Ideas for trains in 2011

[CarrollFilms]

Remember that the Emerald Night is a semi-exclusive along the lines of, say, Cafe Corner, or the Imperial Ship.

The cargo train you mention is a full retail one.

Also, not just diesels. LEGO made some e-locs as well! And those are pretty cool too, and come with several cars. ;)

So my idea for the future is more e-locs!

I completely forgot about those, The Metroliner, and the Cargo Railway are very cool and beautiful, but I still think Diesel is better loioking, well e-locs are cool, especially the new Passenger train (looks nice) and the old white one. I think they are sleak and are good for speed. So I have changed my mind that both e-locs and Diesels are very cool and beautiful

[rday1982]

I completely forgot about those, The Metroliner, and the Cargo Railway are very cool and beautiful, but I still think Diesel is better loioking, well e-locs are cool, especially the new Passenger train (looks nice) and the old white one. I think they are sleak and are good for speed. So I have changed my mind that both e-locs and Diesels are very cool and beautiful

Steam will always be where it's at for me. If I wanted a diesel, I'd just build a square block up ontop of a 9V motor. :p

Well, I do like trains of all kinds so I'm probably being too harsh there, but there's something about a steam train that stirs the soul in a way that diesel locomotives seem to be unable to do. Perhaps it's just me, but I feel that LEGO really ought to do one steam and one diesel or electric set every 3-4 years, if they really want to capture the cashflow of both children and adults. I know I'd get the steam train every time they released a bew version, and I'd probably buy a couple of diesel locomotives as well. But they need to do them as full trains (ie: more than one coach. Three and a brake van at minimum), or they need to sell the loco and rolling stock independantly of other components. Now with that sort of setup, I'd probably end up buying a locomotive every so often, extra motors to help keep the whole thing moving, and a hell of a long train of coaches, with a brake van for the end. I'd be adding to the overall set all the time - it being much easier to justify a coach every few weeks or couple of months than a new train set with spare power adaptor, loco, curved track, etc. once every six months.

[Melfice]

I feel a selection of PF'ed classic trains would be nice - basically it would be famous trains from all points of the globe, England, USA, Australia, etc., an excellent addition to any layout - now who would not want a 'City Of Truro' eh ?

I'm a conformist! !

Ooh... brilliant idea!

I've got the suggestion for the Dutch entry already! (Which really is a no-brainer)

The iconic NS 1600/1800 series of E-locs!

EDIT: Hmm... might actually be more profitable if they did that in midi-scale.

Since full-scale would cost too much, for what could be a very meager sale for specific models. And micro-scale would be too small to make it look good.

Unless they went with a sort of PaB format, where you custom order those models.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Melfice

[fred67]

The problem: LEGO Trains are a niche market, that makes little profit for LEGO.

Promoting such a line is a liability, because marketing is not cheap.

Not marketing, however, ensure that LEGO Trains remains a niche market.

There you go... we've had this discussion before, but I think there's a disconnect between LEGO marketing and reality.

I mean... look, let's face it, LEGO was on it's way to bankruptcy until they got the Star Wars license, and then that license sold itself... obviously there was something not working well at TLG at that time. The 9V line was a fantastic line that should have been marketed towards model railroaders as well as kids... I never saw a single ad for LEGO (that I recall) in any of the train magazines I bought, yet that's what ended my "dark ages," when I switched to LEGO 9V from N-Scale... but why? Because I stumbled across a set on sale at Sam's Club, not because I knew LEGO sold trains.

And after that... nothing. I had no idea they sold other trains online until years later (I even bought two sets on sale because I thought that was all I would ever get), and it was a couple of years after that that we finally got a LEGO store near me... and by the time I went there, they were already phasing it out. I got a few things... but I didn't even know it was being phased out, so buy the time I knew it, no more straight track or engines... no, I wasn't a Eurobricks member, I was just an average model railroader, and that's the problem - LEGO is getting business from us because we are so involved in it now that we know what's happening months (or years) before hand, a typical parent or LEGO buying child doesn't.

