Jareth

Heroica Home Rules

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Hey there, I've got the new Heroica games and I feel that the rules need a little tweaking, but that's the best thing about Lego Games is that the sets encourage home rules. So I'll post a couple of ideas I had.

#1 To make the game more cooperative, have the Druid be able to heal any adjacent character on a shield roll, but take away the ability of heroes to heal themselves if they loose all 4 hit points. You could also have characters be able to pool gold together and give potions to each other, between missions.

#2 For some reason the weapons and the hero powers are very much alike, so there is no point in buying an axe for a barbarian or a wand for a wizard, but what if a character WITH the matching weapon was able to use the power on a Shield or a 3 roll instead of just on the shield roll. I just don't think the special powers are used often enough.

#3 Perhaps when you roll a Shield and can't use it, you can skip a turn and save it for later on in the game.

#4 Give monsters hit points equal to their power. When a hero hits one they loose 1 hit point. So it takes 3 hits to destroy the goblin king. As a monster takes hits you can put red 1x1 round plates on their heads, to keep track of damage.

#4.1 when monsters hit heroes they do damage equal to the total hit points left. (So if a goblin king takes 1 hit and has 2 hit points left and then does damage to the hero, the hero takes 2 points of damage, not 3)

#4.2 But what about when a hero and monster hit each other at the same time? Use the monster power/HP from the START of the turn.

#4.3 I suppose heroes could have the same effect, so the less damaged a hero is the more damage he does.

Edited by Rufus
Indexed

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Hey there, I've got the new Heroica games and I feel that the rules need a little tweaking, but that's the best thing about Lego Games is that the sets encourage home rules. So I'll post a couple of ideas I had.

>snip<

#2 For some reason the weapons and the hero powers are very much alike, so there is no point in buying an axe for a barbarian or a wand for a wizard, but what if a character WITH the matching weapon was able to use the power on a Shield or a 3 roll instead of just on the shield roll. I just don't think the special powers are used often enough.

I really like your rule #2. I agree shield powers don't get used enough.

Here are the house rules we've been playing with.

The first set of rules are to make battles a little longer and going up against high level monsters a

little more dangerous:

1. Characters start out as level 1. They gain a level when they defeat a monster of a higher level.

2. Monsters have hit points equal to their level. Monsters cannot heal.

3. On a combat roll of a sword, characters do damage equal to their level. On a roll of a shield, they do their level + 1.

If both the character and monster are still undefeated and adjacent, the character rolls for battle again.

The next rule is because no one in our group ever wants to play the barbarian, and since we have the three smaller

games, we have three barbarian figures.

4. Characters can hire a level 1 Barbarian for 2 gold at the start of their turn. The barbarian appears on an empty space

next to the player. The player rolls and moves the Barbarian first, then rolls and moves the character.

The Barbarian cannot pick up items, but can fight (Barbarians do not gain levels and cannot be healed),

and can remove rocks and move magic doors. Players can hire only one Barbarian at a time, but multiple players

can have Barbarians (we place a small brick on the head of the Barbarian of a color matching the controlling

player).

The next rule adds player combat:

5. Characters who are carrying a weapon or a relic can be attacked by other players.

Relics and weapons cannot be sold while in the dungeon. A player that looses all health

must drop a relic and move back one space.

Crystal of Deflection (from Draida):

If a player owns the crystal of deflection, place it on the head of their character. If a character is hit in combat,

they can optionally not take any damage, drop the crystal, and move back one space.

"Get in, Get out" scenario:

Players start at the entrance space. A goal is chosen, such as "Capture all three relics" or "Defeat the Goblin General".

Once the goal is accomplished, all characters head back to the entrance space. When they get there, relics are sold

for 2 gold, weapons sold for 2 gold, and corpses sold for half-gold each (rounding down). The player with the most

gold wins.

Edited by Rufus
No need to quote the whole post

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I really like your rule #2. I agree shield powers don't get used enough.

H

The next rule is because no one in our group ever wants to play the barbarian, and since we have the three smaller

games, we have three barbarian figures.

