Emerald Night Extra cars

[MrTools]

Today i finished putting my new Emerald express together and noticed a lot of extra stickers, some marked second and third (most likely for more cars) and also the numbers 1-9 (two of each number) Does anyone know if there will be any attatchments released for the set or would i have to order the parts for another car.

[prateek]

I don't think there is any word on these "expansion packs" you have in mind, so I think that you'll have to use BL or something.

[Cooper]

From what has been posted previously here on Eurobricks, there will be no expansion packs. As I recall Jamie Berard (LEGO designer of the Emerald Night) says as much in the "Behind the Helm" interview that Eurobricks did this past October.

Hit bricklink now and don't look back. FWIW, the more expensive parts are the tan window frames (don't forget the glass), the grey curved slopes that make up the roof, the wheel assemblies, and the couplers.

That's what I did. and I haven't regretted it one bit. Actually, after starting off just wanting more of the EN coaches, I jumped off into the deep end and started building 7-wide MOCs that turned into a complete train.

[dhaas06]

Or, if you have the cash flow and are familiar with selling on eBay, you could go my route and buy several copies of 10194 and sell the extra locomotives and tenders online. They are worth about 60% of the purchase price, making it relatively affordable to put together a full train. I too was sad to discover that TLG would not release any more carriages, but in the end, it will be a lot more special to show off a train that I actually created on my own. I'm in the process of modifying six different types of carriages, and it's a lot of fun to blend the official Lego exterior style with interiors of my own that are far more detailed and unique than the original one.

[Duq]

Dare I say you could try and come up with your own design? I think it's know as a 'MOC' around here...

[Helmantel]

Or, if you have the cash flow and are familiar with selling on eBay, you could go my route and buy several copies of 10194 and sell the extra locomotives and tenders online. They are worth about 60% of the purchase price, making it relatively affordable to put together a full train. I too was sad to discover that TLG would not release any more carriages, but in the end, it will be a lot more special to show off a train that I actually created on my own. I'm in the process of modifying six different types of carriages, and it's a lot of fun to blend the official Lego exterior style with interiors of my own that are far more detailed and unique than the original one.

That's what I did. I bought three for 80 Euro each (discounted price at an online dutch shop) and sold two locomotives for about 70 Euro each. At the Swedish S@H, they're 1199 SEK (~115 Euro) and they were out of stock at the time, which is probalby why I got a good price.

[LisasPapa]

Hi,

I add a self constructed boxcar to my emerald.

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=413106 found more in the readme near by I also added an lxf file for the LEGO Digital Designer.

Also I ask direct at lego.com if it is possible to get a extra car alone. The answer was negative :-( maybe some more should ask at lego.com.

Regards

Lars

[Brickimad]

Hi,

I add a self constructed boxcar to my emerald.

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=413106 found more in the readme near by I also added an lxf file for the LEGO Digital Designer.

Also I ask direct at lego.com if it is possible to get a extra car alone. The answer was negative :-( maybe some more should ask at lego.com.

Regards

Lars

It really annoys me that Lego never seems to push a product. There is scope for people to add extra coaches to the EN, but why don't they (Lego) release just the carriage set? Won't be hard, as all you need is a box, as the instructions are already done.

The Enlighten Trains, you can order any amount of each. I have now a whole scale setup of the Oxford Train here.

C'mon Lego, pull your socks up!

I don't know...

[CopMike]

It really annoys me that Lego never seems to push a product. There is scope for people to add extra coaches to the EN, but why don't they (Lego) release just the carriage set? Won't be hard, as all you need is a box, as the instructions are already done.

The Enlighten Trains, you can order any amount of each. I have now a whole scale setup of the Oxford Train here.

C'mon Lego, pull your socks up!

I don't know...

1. TLG don´t want the attention going away from buying 10194, a.k.a competing with "themself".

2. The planning for sets are usually a 1-2 year circle, there´s no room in the current program.

3. 10194 is a one-time set, meaning that it´s not in a line like the old 9V or RC. Think of it as the Beetle or Imperial Flagship.