So talk about self-fulfilling prophecy... had they released cars along with the Emerald Night, they would have probably sold more cars separately than engines (because for every one that sold individually, people like me would have bought two or three cars), but they didn't. Everyone, including LEGO ambassadors were like "it's not going to happen because they don't sell well," so everyone bought two or three Emerald Nights (or more) for the cars, or they came up with their own (or found some of the excellent car designs posted here)... so if LEGO tries to sell cars now, they're a day late and a dollar short, and then they'll be like "see, they didn't sell!"

One of the reasons they cite for the change from 9V was that it was too expensive, yet both sets released this year are as much or more than earlier comparable 9V sets, and while I'm aware of inflation, a number of changes were meant to keep the costs down and they haven't... remember the HUGE savings on track? Now, this is not a whine about the loss of 9V, I understand why they switched... but while a lot of AFOLs might grow money on trees, I don't... and LEGO is more expensive than ever despite cost cutting and stagnant inflation (and occasionally deflation) in the U.S... I don't know how some of you guys do it, but I can't buy DBM trains.

Moreover, even the new sets... I'm interested in them, but when I look at what you get, for the cost, I'm not really impressed... I would rather buy a modular building for my layout than either of these two new sets, for the money.

So... as far as I'm concerned, if parts are still available, then I'll roll my own over time... or use the RailBricks instructions, or Sava's instructions (I bought the first set this past spring). I may just be done buying train sets from LEGO.

[rday1982]

Were LEGO to relaunch the 9v line, aim it at model railroaders as well as AFOLs, TFOLs, and KFOLs, then support it with proper marketing and decent scope for expansion (such as offering sets of perhaps two or three extra cars), I think they'd experience an upsurge in demand.

Until I started some pretty intensive internet searching three months ago, I had no idea there was such an extensive AFOL train community, nor that there were things like LEGO train exhibitions, and LEGO train clubs. I can't be alone in this. Surely there are plenty of other potential AFOL train builders who don't have a clue that there's a massive community out there.

With the current thinking at LEGO, I forsee the train line dying out within a few years. It'll go the way of the monorail, and it's not going to be because there's no market for it. It's because the market is not being correctly exploited or catered to.

The best way for LEGO to sell trains would be as follows:

Track:

9v track available in packs of ten straights or 16 curves. Points available in sets of two. Crossover track available in sets of two. Elevated track supports available in sets of ten (ie: supports for ten bits of elevated track) at a height of 14 studs. Packs of parts for making a full incline and descent from a 14 stud height.

Power:

Regulator and power supply with clip cables available individually.

9v motor with decorative sides available individually.

Trains:

A european diesel loco. Perhaps similar to the yellow Rail Runner.

An american diesel loco. Something like the Super Chief or the BNSF.

A german steam train, one with the red running gear and black body.

An american steam train, like Sava's Allhegney (however it's spelled).

A european diesel/electric passenger loco like the ICE

All nicely detailed, nice and big... sold without the 9v motor, but with dummy motor bogies... and without associated rolling stock.

Rolling Stock:

European passenger cars for the diesel/electric in sets of three.

American passenger cars for the diesel in sets of three.

Steam-era passenger cars in sets of three.

Brake van/Caboose.

Various individual freight cars.

Parts pack for MOC freight cars.

Tanker waggon.

Maintenence of Way vehicles... perhaps a crane car, a flatbed car with construction vehicles, and a track repair car.

A starter train set could be produced by combining a loco, some cars, track, a motor, and a regulator. A combination pack of motor and regulator could also be produced.

Buildings and trackside scenery:

Large station

Goods/Switching yard

Engine Shed

Roundhouse

Small station

Level crossing

Minifigs:

Train driver pack

Train staff pack

Railway workers pack

By changing the designs every 2-3 years, they would ensure that people bought more locos, cars, and scenery/buildings to keep their collection complete.

