"Castle lines never die" or "what made me change my mind and believe in new exciting castle lines".

[Itaria No Shintaku]

You know all I started a topic about fearing that no castle lines would see the light during Nexo Knight's arc, and still I am very sure about this. I however have hope for 2019 and the future.

This is why I changed my mind, perhaps I am totally wrong (and I have been several times in the past so it would not be a surprise).

I was thinking that the lack of castle themes and the need for something like Nexo Knights was due to children being not very fond of the theme itself. I googled, for fun, "LEGO CASTLE 2018" while well knowing that there won't be any castle line for the next year.

I saw that third parties are still focusing on castle lines. Lele, SY, Enlighten and Sluban do. Now, while I am not enlisting in this the fact that Lepin was rumored to give old castle sets a new life, because that's obviously for nostalgic adults, Lele, SY, Enlighten and Sluban are aimed to children and that would be totally suicide to keep on producing something that nobody is interested in. I am changing my mind. Perhaps children are interested in castle lines after all. While I still think children may prefere a fantasy attempt with dragons, skeletons and orc, still they are interested in this. 

What do you think?

[SirBlake]

To me it is a no-brainer that Lego+castle is a timeless combination that will always be attractive to kids and adults alike. They're just made for each other. 

Consider the point that has been brought up before that while we don't have a true castle theme active right now, there have been Lego castles: Cinderella and other Disney sets, angry birds, etc. 

It will come back around. Just a matter of time. 

[Itaria No Shintaku]

32 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

To me it is a no-brainer that Lego+castle is a timeless combination that will always be attractive to kids and adults alike. They're just made for each other. 

Consider the point that has been brought up before that while we don't have a true castle theme active right now, there have been Lego castles: Cinderella and other Disney sets, angry birds, etc. 

It will come back around. Just a matter of time. 

Yes, and children love caste.

[Aanchir]

I don't necessarily agree that competing products are a reliable indicator of what lines hold promise for LEGO. After all, most of these competing brands are much smaller than LEGO and don't have as much global reach. So sometimes something that can be profitable for one of those brands might not be so profitable for LEGO.

That said, I have never seen any reason to doubt that Castle themes have a future. Just because Nexo Knights is a twist on traditional Castle themes doesn't mean that LEGO doesn't think Castle themes can survive without that sort of twist. It's not even aimed at the same audience as most Castle themes. If anything, it's just an attempt to leverage the timeless appeal of LEGO knights and castles to create a new "big bang" IP that fills the void Legends of Chima left behind.

[thetang22]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

If anything, it's just an attempt to leverage the timeless appeal of LEGO knights and castles to create a new "big bang" IP that fills the void Legends of Chima left behind.

It feels as though the result was leaving an even bigger void where traditional Castle used to be.  It was a gamble doing Nexo, for sure.  However, Lego could have also created a big-bang theme with traditional Castle (with some medieval fantasy)....but decided on wheels and lasers instead.

[Aanchir]

4 hours ago, thetang22 said:

It feels as though the result was leaving an even bigger void where traditional Castle used to be.  It was a gamble doing Nexo, for sure.  However, Lego could have also created a big-bang theme with traditional Castle (with some medieval fantasy)....but decided on wheels and lasers instead.

A big part of the idea of themes like Nexo Knights is to appeal to older kids by delivering a toy that feels totally new to them, like nothing they or anyone they know has played with before. A traditional medieval fantasy couldn't fulfill that goal when actual Middle Earth sets had been available less than two years prior.

Plus, it'd be downright unimaginative to give up on ever even trying a "future castle" theme just because it might mean 2–3 years without the sort of Castle sets the company had already been doing for decades. Nexo wasn't just created on a whim — it was an idea the designers had been positing for years that they finally saw a chance to bring to fruition. Not because classic castles were bad or uninteresting somehow, but just because it's nice (and good for business) to try something different every now and then instead of getting stuck in a rut.

[Artanis I]

It's all a waste of time when all I ever hear in the Lego aisle is from middle-aged women (let's face it, these are the people buying the vast majority of Lego sets. Not AFOLs, not kids, not teens, not dads, but rather someone else's mum) saying "what about this fire engine / helicopter, that's nice, he'll like that" followed by mumble mumble by the brother/friend/cousin who was looking bright-eyed at the Star Wars, Ninjago, Super Heroes or so.

[Robert8]

The have did something like Nexo Knights with KKII (10 years ago), but now they took it to eleven to make use of the apps and such

I don't think NK was meant to become a replacement for Castle, it's just a different take for a castle theme. When the time comes there'll be a "normal" castle theme again. 