[Legoist]

It really annoys me that Lego never seems to push a product. There is scope for people to add extra coaches to the EN, but why don't they (Lego) release just the carriage set? Won't be hard, as all you need is a box, as the instructions are already done.

Me I still don't understand why the Emerald Night came with a wagon. It makes no sense to sell a set like this, one huge locomotive (the tender is pretty much part of the locomotive) that is twice as long as the only carriage it comes with. A carriage which is not particularly innovative in design, but is based only on the "wow factor" of its colour, and new windows pieces in tan, which you aren't going to find anywhere else if you want more carriages... If it had been the locomotive only, no one would have ever complained that it didn't have carriages: it would have been just a continuation of the recent habit of releasing unmotorized locomotive sets targeted at AFOL, like the Santa Fé and the BNSF locomotives. The Santa Fé had carriages, but sold separately, and this was absolutely the best and most obvious thing to do. People who wanted the locomotive didn't have to buy carriages, and those who wanted them they just picked how many. With the EN either way you have to bother about either reselling the excess locomotives, or hunting the 2nd hand market for extra carriages. So they simply should have made either only the EN locomotive with tender, or made the carriage a separate set.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Legoist

[Cwetqo]

1. TLG don´t want the attention going away from buying 10194, a.k.a competing with "themself".

2. The planning for sets are usually a 1-2 year circle, there´s no room in the current program.

3. 10194 is a one-time set, meaning that it´s not in a line like the old 9V or RC. Think of it as the Beetle or Imperial Flagship.

1. I can understand that and it seems that this is the main reason for such a decision

2. Planning? Car is already made, instructions exist and there is no need for new parts, so this is really not a good excuse (besides that that some financial manager limited number of lego direct sets for each years)

3. I agree, but those two look complete and 10194 not. It looks like a starter-set, which is just waiting for cars to be added. I myself bought just the locomotive and tender (which are cheap today, look at point 1), because train with one car looks uncomplete and I rather added my own cars.

[Brickimad]

Me I still don't understand why the Emerald Night came with a wagon. It makes no sense to sell a set like this, one huge locomotive (the tender is pretty much part of the locomotive) that is twice as long as the only carriage it comes with. A carriage which is not particularly innovative in design, but is based only on the "wow factor" of its colour, and new windows pieces in tan, which you aren't going to find anywhere else if you want more carriages... If it had been the locomotive only, no one would have ever complained that it didn't have carriages: it would have been just a continuation of the recent habit of releasing unmotorized locomotive sets targeted at AFOL, like the Santa Fé and the BNSF locomotives. The Santa Fé had carriages, but sold separately, and this was absolutely the best and most obvious thing to do. People who wanted the locomotive didn't have to buy carriages, and those who wanted them they just picked how many. With the EN either way you have to bother about either reselling the excess locomotives, or hunting the 2nd hand market for extra carriages. So they simply should have made either only the EN locomotive with tender, or made the carriage a separate set.

I agree with that. Release the engine and tender only and offer the carriage as a seperate entity. Then if you don't want the coach, and make your own - you can and keeps the price down. But if you want to, buy the engine and one or 10 coaches as well. Also, I think the PF is rubbish and the battery pack/wires and the new rubbish track is, well rubbish. It makes so much noise, slow, and I don't think the lego plastic bushes where everything runs will last very long, compared to a 9v motor unit.

[Helmantel]

I understand that the Santa Fe cars were sold at large discounts (wasn't into Lego at the time) which is probably what Jamie Berard was referring to when saying that seperate cars didn't do well in the past. Since this commercial failure occured in the middle of the financial crisis at Lego, management has probably become reluctive when it comes to the release of train sets. The 10183 Hobby Train set was also sold at half price after a while, so I guess that one didn't too well either. I can imagine that they said something like: OK, you can design a train, but just one and it better be a success!

Had Lego been as commercially succesfull in the early part of the past decade as it is now, they probably had forgotten all about the Santa Fe cars not selling well and just remembered how much money they were making back then

[Legoist]

I understand that the Santa Fe cars were sold at large discounts (wasn't into Lego at the time) which is probably what Jamie Berard was referring to when saying that seperate cars didn't do well in the past.

