Are we getting less "themes"?

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Hello, is this only my concern?

In 2015 we had Architecture, Bionicle, City, Classic, Creator, Disney, Elves, Friends, Ideas, Jurassic World, Chima, Dimensions, Lego Movie, Minecraft, Mixels, Ninjago, Pirates, Scooby Doo, Simpsons, Speed Champions, Star Wars, Super Heroes, Technic, Ultra Agents, CMF TOTAL 25

In 2016 we had Angry Birds, Architecture, Bionicle, City, Classic (1 set only...), Creator, Disney, Elves, Friends, Ideas, Ghostbusters, Nexo Knights, Dimensions,  Minecraft, Mixels, Ninjago, Star Wars, Super Heroes, Technic, CMF TOTAL 21(4 less than 2015)

And now in 2017 we had Architecture, Brickheadz, City, DC Girls, Creator, Disney, Elves, Friends, Ideas, Batman Movie, Nexo Knights, Dimensions,  Minecraft, Ninjago, POTC (1 set only...), Star Wars, Super Heroes, Technic, CMF TOTAL 19 (2 less than 2016, 6 themes less than 2015)

Any ideas why this is happening? Your thoughts?

[zux]

You forgot to mention Duplo and Juniors for each year. Classic, Speed Champions and Mindstorm are still there in 2017. I see that some series ar expanding (like Disney), some series didn't get their own name (City miners). It looks like less series are getting more set per year.

Ghostbusters was clearly a one-off series in 2016.

Doesn't look so bad after all.

[RetroInferno]

I think the number fluctuates a bit but I also has that conception. Themes in general are a lot more niche than they used to be in my opinion; Elves, Duplo, Friends, Junior, Minecraft,  Angry Birds and City target a generally very young audience while Technic and Architecture are clearly aimed at AFOLs. 

I think there's a slight lack of themes that people of evey age loves like Ultra Agents, Adventurers and Castle. Lego's latest attempt at this was Nexo Knight

[Aanchir]

10 minutes ago, RetroInferno said:

I think the number fluctuates a bit but I also has that conception. Themes in general are a lot more niche than they used to be in my opinion; Elves, Duplo, Friends, Junior, Minecraft,  Angry Birds and City target a generally very young audience while Technic and Architecture are clearly aimed at AFOLs. 

I think there's a slight lack of themes that people of evey age loves like Ultra Agents, Adventurers and Castle. Lego's latest attempt at this was Nexo Knight

I'd disagree about Elves or Minecraft targeting a very young audience. Even the smallest Minecraft sets are aimed at ages 8 and up, with no upper age recommendation. Contrast this with City, Friends, Castle, and Pirates which are generally aimed at ages 5 and up, or Juniors and Classic which are aimed at ages 4 and up. I would consider all of those themes that target a very young audience; not so much Minecraft. Even some small Technic sets are only rated 7–14!

Elves is aimed at ages 7 and up, much like Ninjago or Nexo Knights. The recommended age range for Elves does cut off at age 12 (rather than 14 like most other 7+ play themes), but this is the case with all the girl-oriented themes, for reasons I don't fully understand. Maybe LEGO just isn't confident in their ability to market to teenage girls yet; I dunno. In any case I wouldn't call kids 7 and up "a very young audience" as far as LEGO is concerned, because most themes that AREN'T specifically aimed at TFOLs/AFOLs are aimed at either 4+, 5+, or 7+.

Target audience also doesn't in any way keep people of every age from loving a theme. As you point out, plenty of adults love Castle, even though hardly any Castle sets are aimed specifically at adults and most are aimed at fairly young children. Same goes for City. I think it's fair to say that Elves and Minecraft are loved by people of every age. If fewer adults love these themes than Castle or City, it's mostly because they simply haven't been around long enough for many adults to have played with them as children, not because the themes themselves are aimed any younger.

If I had to guess why there might be fewer themes this year, I'd assume it's in part because of the LEGO Batman Movie and LEGO Ninjago Movie demanding an unusual amount of attention and resources (even more than Super Heroes and Ninjago generally require). LEGO has less incentive to invest in short-lived movie licenses like Scooby-Doo, Jurassic World, Ghostbusters, and The Angry Birds movie when they have two movies of their own to capitalize on. Also, don't forget that for the past few years LEGO has had difficulty meeting demand for certain product lines, particularly during the holiday season. Reducing the number of themes frees up resources that can be redistributed to the themes that need those resources more.

