MOC: Santa Fe Western 4-4-0 Locomotive

[WesternOutlaw]

First, I'd like to thank Train Tech members BMW, SavaTheAggie, and others who posted your recommendations for improving my recent Santa Fe 4-4-0. Last night, I decided to get busy and modify the locomotive as I read some of your tips. As I found myself removing a few plates here, and a few bricks there, I soon had the entire locomotive gutted to a point of starting from scratch, something that I now appreciate.

I was particularly inspired by an image that BMW had shared of one of his favorite locomotives, the Reno Circa 1910. With it's light grey boiler and black and gold color scheme, I thought it would serve as the perfect inspiration model with my existing pieces. Spending a lot of time trying to improve on areas that you guys mentioned, I am now quite pleased with my latest 4-4-0 locomotive, the Santa Fe Western #4 (name and number purely fictitious, but based on the Reno 1910):

[lightningtiger]

bring it on 'The Brickster' - AWESOME MOC train !

Looks like it has a bright coat of pretty paint on it.

Love the details on this one.

I'm a conformist! 'The Brickster' !

[Ashi Valkoinen]

When will be this loco released in shops? I don't like steam locos but I'll buy it. ;) :D

I like your Wild West MOCs, however, I didn't write to your topics. They are pretty, good looking MOCs.

Wheels under tender could be easely replaced with 9V motor? Or need some changes?

[Captain Zuloo]

Woot! Spot on TheBrickster! This train has certainly improved a whole heap since the first version that you shared (although that one was cool too)! Even if you hadn't lowered the cab, the colours would have made it look lower anyway I think. Looks much better, and fits the detail of your first wagon really nicely. I can't wait to see this project finished. Do you plan to power it in any way?

[DaCheese]

Fantastic! Looks much better. Just those cylinders and side rods to get connected now.

[MetroiD]

Ah! Finally! I was sure you'd end up modding that loc, and obviously it all paid off. What a wonderful MOC! Could we please please have a pic of the train with the Hopper attached to?

[WesternOutlaw]

Thanks guys! I think this new train looks 100% better thanks to all constructive feedback.

Here's another shot in Train Town with the hopper MD. I'd like to build a nice boxcar now.

Do you plan to power it in any way?

I started the tender with a 9V motor, but wanted a longer base. I ended up scrapping the motor just adding standard wheels. I suppose it does need power though.

I also discovered some sort of design flaw with the wheels. It doesn't take curves very well, and I'm not sure why - something to do with the use of the little wheels in the front perhaps. I'm not sure, but need to fix it before powering. Perhaps some of you who have experience with steam locomotives might know what I'm doing wrong.

[Captain Zuloo]

Now I don't speak from experience, but perhaps it's because there are 2 non-turning drivers at the back. That would mean that when the train gets to a curve in the track, the front wheels want to turn and the back wheels want to keep going straight. For instance, if you take a wagon (with a two-wheel bogie at each end) and you fix one bogie so it doesn't turn, you'll encounter the same problem. To remedy this, try swapping the front flanged driver with a blind driver and see if it fixes the problem. Try it out and let me know, I'd be interested to see if I'm right or not.

[Rick]

Congrats TheBrickster. This looks so much better than the initial loc you posted and the tender really completes it. The yellow works really well combined with the black and the whole front of the loc looks so much more 'finished'.

[mendes]

Its looks great now. I think the addition of the yellow bricks to the boiler and the stickers/decals really have improved it.

[WesternOutlaw]

Try it out and let me know, I'd be interested to see if I'm right or not.

Thanks Cap'n Z. I was thinking the same thing myself, and tried it last night. I tried using the blind drivers in the front. It did eliminate a little bit of the problem, but not much. Then I tried the blind drivers in the back - same issue. I'm not sure what to do, but it can't take a curve. In looking at locomotives by Tony and other steam train builders, they use four flanged drivers and the little wheels in the front as well. I'm not sure why mine doesn't seem to be working. I did remove the rods as well. Perhaps it's the little wheels? I'll have to keep tinkering.

The yellow works really well combined with the black and the whole front of the loc looks so much more 'finished'.

Thanks Rick. I love looking at it now. That first model just wasn't right, but thanks to the tips, I was able to build this. For a very basic builder like me, I'm very happy with it.

I think the addition of the yellow bricks to the boiler and the stickers/decals really have improved it.

I honestly never thought decals could make a big difference (as one who hates stickers), but they really do. Thanks. Oh, and BTW Mendes: I love those vintage trains in your signature. It would be great to see some images or a review of any of those trains wagons.

[Yoshi648]

Thanks Cap'n Z. I was thinking the same thing myself, and tried it last night. I tried using the blind drivers in the front. It did eliminate a little bit of the problem, but not much. Then I tried the blind drivers in the back - same issue. I'm not sure what to do, but it can't take a curve. In looking at locomotives by Tony and other steam train builders, they use four flanged drivers and the little wheels in the front as well. I'm not sure why mine doesn't seem to be working. I did remove the rods as well. Perhaps it's the little wheels? I'll have to keep tinkering.

