Bionicle 2001 and beyond: An essay of personal thoughts.

[Corvus]

Yes, several times, in City of the Lost. :-P

Oh, the comics? Hm. Best not to judge the story by that, it's like judging The Empire Strikes Back based on an internet summary instead of watching the movie. So, read the books if you want to judge it. ;-)

Well, they need to sell. If they sell, it means people like them. You're just not one of those people. Which is fine. :-) You and others just need to look at it from their point of view -- why hold the minority above the majority?

Thankfully there are other LEGO themes that interest you, I assume, otherwise you wouldn't be here. :-P

Hm. You should read Shadows in the Sky. I'm pretty sure you're judging the story by the comics/advertisements (the advertisements aren't actually canon, by the way), which just isn't fair on the story as a whole.

When you've read it, call me. :-P

Yet, I still buy all the Bionicle anyway. 8-| And yes, I have been reading just the comics. Probably should try the books... :-$

Will

[Visorak-kal]

The goal of a true protector is either survival or the restoration of peace.

The current maladies you're describing are strictly big, giant piles of extreme peril... the goal to "fighting" being merely survival.

The old way could still have violence, but the end goal was to restore peace and let the matoran go back to living their daily lives and flourishing in culture.

Right now it all seems like just a handful of action figures being smashed together by a kid in a sandbox.

Before, it seemed more immersive somehow. You got the fights but then got to be involved with what the fighting was even for.

You can do the all-out brawling stuff a season or so, but then it just gets mundane.

In some cases the fighting is for survival...in others it is for freedom. I really saw the Metru Nui saga as a fight for the freedom of Matoran; we don't want Matoran living under the tyrannical rule of Vahki controlled by Makuta. I think that the whole underlying tone of the Vahki was the lack of freedom. Again, in 2005 the fight against the Visorak was to finish the job of freeing the Matoran and bringing them to a new land. It really wasn't for survival because Makuta wasn't in any way going to kill the Matoran.

Now, I agree with you that the 2006-2007 cycle was obviously for the survival of the universe in terms of the big pictures and the Matoran. Those Matoran are not like the Metru Nui/Mata Nui Matoran, they were plagued by things that required them to hold on to survival. The whole underlying theme of 2006-2007 cycle was survival, it was a race.

And then we have 2008. Now, while survival is mentioned a lot you've got to really look at every action or drama out there...you're going to find the word "survival" somewhere, either in the context of the book or in a dialogue. It makes suspense, whether or not survival is the actual theme of that story. Harry Potter mentions survival numerous times throughout the books, but in the early books Harry wasn't really fighting for his survival. It's included for effect.

I see 2008 as about finishing what the Toa Nuva started to do. For the Karda Nui Matoran, it isn't about survival here, their friends are being turned evil, they're not being killed. It is for the figurative survival of light. And the Toa Nuva's fight is obviously for the freedom of the universe by awakening Mata Nui. That's the point of 2008. So, as you can see, not everything is for survival, you've got different types of action all of which could be considered "deep." That said, I agree with your point about the girl with the flowers, there are simple, deep stories. I wouldn't mind a break from the action for like one comic or a chapter in a book, but LEGO isn't going to allot time in the story for that. If anything, the target wants more action, not less, so I just make the assumption that of course the Matoran had peace. The Karda Nui Matoran had about a thousand years of peace, it just isn't shown, you've got to use your imagination.

Tohst:

But I think of some of what is addressed here does go to the target market. The kiddies, the youngsters, the folk that come in, buy a ton of Bionicle and thankfully make Lego fistfuls of cash, and then outgrow it.

Couldn't some of the thoughts here be utilized as a way to keep more of the kiddies longer? I mean if you keep 10% more of the youngsters just 1 year longer isn't that worth it, even if you lose 5% elsewhere?

I believe that the current fanbase is kept about 3-4 years, ages 8-12, 12 already starting to outgrow. The problem, Tohst, is that you are looking at it in the opposite direction. LEGO is not focusing on the older side of the 8-12 spectrum, but on the younger side. Who will be 8-12 in a few years? The 6-7 year olds. Those are the targets that LEGO needs to try and attract slightly to BIONICLe through their older siblings. Those 6-7 year olds need to know BIONICLE when they become in the target. LEGO cannot focus on keeping current fans a year longer at the sacrifice of gaining new fans later on. And I'm guessing that it is hard to focus on both sides of that spectrum, the pleasure of a seven year old are vastly different from those of a thirteen year old.

