LEPIN ripping off STAR WARS MOCs

[DarthTwoShedsJackson]

I've been notified that LEPIN is now stealing MOCS from AFOLs to potentially make into sets.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lepin/comments/65c5o7/what_moc_would_you_love_to_see_lepin_make_next/

 

This is new for me, and I don't know if this has been done before, but it is pissing me off, seriously! Many of us make MOCS and post instructions for free, others make MOCS and sell instructions - you can have your opinion on each of the two ways to go about this, but a third party openly planning to make money from the work LEGO-fans have put into models for fun and the community is plain disgusting.

Have you seen this before? Has something been done about this in the past, or what can we do about this now? Removing LDD-files is an option, but this will also affect people who are fans themselves and would like to build other fans' models with their own LEGO-collection. I see LEPIN actively taking the fun out of MOCing here, and this needs to stop!

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by DarthTwoShedsJackson

[VaderFan2187]

WTF? More like "What MOC would you like Lepin to steal next?"

Well, they've been stealing AFOL MOCs for a while, not justifying it, but what to do? 

As a Chinese person I am embarrassed by them. Dishonest copycats, disgraceful!

/rant

[DarthTwoShedsJackson]

Just now, VaderFan2187 said:

As a Chinese person I am embarrassed by them.

Please, don't be - this has nothing to do with nationality or race, it's about what is being done.

[VaderFan2187]

.

Edited April 18, 2017 by VaderFan2187
Problems with loading image

[anothergol]

13 minutes ago, DarthTwoShedsJackson said:

I've been notified that LEPIN is now stealing MOCS from AFOLs to potentially make into sets.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lepin/comments/65c5o7/what_moc_would_you_love_to_see_lepin_make_next/

Well, give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it's just a post, and maybe they do consider licensing. Unlikely, -but- it's a possibility, (while licensing Lego sets, even if they had been willing to, would have been impossible. Ok, they're not gonna license Star Wars directly either.. but they could still reward the MOC's author).

It's the next step anyway, and I'd say, it's a -good- thing. MOCs generally look better than Lego sets, at least for the reason that Lego has to make theirs solid & kidproof.
Now imagine Lepin starting to release sets of the best MOCs out there, it may motivate Lego to care more about the look & less about sturdiness. Lego wasn't this obsesses with sturdiness years ago.
If Lepin releases, say Marshal Banana's Falcon, I'll buy it & pretend that Lego's ones have never existed.

 

I've been approached by more than one asian guys who wanted to turn MOCs into sets, btw. Whether it will be done all legally or not, it will happen, either because it's less expensive or because it's less risky. I'd be Lepin, I'd do 2 things:

-I'd release bags of parts in colors that Lego doesn't wanna produce anymore, for MOCers. I wouldn't use non-Lego stuff in MOCs, because that's kinda "the rules", but I'm ok using a copy of a Technic half bush in black, if it's exactly the same as an official one you'd buy on Bricklink the ridiculous price of 10eur.

-I'd take a look at Lego Ideas & make deals with authors of unreleased stuff. If Lego prefers to release a bunch of minifigs for feminists than this gem: https://ideas.lego.com/projects/48453, and Lepin produces it, I'll buy it!

 

[Bob De Quatre]

56 minutes ago, anothergol said:

I'd take a look at Lego Ideas & make deals with authors of unreleased stuff. If Lego prefers to release a bunch of minifigs for feminists than this gem: https://ideas.lego.com/projects/48453, and Lepin produces it, I'll buy it!

 

 

That's what Lepin actually do, taking a look at unreleased Ideas MOCs... and release them without any consent of the original builder.

[atlas]

My problem with lepin is if they don't make agreements with the people who created the work to begin with. Evidently they aren't doing that, just taking advantage of people who take the time to show how they made their creations. This is pretty shitty in my opinion.

Lego needs a competitor that is going to keep it on its toes - see the pending remake of the UCS millennium falcon which no doubt was spurred on by Lepin making a knock off of 10179. In this regard i agree with anothergol to a small extent. Lego takes advantage of the fact that in effect they have a complete monopoly.

Lego has 'unethical' practices as well. Every company by virtue of its existence is not producing things on an ethical basis, but that's another topic for debate.