This is similar to the way that traditional model railways are sold, and similar enough to the way that the components of LEGO city are sold that I don't think it would cause LEGO any problems. If these items were stocked by the major LEGO retailers and by the LEGO stores, displayed prominently, and given appropriate marketing, kids wouldn't be able to get enough of them. Not only is it LEGO, it's something that doesn't need batteries, and it freaki' WORKS! It's better than having a train set, 'cause this is a train set you can take apart and rebuild every day!

By aiming it at kids as an alternative to model railways, and by selling the components of the theme as outlined, LEGO would be able to shift more stock at the same time as catering to both KFOLs and AFOL train builders. They might also be able to grab some of the market share for existing model railway fans.

It would also require appropriate and fairly agressive marketing though. I remember as a kid, Xmas time would be when LEGO advertisements started filling the TV, with trains, planes, technic creations, and pirate ships assembling themselves and playing out various scenarios. LEGO never seemed to have a problem shifting stock back then. It was big, bold, exciting, and full of possibilities.

By returning to the strategy of making the train theme a fully integrated part of their marketing and advertising, LEGO would be saying "this is a product that we are confident you will enjoy", rather than seemingly hiding it behind their licensed products.

The train theme could also offer opportunities for licensed themes. Indiana Jones could have a steam train, station, and many exciting chase scenes. Batman could fight anybody from Two Face to The Joker on a speeding train. Spiderman and Harry Potter have already had train sets... and a gloriously detailed Hogwarts Express and Kings Cross station would certainly sell to both HP fans and train builders. If every theme had some sort of crossover with the trains product line, then train track, motors, power regulators, and locomotives all suddenly become cross-theme products. Batman's thrilling encounter with Catwoman atop the Emerald Night whilst speeding through Gotham towards the broken bridge suddenly becomes something that KFOLs are saving their pocket money to achieve, as well as something that AFOL's are boasting about having created here on Eurobricks.

If LEGO were to adopt this sort of strategy, they could cross-sell trains through ALL their themes. Licenced brands, LEGO originals, there's no LEGO theme that won't somehow incorporate a train except for Star Wars.

Without adopting this sort of strategy, I feel that LEGO are dooming their train line to eventual extinction. It's clear to me that the higher-ups within the company are more focussed on milking margins than trying to increase sales by improving playability and excitement. This will in the long term simply drive down the brand value and result in the company eventually reporting dismal sales year after year, before finally folding and allowing companies like MegaBlocks to fill their market niche.

I wonder if MegaBlocks might be interested in the idea of bringing out a 9v train line? Perhaps I should contact them.

Edited August 9, 2010 by rday1982

[Rijkvv]

@Melfice: I prefer a NS 1200 for the Dutch one. Unique, not a copy of a French engine.

It might be an idea, an iconic train from every part of the world. However, every country has it's own typical trains. I think for the Netherlands, next to the 1200 (and partly 1600 and 1800, I have to admit, they are well-known I think) would be the Mat 54, ICM (not modernized, maybe with a working walk-through nose), Plan V, VIRM, DD-AR, Dutch-Swiss TEE DMU etc.

But well, let's stay with engines, because EMU's or DMU's would be too expensive to collect from every country. Ideas from the very few countries I know trains from:

Netherlands: A NS 1200, IMHO the most beautiful non-steam loc ever. The fact they were in service till 2009, after 58 years of service, says enough. For a more modern one, I would agree with Melfice about the 1600/1800 or 1700 (almost identical on the outside). A steam engine would be nice as well, maybe a NS 3900 or a NS 6300, although I don't think they are well-known outside the Netherlands.

Germany: A V200 or a Baureihe 103. Both beautiful engines. I'm not very familiar with modern locs outside the Netherlands. Steam engines from Germany: well, they have many well-known examples, I leave that to the people who knows the differences.

Belgium: HLD 52. Without any doubt. Before the changed cabin. For Luxembourg the same answer, I believe they drove in Luxembourgh with number CFL 1600, but I'm not sure.