So, the current permutation seems to be a two-year cycle but one without much diversity between the years. This I think leads to kids quickly being bored and Lego scrambling for the new kids. But what if you planned 3 years with more diversity. Keeping those kids you already had on board but knowing that individual years focus groups might not like certain aspects as well as others.

As I said, it is actually about 3-4 years in the target, the fourth year being less likely. I agree with the cycle theory, but you've got to remember that 2006-2008 are included in a single cycle, so we may see new styles and diversity in 2009.

For example: Dark colors vs. light colors. Focus groups seem to loooove the dark colors. Such that we get them year after year. But that probably also leads to kids being bored with the line quicker. By having a cycle of year 1 = dark colors, year 2 = standard colors, year 3 = alternate colors (Lime, translucent, whatever). And every Toa can be on a different part of the cycle. This adds diversity but you still get your dark colors. Heck, you could have kids looking forward to a year with their favorite Toa in dark colors. And us old foggies get more diversity.

Well, I"m not so sure that there is a lack of diversity there. I mean, Jaller Mahri had a bright orange undertone, Maxilos took on Mata red as did Hakann. Pridak and Matoro are clean whites, Hahli had a great lime green undertone, Matoro Mahri had a sky blue, so I don't see the dark colors in 2007, really, except maybe if you look at the Barraki. 2006, possibly, but a lot of the Piraka had brighter colors, plus there was teh trans colors in Jaller and Matoro Inika and the orange-yellow in Hewkii. Hahli also had a white combined with her dark blue.

I really think that so far only 2008 really has a darker color tone. Every Toa has dark grey, but I think that is used to unify them, their main colors (orange, lime green, and white) are not so dark. And it makes sense for the Makuta Phantoka to have darker colors, since Makuta are beings of darkness.

So, I think I shall reserve that judgement for 2009 and see if we at last get a change in bodies and we'll whether your theory on dark colors is correct, I see where you are coming from with the dark colors, looking at the Mistika which IMO are not as pleasing in bright colors as the Phantoka. (I prefer bright to dark on Toa, or at least a mix, and silver doesn't really cut down on teh darkness.)

And that doesn't even get into story line which if I were a kid, when my favorite Toa got switched out, thats a good place to dump the line. (See Transformers the Movie in the 80s for a good example of this sort of thinking and what happened to sales when Optimus and crew got put to pasture).

I dunno, maybe the big switch up in 2009 will incorporate this. But from the direction I've seen, probably not. Its all focus groups, short term goals, and accepting the loss of 99% of your market every couple of years.

I see the point about the Toa changing, but I think it would have been even worse for BIONICLE if they had kept the same Toa Nuva year after year after year--they had to change.

And remember that you are losing 99 percent of the market from the previous years, when you lose that 99 percent of old fans you are gaining a great percentage of newer fans who are taking the 8-12 year old spot. The important thing is to keep that target spot in existence, otherwise you end up with no target audience and there goes the line.

VK

[Clonie]

Yet, I still buy all the Bionicle anyway. 8-| And yes, I have been reading just the comics. Probably should try the books... :-$

I'm mainly talking about the 2007 books -- City of the Lost, Prisoners of the Pit, and Downfall. Give them a try. ;-) Like I said, <insert that thing I said about Star Wars V>.

Oh, and Shadows in the Sky too. It's probably good, although I haven't read it. :-P

Edited March 15, 2008 by Clonie

[goggleson]

as the sets came faster and wierder. I was pushed into my dark ages by bionicle. :'-( the last set I got was either a Rahkshi or some golden guy on a flying motorbike.

Lewa, bouncing through the trees,kopaka keeping an EYE on things, and Taka, oh how I'll miss you, surfing along the sides of the smooth objects in my house, while my friend collected the incarnations of the other 3.

Well at least I learnt a valuable lesson...

minifigs ON!

[trooperdavinfelth]

Listen: I'm not going to quote anyone since I kinda lost the jist of this thread entirely, but I just want to reply to several things I've seen said here.