Edited April 20, 2017 by atlas

[lego2lego]

55 minutes ago, atlas said:

My only problem with lepin is if they don't make agreements with the people who created the work to begin with. Evidently they aren't doing that, just taking advantage of people who take the time to show how they made their creations. This is pretty shitty in my opinion.

Lego needs a competitor that is going to keep it on its toes - see the pending remake of the UCS millennium falcon which no doubt was spurred on by Lepin making a knock off of 10179. In this regard i agree with anothergol to an extent. Lego takes advantage of the fact that in effect they have a complete monopoly.

Lego has 'unethical' practices as well. Every company by virtue of its existence is not producing things on an ethical basis, but that's another topic for debate.

The problem with LEPIN is that they steal! That's simple, they do not own or license the Star Wars IP. In fact they don't own any IP. They just copy and sell products that         another company has invested time and money in. Don't for a minute think the usage of the Star Wars IP comes cheap for LEGO (and yes, they earn a lot to, but investments must be made).

What you are saying is that's it's ok for them to blatantly steal from LEGO/DISNEY/PORSCHE etc, but should compensate AFOL for "using" their ideas? LEGO hasn't got a monopoly, it's like saying Ford has a monopoly on F150's and that's it's ok for another company to rip the design off and sell it for cheap.

LEPIN is a criminal company, the way I see it, and I hope that LEGO and the Chinese government will end their practises ASAP! At least Facebook has removed their official page, so it seems LEGO is making some headway. 

[All in the Reflexes]

Ive been approached a few times by random people about the LDD file for my UCS T-70 Xwing, other than handing it to someone like Cjd223 who puts a lot of effort into making the instructions, i wont hand it to anyone not well regarded in the AFOL community. Its a shame as its either Lepin making a profit from others hard work or some random on ebay selling your LDD ala Cavegod's ATAT or Anio's various models.

[atlas]

2 hours ago, lego2lego said:

The problem with LEPIN is that they steal! That's simple, they do not own or license the Star Wars IP. In fact they don't own any IP. They just copy and sell products that         another company has invested time and money in. Don't for a minute think the usage of the Star Wars IP comes cheap for LEGO (and yes, they earn a lot to, but investments must be made).

What you are saying is that's it's ok for them to blatantly steal from LEGO/DISNEY/PORSCHE etc, but should compensate AFOL for "using" their ideas? LEGO hasn't got a monopoly, it's like saying Ford has a monopoly on F150's and that's it's ok for another company to rip the design off and sell it for cheap.

LEPIN is a criminal company, the way I see it, and I hope that LEGO and the Chinese government will end their practises ASAP! At least Facebook has removed their official page, so it seems LEGO is making some headway. 

Well I don't really hold IP laws in a very high regard so that is not a concern for me. Lego and Disney are rolling in cash and their products leave much to be desired anyway, and that's without considering prices.

Anyway. For me the main problem here is a company profiting off the creative works of individuals. It is by no means an acceptable practice, but perspective is required. Lego aren't angels, they're a private company with profit as the primary interest as well, just because what they do is legally protected doesn't make it ethically acceptable either. All companies are thieves in one way or another.

 

[Tommy Styrvoky]

There was this topic started by members from the Technic forum, after some highly respected members had their models stolen by Lepin.

 

[FishW]

I pretty much agree with everyone here, it seems pretty low to be stealing other people's work without crediting them(at the very least, really they should get paid as they put the work into it). But realistically I don't think it can be stopped. Sure maybe they can shut down Lepin. But as long as there is money to be made there will always be people ripping off others work. I've never owned any Lepin so I can't say if they are quality or not, but I'm guessing they are made very cheaply. I could imagine bricks that are suppose to be the same color being different shades, or the pieces fitting to tight or being really loose. In some ways a little competition is probably good(IE Megablocks), but a "backdoor" company that shamelessly ripoffs MOCs made by dedicated Lego fans is pretty low. Disgusting even.

[koalayummies]

Anyone saying they'd support these thieves that undermine what we love because they're mad about women getting one set should be ashamed of themselves. 