UK: I would say the Flying Scotsman, but since the Emerald Night looks very similar, I chose for the Mallard. But please TLG: use round buffers for a steamer the next time! For a modern one I choose the Class 66. Used in multiple countries, but It was designed for the British tracks, and I still have the feeling that it's a British design (it's a US design).

US: well, the Big Boy is one of the very few American trains/locs I know. But I think that's way too big to run at an average layout. The others I know are already been relased as sets.

[Tweak @ Brick]

It bet that there won't be any regular train sets sold in 2011.

But I could well imagine that the 90 Euros set that appeared this and last year (10194 Emerald Night and 10213 Space Shuttle) could well be again a train set in 2011. Imo the most likely is a new engine shed - similar to the exclusive awesome 10027 from 2003 - but perhaps and hopefully this time in a modern architectual style.

Klaus-Dieter

If you are really into train-scenery you can't do without a proper operating turntable next to your loc-shed, like the ones you sometimes see in H0-scale.

[dj B]

I wanna see those flexible rails come out in a set so i dont have to buy the whole thing. I would also LOVE to see more train stations because it only comes with one, and although it looks good, I still want more for the other stops the train makes. Also, an ICE 3 would be nice.

[locoworks]

It's only that due to their incompetence. If they started to market the trains as an alternative to traditional model railways, and began to listen to what AFOL and TFOL requirements are, they could end up opening up new markets, and grabbing a huge slice of revenue from people like Bachmann, Hornby, Lionel and Graham Farish.

Of course, based on past performance, I assume that LEGO will continue to mismanage the hell out of the LEGO train brand.

i don't think so, it may be nice for you , and me to be honest because i was bought up on lego and hornby and scalextric. but many/most model railroaders are looking for 'scale' models. the detail and accuracy is getting better and better. i don't see lego suddenly coming up with a range of track like peco OO and a range of accurate looking trains. to get a reasonable accurate loco would need lots of special parts which isn't going to happen. as said elsewhere the train is part of the city rather than its own entity despite having its own 'theme'. lego won't ever be competing with model railway producers. there may be some novelty interest, but very few will stop 'proper' railway modelling for lego trains.

[MightySlickPancake]

*welcome to eurobricks dj B.*

Hey,

I would like to see lego try an 8 stud wide model for us AFOL's. Prehaps a UK class 66 (not that good on foreign trains)? I hope lego choose something like emerald night. But if not, more AFOL related sets.

Thanks, CB

[Biggie Smals :)]

I wanna see more locomotives. Like a blue and white train. I would love to see that.

[______]

A Santa Fe remake would be cool, like for AFOL's

[The Yellow Brick]

Just found this in Google images and I thought lego could make something like this as a exclusive set -

[Legoist]

I think the Maersk train will be the only train set for 2011.

But either way, if I could make a wish I'd like a creator set with train parts, similar to the hobby train of a few years ago (possibly in any colours other than red or white) but sold in retail shop. Something with ~1000 pieces for no more than 100e, or otherwise smaller.

[Mrlegoninja]

For some reason, I've always wanted a full cargo center. Perhaps with to track running in the middle, and one side with the cargo aand the other side with the office and crane.

[stacker9000]

I completely agree with you Legoninja! To me,a train station goes with the passenger train,so we definitely need a cargo center for cargo trains! I like the office idea,but I'm not sure about the crane,I'd guess it might work depending on where/how it was positioned. I do think it should include a couple forklifts,loading ramps,and lots of various items/containers for loading.

In regard to Lego marketing/sales for trains,I think Lego should create a "standard starter set" train set that is the minimum pieces needed to build a simple train with track. It should be priced $70-$90,similar to the TS and HP trains but with less detail. This is what I used to consider the passenger train set,until it jumped up in cost.

And my last point is,the only places I have seen the train sets is, Toys R US and LEGO stores,maybe a cheaper set might make it to more retailers,and maybe they should be put on the shelves beside model railroad sets so parents considering a train set for their kids can see Lego makes train sets too!

[mikka says]

hi, im just new to the forum

and just had my first purchase getting back into the line, the emerald night.

