Capn Frank Posted June 13, 2011 I've read your rule-theories and find them to be most fascinating and impressing. However, while I find these suggestions to be incredibly accurate, I created my suggestions for the sake of playability. It took a bunch of highly organized, well trained geeks for Star Trek like my RPG group half a year to realize, that sometimes it's more fun to simply add a rule than searching for the power coupling that would make it possible for the phasers to be more powerful in that tank. That is a good point about keeping things simple. My current intention for the derived sailing speed formula is for the use of an ESPG MOD with the use of Excel instead of pen & paper or an online game. So a complex formula will be will automatically give a max. sailing speed without the user of the sheet knowing how this value was derived. Just thought I would let you know about what I have done so to see if you or anyone else were interested. As for the officers: my bad, I didn't want to implicate that there are only four officers but only made rules for those As for the number of officers for ship, I don't believe the gaming rules need to state a limit to the number officers allowed on a vessel. However, there could be rules that state that officers don't assist with the reloading of cannons, they motivate and coordinate the gun crew and aim the cannon. There is no rule stated to be able to play, you must follow some building technique. In ESPG there is a limit to build with only 16-wide, pre-fab hulls if you want a larger, faster ship. I believe SkaforHire is stating that he does not want such limitations in the "Horry Game" rules. Okay, now that gives me somethin' to work with. If the folks around here are so deep into the whole stuff that talking about formulas is no problem, then I love it! Just didn't want to scare people away. I'd start programming a calculator for the ships based on Phred's formula if he gives permission to do so. I have no problem with others using my formula. I'm not worried about keeping it a secrete or anything. For the weight conversion, I use 1 kg of a Lego ship = 76 tons. For the length, beam, and sail area I use about a 1:40 scale. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazmaniac Posted June 13, 2011 Horry knows what he's talking about "less is more" when playing online RPG. Now I just need to finish my ships update. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.JohnPaul Posted June 13, 2011 In ESPG there is a limit to build with only 16-wide, pre-fab hulls if you want a larger, faster ship. I believe SkaforHire is stating that he does not want such limitations in the "Horry Game" rules. Got it. Though we are not talking about ESPG, but rather we are talking about the Horry Game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Genaro Posted June 14, 2011 Looking over all these rules, I think that it would be a lot of fun but I would also suggest adding several things. 1) Some ships/crews were better at fighting because they had better officers who trained the men to be faster gunners, stricter discipline etc. 2) How would weather/ night play into effect? I might be able to escape an opponent who is beating me if the weather turns in my favor or if I can lose him in the dark. I really like where this is going. (1) (4) (3) (2) I hope you see my logic here. Capt.JohnPaul 1,4,3,2. Interesting logic:pir-tongue:. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.JohnPaul Posted June 14, 2011 1,4,3,2. Interesting logic:pir-tongue:. Oh shut up! I just copied and pasted in the order I wanted! Genaro, for 1, how about we make a rule where everyone is equally trained. Or redcoats do a bit more damage then bluecoats, and bluecoats reload faster then redcoats or something. And 2, I think Horry said the weather would be chosen before the battle and would remain the same, so I assume it will be the same dor weather and time of day. Besides, ships have lanterns to see you. Or we all wear eye-patches all day, and at night switch it to the other side, and then there is night vision! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cap'n Crunch Posted June 14, 2011 Set a limit to the number of ships in the game. For e.g. one flagship of any type, one brig, two galleons, two schrooners, three sloops, five other ships. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horry Posted June 14, 2011 A limit would be an interesting idea, I'll think about that. Folks, I have rewritten and re-organized the rules. Would you investigate if it meets your approval? I'll start on doing a paragraph on translating the ships into the game as soon as Phred's picture of his formula re-appears. I cannot see it right now for the server seems to be down There's also an example map and I'd like to know whether you think these graphics would be good enough to let your ships float around on them. PS: If some of you have baseplates from the classic pirates series, it would be really useful if you could make aerial pictures of them and upload them somewhere. I can only find shipwreck island 16x16 and this one I already have. But I'd like to include all baseplates in the maps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.JohnPaul Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) Folks, I have rewritten and re-organized the rules. Would you investigate if it meets your approval? I'll start on doing a paragraph on translating the ships into the game as soon as Phred's picture of his formula re-appears. I cannot see it right now for the server seems to be down I have a question. If our captains die, there is penalties, but how do we know when one dies? Also, do you/can you upload a template so we can make our own ship stats? Like this: And for the Vesta, how again did you come up with 