However, I should point out that if you count The LEGO Batman Movie separately from Super Heroes, you should probably also count The LEGO Ninjago Movie separately from Ninjago. You didn't mention Speed Champions for 2016 or 2017 at all, even though it's had new sets in both of those years. Nor did you count LEGO Boost, which is new for this year. If you make those changes, then 2016 and 2017 each have 22 themes, just three fewer than 2015. Not nearly such a sharp or steady decline.

[BrickbyBrickTechnic]

This may be out of place, but  what is POTC?

[Umbra-Manis]

1 minute ago, BrickByBrick Official said:

This may be out of place, but  what is POTC?

Pirates Of The Caribbean  

[BrickbyBrickTechnic]

Just now, Umbra-Manis said:

Pirates Of The Caribbean  

Thank you so much ;)

[RetroInferno]

Well of course everything is relative, I've put Elves and Minecraft for a younger audience because the builds are quite simplistic but a lot of people play Minecraft so the audience may spread more. 

As for Technic I speak for myself, as a child I saw no interest at all in the theme, everything was not proportionnal, it looked skeletal and the lack of mini figs sealed the deal :)

 

[Aanchir]

51 minutes ago, RetroInferno said:

Well of course everything is relative, I've put Elves and Minecraft for a younger audience because the builds are quite simplistic but a lot of people play Minecraft so the audience may spread more. 

As for Technic I speak for myself, as a child I saw no interest at all in the theme, everything was not proportionnal, it looked skeletal and the lack of mini figs sealed the deal :)

The builds in Elves are anything but simplistic… Queen Dragon Rescue, the set with the highest recommended age range of the theme to date, uses loads of SNOT techniques to create the shape of its body. I'd say it's more complex than most Ninjago or Creator dragons. And the landscaping in that set is also fairly elaborate. Ragana's Magic Shadow Castle is easily as complex or more than $100 Castle/Kingdoms castle from the past ten years. And Aira's Airship and the Amulet Chase has an amazingly creative Technic function. The $10 Elves sets tend to be fairly simple, but that's usually the case with most themes.

[dr_spock]

7 hours ago, Aanchir said:

...

Elves is aimed at ages 7 and up, much like Ninjago or Nexo Knights. The recommended age range for Elves does cut off at age 12 (rather than 14 like most other 7+ play themes), but this is the case with all the girl-oriented themes, for reasons I don't fully understand. Maybe LEGO just isn't confident in their ability to market to teenage girls yet; I dunno...

Girls interests change by the time they get to the tweens years.  They seem to grow out some types of toys sooner than boys.  Do you have daughters that have gone through that transition phase?  One day they love Barbie and next day Barbie is going to the donation box.

[xboxtravis7992]

Less themes? I can hardly keep up with all the themes we have now so this is probably best for my wallet.

[BrickJagger]

I think we're suffering from a lack of the "Core themes", if you will. We don't have any kind of Pirate, Secret Agent, or Exploration related themes, and Space has been gone for almost half a decade. Nexo Knights is the closest thing we have to a traditional Medieval theme, and it's wacky in its own right.

For example, let's compare the "Core Themes" now to the "Core Themes" in 2009:

2017: City, Nexo Knights

2009: City, Fantasy Era, Space Police III, Power Miners, Agents, Pirates

Huge difference in terms of variety there. The sad truth is that most themes have been swallowed up by behemoth that is DC and Marvel. Those two have likely prevented many in-house themes from being put out thanks to the mass volume of products released from both lines. This year alone there are at least 64 Superhero-related sets, which is 64 more than 2009 saw. Not knocking fans of those themes, as I enjoy the movies myself, but Lego has gone a bit overboard with them since they were brought back in 2012.

[LEGOshibainu]

4 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

 

2017: City, Nexo Knights

2009: City, Fantasy Era, Space Police III, Power Miners, Agents, Pirates

 

This makes me very sad :(

[Robert8]

4 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

Huge difference in terms of variety there. The sad truth is that most themes have been swallowed up by behemoth that is DC and Marvel. Those two have likely prevented many in-house themes from being put out thanks to the mass volume of products released from both lines. This year alone there are at least 64 Superhero-related sets, which is 64 more than 2009 saw. Not knocking fans of those themes, as I enjoy the movies myself, but Lego has gone a bit overboard with them since they were brought back in 2012.

Preach!

Agreel. 100%.

---

But nowdays the in-house themes are more than just a bunch of sets. Nexo Knights, Friends and Elves all them have a TV show. Ninjago has a TV show and is getting a movie.

So they are fewer in-house themes because all of them have also presence on media. That takes a lot more of money and time. If they are investing that much in those themes, they probably don't want other themes to overlap or steal attention from them

 

[MAB]

5 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

Nexo Knights is the closest thing we have to a traditional Medieval theme, and it's wacky in its own right.