First off, the whole point of Bionicle is to have six guys who protect the humble and innocent civilians. They do so. In Metru-Nui, the Matoran have disc launchers which they use in different ways. Sometimes it's for work, sometimes it's for fighting, but they aren't that successful. They can't even stop the Morbuzhak! But they are 100 % collectible. X-D Now, look at the Toa Hordika. They have spinners. Spinners. Phooo, they come in six different colors. So you can only get six spinners. But the titans have bonus spinners! So I should get them... For their spinners? No. I won't get a figure for a single solitary spinner. Unless the figure appeals to me or offers a wide range of accessories(for example, five masks, or three Kraata), I WILL NOT PURCHASE IT. Don't get me wrong, I've lost all interest in Bionicle. I read the comics and see what's going on. Nowadays from the prelim pics I've seen all I see are the same characters with new bodies. I also see characters on little speeder things like Takanuva's speeder. I already have the Toa Nuva, and I already have Makuta. I don't need Makuta's wife, son(s), daughter(s), nephew(s), niece(s), etc. :-|

The point of collecting six inch figures is so that you have a unique collection. Now, there are people who collect simply so they can say 'I have the turbo powered mondo-electro Zapper version of (insert character name)!' I don't do that; I collect for what I want, not so I can have everything even if it's the same stuff I already have! So people say: Why didn't you get the Barraki or the Piraka? I already said: I buy what I WANT, I don't buy on IMPULSE. So that's why I stopped buying Bionicle in all it's glory. And yes, it started in 2004 with the Visorak and the Toa Hordika. All I want to see, frankly, is this line end. Then I might get a few figs here and there just to remember it by.

[Visorak-kal]

As far as I can remember, trooperdavinfelth, this is the first year where a character(s) has been released more than once? Unless you are counting different years? In that case, the only other option is new Toa every year, which would please you and bring out the haters of character ditching. And let's be serious, nobody is going to buy Axalara, Jetrax, or Rockoh for the guy sitting on it. I for one wouldn't waste 80 bucks unless I actually liked the vehicle. WIth things that size, the vehicle is easily priority over the rider. And in any case, it is hardly a different style of Lewa Nuva, it is really just someone to include in the vehicle so that kids can start playing as soon as they get it and not have to buy both vehicle AND a canister set to ride it.

And you seem to be classifying a lot of people, I bet the vast majority of BIONICLE buyers don't even collect. They just buy the ones they like and roleplay.

And in my opinion, I prefer the same characters, even if in different forms. You see, I write, and I know that successful stories, even in vast universes, revolve around a set of characters and not twenty-one or thirty people. There is the occasional come-in character, but they are not the focus of the story. The focus of BIONICLE over these years has been so far Toa--they can't ditch Toa and they have to have a hero every year, or they get stuck with 2003 all over again.

I prefer they pick old characters instead of making new ones, as those characters can grow and develop and the story is easier to follow because you know and care for these characters. If you look, you'll notice that the characters who have become Toa were, for the most part, all characters we have known and loved since 2001. I prefer it that way, and I also prefer less characters in 2008 rather than 21+ at the end of the 2006. Less characters=more screen time for existing characters=more development and story.

So what you see as bad set-wise, I see as unimportant set-wise (the vehicles are what matter) and good story-wise.

I already have the Toa Nuva, and I already have Makuta. I don't need Makuta's wife, son(s), daughter(s), nephew(s), niece(s), etc.

Then you must hate 2003, you know, the sons of Makuta, the Rahkshi. Terrible.

I don't know where this Makuta wife, daughter, son thing came from, but none of the Makuta this year have ever been seen before. They are all-new characters, they are all the species Makuta that work for the Makuta we know and love. (Makuta Teridax for the sake of understanding, though I prefer just to call him Makuta.) They are all part of the Brotherhood of Makuta, they are not old characters. And I wholeheartedly disagree with dumping either the Toa Nuva or Makuta. New forms, however different, are acceptable to me, but abandoning the characters would have been unforgivable.

So people say: Why didn't you get the Barraki or the Piraka? I already said: I buy what I WANT, I don't buy on IMPULSE. So that's why I stopped buying Bionicle in all it's glory. And yes, it started in 2004 with the Visorak and the Toa Hordika. All I want to see, frankly, is this line end.

Frankly, no one is expecting consumers to buy on impulse. That job is for the Matoran and other impulse sets. You didn't buy the Barraki or the PIraka for the same reason I didn't buy Reidak or Mantax or Ehlek, the same reason I'm not going to buy Gorast or Rockoh T3. You didn't like them. Honestly, you're better than other dislikers who say they dislike and then buy the set anyway. You speak with your wallet, and if most of the fanbase agrees with you then you've helped change something. That is what happened with clones. And you mean 2005 is when you stopped?

And I don't get the whole argument with the Rhotuka and Kanoka. Did you like them, or not? And what do you mena by, Don't get me wrong, I've lost all interest in BIONICLE?