1500 health? Thanks. Capt.JohnPaul EDIT: Also, how did you get the sail and beam reach things? Edited June 14, 2011 by Capt.JohnPaul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horry Posted June 15, 2011 aye, good questions. I am workin' on a small set of rules for the game hosts that have a randomgenerator as a basis. If damage is taken there's the chance that the program (in basic a 20 side dice) will give out number one = captain's blown to pieces! concerning uploading the template: I'd really like to but I want to finish the rules first so you don't have to do it all over again. For example I will try to make new rules regarding the speed (according to Phred's formula). Until now, I had just given every type of ship (rating system) a fixed speed. The same for the health points: there is a sheet that contains numbers that seemed appropriate to me for the different types of ships. They are based on how much damage by 24 pounders can be done before the ship would be probably destroyed. If you add additional details to your ship that make it reasonable to give it more health points, then they can be included (such as strengthened gallery for example) gun brig: 500 sloop O' war: 700 Post ship: 1500 6th rate: 2000 5th rate: 2500 4th rate: 3000 3rd rate: 3500 2nd rate: 4500 1st rate: 5000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.JohnPaul Posted June 15, 2011 aye, good questions. I am workin' on a small set of rules for the game hosts that have a randomgenerator as a basis. If damage is taken there's the chance that the program (in basic a 20 side dice) will give out number one = captain's blown to pieces! The same for the health points: there is a sheet that contains numbers that seemed appropriate to me for the different types of ships. They are based on how much damage by 24 pounders can be done before the ship would be probably destroyed. If you add additional details to your ship that make it reasonable to give it more health points, then they can be included (such as strengthened gallery for example) D&D! Hilarious! I like the 20 sided dice that decides if your captain dies. For the health, that makes sense. So I assume it is the same kind of thing for sails?? (Brigs can move x yards/meters in y seconds, and each turn represents z seconds/minutes) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capn Frank Posted June 15, 2011 concerning uploading the template: I'd really like to but I want to finish the rules first so you don't have to do it all over again. For example I will try to make new rules regarding the speed (according to Phred's formula). Until now, I had just given every type of ship (rating system) a fixed speed. If I would have known that Majhost would have stopped working the day after I place a pic of the formula on the site, I wouldn't have posted it there. Will have to wait until tonight to look on my computer to post it as just text. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horry Posted June 15, 2011 D&D! Hilarious! I like the 20 sided dice that decides if your captain dies. For the health, that makes sense. So I assume it is the same kind of thing for sails?? (Brigs can move x yards/meters in y seconds, and each turn represents z seconds/minutes) aye, but I want to make it more custom so you can add the speficic speed of your very own ship, not just the class. a turn would represent about an hour and a square roughly 5x5 km If I would have known that Majhost would have stopped working the day after I place a pic of the formula on the site, I wouldn't have posted it there. Will have to wait until tonight to look on my computer to post it as just text. Well, that's what I call bad luck! I'll try to finish it tonight, then. Everybody start taking aerial photos of their ships... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.JohnPaul Posted June 15, 2011 aye, but I want to make it more custom so you can add the speficic speed of your very own ship, not just the class. a turn would represent about an hour and a square roughly 5x5 km Ok, so there is only 24 turns before we all get tired? I'll try to finish it tonight, then. Everybody start taking aerial photos of their ships... Let's get the action started! Wonder who'll I face... got a gun brig and sloop of war. (moded BBB with now 5 cannons and 8 gun ship with two mounted blunderbusses and an overcrouded crew ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horry Posted June 15, 2011 Ok, so there is only 24 turns before we all get tired? Let's get the action started! Wonder who'll I face... got a gun brig and sloop of war. (moded BBB with now 5 cannons and 8 gun ship with two mounted blunderbusses and an overcrouded crew ) Harr, that would be a bit too lenient towards our crews, wouldn't it? Battles of that time could last hours or just an hour, depending on the speed of wind and the maneuvers. What we could include is a change of day- and nighttime during longer games. And: I'll need to finish the sails for Centaur or else I won't be able to participate in my own game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.JohnPaul Posted June 15, 2011 Where should I post pictures of my ships?