I agree, the barbarian is the least useful of the characters. I also had a problem when I combined all four sets as described in the rules. The magic portals from the forest are annoying because they can be placed anywhere. Getting through locked doors and past rockfalls isn't fun either. So perhaps giving the barbarian an advantage against these hazards would make that character more appealing.

Alternate barbarian powers. A barbarian next to a locked door or a magic portal can break it down by rolling a shield or a 3. A barbarian who is knocked back by a rock pile can reroll once per turn.

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I thought that Heroica was a little too easy so I came up with this.

Heroica: Advanced

Heroica: Advanced is a variant of the original game. The game is identical to the original with the following exceptions. Normal six-sided dice are used and each hero is given a statline. Each statline has the following attributes: Maximum Speed (MS), Combat Power (CP), Ranged Power (RP), Evasive Abilities (EA), and Overall Endurance (OE). MS is the maximum amount of spaces a hero can move each turn. CP is the hero’s ability in melee. RP is the hero’s ability from a distance. EA is the hero’s prowess for dodging attacks. Finally, OE is, in other words, the hero’s health. All of the hero’s special abilities stay the same in this variant.

When a hero attacks a monster, you compare the hero’s CP or RP (which ever applies) to the monster’s EA. You then roll a die and add that number to the CP or RP. If that number exceeds the monster’s EA rating, then it takes damage equal to the number it was exceeded by. The damage number is subtracted from the monster’s OE. If a monster loses all of its OE points, it is removed from play. This combat system works the same way when a monster is attacking a hero. Note that when a hero is using a ranged attack, it must have a ranged weapon such as a bow.

The statlines for each hero or monster are as follows.

BARBARIAN-MS:3-CP:4-RP:1-EA:4-OE:5

WIZARD-MS:3-CP:2-RP:4-EA:4-OE:4

DRUID-MS:3-CP:2-RP:2-EA:3-OE:7

THEIF-MS:5-CP:3-RP:3-EA:5-OE:4

RANGER-MS:4-CP:3-RP:5-EA:4-OE:5

KNIGHT-MS:2-CP:4-RP:4-EA:3-OE:6

THE GOBLIN KING-MS:3-CP:5-RP:1-EA:4-OE:5

THE GOBLIN GENERAL-MS:3-CP:4-RP:1-EA:4-OE:4

GOBLIN GUARDIAN-MS:3-CP:4-RP:1-EA:3-OE:3

GOBLIN WARRIOR-MS:3-CP:2-RP:1-EA:2-OE:2

THE DARK DRUID-MS:4-CP:3-RP:5-EA:4-OE:4

WEREWOLF-MS:5-CP:4-RP:1-EA:5-OE:3

SPIDER-MS:5-CP:2-RP:1-EA:5-OE:2

BAT-MS:5-CP:1-RP:1-EA:5-OE:1

THE GOLEM LORD-MS:2-CP:5-RP:1-EA:2-OE:7

GOLEM GUARDIAN-MS:2-CP:3-RP:1-EA:2-OE:5

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@pathfinderofdoom: And while I have no qualms about such an approach to gaming (I play everything), I can't help but feel it's… … "not LEGO enough". It's exactly what I didn't like about BrikWars and Brickscape: it borrows _too much_ from the D&D/Warhammer/etc. genre - it's informed by the "before times" when the LEGO Games theme didn't exist. As a rough sorta example, you spend a lot of effort duplicating hit points, by ditching the existing Strength stat and creating OE and then adding a particular rule for reducing OE by recreating THAC0/AC. But, in my head, that's too complex. What if, instead, a monster's hit points are simply their Strength? I've been playtesting using Strength as "number of times they must be defeated", which is represented by studs stacked on the microfig's head. A werewolf with a Strength of 2 has two studs on his head at the beginning of gameplay. When he is defeated once (using the regular Heroica rules), a stud is removed. When all studs are removed, he's removed from play. This extends the monster's time on the board.