I'm pretty sure we'll see another theme like NK and KKII in a decade or such

[gedren_y]

I have seen the same off-brand castle set in the toy aisle of my local Dollar General store for nearly two years. I tell everyone I can how much a waste of money those kinds of brands are. Kre-O is probably the worst that I have personally handled. My mom brought me a bag of them, not understanding the difference.

[kabel]

As a father of a 10 and a 7 year old son I'd like to confirm that kids are interested in castle stuff. Heck, due to a lack of LEGO castles, they went on to buy a €150 playmobil castle with their combined savings. And without me telling them my feelings about Nexo Knights, they have decided on their own to give it the name "Nexo Scheiss" (Nexo Shit). I can honestly say I didn't influence them that way, well maybe just a little bit with all my castle, pirate and western mocs ...

[Itaria No Shintaku]

15 hours ago, kabel said:

As a father of a 10 and a 7 year old son I'd like to confirm that kids are interested in castle stuff. Heck, due to a lack of LEGO castles, they went on to buy a €150 playmobil castle with their combined savings. And without me telling them my feelings about Nexo Knights, they have decided on their own to give it the name "Nexo Scheiss" (Nexo Shit). I can honestly say I didn't influence them that way, well maybe just a little bit with all my castle, pirate and western mocs ...

You are a good father.

[Digger of Bricks]

How do "big bang" themes fare over in Europe? Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but like most licences themes, they seem to appeal to American audiences.

Why couldn't Lego sell a traditional Castle theme running parallel to Nexo Knights distributed to all European retailers, but sold here in the US as a brand store exclusive theme? It would test to see if Castle would sell well in the US currently, and also avoid cannibalising mainstream retailer Nexo Knights sales.

[Lyichir]

2 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

How do "big bang" themes fare over in Europe? Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but like most licences themes, they seem to appeal to American audiences.

Why couldn't Lego sell a traditional Castle theme running parallel to Nexo Knights distributed to all European retailers, but sold here in the US as a brand store exclusive theme? It would test to see if Castle would sell well in the US currently, and also avoid cannibalising mainstream retailer Nexo Knights sales.

I don't know of any universal trend for Big Bang themes' performance in Europe. As far as I'm aware Ninjago has been similarly popular in Europe to its performance elsewhere in the world, while I've heard that Legends of Chima was actually MORE popular in Europe than it was here in America (hence the second wave of constraction figures being released in Europe but not in America). I haven't heard much specific news about Nexo Knights' performance in Europe, but would not be surprised if it is doing well there.

I will say that I don't think Lego has much interest in designing whole themes primarily aimed at one specific market. Yes, they have done so in the '90s, and themes have often had their distribution strategy modified in subsequent years, but I think Lego would generally be much more keen on creating worldwide hits whenever possible, rather than building a theme with such a limited marketing strategy from the get-go.

[Digger of Bricks]

1 minute ago, Lyichir said:

I don't know of any universal trend for Big Bang themes' performance in Europe. As far as I'm aware Ninjago has been similarly popular in Europe to its performance elsewhere in the world, while I've heard that Legends of Chima was actually MORE popular in Europe than it was here in America (hence the second wave of constraction figures being released in Europe but not in America). I haven't heard much specific news about Nexo Knights' performance in Europe, but would not be surprised if it is doing well there.

I will say that I don't think Lego has much interest in designing whole themes primarily aimed at one specific market. Yes, they have done so in the '90s, and themes have often had their distribution strategy modified in subsequent years, but I think Lego would generally be much more keen on creating worldwide hits whenever possible, rather than building a theme with such a limited marketing strategy from the get-go.

I hadn't researched Big Bang sale figures before, so I just presumed that would have been the case without looking into it. Didn't know that about Chima, would have never thought. 

[Murrig Icehammer]

 

Spoiler

 

 

I think this says it all:

 

Quote

 

Attention All Knights... Hear ye, hear ye!

All the fighting with the Dragon soldiers have made the King and his fellow LEGO® Castle knights really tired, and in so they’re retiring soon. We hope you’ve had many great adventures with the Castle theme, and don’t worry, brave knights! You can still continue your knight adventures with LEGO® NEXO KNIGHTS™!