VK

[trooperdavinfelth]

As far as I can remember, trooperdavinfelth, this is the first year where a character(s) has been released more than once? Unless you are counting different years? In that case, the only other option is new Toa every year, which would please you and bring out the haters of character ditching. And let's be serious, nobody is going to buy Axalara, Jetrax, or Rockoh for the guy sitting on it. I for one wouldn't waste 80 bucks unless I actually liked the vehicle. WIth things that size, the vehicle is easily priority over the rider. And in any case, it is hardly a different style of Lewa Nuva, it is really just someone to include in the vehicle so that kids can start playing as soon as they get it and not have to buy both vehicle AND a canister set to ride it.

And you seem to be classifying a lot of people, I bet the vast majority of BIONICLE buyers don't even collect. They just buy the ones they like and roleplay.

Not quite. The Toa Hordika are just the Toa Metru all over again. The Toa Mahri are just the Inika all over again. ;-)

Also, I notice with some surprise(since I don't follow the 'new bionicle threads') that Takanuva is getting an overhaul. Now he's the Toa of Twilight? Sheez... Way to screw him, TLC. :-|

I also just noticed these gigantic promos. Eighty bucks? Just... Just wrong. *sad* This is the direction I expected from this year's sets.

And in my opinion, I prefer the same characters, even if in different forms. You see, I write, and I know that successful stories, even in vast universes, revolve around a set of characters and not twenty-one or thirty people. There is the occasional come-in character, but they are not the focus of the story. The focus of BIONICLE over these years has been so far Toa--they can't ditch Toa and they have to have a hero every year, or they get stuck with 2003 all over again.

I prefer they pick old characters instead of making new ones, as those characters can grow and develop and the story is easier to follow because you know and care for these characters. If you look, you'll notice that the characters who have become Toa were, for the most part, all characters we have known and loved since 2001. I prefer it that way, and I also prefer less characters in 2008 rather than 21+ at the end of the 2006. Less characters=more screen time for existing characters=more development and story.

So what you see as bad set-wise, I see as unimportant set-wise (the vehicles are what matter) and good story-wise.

Well, I like bringing out old characters as long as they aren't THAT different. These are just unrecognizable... And they have little matoran to hang on to them... And now there's three Makutas? I'm confused... *wacko*

Then you must hate 2003, you know, the sons of Makuta, the Rahkshi. Terrible.

I don't know where this Makuta wife, daughter, son thing came from, but none of the Makuta this year have ever been seen before. They are all-new characters, they are all the species Makuta that work for the Makuta we know and love. (Makuta Teridax for the sake of understanding, though I prefer just to call him Makuta.) They are all part of the Brotherhood of Makuta, they are not old characters. And I wholeheartedly disagree with dumping either the Toa Nuva or Makuta. New forms, however different, are acceptable to me, but abandoning the characters would have been unforgivable.

No way; they were an exception. If you don't like em', that's your problem. I love them. I was just saying that since we're suddenly seeing all these unrecognized villians who are apparently a part of the Brotherhood of Makuta. I was simply ranting. ;-)

Frankly, no one is expecting consumers to buy on impulse. That job is for the Matoran and other impulse sets. You didn't buy the Barraki or the PIraka for the same reason I didn't buy Reidak or Mantax or Ehlek, the same reason I'm not going to buy Gorast or Rockoh T3. You didn't like them. Honestly, you're better than other dislikers who say they dislike and then buy the set anyway. You speak with your wallet, and if most of the fanbase agrees with you then you've helped change something. That is what happened with clones. And you mean 2005 is when you stopped?

And I don't get the whole argument with the Rhotuka and Kanoka. Did you like them, or not? And what do you mena by, Don't get me wrong, I've lost all interest in BIONICLE?

VK

What I said might've encouraged someone to say 'He's still interested! I'll try and convince him to get back into it!' to me.

No, I stopped in 2004 with the Hordika. That was when I realized what TLC was doing with it.

I collected the Kanoka discs; they were different and had diversity. The Rhotuka spinners have nothing special about them; just spinners which spin.

I think the main differences between us are that you stopped in 2003 with the Rahkshii and I stopped in 2004 with the Hordika. *sweet*

[Visorak-kal]

About the Rahkshi comment, I was just being sarcastic. I'm a Rahkshi fan as much as the next guy. I still haven't stopped BIONICLE, I've bought sets into 2008.

Not quite. The Toa Hordika are just the Toa Metru all over again. The Toa Mahri are just the Inika all over again.

Also, I notice with some surprise(since I don't follow the 'new bionicle threads') that Takanuva is getting an overhaul. Now he's the Toa of Twilight? Sheez... Way to screw him, TLC.