Now, granted, this doesn't necessarily solve my biggest gripe about Heroica: the utter lack of skill involved. The core Heroica is all about the dice rolls, and nothing about "Strength is the number of times they must be defeated" increases player skill. I still think, however, that it's "more LEGO-like" than what you've come up with. (Again, no disrespect intended: yours is a perfectly valid approach, it's just not where my mindset is). Perhaps THAC0/AC could be represented as "the roll must be greater than the number of studs on their head" (i.e., a werewolf can only be hit if you roll 2 or higher), but then you'd have to roll AGAIN to actually see what happens - not a huge fan of that either.

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@Morbus Iff

I completely agree. I made these rules because I am a player of Warhammer, Warhammer 40k, and other similar games. The gameplay that I came up with just feels more natural to me. I do enjoy a certain level of complexety in the games I play, and as Heroica is driven twords the younger crowd, I wanted to up the level of complexety a bit. I do like your ideas and may do another post with a modified version. It can get very confusing playing my way. All I was doing is looking for a way to make it more of an upper aged game that takes more than ten minutes to play. The current Heroica rules are fine, but again they were meant for the younger crowd. Thanks for your constructive critisism. I will use it.

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I'd love to collab on such a beast. Here, I think, would be my goals:

  • Keep it inspired first and foremost by the LEGO Games theme.
  • Use the LEGO dice (using multiple Heroica dice would be OK).
  • Continue to use the hero pack concept - all game stats represented in LEGO bricks.
  • Encourage collaborative play - the core instructions have one person winning, but it should be the party who wins.
  • Make "Battle Heroica" the default? There always must be one person who controls the monsters?

And rampant fanboyism:

  • I'd love to make a minifig-scaled Heroica, with each of the collectible-series minifigs being a class.

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Awesome, I never undersstood why battle heroica was'nt the default. Okay I want to incorporate some sort of new combat system with something like you mentioned about the strength of the hero or monster being more than just one "attribute". The strength could be the "health" and how much damage that attacks do. One thing though is that I do (like you said) want to use the hero pack instead of putting studs on their heads. I've never been a fan of that. Calloboration is easy, monsters vs heroes, not individual heroes vs A.I. monsters. The minifig scale is on you. Your flying solo on that one. Reply soon!

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Awesome, I never undersstood why battle heroica was'nt the default. Okay I want to incorporate some sort of new combat system with something like you mentioned about the strength of the hero or monster being more than just one "attribute". The strength could be the "health" and how much damage that attacks do. One thing though is that I do (like you said) want to use the hero pack instead of putting studs on their heads.

I can think of a few reasons Battle wasn't the default: different goals (get the chalice vs. kill the heroes), positiveness (everyone's a Hero! No one's the Villain!), etc. But, yeah, I think for an Advanced sort of format, having the monsters move around and become First Class Citizens is important. What about the "move only one monster per turn" rule? Clearly, the intent of it is to prevent one player from monopolizing the board (1 hero action vs. 6 monster actions), but it's not hugely realistic. What if the Villain (term for "the player controlling the monsters"?) can move as many monsters per turn as there are Heroes? I think that's a quick, easy, and "fair" fix.

I'm also +1 for collaborative map creation: given a set of Heroica "rooms", each player takes turns adding/connecting it to the board.

Regarding studs on the head: +1 if it means Monsters get their own Monster Pack. Biggest problem I see there is: given five werewolves on the board, how do we know which Monster Pack represents which werewolf? Colored studs on the monster head (eh)? Second problem is the apparent different meaning of "health" when it comes to Heroes and Monsters. With Heroes, "health" correlates to the amount of damage a monster can do (monster strength 2 == 2 health damage). But, with Monsters, the "health" means the amount of times they have to be killed (assuming the previous homebrew rule I mentioned). I wouldn't feel good about representing both types with the red cones - I'd want the Monster Pack to use grey cones instead, maybe.

Edited by Morbus Iff

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I like the first idea of the monster movement and the map making idea. I thought of another way to keep track of health or even to just "color code" multiples of the same monster. Just put the microfig on one corner of a 2x2 plate and fill the other three with studs depending on the amount of health he/it has. Or you could just use this for monsters to color code multiples. I have come up with some strength ratings for each character.

