access. I really wanted it. that's why I tried harder at the end in the fear of failing the quest. I never had so much tension while being on a quest.

[Endgame]

The access to the Artisan class makes it for me. We could have sit there doing nothing as long as I get this access. I really wanted it. that's why I tried harder at the end in the fear of failing the quest. I never had so much tension while being on a quest.

We must have differing view points then, because I never really felt any tension at all. Honestly, to sum it up, I felt as if the quest was meatless, basically. A great set-up for a mystery... But there never really was a mystery. After determining what was even stolen (Phase 1 of any investigation, basically) Watsap exposed himself. And with no other vaguely reasonable suspects, who else would we accuse, realistically?

Edited December 3, 2013 by Endgame

[Dragonfire]

If it hadn't been for Thalion scanning him, we never would've suspected Watsap...

[Endgame]

If it hadn't been for Thalion scanning him, we never would've suspected Watsap...

I'm more referring to the fact that he attempted to get us to arrest Hoples due to the cherry connection, which I'm guessing was scripted - otherwise the quest really wouldn't have moved anywhere.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Endgame

[Palathadric]

Well, I won't comment any more in-depth due to the quest not yet being over for me, but I do have to say that I'm elated to have completed it successfully. I really wanted to tell the Town Watch members to just chill with their croissants and maybe toss them a pretzel each while we finished the case, but I'm glad we got it right in the end.

[Kintobor]

I'm more referring to the fact that he attempted to get us to arrest Hoples due to the cherry connection, which I'm guessing was scripted - otherwise the quest really wouldn't have moved anywhere.

I feel the same way. Nothing was set up. If we'd seen Hoples munching on a pastry, and learning the pastry had cherry filling after the "I Spy" phase, I'd believe the cherry connection a bit more. But instead, just like Watsap's reveal, nothing was set up. It felt like it came out of left field.

[Cutcobra]

Awesome quest Sandy! I really liked it, but as Kintobor said, I don't think the "Heroes who help solve puzzle get experience." is a good addition to the quest.

And I'm actually surprised Pretzel ate a piece of a demon.

[Dragonfire]

I'm more referring to the fact that he attempted to get us to arrest Hoples due to the cherry connection, which I'm guessing was scripted - otherwise the quest really wouldn't have moved anywhere.

But he wouldn't have done that had I not accused him. And I wouldn't have accused him had he not attacked Thalion...

[Zepher]

Sandy!

I think this was a highly inventive quest! The puzzles were awesome, and it was very unique to see a completely battle-less quest. I agree story structure wise a few more dropped hints in the beginning could have gone a long way (like Kint said, hat and cherries) and I also agree that it wasn't much of a mystery (there were no real suspects), but I don't really care that it wasn't much of a mystery. It was a puzzle quest, and as a puzzle quest, you greatly succeeded.

[Sandy]

Thanks for all of your honest feedback! It is always appreciated.

It is true that I tried something new with this quest (no battles, just puzzles), and it didn't quite go as I planned. I had to hammer in the conclusion since none of the players really grabbed the clue about the cherries being present in every scene until I underlined it, and because of that the options for the actual culprit got severely limited. But the quest was supposed to be light-hearted and zany from the get-go, so I didn't really mind that there wasn't an elaborate "mystery" behind it after all.

I did plan for an optional battle against Watsap, the AIUPIIUP and the rest of the suspects, but things never really got that far. If the party would have figured out the culprit before the lieutenants came in, then the battle could have possibly happened.

But I'm glad the players had fun with the little puzzles, even though I felt they were a bit on the easy side.As a QM I needed a break from the battle-heavy quests as well. Again, thanks for playing, guys!

That and the huge scene of the market immediately felt as if it was using player knowledge versus character knowledge. The ex-heroes should have been suspects as well, but because the players knew their previous occupation, they were immediately ruled out.

The C.A.T. characters were added out of a spur of moment, and had no bearing to the quest. I just thought it would be fun for the players to see their "other" characters again.