I don't want to derail the discussion to another topic, but this really surprise me. Those Santa Fé cars are being bought for very high prices on the 2nd hand market. It could be that one reason for that is exactly that there weren't many produced at the end, but today definitely there are lot of people who want those carriages and pay lots of money for them.

I really don't know anything about how many sets are sold by TLG, but I just think that the sale/discount policy is more complicated than we think, and probably largely unpredictable even to TLG itself

[CopMike]

I dont´know the whole story but I know a bit, and you can listen to it or keep ignoring it & and do a closed circle argument.

Me I still don't understand why the Emerald Night came with a wagon. It makes no sense to sell a set like this, one huge locomotive (the tender is pretty much part of the locomotive) that is twice as long as the only carriage it comes with. A carriage which is not particularly innovative in design, but is based only on the "wow factor" of its colour, and new windows pieces in tan, which you aren't going to find anywhere else if you want more carriages... If it had been the locomotive only, no one would have ever complained that it didn't have carriages: it would have been just a continuation of the recent habit of releasing unmotorized locomotive sets targeted at AFOL, like the Santa Fé and the BNSF locomotives. The Santa Fé had carriages, but sold separately, and this was absolutely the best and most obvious thing to do. People who wanted the locomotive didn't have to buy carriages, and those who wanted them they just picked how many. With the EN either way you have to bother about either reselling the excess locomotives, or hunting the 2nd hand market for extra carriages. So they simply should have made either only the EN locomotive with tender, or made the carriage a separate set.

I think TLG has sold a lot of sets for $100 and up depending on country, and a bit of that sale is from people wanting another carriage. Among other factors it´s an economical one, and I´m sure the breakdown was that it´s a better deal as they did it. We dont´have the whole picture but what I´ve heard makes sense big time.

2. Planning? Car is already made, instructions exist and there is no need for new parts, so this is really not a good excuse (besides that that some financial manager limited number of lego direct sets for each years)

And there you explained it yourself.

3. I agree, but those two look complete and 10194 not. It looks like a starter-set, which is just waiting for cars to be added. I myself bought just the locomotive and tender (which are cheap today, look at point 1), because train with one car looks uncomplete and I rather added my own cars.

It worked out for you then!

I agree with that. Release the engine and tender only and offer the carriage as a seperate entity. Then if you don't want the coach, and make your own - you can and keeps the price down. But if you want to, buy the engine and one or 10 coaches as well.

See my other post and the text above. But what is the problem getting this for around $18 + shipping?:

4 pieces

10 pieces

I understand your frustration a bit, I loved the Santa Fe setup, but that´s not how it was made this time. So get over it and be happy with the great set 10194 is and that TLG made it for us - yes us Afol´s, and then build your own extra carriages! And you can Moc them and make a really cool looking train !

[Legoist]

I dont´know the whole story but I know a bit, and you can listen to it or keep ignoring it & and do a closed circle argument.

I don't understand why you have to be so bitter. We're just customers saying our opinions. Each of us has its preferences and we want to believe that if we tell them openly - and once in a while we happen to find out that a lot of others agree - then perhaps there is a tiny chance of affecting production to our advantage. Don't underestimate how the purchasing power of a customer can be influenced by this kind of things, especially in the positive case On the other hand, let's not overestimate the skills of marketing experts... they know their job, but the history of every company (TLG included) contains marketing failures, and no one can ultimately know if they would have really made less money with a different arrangement. Marketing is not a science unfortunately. Customers speaking up in the internet era is supposed to be helpful for companies, and at no cost.

And come on, you're an Ambassador! You're supposed to be the channel between the company and the customers, how could you suggest the latter to "get over it"?

