CorneliusMurdock Posted November 20, 2012 Maybe they should revive Alexis so the battle can actually move forward a bit. What, so Haldor can knock her out again? I was only going to revive her if Haldor knocks himself out first. I'm officially jinxed now. How is that different from the way this battle was going before? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waterbrick Down Posted November 20, 2012 Agreed, that's where the Hunter's real advantage lies. You say a Ranger is better than a Hunter, but when we're taking into consideration the amount of damage a Hunter can deal, there's no competition (see Quest 30). Plus, you don't have to get any gems for those multipliers, and you have natural respite. No my point was when a Hunter isn't fighting a favored type, it still does damage 2/3 of the time, but it's power is reduced as Marking the Favored does as much damage as a normal hit as opposed to a Ranger whose Triple Shot does 3x normal damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brickdoctor Posted November 20, 2012 I think a Hunter's first move should be to get a Hunter's Quiver to favor two types. It has the potential to be as game changing for the class as the Witch's Talisman is for the Witch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zepher Posted November 20, 2012 I will (possibly) be including a new game mechanic in the Final Wren Quest, IF Sandy okay's it (poor dude has got like 4 PMs from me... I get too enthusiastic) AND if players would be interested. This is for everyone, but particularly for those eligible for the final Wren Quest. Heroes who remain KO'd at the end of a battle will be REMOVED from the Quest. They may return to the hall (or continue to roleplay within the quest), but will be too "injured" to go on a quest until the Wren Quest is over. They will still receive the reward for the quest, should it succeed. Would people be interested in this? The benefit would be a) higher stakes, and b) I could take more players. I also doubt ANYONE would be knocked out early in the quest, but rather would be able beaten out in the final stages if at all. I would feel comfortable raising the cap from the current 8 to 10 or 12 if this rule was in place. So... thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waterbrick Down Posted November 20, 2012 I will (possibly) be including a new game mechanic in the Final Wren Quest, IF Sandy okay's it (poor dude has got like 4 PMs from me... I get too enthusiastic) AND if players would be interested. This is for everyone, but particularly for those eligible for the final Wren Quest. Heroes who remain KO'd at the end of a battle will be REMOVED from the Quest. They may return to the hall (or continue to roleplay within the quest), but will be too "injured" to go on a quest until the Wren Quest is over. They will still receive the reward for the quest, should it succeed. Would people be interested in this? The benefit would be a) higher stakes, and b) I could take more players. I also doubt ANYONE would be knocked out early in the quest, but rather would be able beaten out in the final stages if at all. I would feel comfortable raising the cap from the current 8 to 10 or 12 if this rule was in place. So... thoughts? I'm up for it, but I would request that the 24 hour rule be strictly enforced. The more people on a quest, the longer it takes to get things done unfortunately and it's harder to keep up the flow of a conversation or momentum of an action, when you're waiting for people's reply another 18 hours later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMP Posted November 20, 2012 I would be up for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zepher Posted November 20, 2012 That's why I take (almost) all the pictures ahead of time. I actually NEED to get to certain events before I leave again for college. You will all be making choices that effect later parts of the quest... and if I don't have the pictures prepared... well, there are a few variations of WHICH NPCs (both friendlies and enemies) might be alive at certain points, so I need to get up to the point where you've either saved or killed the lot of them, so I know who to include in later pictures and who to not include. That's one opinion in! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flipz Posted November 20, 2012 Good points, Flipz. I personally think that the best options would be to not re-tool Meditate, but give the Shaman a different 4 roll (this way other classes aren't affected), and also tweaking the Blood Ritual. That's what I meant, Meditate still works as-is for Sage/Paladin, it just doesn't quite fit with Shaman. Interesting. I was just going over the Witch class in my head a few days ago, and I thought it to be one of the weaker classes. The Shield and Special Damage skills are definitely the highlights of it for me, but if you think about it, everything else is lacking. Without the Talisman I wouldn't even consider the class useful. It has a 1/3 chance to deal damage no more powerful than any other class, and at this point in the game poison does very little. And there will