Edited April 18, 2017 by koalayummies

[anothergol]

6 hours ago, lego2lego said:

what you are saying is that's it's ok for them to blatantly steal from LEGO/DISNEY/PORSCHE etc, but should compensate AFOL for "using" their ideas? LEGO hasn't got a monopoly, it's like saying Ford has a monopoly on F150's and that's it's ok for another company to rip the design off and sell it for cheap.

LEPIN is a criminal company, the way I see it, and I hope that LEGO and the Chinese government will end their practises ASAP! At least Facebook has removed their official page, so it seems LEGO is making some headway. 

I'm not saying it's ok, I'm saying that -even if Lepin wanted to-, they would obviously not be able to license Lego's designs, nor Star Wars (well, not for the chinese market).

Is it criminal, well that's how China works. Bootlegs are the norm there. If Lepin is a problem, it's only because they sell worldwide, thanks to aliexpress. Otherwise, China has always produced fakes for themselves and no one ever really cared that much, that's how the country works.
There's nothing new here, that is. Only that bootlegs are now more easily buyable. I find it weirder that Lepin sets pass customs safely, but that probably has to do with them being bagged "anonymously" (even though they do include manuals which are definitely copies).

I worked on software, and the joke about chinese distributors is that they want to buy *1* license and do the rest themselves :)
They don't care about intellectual property, that's just China.
 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, FishW said:

I've never owned any Lepin so I can't say if they are quality or not, but I'm guessing they are made very cheaply.

It's pretty good actually. Not the prints, but most of the parts are just like Lego, and in fact they look better because there's no logo on the studs. Minifigs suck, as well as some technic parts, they seem to have major problems with these.
I've built a super star destroyer, and only had problems with 1 plate. For 100 bucks.. and the satisfaction of not putting money in Lego's black market.

For recent sets I don't even see why Lepin would be worth it. They're not THAT cheaper, when official sets generally end up 50% cheaper during sales, and considering you have to pay custom taxes.

4 hours ago, atlas said:

Lego aren't angels

indeed and surely by now everyone knows that Lego was the first one to ripoff

Edited April 18, 2017 by anothergol

[Renegade Clone]

Without protection of intellectual property, many of the things we love would not exist. It would be anarchy. Star Wars would not be what it is today without some protection for its creator.

[anothergol]

1 hour ago, Renegade Clone said:

Without protection of intellectual property, many of the things we love would not exist. It would be anarchy. Star Wars would not be what it is today without some protection for its creator.

*with* proptection of intellectual property, Lego would not exist and you would be playing with Kiddicraft (or whatever before).

I like Lego (or I wouldn't be here) but it's dangerous when things become a cult. It's a company that doesn't seem to be any in danger right now, and it's in no way a charity, you shouldn't worry about them & they don't worry about you either, if they care about something it's your money. Same for Disney/Star Wars.

Plus, legal intellectual property isn't that old, and it wasn't "anarchy" before that.
Also, monopoly isn't that good either, which is why most forms of intellectual property are time-limited.

Moral intellectual property, that's different. Not crediting authors is pretty lame.
I'm not sure that Star Wars's end credits mention all the stuff that Lucas "borrowed", btw.

Edited April 18, 2017 by anothergol

[Franklinw1234]

Maybe notify them and say you don't want them to take your MOC. It is worth a try. The worst they could say is too bad we're going to make it anyway.

[Japanbuilder]

I was alerted to this practice by watching ChewieBricks channel on Youtube. I was aghast since it was not made clear if the creator had received any sort of compensation for their work. 

Sadly, I can also see a lot of people spending money on these sets. A lot of MOCs are fantastic and lepin prices are ... lepin prices ><

 

[Renegade Clone]

If you support Lepin, you are basically sponsoring thieves and criminals. Goodness knows what other criminal enterprises they are involved in!

Edited April 19, 2017 by Renegade Clone

[Justin]

LEPIN "Star Wnrs?" More like LEPIN "Star Lzrs!"

[DarthTwoShedsJackson]

8 hours ago, anothergol said:

*with* proptection of intellectual property, Lego would not exist and you would be playing with Kiddicraft (or whatever before).