 

 

https://www.lego.com/en-us/castle/fallbackpage

 

In my opinion, LEGO seems to have no interest in reestablishing a classic styled Castle line in the forseeable future. I fear that themes which are not supported by other media, like a TV series or Movies won't attract enough kids these days. (Simply being fascinated about history/fantasy doesn't seem to be enough to keep kids interested, they need to be bombarded with a theme from several directions so it seems.)

But since i'm not a child anymore, i don't really care. But what are we AFOLs supposed to do now? Well nothing, except to hope the get some bits here and there in form of a special set every five years or so (if any, lol). There's one thing i don't really understand. Why does LEGO leave that market to other brands like the ones mentioned in the opening post, instead of releasing at least a small number of sets each year just to keep their AFOL customers (us) trust to LEGO and not have them buy some other brand (some which could be even harmful to our health, as much as i have heard) ?

 

Are we really THAT insignificant that LEGO can confidently ignore us? Don't get me wrong i just try to understand this matter.

-cheers!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Murrig Icehammer

[MAB]

On 14/05/2017 at 4:20 PM, Lyichir said:

I don't know of any universal trend for Big Bang themes' performance in Europe. As far as I'm aware Ninjago has been similarly popular in Europe to its performance elsewhere in the world, while I've heard that Legends of Chima was actually MORE popular in Europe than it was here in America (hence the second wave of constraction figures being released in Europe but not in America). I haven't heard much specific news about Nexo Knights' performance in Europe, but would not be surprised if it is doing well there.

I will say that I don't think Lego has much interest in designing whole themes primarily aimed at one specific market. Yes, they have done so in the '90s, and themes have often had their distribution strategy modified in subsequent years, but I think Lego would generally be much more keen on creating worldwide hits whenever possible, rather than building a theme with such a limited marketing strategy from the get-go.

 

From what I can tell (mainly standing in the school playground while dropping off / picking up kids) ninjago did well with younger kids at least (5-11 year olds, the age at my kids' school). But then, they have also chatted about Chima, and now chat about NK quite a lot too. And this is without the influence of the cartoon series. My eldest son (now 9) loved Chima more than ninjago and NK. 

Whether that translates into sales is of course another matter. Chima was available at a discount in the UK for a while, but then the same is true of ninjago and NK (and City and SW and LOTR ...).

[SirBlake]

TLG has demonstrated that AFOL service is a very low priority. There is the occasional bone tossed our direction, but for the most part, we do not factor into their plans. On a personal note, I have found that in my house, lack of product for me, which translates to me generally back-burner-ing my hobby has definitely had an impact on my daughter's interest. We've gotten a few sets over the last few years for her, but nowhere near what it once was, simply because we're not combing the Lego aisle like we once did, nor building together. Sad, really.

[x105Black]

8 hours ago, Murrig Icehammer said:

I think this says it all:

https://www.lego.com/en-us/castle/fallbackpage

In my opinion, LEGO seems to have no interest in reestablishing a classic styled Castle line in the forseeable future. I fear that themes which are not supported by other media, like a TV series or Movies won't attract enough kids these days. (Simply being fascinated about history/fantasy doesn't seem to be enough to keep kids interested, they need to be bombarded with a theme from several directions so it seems.)

But since i'm not a child anymore, i don't really care. But what are we AFOLs supposed to do now? Well nothing, except to hope the get some bits here and there in form of a special set every five years or so (if any, lol). There's one thing i don't really understand. Why does LEGO leave that market to other brands like the ones mentioned in the opening post, instead of releasing at least a small number of sets each year just to keep their AFOL customers (us) trust to LEGO and not have them buy some other brand (some which could be even harmful to our health, as much as i have heard) ?

Are we really THAT insignificant that LEGO can confidently ignore us? Don't get me wrong i just try to understand this matter.

-cheers!

First, that Castle page may change with Nexo Knights retiring.  Second, LEGO could just as easily create a TV series, web shorts, or even a LEGO Castle Movie about Castle to bring interest to the theme.  If done well, kids will watch and love.  If done really well, it will get parents and other adults interested in the same way that the LEGO Movie did.

So I'm still optimistic that true Castle could return.

[thetang22]

45 minutes ago, x105Black said:

LEGO could just as easily create a TV series, web shorts, or even a LEGO Castle Movie about Castle to bring interest to the theme.

This is pretty much the way I see it.

[Aanchir]

21 hours ago, Murrig Icehammer said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I think this says it all:

https://www.lego.com/en-us/castle/fallbackpage

In my opinion, LEGO seems to have no interest in reestablishing a classic styled Castle line in the forseeable future. I fear that themes which are not supported by other media, like a TV series or Movies won't attract enough kids these days. (Simply being fascinated about history/fantasy doesn't seem to be enough to keep kids interested, they need to be bombarded with a theme from several directions so it seems.)