/When? I'll tell more details of it later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkaForHire Posted June 15, 2011 Are you getting the posts confused? When you say "rules" and "game" like that, it sounds like you are getting an idea that is a mixture of kurigan and Horry. Kurigan was the one that wanted a census taken and to compare ships based on certain rules or techniques. Horry is creating a game, there is no rules on technique, just rules on how much damage a certain cannon would do, or how far a ship could sail in 1 turn. There is no rule stated to be able to play, you must follow some building technique. This also would be fair because we wouldn't have a fleet against a smaller fleet, I would like to establish brackets were brigs go against brigs and so on. So we wouldn't have a first rate attack a 6th rate. Each battle is fair unless the players announce otherwise. ("How about we see what happens when my frigate attacks your frigate AND brig at the same time!") I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I am just saying I would hate to discourage a certain type of building technique; either because a game was created or the board adopted an "accepted ship building practice." My main point for the game idea is, if someone is building a game, they should just run it and not discuss it for two months with everyone else. That is the best way to design a game in my opinion. I have designed a few games in my earlier career, and this seems to work the best. Going back to your post -On top of brackets, there should be a round robin or a season that lasts a month (maybe even with direct challenges) and then a playoff bracket at the end to determine champion of the season. That might spark me to actually break my ships out of storage and build something new. To reiterate, I am not saying we shouldn't have a game, I just don't want to see something become so dominant that people really don't build with their full imagination anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.JohnPaul Posted June 15, 2011 To reiterate, I am not saying we shouldn't have a game, I just don't want to see something become so dominant that people really don't build with their full imagination anymore. Well, the way Horry is planning it you wont see an actual technique, it is a birds I view so you wont see close up details. Even if you did, it is just a game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cap'n Crunch Posted June 16, 2011 Is there an ammo limit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.JohnPaul Posted June 16, 2011 Is there an ammo limit? Good idea. And Horry, if each turn is 1 hour, it actually takes 5 hours to reload a 24 pounder cannon? Where should I post pictures of my ships?/When? (Just in case you didn't want to scroll down to my post 4 posts ago... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horry Posted June 16, 2011 Good idea. And Horry, if each turn is 1 hour, it actually takes 5 hours to reload a 24 pounder cannon? You-are-absolutely-right What was I thinking? Okay, I'll think about this. Where should I post pictures of my ships?/When? (Just in case you didn't want to scroll down to my post 4 posts ago... The where is a good question. I asked Dragonator if he'd like the Pirates game to be hosted in the wargames section and so far I got no answer. Considering this, I'll ask the pirates crew if were alright to play the games around here. If you could upload the pictures on flickr or alike and pm me the link, I'll shop them clean and scale them ready for you. There still some minor issues with the frikkin' speed-sheeds, so I'll need a couple of hours more, sorry. Why is ist that everytime I do somethin' like this game, work keeps gettin' in the way? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazmaniac Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) I'll take this to the crew and see if we can get a place for the game to be played. Edited June 16, 2011 by TazManiac Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.JohnPaul Posted June 16, 2011 The where is a good question. I asked Dragonator if he'd like the Pirates game to be hosted in the wargames section and so far I got no answer. Considering this, I'll ask the pirates crew if were alright to play the games around here. If you could upload the pictures on flickr or alike and pm me the link, I'll shop them clean and scale them ready for you. PM sent, and hurry Horry, get the speed done! No rush, take your time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cap'n Crunch Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) The game is a promising idea. Perhaps you could post some profiles of sets from LEGO. Edited June 17, 2011 by Cap'n Crunch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tazmaniac Posted June 17, 2011 If you still need the 32x32 island base plate image let me know and I'll shot it for you tomorrow. The Hell Hound version 2 (Brig of war) is now ready for action and will be in the MOC forum tomorrow aswell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horry Posted June 17, 2011 Okay, much work has been done. Phred and I have discussed many possibilities for the speed-matter and I think we have come to a working solution. I will post the final rules today. There'll be additional rules for having marines on board. The problem with the recharging time has been dealt with. The cannons are now weaker, as are the health points. But smaller cannons can be fired more times/per turn while bigger calibers have lesser shots per round. I have finished the templates for the ships and will upload them soon. There will be three documents in total. One *.doc sheet that can be opened with Word or OpenOffice. This one is the ship template. The next one is a pdf document containing the rules. The third one will be an excel-sheet (can be opened with OpenOffice, too). This one contains tables and formulas in order to make it easy for you to calculate your speed and your health. Taz: If you could do the baseplate, that would be brilliant!Also lookin' forward to the Hell Hound. If you folks want to do some preparations, measure your ships in terms of: Sailing area square sails Sailing area lateen sails Length and beam of the ship's main hull weight (just take the ship and step on a scale, that's how I did it. and don't forget to count your crew Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