be a point where even deadly poison won't do much, which is why I've been an advocate for updated poison/deadly poisons (having them deal a set percent instead of a set amount of damage), but that's another debate. Another reason I would never go Witch is because why bother with inflicting negative effects when you can just instakill? Like I've mentioned to you before, what I love about Witch is that you can do almost anything. Healing and high health bonus allows for limited tanking, poison (while I agree without the Talisman the class is quite underpowered) can really ravage opponents, and Hex is great for keep large groups of enemies occupied. As long as you have the right equipment, it's a very well-rounded class. I haven't seen one enemy yet immune, specifically, to Badly Posioned, and at least 2 dozen immune to sudden death in Quest 44. Assassins are one of the best AC choices damage-wise, but that's about all they can do. You have? I don't remember. You mean OHKO-wise? But what you say is true, when it comes to enemies immune to instakill, Assassins are really just as effective as Rogues. I still gained a lot of gold thanks to the instakill-proof enemies, though, so there's that. It's good to hear different perspectives on different classes, though. To each his own, at least we are satisfied, mostly, with our class choices. Witch, like Sorcerer, gets positive effects on 5/6 rolls. While poison could definitely use a buff, it's still at least somewhat useful. Anyway, there's another strength to both Witch and Sorcerer that I neglected to mention: the component classes share little in terms of equippable gear and weapons, which gives a huge array of flexibility in potential equipment. On the Mystic Knight, which I forgot to bring up before, CallMePie is right, an MK is essentially a melee class because of how Enchantment sucks up so much ether. I had never thought of it that way because Cinna has been the only active Mystic Knight and began as a Mage. There is at least the option to stay in the back row and fling spells, but Enchantment is a good balancing factor that prevents that from taking place forever. As Pandora once said, Mages, in any RPG or fantasy-type game, Mages start as the most powerful offensively, but the weakest defensively. As they advance levels, though, they become more powerful. MK's Enchantment prevents that from going too far, because without it an MK would have the benefits of a Warden - back row with shield - but with bigger damage. I think I brought that up as well. I agree, it is indeed a fascination class to study. I will (possibly) be including a new game mechanic in the Final Wren Quest, IF Sandy okay's it (poor dude has got like 4 PMs from me... I get too enthusiastic) AND if players would be interested. This is for everyone, but particularly for those eligible for the final Wren Quest. Heroes who remain KO'd at the end of a battle will be REMOVED from the Quest. They may return to the hall (or continue to roleplay within the quest), but will be too "injured" to go on a quest until the Wren Quest is over. They will still receive the reward for the quest, should it succeed. Would people be interested in this? The benefit would be a) higher stakes, and b) I could take more players. I also doubt ANYONE would be knocked out early in the quest, but rather would be able beaten out in the final stages if at all. I would feel comfortable raising the cap from the current 8 to 10 or 12 if this rule was in place. So... thoughts? While I appreciate the concept of this, I must say I'm not really a fan of the idea. The whole reason I like going on Wren Quests is the chance to interact with other characters and roleplay through the hard discussions; the potential of losing that opportunity would be quite daunting. Perhaps players who are KO'd at the end of a battle would become "disabled" in some way (like how the Gray Wizard was too injured to attack but not too injured to heal), and if they manage to get themselves KO'd to the end of battle again THEN they'd be "REMOVED"? Gives the Heroes a bit of protection against bad rolls and killer dice, which can happen to anyone even with good planning... I guess I don't really understand the concept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMP Posted November 20, 2012 If it's too extreme, maybe the hero has just half their health/ether/level halved for the rest of the Quest? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zepher Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) That would not allow me to expand the numbers though. The whole idea would be that the number of characters for me to balance would go down. You would still be able to interact with the rest of the party, however! Just would have to sit out battles. And again, I doubt it would come up until later parts of the quest, a total of two weeks out if at all would be my prediction. As for disabilities... those will be occurring in the quest currently anyway. I released the two specials soul sucker and back breaker (perma-sealed and perma-unable to use physical attacks). The hope with this mechanic is raising the stakes AND allowing me to take more players. And there is no protection on Wren Quests! All that being said, thank you for the feedback, I will certainly take everything into account, I don't want to dissuade players who would come. All you'd be losing out on would be exp, really. The interaction element would still be there, and you could still help strategize! Edited November 20, 2012 by Zepher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flipz Posted November 20, 2012 All you'd be losing out on would be exp, really. The interaction element would still be there, and you could still help strategize! That's all I was worried about. Count me in! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waterbrick Down Posted November 20, 2012 While I appreciate the concept of this, I must say I'm not really a fan of the idea. The whole reason I like going on Wren Quests is the chance to interact with other characters and roleplay through the hard discussions; the potential of losing that opportunity would be quite daunting. Perhaps players who are KO'd at the end of a battle would become "disabled" in some way (like how the Gray Wizard was too injured to attack but not too injured to heal), and if they manage to get themselves KO'd to the end of battle again THEN they'd be "REMOVED"? Gives the Heroes a bit of protection against bad rolls and killer dice, which can happen to anyone even with good planning... I guess I don't really understand the concept. I think it adds more value to phoenix essences and druids. When it comes down to it, loss of 1/3 a level isn't so much of a loss anymore it feels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flipz Posted November 20, 2012 I think it adds more value to phoenix essences and druids. When it comes down to it, loss of 1/3 a level isn't so much of a loss anymore it feels. It depends on what you're playing for and where you're at. If you're playing for story, that sort of thing isn't a huge deal; Level is just icing on the cake that lets you get in to different Quests and, when combined with the Advanced, Expert, and Master Class rules, provide a framework for planning character development. Likewise, 1/3 of a level will be really crucial closer to Level 30, just like 1/2 of a level is huge for characters who want to get to Level 15. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsyKater Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Woah, that's a bit strong isn't it? Haldor strolls up to the bar and orders a tab of LSD. Hey, she is a Mage after all, isn't she? She lived on her own in a forest for years, learning to be a Mage, experimenting with the goods the nature offers. So a normal herbal tea would not meet her "needs", I guess. And there is obv. no Cleric /Paladin... stopping her. Maybe later on... Edited November 20, 2012 by PsyKater Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flipz Posted November 20, 2012 And holy hand grenades, I've been over 3,000 posts for a WHILE now and didn't even notice. Gotta love how an active Quest will boost post counts like nothing else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsyKater Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) That would not allow me to expand the numbers though. The whole idea would be that the number of characters for me to balance would go down. You would still be able to interact with the rest of the party, however! Just would have to sit out battles. And again, I doubt it would come up until later parts of the quest, a total of two weeks out if at all would be my prediction. As for disabilities... those will be occurring in the quest currently anyway. I released the two specials soul sucker and back breaker (perma-sealed and perma-unable to use physical attacks). The hope with this mechanic is raising the stakes AND allowing me to take more players. And there is no protection on Wren Quests! All that being said, thank you for the feedback, I will certainly take everything into account, I don't want to dissuade players who would come. All you'd be losing out on would be exp, really. The interaction element would still be there, and you could still help strategize! I think it is a great idea. Gives a lot opportunity for RP as well, as the other members have to carry the injured around. But you have to think about something, why the clerics and consumables are not able to heal their injuries any more. Skrall glances again at the orc, "Probably didn't deserve it." He looks to see who he is bidding against before barking out "310" On another note: Thank you WBD! I was getting very nervous, as I really wanted to know what would happen if the party starts bidding. Since I think it is the right way to continue...) Edited November 20, 2012 by PsyKater Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flipz Posted November 20, 2012 "I know the new Dastan Emperor personally, as well as the old Emperor's daughter. As Mr Daggerfall said, the best lies are told with a grain of truth. We could pass for Ambassadors of Dastan, I am sure." Nice title drop, you two. Though I thought Ella was the daughter of Emperor Septrine, one of the two still-reigning Emperors? Unless something's happened that we haven't heard about back in Eubric... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBoyWonder Posted November 20, 2012 Endgame, how many more battles will there be? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zepher Posted November 20, 2012 It depends on what you're playing for and where you're at. If you're playing for story, that sort of thing isn't a huge deal; Level is just icing on the cake that lets you get in to different Quests and, when combined with the Advanced, Expert, and Master Class rules, provide a framework for planning character development. Likewise, 1/3 of a level will be really crucial closer to Level 30, just like 1/2 of a level is huge for characters who want to get to Level 15. Oh, absolutely! There is some risk in it! I want some risk. If you're not scared during a Wren quest, I'm doing something wrong!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBoyWonder Posted November 20, 2012 Sandy, WBD, can we have some kind of Class descriptors for Claws. I figure it would be for Beast Warriors Rogues and Barbarians. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpiox Posted November 20, 2012 Heroes who remain KO'd at the end of a battle will be REMOVED from the Quest. They may return to the hall (or continue to roleplay within the quest), but will be too "injured" to go on a quest until the Wren Quest is over. They will still receive the reward for the quest, should it succeed. Would people be interested in this? The benefit would be a) higher stakes, and b) I could take more players. I also doubt ANYONE would be knocked out early in the quest, but rather would be able beaten out in the final stages if at all. I would feel comfortable raising the cap from the current 8 to 10 or 12 if this rule was in place. So... thoughts? Although I like the idea, I confess that I'm not too keen on it in practice. There would be nothing in the world worse for me, than to spend ages preparing and hyping myself for the quest, only to be downed and killed before the end, when the golden roleplay happens. I'm also deeply scared that no-one would really want to revive Haldor anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zepher Posted November 20, 2012 Again, roleplaying would still be there, as would strategy. You simply would not be in the battle order or acting during the battles, but your roleplaying would not be slowed at all (it would actually probably give you more fuel). Does that change how you feel? Or still not appealing? Please, people outside the quest, weigh in too, I want to make sure its fun for everyone, but want to include as many people as possible! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pyrovisionary Posted November 20, 2012 It depends on what you're playing for and where you're at. If you're playing for story, that sort of thing isn't a huge deal; Level is just icing on the cake that lets you get in to different Quests and, when combined with the Advanced, Expert, and Master Class rules, provide a framework for planning character development. Likewise, 1/3 of a level will be really crucial closer to Level 30, just like 1/2 of a level is huge for characters who want to get to Level 15. Yeah... I'm totally not one of them! I play story first I'm stats all the way. First quest master to get me to fifteen gets my eternal loyalty! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waterbrick Down Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Sandy, WBD, can we have some kind of Class descriptors for Claws. I figure it would be for Beast Warriors Rogues and Barbarians. Ummm... not sure why you need my opinion, but when I created Haldor's Bear Claws I had Barbarians mostly in mind, though Rogues and Beast Warriors seems like a logical choice as well. Looking at actual weapon type availability: Barbarian: 6 Cleric: 4 Knight: 5 Mage: 4 Ranger: 4 Rogue: 5 Assassin: 8 Berserker: 9 Black Knight: 9 Druid: 8 Evoker: 8 Hunter: 10 Mystic Knight: 9 Paladin: 8 Raider: 11 Sage: 7 Shaman: 9 Sorcerer: 8 Warden: 9 Witch: 9 Alchemist: 6 Beast Warrior: 8 Cannoneer: 1 Chi Monk: 0 Dragoon: 3 Harlot: 2 Infiltrator: 7 Minstrel: 1 Necromancer: 7 Skirmisher: 4 Mime: 20 Paragon: 14 Prophet: 10 It's interesting to note how the Advanced classes and Master classes have the most choices, while the some of the Expert classes have the lowest variety of any class. As far as flexibility goes: Basic Class: Barbarian Advanced Class: Raider Expert Class: Beast Warrior Master Class: Mime (Obviously ) Edited November 20, 2012 by Waterbrick Down Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy Posted November 20, 2012 I've been contemplating on including claws as one of the official weapon types, but so far my claw-type weapons (Demonic Scissors, at least) have been slotted as daggers. If I were to dedice on who gets to use claws, I would say rogues, barbarians and beast warriors. Maybe harlots as well, since they have such a low weapon selection - and claws are kinda kinky, aren't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