 

Please don't take this personally, but I think you are comparing apples and oranges here, sort of. While I agree and everyone interested in LEGO and its history knows by now that they copied the brick system originally produced by kiddycraft, you should also take note that LEGO's brick system is NOT protected by copyright anymore, which I have no problem with. Also, while they copied the original brick system, LEGO has put a very substantial effort into designing, improving and engineering it into the high-quality, high-tech brick system we know and enjoy today - that is no small feat and needs to be acknowledged. With the system now open for other companies to reproduce, these companies benefit from the resources - financial, technological and brain-power - LEGO has put into making the system what it is today without much need to invest on their own.

Since you were talking about putting things into perspective, I thought it might be okay to also put these things into perspective in defense of LEGO.

[mortesv]

I agree with DarthTwo.

Besides, Lepin is a criminal company facing prosecution. Buying Lepin is a criminal offense, regardless how anyone feel about it.

However, when it comes to protecting the designs of moc'ers, I do not think there are any international laws to protect the community.

[lego2lego]

16 hours ago, atlas said:

Well I don't really hold IP laws in a very high regard so that is not a concern for me. Lego and Disney are rolling in cash and their products leave much to be desired anyway, and that's without considering prices.

Anyway. For me the main problem here is a company profiting off the creative works of individuals. It is by no means an acceptable practice, but perspective is required. Lego aren't angels, they're a private company with profit as the primary interest as well, just because what they do is legally protected doesn't make it ethically acceptable either. All companies are thieves in one way or another.

 

The fact that you don't hold IP-laws in very high regard doesn't make it any less illegal what LEPIN does! And your opinion of the quality of disney/lego products is pretty subjective wouldn't you say?? 

I never stated that Lego are angels, they are a company and want to make a profit, that's a given. But there is no basis for the assumption that ripping off an individual is deplorable and ripping of Lego is fine, because reasons...

As far as I can see Disney/Lego are pretty lenient with the AFOL community, and condone people selling instructions for Star Wars MOC's.

Anyway just my 2cents.

Edited April 19, 2017 by lego2lego

[anothergol]

3 hours ago, lego2lego said:

But there is no basis for the assumption that ripping off an individual is deplorable and ripping of Lego is fine, because reasons...

It's not fine, but it's only of Lego's concerns, it shouldn't be yours.
Lego stole, Disney stole (a lot!), having mercy for them on this subject only reminds me of a cult, which scares me. It's a toy company, mainly there for your money, and which has enough lawyers and doesn't need your mercy.
And to some here, it really looks like Chinese's view on intellectual property is new.. It's very old, and it's only happening now to Lego because Lego allowed a black market to inflate the price of something that costs nothing to produce. Costs nothing to produce bug is worth a lot? That sounds like luxury. And who's the best at producing fake luxury items? China.

& why has this been going for so long? Let's face it, the one who buys a fake Rolex, wouldn't have bought a real one. The one who buys a fake, retired Lego set, wouldn't have shelled 10x the price for a real one. There is no loss for Lego or Rolex here, all they care about is their image. It would suck for Rolex if every poor ghy was wandering with a fake that's undistinguishable from a real one, because rich people wouldn't wanna wear one anymore. Lego is worried about its image here, not losses. It's not like Lepin sets would start selling in your local toy store. What could Lego be scared of, here? Mmh let's think about it. The family who has bought Lego for so long, now realizes that another company is able to put (nearly) the same thing on the market, for 10x less, and still make a profit. They start to wonder why Lego costs so much, only now realizing that the production costs are negligible. That is what sucks for Lego.

The real problem here is not so old, it's Aliexpress. It's what allows you to buy all the crap that was previously hard to access. Otherwise, you'd have to be an a** to worry about Lepin selling in China itself, allowing chinese kids to possibly buy something they would normally not be able to afford. Lepin is doing it all for money, but so is Lego. When I was a kid I didn't own one brick separator (nowadays I must have 30 lying around), because Lego only puts them in large sets & my family was too poor for those. I quite hurt my teeth & fingers - yeah thanks for that, Lego, you do care so much about poor kids more than money :)
I don't see why an european would go buy a Lepin set that's a copy of a recent set, *when he can afford the real one*. Lepin is quite good but nowhere near Lego, plus I would never trust a Chinese company as for the toxicity of toys. Yet, when I was a kid, if that was Lepin or nothing, a large Lepin set or a 8eur Lego set because that's all my parents could afford, I'd have picked Lepin (which, again, wouldn't have happened, because custom taxes put the price of a medium Lepin set near a Lego one, anyway). And as a kid, I wouldn't have cared about intellectual property or whatever. Sucks for Lego, but hey, when you're in the luxury market, you've picked your side.