BARBARIAN=4

WIZARD=4

DRUID=4

THEIF=3

KNGIHT=5

RANGER=4

GOBLIN KING=4

GOBLIN GENERAL=3

GOBLIN GUARDIAN=2

GOBLIN WARRIOR=1

DARK DRUID=5

WEREWOLF=3

SPIDER=2

BAT=1

GOLEM LORD=6

GOLEM GUARDIAN=4

These are not final and are at most, rough drafts. Feel free to make suggestions.

Edited by pathfinder of doom

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Are the rules for the Heroica games online anywhere? I've been extremely interested in the games, but the general extreme die/random focus [read: kid-friendliness] of the previous LEGO games has kept me from just snapping them up impulsively without at least a review.

But the promise of an Advanced ruleset has me quite interested, and it something I'm likely to want to be a part of. My game history is more Heroclix level, so complicated but not too complicated. I think some sort of balance across Clixy mechanic-focus, DnD/Warhammer flavour-focus, liberally blended with LEGO fun-'n-fast-focus could result in some quality rules.

But, yeah, I can't contribute ideas until I can see the basic rules from which to grow the new ones from.

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I like the first idea of the monster movement and the map making idea. I thought of another way to keep track of health or even to just "color code" multiples of the same monster. Just put the microfig on one corner of a 2x2 plate and fill the other three with studs depending on the amount of health he/it has. Or you could just use this for monsters to color code multiples. I have come up with some strength ratings for each character.

Hrm… possible, but I fear the difficulty of getting a hard-pressed 2x2 plate off the 2x2 W 1 Knob floors. And it's not ideal for more-than-3 life (stacked studs?) or ultimate placement (you'd need a 2x2 space instead of just the 1x1 that they fit in now). As for the strength ratings: what do they mean when applied to the existing hero microfigs?

Are the rules for the Heroica games online anywhere?

heroica-fortaan-1

heroica-waldurk-1

Each set has a unique microfig or "extra" rule - the above are for Fortaan and Waldurk (2 of the 4 sets).

Edited by Morbus Iff

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The strength ratings are how much damage the hero or monster can take as well as how much damage its attacks do to the opposition. The ratings are based on my opinion on who would be more powerful than others. For example, the Golem Lord is the most powerful because that is how I imagine a giant hulking monster made of rock hard... well... rock. The theif is the weakest because I picture him to be swift and agile, but without a lot of armor or staying power. About the 2x2 base thing, it was just an idea and a rough one at that. We could definatley improve it. I did have an idea that when you defeat a monster and put it on your pack, you can then, later on in the game, unleash him onto other monsters or heros that stand in the way. Maybe this could occur by rolling a sheild or something similar.

@ IamWillGibson: Feel free to join in! It would be great to have more help!

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I haven't bought any of the games yet, and I'm wondering what the gold cone pieces are for? I was thinking, if they don't already do this, that each player can have up to four gold cones at a time, and that would be considered extra health or armour.

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I haven't bought any of the games yet, and I'm wondering what the gold cone pieces are for? I was thinking, if they don't already do this, that each player can have up to four gold cones at a time, and that would be considered extra health or armour.

They're used for gold pieces :) They can be placed randomly around the map or won through the result

of dice rolls on a treasure chest. They can then be used to purchase weapons from the weapons shop.

Edited by Morbus Iff

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They're used for gold pieces :) They can be placed randomly around the map or won through the result

of dice rolls on a treasure chest. They can then be used to purchase weapons from the weapons shop.

What do the weapons do? Does each character start off with nothing?

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Each weapon grants an ability to the user. The bow, for example, allows you to kill a monster 5 spaces away.

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There have been some good ideas in the thread, but I'm surprised no one has talked about adding new things into the existing game.

New monsters.

What about

scorpions and mummies from Rameses Pyramid

the skeletons from Ninjago

or for the adventurous,

the minotaur from Minotaurus

or the dragon from Lava Dragon

New Heroes

Ninjas anyone?

Perhaps some gladiators from Minotaurus

Potions and items

they've used red,yellow,blue and purple

that leaves orange and green (use the ones in Pyramid!)