But since i'm not a child anymore, i don't really care. But what are we AFOLs supposed to do now? Well nothing, except to hope the get some bits here and there in form of a special set every five years or so (if any, lol). There's one thing i don't really understand. Why does LEGO leave that market to other brands like the ones mentioned in the opening post, instead of releasing at least a small number of sets each year just to keep their AFOL customers (us) trust to LEGO and not have them buy some other brand (some which could be even harmful to our health, as much as i have heard) ?

Are we really THAT insignificant that LEGO can confidently ignore us? Don't get me wrong i just try to understand this matter.

-cheers!

A few things. First of all, when Nexo Knights came out, the 2013 Castle sets had already been discontinued for a full year. The fact that the website started to direct people towards a more current product at that point had more to do with the IMMEDIATE future than the foreseeable future. It's not as though LEGO kept their Bionicle or Pirates sites running the whole time those themes were off the shelves.

Second, LEGO themes in no way require a TV series or movies to stay relevant. LEGO City, one of the most successful themes year after year, has very little media support in the grand scheme of things. Generally, supplementary media is something LEGO does because it's a tool they have to make themes MORE successful, not because those themes can't be successful without it. Think of it like how LEGO puts short comic books in the Super Heroes sets. It's not like kids wouldn't buy the sets without those comic books. But as long as LEGO can afford to include them, they're a great way to give kids a stronger connection to the sets and theme.

LEGO already has a considerable number of products and initiatives aimed at AFOLs, all things considered. But AFOLs only make up a small fraction of LEGO fans, not nearly enough to support even a one-year, five– or six-set theme on their own. And the more you divide that category up the smaller it gets. Adults who are interested in castles? Sure, that might be a big enough audience to support a big exclusive set every few years. We got the MMV and Kingdoms Joust and Tower of Orthanc and Disney Castle, after all, along with several more kid-oriented castles in between. But adults who are interested in castles, but not Disney castles, and not Elves castles, and not Nexo Knights castles, and not Minecraft castles? That audience becomes smaller and smaller with each qualifier you add.

To an extent, the same goes for kids. It's obvious that LEGO knows and responds to how much kids like castle/medieval imagery and subject matter. As has been brought up in one of the other topics, there have been a veritable GLUT of sets with castles or dragons lately. In 2010 when the Kingdoms theme debuted, there were four sets containing castles or fortresses (King's Castle, Hogwarts Castle, and Battle of Alamut). Last year there were eight or nine between the Elves, Nexo Knights, Angry Birds, Disney, and Minecraft themes. Dragons are also very much in vogue. Perhaps they're not the kind of castles and dragons AFOLs grew up with, but the number of kids who are not only picky about castles and dragons, but picky in the same ways that AFOLs are, probably makes up a very small part of the audience for those types of sets.

None of this is to say that a more traditional Castle theme couldn't be just as appealing to kids. Just that it wouldn't be inherently MORE appealing to kids. LEGO can afford to pick and choose what type of "Castle" sets they want to release in any given year, and choosing to go with a more futuristic take for a few years is not any sort of value statement on more traditional Castle sets one way or the other. It just means that the designers wanted to try something they hadn't tried before and decided that 2016 was as good a time as any to do it.

[Murrig Icehammer]

6 hours ago, Aanchir said:

A few things. First of all, when Nexo Knights came out, the 2013 Castle sets had already been discontinued for a full year. The fact that the website started to direct people towards a more current product at that point had more to do with the IMMEDIATE future than the foreseeable future. It's not as though LEGO kept their Bionicle or Pirates sites running the whole time those themes were off the shelves.

Second, LEGO themes in no way require a TV series or movies to stay relevant. LEGO City, one of the most successful themes year after year, has very little media support in the grand scheme of things. Generally, supplementary media is something LEGO does because it's a tool they have to make themes MORE successful, not because those themes can't be successful without it. Think of it like how LEGO puts short comic books in the Super Heroes sets. It's not like kids wouldn't buy the sets without those comic books. But as long as LEGO can afford to include them, they're a great way to give kids a stronger connection to the sets and theme.