Edited April 19, 2017 by anothergol

[brobert]

53 minutes ago, anothergol said:

It's not fine, but it's only of Lego's concerns, it shouldn't be yours.
Lego stole, Disney stole (a lot!), having mercy for them on this subject only reminds me of a cult, which scares me. It's a toy company, mainly there for your money, and which has enough lawyers and doesn't need your mercy.
And to some here, it really looks like Chinese's view on intellectual property is new.. It's very old, and it's only happening now to Lego because Lego allowed a black market to inflate the price of something that costs nothing to produce. Costs nothing to produce bug is worth a lot? That sounds like luxury. And who's the best at producing fake luxury items? China.

& why has this been going for so long? Let's face it, the one who buys a fake Rolex, wouldn't have bought a real one. The one who buys a fake, retired Lego set, wouldn't have shelled 10x the price for a real one. There is no loss for Lego or Rolex here, all they care about is their image. It would suck for Rolex if every poor ghy was wandering with a fake that's undistinguishable from a real one, because rich people wouldn't wanna wear one anymore. Lego is worried about its image here, not losses. It's not like Lepin sets would start selling in your local toy store. What could Lego be scared of, here? Mmh let's think about it. The family who has bought Lego for so long, now realizes that another company is able to put (nearly) the same thing on the market, for 10x less, and still make a profit. They start to wonder why Lego costs so much, only now realizing that the production costs are negligible. That is what sucks for Lego.

The real problem here is not so old, it's Aliexpress. It's what allows you to buy all the crap that was previously hard to access. Otherwise, you'd have to be an a** to worry about Lepin selling in China itself, allowing chinese kids to possibly buy something they would normally not be able to afford. Lepin is doing it all for money, but so is Lego. When I was a kid I didn't own one brick separator (nowadays I must have 30 lying around), because Lego only puts them in large sets & my family was too poor for those. I quite hurt my teeth & fingers - yeah thanks for that, Lego, you do care so much about poor kids more than money :)
I don't see why an european would go buy a Lepin set that's a copy of a recent set, *when he can afford the real one*. Lepin is quite good but nowhere near Lego, plus I would never trust a Chinese company as for the toxicity of toys. Yet, when I was a kid, if that was Lepin or nothing, a large Lepin set or a 8eur Lego set because that's all my parents could afford, I'd have picked Lepin (which, again, wouldn't have happened, because custom taxes put the price of a medium Lepin set near a Lego one, anyway). And as a kid, I wouldn't have cared about intellectual property or whatever. Sucks for Lego, but hey, when you're in the luxury market, you've picked your side.

THIS. These are some very good points. This whole thing about Lepin vs. Lego is about one giant fighting really hard to twist the last dime out of someone else's hands. Lepin won't end, because Chinese courts won't ever recognize the theft, as they didn't when car manufacturers sued for stealing their car designs. I honestly don't see LEGO having much benefit out of shutting down Lepin. As you well wrote, the two products have a very different clientelle. People don't buy Lepin because they are Lepin fans, they buy it because it's available for them, because they are poor most likely. Anyone who could afford Lego but buys this crp, would be an idiot anyways.

Now of the topic itself of stealing MOC designs, that blows, but there's equally nothing anyone could do about it either I think. The real problem is someone is capitalizing on great ideas that were never meant to be sold, and couldn't be anyway because of IP-rights. If a company doesn't care if they carbon copy the product of a huge company, why would they care about one guy somewhere who doesn't have a hunredth of the resources (legally and otherwise).

The blowback of this for the community is that MOC-ers will be more secretive about their ideas everywhere, not releasing instructions or LDD files, so no one will share their ideas. Or sell their plans for money, which on my opinion just as appalling.