Lego i can say is trying their hardest to appease the market with such a beast :D

but. one thing i'd love to see is a Power functions Metroliner, released for the system. And to have it priced like the rest of the already existing train line would be an exciting edition to the range. classic sets seem to scream to be re-released.

another idea for an exclusive would be a small power functions tank engine, something diminutive and catchy to the brand. with 2 or 3 wagons it could be an alternative to a huge pacific and modern stock. :D

just my 2c

[peterab]

but. one thing i'd love to see is a Power functions Metroliner, released for the system. And to have it priced like the rest of the already existing train line would be an exciting edition to the range. classic sets seem to scream to be re-released.

The metroliner has already been re-released once, so I doubt we'll see it again. To change it to power functions would require new instructions so an added expense and I've read re-releases have not enjoyed good sales.

another idea for an exclusive would be a small power functions tank engine, something diminutive and catchy to the brand. with 2 or 3 wagons it could be an alternative to a huge pacific and modern stock. :D

just my 2c

This would be a good idea IMHO. Something like the old 4.5V engines, with a little modernization, but retaining the simple drive gear so it makes a good toy for kids. Add a couple of small carriages and you have a great small train.

[Jargo]

Only train I want is a subway/underground train. As cool as cargo or intercity trains are, I need something for local travel in my city beyond the bus and taxi. Yes there's a tram now but frankly I've always loved underground trains. My favourite is the current London underground with it's arched shape. I suppose that might be a little difficult to achieve in minifig scale and still be fun to play with. I'd buy any underground train though.

[Pingles]

Speculation like this is interesting, especially with niche markets.

It's easy to overestimate the sales value of a market like Lego Train users when reading a forum OF Lego Train users.

I wonder if sales of specialty sets like the Emerald Night and Maersk are anything compared to casual Lego City users deciding to try out the Cargo or Passenger sets.

As a company it's probably tough to balance pleasing the small, hardcore crowd while at the same time not wasting too many resources on what is likely a small financial segment for them.

[medib]

I read some of the comments here... some are mildly amusing especially the comments about the monorails and 9V track.

You probably wont see the return of either...

like was said the moulds of the monorail elements were destroyed, plus, the manufacturer of those monorail motors is gone

and producing them inhouse would be insanely expensive.

As for 9V track, the profit margin isnt that high, so why should Lego produce it...

I have a 2006 Shop@Home catalogue that I regularly look at and see that there are a handful of rolling stock available to buy

individually (Intercity Train Engine, Intercity Train Passenger Car, BNSF Engine, TTX stock cars, My Own Train caboose and My Own Train green Passenger Car (if I remember correctly)...and wish that Lego did more of the similar items.

or... they could just increase the amount of pallet for Design by Me as was suggested by some, so we dont bang our heads against the

wall...

my 2 cents.

[Rustie86]

like was said the moulds of the monorail elements were destroyed.

I've never understood the reason this was done. Can anyone shed some light on that?

[LAKAbricks]

like was said the moulds of the monorail elements were destroyed, plus, the manufacturer of those monorail motors is gone

and producing them inhouse would be insanely expensive.

Taking into account that LEGO nowadays produces all sorts of "non-standard" bricks, and that small electric engines most likely can be made cheaper than 20 years, I guess it shouldn't be a big problem to make a new monorail. Though it might not be compatible with the old ones. - But if TLG should wish to do it (is there a market?), that's the question.

[peterab]

I've never understood the reason this was done. Can anyone shed some light on that?

After a time the molds wear out, at that point the old ones are destroyed to avoid anybody else using them (and injuring TLGs reputation with bad parts). If the potential exists for a new mold to be profitable it will be re-made. In the case of the monorail that wasn't the case.

[Gareth]

After a time the molds wear out, at that point the old ones are destroyed to avoid anybody else using them (and injuring TLGs reputation with bad parts). If the potential exists for a new mold to be profitable it will be re-made. In the case of the monorail that wasn't the case.

If that's the case how did 'Enlighten' get moulds for the brown track that they produce.? or have they just made a cast off an existing rail.