Do the small wheels up front have one or two turning points? I've noticed that in order for locomotives/long cars they need to have two turning points. Some of the longer train cars (like the Metroliner Club Car) have two bogies that allow them to turn. However, since obviously you can't turn the driving wheels from the train itself, you have to give two points to the smaller wheels. Look at the instructions for the Emerald Night (page 56). See the dark gray Technic 1X3 Liftarm? Notice how it gives the front wheels two points to turn so it can go through curves. Also check out RailBricks Issue 6 (page 32) as it shows some more examples. That should probably solve your problem. Other then that you have a very nice train coming along and I look forward to seeing it finished.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Yoshi648

[mendes]

Oh, and BTW Mendes: I love those vintage trains in your signature. It would be great to see some images or a review of any of those trains wagons.

Sure. I wasn't sure there was a great deal of interest in that era until now but I'll have a go when I get a chance. In the meantime here's a youtube upload I made a couple of months ago:

[Anders Nolberger]

I like this version very much. It look faboulus with the hopper!

[Captain Zuloo]

To continue on with what Yoshi648 said, what is the turning mechanism on the front bogie? My initial thoughts were that removing a flanged wheel would allow it to work in the same way as a 2-axle car, although after building a MOC-up of your loco's wheels, I see that isn't the problem. It does indeed have to do with the front bogie, and Yoshi648 is correct with his fix. Use the same mechanism that runs 10194. The wheels do indeed need to be able to point lefot and right, but they also need to be able to move side to side in order to negotiate curves. I didn't try this with 2 flanged drivers, but I think it would work.

In short, 10194 front bogie turning mechanism = problem gone.

[peterab]

To continue on with what Yoshi648 said, what is the turning mechanism on the front bogie? My initial thoughts were that removing a flanged wheel would allow it to work in the same way as a 2-axle car, although after building a MOC-up of your loco's wheels, I see that isn't the problem. It does indeed have to do with the front bogie, and Yoshi648 is correct with his fix. Use the same mechanism that runs 10194. The wheels do indeed need to be able to point lefot and right, but they also need to be able to move side to side in order to negotiate curves. I didn't try this with 2 flanged drivers, but I think it would work.

In short, 10194 front bogie turning mechanism = problem gone.

Yeah, that should work, but there are other options to. In principal you run into trouble when you have more than two axles or two axles which are too far apart. Due to the tight radius of LEGO track 'too far' is about 14 studs for standard size wheels.

Some of the possible solutions are; flangless wheels (Used a lot on large steam engine drivers), allow an axle to slide (used often on C bogies), allow a bogie to rotate (this would work on the front end of your train, and may allow the pistons to stay fixed in place), allow the bogie to float and turn (suggested above and used on EN).

In the case of your train, I'd try a rotating front bogie, and a flangeless driver on the back wheel. You need one solution for each 'set' of wheels as it were, otherwise the position taken by one set will still result in the second set causeing friction on the rails. The reason I chose these options is you may be able to get the small wheels to rotate around pistons fixed to the body, and therefore add working drive rods. If this isnt important to you the EN solution with or without a blind driver should be OK to, though the front of the engine will hang further out around curves, and you'll probably have to fit the pistons higher to clear the bogie or fit them too the bogie.

BTW I really like the look of this redesign, it's as much better than the original, than the original was of your previous work (not that previous engines were bad, but it was far less original buildwise than these).

[SavaTheAggie]

The problem with old locomotives like this is that the drivers are very far removed from the pony truck, and there isn't anything under the boiler in the original locomotive that would allow you to hide the connection. The solution I came up with for my 4-4-0 isn't perfect, but has served me well over the years.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/savatheaggie/...57600864085687/

The pony truck simply floats under the boiler in curves, pivoting and sliding under the smokebox.

--Tony

[CommanderFox]

I really like this train Brickster!

The colour scheme is very nice, and the designe of the train is nice aswell.

Your custom decals are great!

Great job!

CommanderFox

[BMW]

Splendid. .. Looking very nice now!

- BMW

[WesternOutlaw]

Thanks al lot for the feedback and the building tips guys. I'm going to try Tony's design for the front wheels and see if that works. It looks like a pretty easy modification to incorporate. I must admit that I never thought building these train wheels would be so tricky. It will be interesting to see how the Toy Story train is designed.

[peterab]

I must admit that I never thought building these train wheels would be so tricky.

Welcome to realistic Steam trains :classic: The reason why you so often see pictures of the running gear of train mocs on Brickshelf and flickr is it normally takes some time to get it right, so people share the successful techniques.

[WesternOutlaw]

I tried Tony's technique this evening and that did the trick. In fact, I was able to add the two flanged wheels again which provides more stability toward the back end. At first, I thought the front wheel assembly would just slide out from under the train, but rather, it slides when needed around curves, then slides back nicely. Great idea Tony - so thank you for sharing that excellent tip.

I also added a 9V motor to the tender and now the train moves nicely on its own (except for a little squeaking from the smaller wheels up front). The train doesn't seem to have a lot of traction, but I suppose that's due to the 9V motor on the tender. In any case, I'm very happy with the progress and I may be adding another car very soon.

[Captain Zuloo]

The train doesn't seem to have a lot of traction

Perhaps try adding some weights inside the boiler of your loco, it may give the wheels some more traction. Pleased to hear it is running under its own steam.

[WesternOutlaw]

Thanks for the tip Z.

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I've been doing some photo editing lately with various images from the western United States and thought I'd share this recent image. When creating images for my Grave Stone collection, it's much easier because they're black and white with lots of shaded areas - not much thought as to which looks better or the need to remove objects from the image. Using color photographs is much more difficult and requires heavier editing.