LEGO already has a considerable number of products and initiatives aimed at AFOLs, all things considered. But AFOLs only make up a small fraction of LEGO fans, not nearly enough to support even a one-year, five– or six-set theme on their own. And the more you divide that category up the smaller it gets. Adults who are interested in castles? Sure, that might be a big enough audience to support a big exclusive set every few years. We got the MMV and Kingdoms Joust and Tower of Orthanc and Disney Castle, after all, along with several more kid-oriented castles in between. But adults who are interested in castles, but not Disney castles, and not Elves castles, and not Nexo Knights castles, and not Minecraft castles? That audience becomes smaller and smaller with each qualifier you add.

To an extent, the same goes for kids. It's obvious that LEGO knows and responds to how much kids like castle/medieval imagery and subject matter. As has been brought up in one of the other topics, there have been a veritable GLUT of sets with castles or dragons lately. In 2010 when the Kingdoms theme debuted, there were four sets containing castles or fortresses (King's Castle, Hogwarts Castle, and Battle of Alamut). Last year there were eight or nine between the Elves, Nexo Knights, Angry Birds, Disney, and Minecraft themes. Dragons are also very much in vogue. Perhaps they're not the kind of castles and dragons AFOLs grew up with, but the number of kids who are not only picky about castles and dragons, but picky in the same ways that AFOLs are, probably makes up a very small part of the audience for those types of sets.

None of this is to say that a more traditional Castle theme couldn't be just as appealing to kids. Just that it wouldn't be inherently MORE appealing to kids. LEGO can afford to pick and choose what type of "Castle" sets they want to release in any given year, and choosing to go with a more futuristic take for a few years is not any sort of value statement on more traditional Castle sets one way or the other. It just means that the designers wanted to try something they hadn't tried before and decided that 2016 was as good a time as any to do it.

Yeah... but we're talking about castle here, not some other theme, like City or something similar. Nexo Knights seem to have replaced (historical) Castle theme for now. Not just that, the statement on their own page suggests that they are well aware that there are people loking for a more classical castle theme (in contrast to a Sci-fi/ Castle mix like Nexo knights), telling everyone that Nexo Knights has replaced Lego Castle. period.

That statement alone obviously suggests that there will be no Castle theme as long as Nexo Knights exists. Which is very sad IMHO.

Regarding to kids and other media, just look at Ninjago/ Star wars and many other themes many of them are present in other media. I'm not saying that it's impossibkle to have a theme without that, but it seems that there's much less risk involved to have some kind of other media involved. I also didn't mean that kids probably wouldn't like a Castle theme, but it's obviously the ppl. in charge who don't want to take that risk, especially since there are still LotR and The Hobbit sets (which are pretty expensive IMO).

And what do you mean with " the designers wanted to try something they hadn't tried before" ?

There where LOTS of Sci-Fi/ fantasy mixed themes before Nexo Knights came out. Even Ninjago has certain Sci-Fi influences (vehicles and bases afaik). To me, it appears that the designers rather wanted to play save instead of trying something new by introducing another Sci-Fi/Fantasy mixed theme, instead of going either full Sci-Fi or full Fantasy/Historical (which would consists 90% of the same themed sets for decades). But aside from that, why do themes always have to be in vogue? Does it always have to be tied in with something else? Are kids really THAT superficial and have no other interest aside from what pop Media tells them? Isn't Lego itself powerful enough to raise interest for certain themes in Kids minds?

Again guys, please don't take me wrong, i just try to understand the logic behind all this.

 

[BrickJagger]

12 minutes ago, Murrig Icehammer said:

That statement alone obviously suggests that there will be no Castle theme as long as Nexo Knights exists. Which is very sad IMHO.

IIRC we came to the conclusion about a month ago that Nexo will either end following this year or at the beginning of next year. Mark Stafford also said back in 2015 that regular Castle was taking a break for just a couple of years. I don't see a reason why we won't get it back in Summer 2018 or 2019. 

[Robert8]

2018 is still too soon

Summer 2019 is the earliest I can see a LEGO castle theme happening

[BrickJagger]

@Robert8 agreed. I believe that NK will receive at least one wave next year to wrap things up, but 2019 is a more realistic date.

[MAB]

10 hours ago, Murrig Icehammer said:

I also didn't mean that kids probably wouldn't like a Castle theme, but it's obviously the ppl. in charge who don't want to take that risk, especially since there are still LotR and The Hobbit sets (which are pretty expensive IMO).

 

 

There aren't any LOTR or Hobbit sets available now, and when they were their prices were pretty much in line with other similar lego sets.

Or do you mean LOTR and Hobbit sets on the secondary market? If so, there are plenty of classic castle sets still available on the secondary market too.