Gold Telescopes from Rameses return

Crystal balls from Harry Potter Hogwarts

All the gems from Pirate Code.

Surely there are more ideas out there!

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Okay, I came up with Heroica: Advanced 2.0. Suggestions for improvements are greatly appreciated.

HEROICA: ADVANCED 2.0

In Heroica: Advanced 2.0, a certain level of complexity is added to the original game. For starters, every character is given a strength rating which represents a number of things. A new map system is introduced as well as a few new monster mechanics. Also, the default game is played in Battle Heroica mode so there is a monster player and a heroes player.

The strength rating on every character represents how much damage it can take before being defeated. It also is the amount of damage its combat attacks make. For example, if a Barbarian with a strength of 4 would cause 4 damage against enemies in combat. If he was damaged twice, his strength would reduce to 2. This means that his attacks would only do 2 damage instead of his normal 4. When a character loses all of his strength he is defeated and must stop to heal for as long as necessary.

When creating the map on which you will play, each player must take turns placing portions of the map on the playing surface. As an example, player A chooses a corner piece and places it on the area of play. Player B then takes a straight pathway and connects it to the previously placed piece. This continues until no more pathways can be placed or until you feel the map is big enough.

Each turn the monster player may nominate as many monsters to activate as there are heroes. This means that if the heroes player is controlling 2 heroes, that the monster player may only activate 2 monsters per turn.

OPTIONAL ADDITIONS

As an option, players may chose to capture the monsters they defeat and unleash them onto others later on in the game. When a player wishes to unleash a monster, he rolls the Lego dice. If the result is a sword, the monster is released into the game with 1 strength. If the result is a shield, the monster is released into the game with full strength (obviously it doesn’t matter which one you roll if the monster is only strength 1). The released monster is under the control of the player that unleashed it until it is captured by another. The second holder may unleash it as well. This may continue until the game is over. NOTE: Only heroes can capture monsters, other monsters cannot. Also, monsters cannot capture heroes and unleash them.

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There have been some good ideas in the thread, but I'm surprised no one has talked about adding new things into the existing game.

I don't think anyone is "forgetting" those ideas - I certainly think that there's plenty of room for expansion of the existing game, and I definitely do want to make stats for all the other micro-fig stuff from the other LEGO Games. With that said, however, adding new monsters, new heroes, new potions, new game boards, etc. isn't going to make the shipped rules any more enjoyable for me. It'd be like playing Tic-Tac-Toe with triangles instead of circles: it's an expansion, sure, but it's not an improvement. The stuff I'm focusing on now isn't going to stop anyone else from adding new monsters or heroes and, if they do, it'd only help make the world of Heroica larger and more enjoyable for everyone else ("advanced" ruleset or not).

Edited by Morbus Iff

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There have been some good ideas in the thread, but I'm surprised no one has talked about adding new things into the existing game.

New monsters.

What about

scorpions and mummies from Rameses Pyramid

the skeletons from Ninjago

or for the adventurous,

the minotaur from Minotaurus

or the dragon from Lava Dragon

New Heroes

Ninjas anyone?

Perhaps some gladiators from Minotaurus

Potions and items

they've used red,yellow,blue and purple

that leaves orange and green (use the ones in Pyramid!)

Gold Telescopes from Rameses return

Crystal balls from Harry Potter Hogwarts

All the gems from Pirate Code.

Surely there are more ideas out there!

I've though about using pieces from other games...especially the lava monster since that game is terrible (IMO)

Anyway, I think the only problem with adding more monsters at this point is that there is not enough room for variation in the monsters now. Adding a scorpion would be like adding another bat or spider or other power 1 monster.

To add variety to monsters, perhaps some should do maximum damage even when hurt and others do damage based on how many health they have left. Some monsters can also loose their ability to move a character back when hurt.

There's also the "1" roll in heroica which means the monster is defeated, the hero is pushed back one space and takes damage. Perhaps this result could be changed depending on the skill of the monster. Extremely skilled monsters do damage to the hero, medium skilled ones deal damage and take it, low skilled monsters just take damage.