 

1

Or Ninjago. Just that it is Eastern rather than Western.

[General Magma]

I'd argue there are less traditional themes, too, which bothers and greatly concerns me.
We even don't have Castle anymore at the moment, just the weird Sci-Fi Fantasy Medieval blend that is Nexo Knights.

But worst of all, some themes are simply very rare or unseen after their initial incarnations and their comebacks are not as inevitable as one may hope.
Adventurers comes to mind here. Pharaoh's Quest was cool but.. that was 6 years ago. And none of those characters had any chance of becoming nearly as iconic
as Johnny Thunder, who was basically the face of LEGO adventurer themes back in the day. He was everywhere if it concerned adventuring, he was THE adventurer. They either need a new icon for this
or bring back Johnny Thunder in all his glory to represent adventurer sets, because LEGO City Jungle stuff does not justify any of this. It's just another City theme with some cool new pieces but boring characters without a real story.
NinjaGO, Chima, Nexo Knights, they honestly all scream the same thing to me. It's becoming a cliche within LEGO story themes - mix genres in a wacky way, have a good versus evil conflict, make a cartoon that might as well be any other 3D cartoon
because the only LEGO thing about it are the basic shapes of the figures. 

Gone seem the days of interesting historical themes with, at most, mild fantasy elements.
Johnny Thunder made his comeback in 2014 with The LEGO Movie, and has also appeared in one of the sets, which means that he's clearly on people's minds,
but we are left to wonder if we might ever see a comeback of the theme as a whole, with revamps of all the characters. 'The LEGO Adventurers Movie' would be a fantastic way to kick off a great sub-series within The LEGO Movie franchise
starring Johnny Thunder and his comrades Pippin Reed and Dr. Kilroy. That is potentially one of the best things they could do with the movie franchise in the coming few years, as it would also pave way for them to bring back 
already-famous LEGO characters and cater to both classic fans and younger audiences, setting the stage for the continuation of the stories of the legendary Johnny Thunder. We don't want no Jake Raines, we want Johnny Thunder back!

Edited March 7, 2017 by General Magma

[juno2023]

3 hours ago, General Magma said:

I'd argue there are less traditional themes, too, which bothers and greatly concerns me.
We even don't have Castle anymore at the moment, just the weird Sci-Fi Fantasy Medieval blend that is Nexo Knights.

But worst of all, some themes are simply very rare or unseen after their initial incarnations and their comebacks are not as inevitable as one may hope.
Adventurers comes to mind here. Pharaoh's Quest was cool but.. that was 6 years ago. And none of those characters had any chance of becoming nearly as iconic
as Johnny Thunder, who was basically the face of LEGO adventurer themes back in the day. He was everywhere if it concerned adventuring, he was THE adventurer. They either need a new icon for this
or bring back Johnny Thunder in all his glory to represent adventurer sets, because LEGO City Jungle stuff does not justify any of this. It's just another City theme with some cool new pieces but boring characters without a real story.
NinjaGO, Chima, Nexo Knights, they honestly all scream the same thing to me. It's becoming a cliche within LEGO story themes - mix genres in a wacky way, have a good versus evil conflict, make a cartoon that might as well be any other 3D cartoon
because the only LEGO thing about it are the basic shapes of the figures. 

Gone seem the days of interesting historical themes with, at most, mild fantasy elements.
Johnny Thunder made his comeback in 2014 with The LEGO Movie, and has also appeared in one of the sets, which means that he's clearly on people's minds,
but we are left to wonder if we might ever see a comeback of the theme as a whole, with revamps of all the characters. 'The LEGO Adventurers Movie' would be a fantastic way to kick off a great sub-series within The LEGO Movie franchise
starring Johnny Thunder and his comrades Pippin Reed and Dr. Kilroy. That is potentially one of the best things they could do with the movie franchise in the coming few years, as it would also pave way for them to bring back 
already-famous LEGO characters and cater to both classic fans and younger audiences, setting the stage for the continuation of the stories of the legendary Johnny Thunder. We don't want no Jake Raines, we want Johnny Thunder back!

This!!

Definitely missing the "traditional" themes. I'll admit that City seems to encapsulate much more than it used to, so an argument may be made that the "adventure" themes of yore are now dispersed between City (for a more realistic presentation) and the "wacky" themes defined already (Ninjago, Chima, Next Knights, etc.).

Licensed content is appearing to take a far larger market share as of late. The aggressive push into digital also seems to have an impact: mostly licensed content due to cross-promotional opportunity such as with the release of a movie, but even things like Lego City Undercover are infused with Chase McCain included in City sets.