[CopMike]

I don't understand why you have to be so bitter. We're just customers saying our opinions. Each of us has its preferences and we want to believe that if we tell them openly - and once in a while we happen to find out that a lot of others agree - then perhaps there is a tiny chance of affecting production to our advantage. Don't underestimate how the purchasing power of a customer can be influenced by this kind of things, especially in the positive case On the other hand, let's not overestimate the skills of marketing experts... they know their job, but the history of every company (TLG included) contains marketing failures, and no one can ultimately know if they would have really made less money with a different arrangement. Marketing is not a science unfortunately. Customers speaking up in the internet era is supposed to be helpful for companies, and at no cost.

And come on, you're an Ambassador! You're supposed to be the channel between the company and the customers, how could you suggest the latter to "get over it"?

I´m not bitter, sorry if I come out that way. But this was proposed almost the day after the launch. It has been discussed on EB + all other open communtys, it has been brought to TLG through Afol´s both verbally & written, by the Ambassadors in the Ambassadors forum & at events & at meetings with TLG employees both verbally & written - and it has been explained by TLG why it´s not going to happen (but of course - one should never give up ). That written, my focus is more on not to keep crying over lost milk than taking some positive action. What do I mean by that then? Well here´s some examples on what can be done:

• Design an alternative model like the 10022/10025 and send it to TLG
  
• Start a petition all over the communitys and bring the numbers to TLG
  
• Contact a LUG/sign onto a LUG and try to benefit from the LUGBULK program to get the pieces
  

Will those two first do it? Don´t think so but ......

If I were into trains and wanted more carriages I would get the pieces and build me some. Lego is as you all know a system of parts that you yourself could build into what you want. Well, you have the instructions & the possibility to get the pieces - what´s the problem? I don´t think concentrateting on the "bad side" of the launch of an excellent set out of the blue, by saying basicly that TLG is stupid because they don´t do another carriage set, is the best approach. Instead we should design new stuff/put in ideas for things NOT being built/pieces NOT being made, to be able to build new stuff. This is more like a set being sold out and we, the Afol´s kicking TLG for not making one more copy so I could have bought it !

But of course you and everybody else are entitled to your opinions, it just felt to me that´s this issue been there, done that .

[AndyC]

TLG have given plenty of good reasons for not making extra cars and, short of having seen their sales figures, us AFOLs just have to accept (whether or not we want to believe it) that when they say stand alone cars don't sell well enough to justify the cost, that it's true. I think, personally, we'd stand a much better chance persuading TLG to sell the parts needed to make our own extra cars through schemes like PaB. If things like the tan train windows were available there anyone who wanted more cars could easily obtain the parts needed to make one, either following the original design or MOCing up their own versions. Indeed it may just as easily be the case that extra cars don't sell so well, because that's exactly what AFOLs have done in the past, using Bricklink etc to obtain the bits they needed.

And if there were enough orders for the pieces needed to make EN carriages from PaB, maybe standalone cars would actually start to look like a viable option as sets.

[peterab]

TLG have given plenty of good reasons for not making extra cars and, short of having seen their sales figures, us AFOLs just have to accept (whether or not we want to believe it) that when they say stand alone cars don't sell well enough to justify the cost, that it's true. I think, personally, we'd stand a much better chance persuading TLG to sell the parts needed to make our own extra cars through schemes like PaB. If things like the tan train windows were available there anyone who wanted more cars could easily obtain the parts needed to make one, either following the original design or MOCing up their own versions. Indeed it may just as easily be the case that extra cars don't sell so well, because that's exactly what AFOLs have done in the past, using Bricklink etc to obtain the bits they needed.

And if there were enough orders for the pieces needed to make EN carriages from PaB, maybe standalone cars would actually start to look like a viable option as sets.

There is so much good sense here, thank you for posting it.

Further to your idea's, Jamie Berard said in his interview with Cpt Zuloo, that one of the choices they made when designing the Emerald Night was how many carriages to include. He asked if AFOL's would be more likely to buy the set if it were more expensive but had more carriages. I think each of us answering that question could influence any future AFOL trains.

Currently I own two Emerald Nights, and have purchased an additional twenty tan windows. So I can safely say, had EN come with three extra carriages at double the cost, I would be no worse off financially, and it would have been easier to purchase. I'm sure I would have bought it.