I also just noticed these gigantic promos. Eighty bucks? Just... Just wrong. This is the direction I expected from this year's sets.

I was actually pleased with the vehicles, I was seeing Ussanui (I remember it, a great set) all over again. I see what you mean with the Hordika being the Metru, the Mahri being the Inika, but that is a tradition in BIONICLE, the Nuva were just the Mata, and now the Toa Nuva Phantoka are really just the Toa Nuva brought to modern standards and changed.

Well, I like bringing out old characters as long as they aren't THAT different. These are just unrecognizable... And they have little matoran to hang on to them... And now there's three Makutas? I'm confused...

But they've got to be different, you don't want the Mahri to look like the Inika when they come out only a year afterwards. I admit that the new Nuva could have looked more like the originals, but as I've said that really wasn't the designers purpose. For the purposes of sets, I prefer that there are differences between adjacent years, but for the purposes of story I prefer same characters for a while, and then a refreshing change. (Nuva to Metru to Inika to Nuva again.)

And the Matoran really just ride them, any Matoran could have ridden any of the old Toa, only now they sort of made it a gimmick, to persuade fans to buy Matoran and Toa to link up.

Now, you say you stopped in 2005, with the Rhotuka, correct? This might explain why you don't know about the Brotherhood of Makuta. There's a whole Brotherhood of them out there, although they are all under the leadership of classic Makuta. (We've just learned his real name is Teridax, but I prefer Makuta.) ALl the 2008 villains are Makuta species, but they can be identified by their real names. (Antroz, Chirox, etc.)

No way; they were an exception. If you don't like em', that's your problem. I love them. I was just saying that since we're suddenly seeing all these unrecognized villians who are apparently a part of the Brotherhood of Makuta. I was simply ranting.

I figured that, what I didn't get was that you didn't know about all these Makuta before they showed up. I was following story dilligently through 2005-2007, so the apperance of more Makuta was not a surprise to me.

What I said might've encouraged someone to say 'He's still interested! I'll try and convince him to get back into it!' to me.

No, I stopped in 2004 with the Hordika. That was when I realized what TLC was doing with it.

I collected the Kanoka discs; they were different and had diversity. The Rhotuka spinners have nothing special about them; just spinners which spin.

I think I misunderstood you. Were you trying to say that you are still interested or that you aren't? Did you mean to say that you haven't lost all hope in BIONICLE, or that you have?

I see what you mean in the difference between Kanoka and Rhotuka. I too was saddened by the death of collectibles, and then came the squid which really finished them off. There weren't even different colors, sort of. And now this year there are no ammo packs.

And you do know that the Toa Hordika/Visorak came out in 2005, right?

VK

[Zarkan]

Interesting discussion going on here. Let me add my thoughts as well:

I've been a big fan of bionicle since 2004, and over the years I have seen quality of sets increase and decrease. In 2004 Bionicle was at a high point. 2005 sunk it to it's lowest level, and I never bought very many kits from it. In 2006 I hated the piraka when I first saw them, but eventually I grew to like them, as well as some of the inika and all of the titans and voyatoran.

Then came 2007, where it seemed that Bionicle was finally back to utter awesomeness. For the first time since the original year, we had totally non-clone sets that surpassed even the Toa Mata in uniqueness among each other. We also got several mask recolors, which hadn't been done since 2004, with the exception of Toa Norik's mask. The canisters sets were hits and misses, but mostly hits. Mantax, Kalmah, Takadox and Ehlek were genuinely creepy without looking butt-ugly, and Jaller and Hahli were some of the best toa we've ever had. But without a doubt, the best part of 2007 was the story. Besides all the internet exclusives, the main story was awesome because it tried something bold and new by making the whole year underwater. The toa Mahri grew from inexperienced newbies to mature toa, and Matoro's battle with himself was quite something. The return of old characters. Interesting new chararacters like the semi suffering Hydraxon and the mind-wiped Mahritoran. All this made it totally enjoyable for me.

In 2008... not quite as much. So far, the titans have disapointed me, and the canisters sets partly as well. But the story is still hanging on, and I can't wait to see what comes next. Still, I wish the sets were better, but I do have one thing that comforts me: the assurance that if the sets sell well Bionicle will still live to see another day, and a new angle that I may love even more than before.