Side note: I definitely do want to see more of Chase McCain. And certainly Johnny Thunder (fingers crossed for a greater presence in TLM2). Why not Clutch Powers?

[bobasdad]

One of the unfortunate side effects of becoming an adult is a tendancy to categorize things.  Children typically don't do that.  We (as adults) look at a theme like Nexo Knights and immediately try to fit it into a predefined category.  We say, "Is this a Castle theme or a Space theme?"  Children (my children, at least) aren't concerned with categories.  They look at Nexo Knights and say, "Robot knights!  Cool!"  I would argue that Lego's transition from traditional themes (those that fit easily into a defined category) to braoder, more difficult to define themes is simply the natural evolution of the brand.

[Aanchir]

23 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

I think we're suffering from a lack of the "Core themes", if you will. We don't have any kind of Pirate, Secret Agent, or Exploration related themes, and Space has been gone for almost half a decade. Nexo Knights is the closest thing we have to a traditional Medieval theme, and it's wacky in its own right.

For example, let's compare the "Core Themes" now to the "Core Themes" in 2009:

2017: City, Nexo Knights

2009: City, Fantasy Era, Space Police III, Power Miners, Agents, Pirates

Huge difference in terms of variety there. The sad truth is that most themes have been swallowed up by behemoth that is DC and Marvel. Those two have likely prevented many in-house themes from being put out thanks to the mass volume of products released from both lines. This year alone there are at least 64 Superhero-related sets, which is 64 more than 2009 saw. Not knocking fans of those themes, as I enjoy the movies myself, but Lego has gone a bit overboard with them since they were brought back in 2012.

I wouldn't necessarily call secret agent or exploration themes "core themes". LEGO has done three different secret agent themes, but it's hard to tell whether that's enough to qualify it as a staple like Castle or Space. And I hesitate to lump "exploration themes" together; for instance, I normally think of "underwater" and "underground" themes as their own discrete categories.

This also raises the question: how long does a theme have to be around to be considered a "core theme"? Could Ninjago or Friends or Elves be considered "core themes" that are still in their first incarnations? Or can a theme not be considered "core" until it's been retired and come back with a new name and characters? Ninjago in particular has been running for six years, and for the past two years or so it's been considered "evergreen". Friends has been running for five years, and likewise doesn't show any signs of stopping.

I wouldn't blame DC or Marvel for this perceived shift. 50% of the superhero sets this year are tied to The LEGO Batman Movie, which is probably getting as many sets as it is because it's a LEGO cinematic universe theme, not because it's a superhero theme. Last year, a more typical non-movie year, DC and Marvel combined had a mere 34 sets, considerably less than City, Friends, or Nexo Knights.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Aanchir

[BrickJagger]

On March 7, 2017 at 9:08 PM, Aanchir said:

I wouldn't necessarily call secret agent or exploration themes "core themes". LEGO has done three different secret agent themes, but it's hard to tell whether that's enough to qualify it as a staple like Castle or Space. And I hesitate to lump "exploration themes" together; for instance, I normally think of "underwater" and "underground" themes as their own discrete categories.

This also raises the question: how long does a theme have to be around to be considered a "core theme"? Could Ninjago or Friends or Elves be considered "core themes" that are still in their first incarnations? Or can a theme not be considered "core" until it's been retired and come back with a new name and characters? Ninjago in particular has been running for six years, and for the past two years or so it's been considered "evergreen". Friends has been running for five years, and likewise doesn't show any signs of stopping.

I wouldn't blame DC or Marvel for this perceived shift. 50% of the superhero sets this year are tied to The LEGO Batman Movie, which is probably getting as many sets as it is because it's a LEGO cinematic universe theme, not because it's a superhero theme. Last year, a more typical non-movie year, DC and Marvel combined had a mere 34 sets, considerably less than City, Friends, or Nexo Knights.

Addressing the "core themes" comment: I was referring to Lego's old guard of general topics they would consistently return to in some form, i.e. Adventure related, Secret Agent related, etc. Nowadays they seem to promote more big-budget in-house stuff, which I see as a downgrade.

[Peppermint_M]

You know, that old cycle of themes are in-house "big bang" themes, just as much as Ninjago started as and Nexo Knights is. Trends change in entertainment media and that changes the stories and settings that kids like. 

These themes are a successful attempt at what LEGO tried years ago with Galidor (TV series and toys), with less risk as the costly media is produced by partners and not in house by TLG themselves. 

[Aanchir]

22 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

Addressing the "core themes" comment: I was referring to Lego's old guard of general topics they would consistently return to in some form, i.e. Adventure related, Secret Agent related, etc. Nowadays they seem to promote more big-budget in-house stuff, which I see as a downgrade.