Edited January 12, 2010 by peterab

[Legoist]

I´m not bitter, sorry if I come out that way. But this was proposed almost the day after the launch. It has been discussed on EB + all other open communtys, it has been brought to TLG through Afol´s both verbally & written, by the Ambassadors in the Ambassadors forum & at events & at meetings with TLG employees both verbally & written - and it has been explained by TLG why it´s not going to happen (but of course - one should never give up ).

That actually sounds like everything has really been done on AFOLs and Ambassadors' part, and even more. Great!

BTW, personally I have not been hoping for releases of an EN without the carriage, I think it's pretty much a given that once a set is produced there are no variations possible (although they released a special version of the EN with the PF, but that's more an add-on). Maybe I was crying over spilled milk, but my concerns are more on the future train exclusive sets, which I do hope will be arranged more like the Santa Fé case. Who knows? My guess is that the EN is selling even more, but I believe it's because if the Santa Fé had a fantastic design, the EN has a super-fantasic design

Anyway, thanks a lot for sharing and clarifying

[gondortoast]

i completly agree lego could get some extra revenue from this,

It really annoys me that Lego never seems to push a product. There is scope for people to add extra coaches to the EN, but why don't they (Lego) release just the carriage set? Won't be hard, as all you need is a box, as the instructions are already done.

The Enlighten Trains, you can order any amount of each. I have now a whole scale setup of the Oxford Train here.

omg that looks cool,

can you or someone please post a link to the oxford website, i cant seem to find it.

many thanks,

toast.

[cusaeng]

omg that looks cool,

can you or someone please post a link to the oxford website, i cant seem to find it.

many thanks,

toast.

not in this topic mate

try this

Edited January 12, 2010 by cusaeng

[CP5670]

TLG have given plenty of good reasons for not making extra cars and, short of having seen their sales figures, us AFOLs just have to accept (whether or not we want to believe it) that when they say stand alone cars don't sell well enough to justify the cost, that it's true.

On this point, something to keep in mind is that TLG has become a much larger company over the years, and profit margins that they considered good 10 or 20 years ago might not be acceptable today. Even if an addon car set turns in a profit, the profit margin may not be up to some minimum level they want for any new product they release.

Still, I would certainly like to see separate cars for any future trains TLG releases. I like trains but am not exactly a big train collector, and if TLG releases a train set that doesn't contain enough cars, I would be much more inclined to not buy the set at all rather than buy extra copies just for the cars. I think many "occasional" train buyers like me would make the same choice. I didn't get the Emerald Night set, although that was just because I'm not really into steam trains.

Edited January 13, 2010 by CP5670

[AgentRick]

The Enlighten Trains, you can order any amount of each. I have now a whole scale setup of the Oxford Train here.

Are those Enlighten trains any good? I remember seeing them on eBay a while ago and was reluctant about buying one.

[soc399]

TLG have given plenty of good reasons for not making extra cars and, short of having seen their sales figures, us AFOLs just have to accept (whether or not we want to believe it) that when they say stand alone cars don't sell well enough to justify the cost, that it's true. I think, personally, we'd stand a much better chance persuading TLG to sell the parts needed to make our own extra cars through schemes like PaB. If things like the tan train windows were available there anyone who wanted more cars could easily obtain the parts needed to make one, either following the original design or MOCing up their own versions. Indeed it may just as easily be the case that extra cars don't sell so well, because that's exactly what AFOLs have done in the past, using Bricklink etc to obtain the bits they needed.

And if there were enough orders for the pieces needed to make EN carriages from PaB, maybe standalone cars would actually start to look like a viable option as sets.

I totally agree that the parts to build more carriages would be a great addition to PaB. I have two Emerald Night sets and an extra set of the new wheels from Bricklink, but I doubt I will buy another whole set just to expand my train. There are just too many other great sets, and I'm starting to MOC my own trains from scratch. The extra locomotive parts are a nice bonus, but the EN locomotive parts are cheap on Bricklink with so many people looking for more carriages.