I remember reading a post some time ago where someone quoted resident BZP S&T geek Bonesiii, where he mentioned that "anything that sells well is good for bionicle, PERIOD." Obviously, the guy didn't like that, and it sure sounds crazy on the outside. But believe it or not, there is sound logic in that statement. Fact is, buisnesswise, anything that sells well IS good for a theme, PERIOD. Why do you think they keep making crazy shooters? Because they sell well. Why did they stop making brown canisters sets? Becaus they didn't sell well. It's all a money issue, and the majority of the customers doesn't lie in a buisness setting.

Sadly, you, I, and everyone both on here and BZP are NOT the majority of the customers. The majority of the customers probably haven't even discovered internet forums yet, because they are too busy playing with their legos to care about anything else. I'm talking about the 8-10 year olds who we used to be. Okay, we're all different, but you gotta admit that when you are young, you have a different mindset than when you are older and mature. TLC never meant bionicle to be a toy for obssessed adults and teens like us, they meant it to be for the kids that we used to be.

So, when it all boils down, our opinions do not make sales, the kids out there make sales, and we just have to accept that TLC is doing what's best for the company - unless of course, they fail to sell kits. Or, you could always try to join TLC and see what you can do about it. :-P

[JimBee]

sorry for reviving this but...

I totally agree with you on the dying breed of Bionicle idea. At first, when i was pretty young, i collected all six elements for each year, starting with the very first ones, the original toa. i hardly remember those days. anyways, i got all those,(2000-2002, somewhere in there) the

toa nuva,(2003), the Rhakshi (2004), The two bad guy titans (spider guy and big brute guy), the dark bad guy (Matoa, Matoka... something like that), and the Toa of light. then the Burok in 04, then the Metru Nui heroes in 05 and the Vhaki (I cant belive i remember all these names), and then my intrest of Bionicles completely died, except one 06 earth guy, with rubber head and glow up teeth. So yeah, i hate the new Bionicle now, although the songs on some of the Commercials are cool (All American Rejects- Move Along) and it might die out...

also, im pretty sure i got some of the stuff mixed up in comment. sorry. I also got the first two movies of Bionicle, even the forst game (GCN), but i gave all of it, all the movies, games, and bionicles, to my older neoghbor who likes bionicle, and gave me a few gamecube games in exchange.

[Algernon]

My interest in Bionicle waned in 2002, when the Bohroc failed to impress me, and it hasn't captured my interest ever since.

2001 had that surprisingly original, primitive, almost religious quality that was appropriately vague, yet specific enough to make for some great stories. It let us use our imagination - for the quest for the masks - by simply providing a new universe to play it without spoon-feeding the storyline to us. It roped me right in.

Since then, though, Bionicle failed to interest me. It seems like LEGO isn't trying anything new, because they're afraid it won't appeal to the Bionicle fanbase. Have they forgotten that trying something new was exactly what saved them from bankruptcy in 2001? Apparently so; the storyline and set designs get getting more and more contrived. This was most evident with the Visorak and Vahki.

I really do miss old-school Bionicle, though. I had a collection of free Bionicle CDs that came with some of the canisters. It was just an ad, really, but it sure was fun to mess around with. I remember being so impressed with the new pieces, and how much it had improved from ThrowBots and RoboRiders (on a side note I prefer TB and RR to the new Bionicle sets).

Now we're spoon-fed licensed themes and half-hearted originals. The only theme I've been really impressed with is Agents. Shame I'm too much of a space fan to really get into them.

[VBBN]

My interest in Bionicle waned in 2002, when the Bohroc failed to impress me, and it hasn't captured my interest ever since.

2001 had that surprisingly original, primitive, almost religious quality that was appropriately vague, yet specific enough to make for some great stories. It let us use our imagination - for the quest for the masks - by simply providing a new universe to play it without spoon-feeding the storyline to us. It roped me right in.

Almost religious quality? The Maori were going mad. Now we have some of the crappiest names.

[Zaktan of the Shadows]

And what? Maori wasn't crazy either? Macku - you're saying that shit wasn't crazy?

-ZotS

Edited June 25, 2008 by Zaktan of the Shadows

[Algernon]

Almost religious quality? The Maori were going mad. Now we have some of the crappiest names.

I really have no idea what you're talking about, but if you remember the story of Mata-Nui and Makuta being described with stones by the Turaga, and the Toa fighting the elements controlled by the bodiless Makuta, it certainly had a religious overtone.

[Pencoin]

hi ill post my thoughts on bionicle, why not heh?