I sorta gathered that; it's just that to me "the old guard" generally encompasses theme categories from the 80s and early 90s like Town, Castle, Space, Pirates, and maybe underwater (I was a big fan of Aquazone as a kid, but I feel like it's not considered a "classic" among AFOLs to the same extent as the others I've mentioned). Your inclusion of "secret agent", which wasn't represented in the LEGO portfolio until 2001, seemed at odds with that. It made me question my habit of drawing the line at the turn of the century, which in turn made me wonder whether it makes sense to draw a line at any arbitrary point at all.

Anything you consider a "core theme" was at some point, in one way or another, a new and radical departure from what had come before. Was there something uniquely "core" about them when they were initially conceived, or did they only become "core themes" with the passage of time? And if the latter, how many years exactly does it take for that to happen? Ninjago is nearly as old today as "secret agent" themes were in 2008 when the Agents theme made its debut, and compared to that category which has existed in fits and starts, Ninjago has been a fairly stable presence.

It's worth noting that while themes like Ninjago, Legends of Chima, and Nexo Knights are pretty novel by LEGO standards, they belong to genres that have been established in pop culture since at least the 80s (action cartoons like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Thundercats, He-Man, and Visionaries). Elves, for that matter, has a lot of narrative DNA from much older fantasy adventure series like The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, and The Chronicles of Narnia, in which human children from our world go on adventures in magical, colorful fairylands. So as original as these themes are and as much development goes into their storylines, it's not as though they are dreamed up by LEGO without any sort of outside context or precedent to draw from.

[ProvenceTristram]

All I know is that LOTR got the shaft one wave too soon. We never got a Minas Tirith, a Mt. Doom set, and about 10 or so very major (re: essential) characters.

[LAKAbricks]

A core theme is to me a theme that is being developed contiously over a longer range of years. The theme might not get new sets every year, but then the next year. In the "good old days" (80s/90s) themes like Town, Space, Castle and Pirates were core themes. Back then even Train was a core theme. A theme living for a couple of years, just to be discontinued and then relaunched after several years is not a core theme in my eyes. Recurring theme might be a better term.

Themes like Ninjago and Friends I see a core themes. Chima I thought was going to be one. Now let us see where Elves and Nexo Knights are headed. City and Technic are the Eternal Themes

[Blondie-Wan]

On 3/7/2017 at 5:02 AM, General Magma said:

I'd argue there are less traditional themes, too, which bothers and greatly concerns me.
We even don't have Castle anymore at the moment, just the weird Sci-Fi Fantasy Medieval blend that is Nexo Knights.

But worst of all, some themes are simply very rare or unseen after their initial incarnations and their comebacks are not as inevitable as one may hope.
Adventurers comes to mind here. Pharaoh's Quest was cool but.. that was 6 years ago. And none of those characters had any chance of becoming nearly as iconic
as Johnny Thunder, who was basically the face of LEGO adventurer themes back in the day. He was everywhere if it concerned adventuring, he was THE adventurer. They either need a new icon for this
or bring back Johnny Thunder in all his glory to represent adventurer sets, because LEGO City Jungle stuff does not justify any of this. It's just another City theme with some cool new pieces but boring characters without a real story.
NinjaGO, Chima, Nexo Knights, they honestly all scream the same thing to me. It's becoming a cliche within LEGO story themes - mix genres in a wacky way, have a good versus evil conflict, make a cartoon that might as well be any other 3D cartoon
because the only LEGO thing about it are the basic shapes of the figures. 

Gone seem the days of interesting historical themes with, at most, mild fantasy elements.
Johnny Thunder made his comeback in 2014 with The LEGO Movie, and has also appeared in one of the sets, which means that he's clearly on people's minds,
but we are left to wonder if we might ever see a comeback of the theme as a whole, with revamps of all the characters. 'The LEGO Adventurers Movie' would be a fantastic way to kick off a great sub-series within The LEGO Movie franchise
starring Johnny Thunder and his comrades Pippin Reed and Dr. Kilroy. That is potentially one of the best things they could do with the movie franchise in the coming few years, as it would also pave way for them to bring back 
already-famous LEGO characters and cater to both classic fans and younger audiences, setting the stage for the continuation of the stories of the legendary Johnny Thunder. We don't want no Jake Raines, we want Johnny Thunder back!

I'd be happy to have any classic "adventure"-type theme back, whether with Johnny, Jake, or Indy. Fortunately, I think we're likely to at least get that latter, licensed adventurer back when the next movie comes in a couple years, and I can't quite believe LEGO is completely done with its own in-house adventure themes forever, either.