This system would work better of lego started putting "playing cards" for the monsters and heroes in the sets.

Anyway, one last thing....there is an orange potion, it is the luck potion and it allows you to reroll the die. It's in the largest set. But I do like the idea of other potions. Perhaps a clear potion of invisibility which lest you sneak past a monster without being forced to fight it.

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Some ideas I've toyed with:

(A) Magic Doors/Squares. One issue we had with the Magic Doors is that playing two-player, we reached an impasse. We would each use our turn to remove the Magic Door blocking our path by opting to end our turn standing on the Magic Square-- but we would then move the Magic Door to block the other player from progressing. Since we were each trying to get to the same location, we just sat there trading the Magic Door back and forth.

Solution: When you step on a Magic Square, you move a Magic Door as normal. However, you then move the Magic Square to the location that the Magic Door was moved FROM.

(B) Points. We played a game and tied, with the same number of missions completed and the same amount of gold. Who won?

Solution: Everything's worth points at the end of the game:

- Each completed mission counts for 10 points

- Each monster killed counts for the number of points equal to their power

- Each remaining health point is worth 1 point

- Each gold piece is worth 2 points

- Each un-consumed item (keys, torches, potions) is worth 1 point

- Each purchased weapon is worth 4 points

© Parties. Similar to the previously suggested "hire-able" barbarians, you can acquire more party members by either hiring them (4 gold) or rescuing them (they start as an NPC somewhere on the board). New party members are kept on your Hero Pack (rather than moving around the board), and allow you to:

- Use that party member's special power when a "Shield" is rolled

- Receive 2 extra maximum health

- Carry 1 extra key, and one extra torch (normally restricted to one per Hero)

(D) Thief Ability. The Thief is kind of lame, considering that his special power is *equal* to the power of the dagger (each other Hero's ability is slightly better than the power of the corresponding weapon). A few options (probably just choose one to balance the game a bit better):

- Thief takes 2 gold when defeating a monster

- If standing next to a door at the start of his turn, the thief can attempt to pick the lock (roll shield or sword), or lose the turn if he fails

- Thieves don't take damage from treasure chests (they simply disarm the trap)

DaveE

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@ davee123: Those are some good ideas. I especially like the magic space rule. The only problem I see is that the "parties" idea seems a little over powered. It also seems a little too easy to acquire. How about starting the "party member" as an NPC and to acquire his help you must defeat him. As usuall he would have 4 health. I think this would make it a little more challenging to get such a boost in power. Another thing on the party members idea. Maybe you could be able to switch out your character during the game. This would eliminate the "use his special power on a sheild" rule, but it would be better (I think) to represent the party member instead of sticking him in your backpack.

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The only problem I see is that the "parties" idea seems a little over powered. It also seems a little too easy to acquire.

After playing a few times, it seemed rather difficult to acquire, honestly. Playing the full 4-game expansion as the Thief (who should get more gold than anyone else), I got a whopping 5 gold for the entire game, which seemed pretty low. Gold was basically very hard to come by (and only got enough towards the end of the game), and there wasn't ever a reason to spend several valuable turns in order to take a side-quest to pick some up. So I figured I'd make the party members pretty powerful.

But obviously, I haven't actually PLAYED with them, so maybe they are a bit much-- I have no idea. If so, you could always knock off 1 of the extra healths or make them cost 1 extra gold.

DaveE

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While making new rules adds more fun to the game, it is important to state what the goal/objective is because that determines whether or not there is balance between the different heroes.

Except for Draida Bay, you win a normal Heroica game by moving your hero into the target space or defeating the monster on the target space. This means that the ranger has an easier time defeating monsters at the expense of reaching the target space first. In Epic Heroica games, ties were broken by the amount of monsters defeated by a player and gold amassed by a player. The easiest way to keep track of who defeated a monster is by having all monsters die from 1 successful attack.

I'm not trying to spoil anyone's fun. It is just that new rules may need new goals for them to make sense. Are you designing rules in terms of a cooperative game where or a competitive game?

Edited by Arigomi

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