2001: bionicle realses a new line called bionicle, it was rather similar to roboriders and slizers as i recall and i had like them so i gave bionicle a go. the thing that made these guys different to the prevoius was that they were more humanoid and gears. Gears, i loved Gears, they started to leave in 2005 i belive, and i didnt get any sets from 2005 (except for the playsets) and the speical edition toa hagah (can you guess why? ). with the mata the gears basiccly moved there arms the same with nuva (also the bohrok did a headbutting motion) the rahski moved there arms but in a different way, and the same thing for the and the metru moved there arms like the mata/nuva but with different pieces. the hordika i belive only moved there arms but not from the body while the visorak had none. no in 2006 none, diddaly sqawt i only got the matoran (with there moc-style builds) umbra and a piraka out of intrest (could of gone to exoforce ) and i hated it, alot, no gears were replaced by a gun, and unlike the rhotuka or kanoka these things wrent even remotley colletable, unless you count collecting them after losing them due to there crappyiness. there fired alot like a standard projectle gun like in action figures (but at least you built it out of specizled parts). and what else insted of no gears? glowing teeth or should that be craply glowing teeth and light up eyes that crapped aswell (i know i say crap alot but if i think about bionicle from 2005 onwards thats the only word in my mind ) and then the build, because there weren no gears so no complex builds and while i thought it was more posable i thought "isnt this why i buy action figures?" even though it was posable there was the limitating spine, the unequel arms and the 'i like to jump and roll away' zamors. i got an inika but sadly i lost it on bonfire night .

2007, had TLC managed to refine good no gear sets? well for a bit

baraki, not to many new parts but who gave a crap? each one was rather unique but the squid launchers, crap even though i hate 2006 upwards launchers i really wouldnt of mind even those air puff blaster the mistaker have. nocturn was nice i really liked him i still have him built today. the matoran were pretty sweet a nice complex build but i was worried they were pretty big. the mahri

kahzahni: a angel in hell (and i mean the set as a whole)

2008: (in smileys)

ill do more later

Edited June 25, 2008 by Pencoin

[VBBN]

I really have no idea what you're talking about, but if you remember the story of Mata-Nui and Makuta being described with stones by the Turaga, and the Toa fighting the elements controlled by the bodiless Makuta, it certainly had a religious overtone.

Yes, of course it did. The Great Spirit Mata Nui? That certainly had the resembalnce of their, well, god I guess. And that made the story pretty good. Anyway, the names aren't THAT weird. Just a bit stranger.

Has nayone noticed that kopaka is more talkative this year? He isn't what he used to be. Sly and always worked alone.

[Zarkan]

Has nayone noticed that kopaka is more talkative this year? He isn't what he used to be. Sly and always worked alone.

Well, the comics show that more than the books, but I see what you mean. This is explained in Bionicle Legends 8, though - At first, he was really quite angry about working with the two most cheerful and seemingly careless Toa (there's an actual line in the book saying something like that). However, he has matured in some ways, thanks to Pohatu's neverending friendliness with him. Even after his cold attitude towards the other toa, Pohatu has always tried to be a good friend to Kopaka, and in return Kopaka feels the need to protect his brother.

Also, Kopaka has worked with other toa before - the very first comic showed him reluctantly teaming up with Pohatu. In 2003 he worked with Gali and Lewa to reform Warihua, so they could challenge the Bohrok Kal. It's not that he's always worked alone - he just prefers it, although it often is not possible.

none, diddaly sqawt i only got the matoran (with there moc-style builds) umbra and a piraka out of intrest (could of gone to exoforce ) and i hated it, alot, no gears were replaced by a gun, and unlike the rhotuka or kanoka these things wrent even remotley colletable, unless you count collecting them after losing them due to there crappyiness. there fired alot like a standard projectle gun like in action figures (but at least you built it out of specizled parts). and what else insted of no gears? glowing teeth or should that be craply glowing teeth and light up eyes that crapped aswell (i know i say crap alot but if i think about bionicle from 2005 onwards thats the only word in my mind ) and then the build, because there weren no gears so no complex builds and while i thought it was more posable i thought "isnt this why i buy action figures?" even though it was posable there was the limitating spine, the unequel arms and the 'i like to jump and roll away' zamors. i got an inika but sadly i lost it on bonfire night .

2007, had TLC managed to refine good no gear sets? well for a bit

baraki, not to many new parts but who gave a crap? each one was rather unique but the squid launchers, crap even though i hate 2006 upwards launchers i really wouldnt of mind even those air puff blaster the mistaker have. nocturn was nice i really liked him i still have him built today. the matoran were pretty sweet a nice complex build but i was worried they were pretty big. the mahri

kahzahni: a angel in hell (and i mean the set as a whole)

Heh, I wouldn't say that builds like Vezon and Fennrak, and Brutaka were necessarily simple. True, they weren't the Bahrag or Muaka and Kane Ra, but they still are far more complex than any average action figure - you still build them out of hundreds of parts, and you still can recycle them into new creations. Try doing that with GIJoe or Transformers!