Just one question, Sandy- did the six suspects have anything to do with the crime- did they steal the objects and give them to Watsap? Was Sir Loin mistaken or telling the truth? I'm still puzzled...

That's actually a great question, and indeed one of the loose ends left in the quest. Just between you and me, Watsap wasn't working alone.

The cameos were good as well - thanks for including Lillith in the quest, I really appreciate it.

I realized that I never asked your permission to use her, but since she had such a small role I thought you wouldn't mind. Glad to know that was the case.

[Kintobor]

But I'm glad the players had fun with the little puzzles, even though I felt they were a bit on the easy side.As a QM I needed a break from the battle-heavy quests as well. Again, thanks for playing, guys!

The C.A.T. characters were added out of a spur of moment, and had no bearing to the quest. I just thought it would be fun for the players to see their "other" characters again.

I realized that I never asked your permission to use her, but since she had such a small role I thought you wouldn't mind. Glad to know that was the case.

In the end, that's all that really matters to me. If the players had fun, than my complaints have less footing.

I thought that was the case, but still, it sort of caused an issue. I thought it was cool, don't get me wrong, but it the issue was present.

I liked Lilith's cameo as well, it was a welcome appearance, particularly since her last appearance was back in 78.

[Endgame]

the AIUPIIUP

I've been trying for a month now, and for the life of me I can't figure out what that is the abbreviated form of.

[CMP]

I've been trying for a month now, and for the life of me I can't figure out what that is the abbreviated form of.

The Apparatus to Imprint Upon Parchment Images that are Imprinted Upon Parchment. Obviously.

[Flare]

The Apparatus to Imprint Upon Parchment Images that are Imprinted Upon Parchment. Obviously.

Those dang U'Kin!

[Palathadric]

I think this was a highly inventive quest! The puzzles were awesome, and it was very unique to see a completely battle-less quest. I agree story structure wise a few more dropped hints in the beginning could have gone a long way (like Kint said, hat and cherries) and I also agree that it wasn't much of a mystery (there were no real suspects), but I don't really care that it wasn't much of a mystery. It was a puzzle quest, and as a puzzle quest, you greatly succeeded.

Exactly! In the beginning I thought it would be a mystery quest, but turned out to be a puzzle one. I don't mind at all. I very much liked the idea behind the quest. The puzzles may have been easy, but I wonder what would have happened had we got something wrong.

At the end I did felt a bit edgy when they wanted the answer in such a short period, especially since there wasn't really an actual case against gollum except what he said. That felt a bit funny, but again I got the impression that it was a puzzle quest not a mystery quest so the "mystery" played a small part, but the main part was to answer the puzzles right. It was fun meeting the veterans too and seeing bumbly old Pallas again.

I thought that only giving experience to those who answered made sense, as I think that's what's usually done for experience-giving puzzles. Only the hero who answers the puzzle gets the experience. One could say this is different because there were no battles, but then again I entered the quest not expecting to get more than one battles worth of experience, so I was pleasantly surprised to get more. I entered the quest because it sounded awesome and to get access to the artisan class. Also, once we realized that only those who answered got experience, I think I tried to make sure that everyone got a chance to answer, although mistakes couldn't be tolerated.

For my first Sandy quest, this was definitely a very positive experience. Maybe not Sandy's best, but still very good.

[-obelix-]

Thank you for a lovely quest Sandy!

It was nice to be apart of an experimental quest (again ), even tough the puzzle's were a bit on the easy side, as you have said. I was really glad to have seen the C.A.T. characters but the thing that made this quest great for me was the epilogue - the Merry Mermaid part. It was so much fun to speak to the owner and the veterans (not to mention Thalion's joy for returning Sheldon home).

I would like to use this opportunity to apologize to my fellow questees for the first puzzle - it was not my intention to grab all the experience for Thalion, I just didn't know the mechanics (I thought everyone would get XP as long as the puzzle was solved). I tried to mend that in the later ones.

P.S. Even tough PsyKater didn't post it as he rushed Amma to Elphaba's, I updated Thalion's equipment in the Stats page (as if she had returned the gems and scrolls) accordingly. Otherwise, Amma would be

.