The Barraki didn't have too many new parts? What's up with that? The Barraki were simply goldmines for cool parts: Ehlek had awesome spines, head, new lime parts, and claws - Carapar had exclusive, rusty colored parts, claws, and grey rahkshi feet - Kalmah had all that sweet red and black armor, plus a cool head, new feet mold and new tentacles - Pridak had new feet, head, blades, white joints - etc. We haven't had kits as amazing as the Barraki since, both in unique, cool design and parts.

Funny, I really haven't understood why people hate the Mahri so much. They are easily the most unique group of toa we've had since the Toa Mata, and while Hewkii and Matoro weren't that great, the rest were awesome. Jaller and Hahli were IMO the perfection of their respective Toa elements, and Nuparu and Kongu had some interesting design features that fit their personalities (Nuparu looks like a defensive enginer, with the skinny design and shield instead of a frontal combat weapon, while Kongu is still a long distance projectile user, harkening back to his days as a Gukko rider). I truly wish that TLC had used the same creativity they used on the Mahri when designing the Toa Mistika, who are awfuly awful.

I am wondering why you only mentioned Nocturn and Karzahni though - because the other titans, especially Maxilos and Gadunka, were highly original as well.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Grevious

[dviddy]

Carapar had exclusive, rusty colored parts

And the bolded word makes his armour practically USELESS.

Jaller and Hahli were IMO the perfection of their respective Toa elements

Honestly, I stopped reading after that. I can't for the life of me figure out why people like these two toa. Jaller's weirdly jumbly in the tumbly, gappy, and his mask is out of place with the rest of the masks we've had for seven years, and Hahli is almost hunch-backed, with one of those damn backwards torsos (seriously LEGO, wtf?), and crappy breaky lime pieces.

[Zarkan]

Honestly, I stopped reading after that. I can't for the life of me figure out why people like these two toa. Jaller's weirdly jumbly in the tumbly, gappy, and his mask is out of place with the rest of the masks we've had for seven years, and Hahli is almost hunch-backed, with one of those damn backwards torsos (seriously LEGO, wtf?), and crappy breaky lime pieces.

And I can't for the life of me figure out why you stop reading people's posts just because you disagree with one comment they make. It almost makes it seem like you view people on a lower level then yourself just because their opinions may be radical or different from the majority.

Seriously, Jaller's mask looks like fire, and you really can't get more Fire Toa like than a mask that looks like it's burning. I also don't see why it looks so out of place - I think it looks very heroic and noble (far more than the Inika mask), and I think Jaller would look nice fighting alongside Tahu Nuva, if not for the size increase. The gaps - yeah, they are a bit annoying, but IMO, they don't really harm the appearance too much - and at least the armor is more creative than the repetive Inika armor we've gotten for three years. As for Hahli, I agree - the Piraka torso and hunchback are not the greatest, but neither are that bad when you consider her great points. The mask is wonderful - it really harkens back to the original Kaukau with the breathing mask look and the transparent visor. Then there's the claw and fins - yes, they are a bit unusual, but I think they work beautifully on a master of the water, as they are common elements of sea creatures. Finally, I know the color scheme is a bit odd, but I like that it was really radical - plus I think it's quite striking.

The lime joints? Yeah, that was crappy, but it was a production error, not a problem with the set. Doesn't make it any less annoying though.

[Algernon]

Of all the LEGO fandoms Bionicle fans seen to be the most combative.

[Makaru]

I find it very comparative to Transformer Fandom.

Basically, Geewunners with half the gestation period.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Makaru

[Clonie]

Of all the LEGO fandoms Bionicle fans seen to be the most combative.

That's like saying, of all the colours, red is the reddest.

[Algernon]

That's like saying, of all the colours, red is the reddest.

...except not.

Dude, there has got to be a better analogy for that.

[VBBN]

That's because Bionicle has a solid story(well not really) and other lego themes are just sets. We love the old characters, and the mixed thoughts on these rmakes cause more fighting.

[trooperdavinfelth]

...except not.

Dude, there has got to be a better analogy for that.

I don't know; it seems very clear to me. He's saying that of all the Lego debates and debaters out there, Bionicle fans seem the most zealous.