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What are you thoughts on suspension in a model?

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If you have suspension linkage parts do you always include them in your model? 

As some of you know, I just got the Acros truck, I already built it and already have it in pieces with plans to build and modify the B-model.  This set was my first one with suspension, my initial thoughts were, eh, not the most exciting.  But I do know that some vehicles, suspension is like the key point of the model.  For the Acros truck, sure suspension is nice, but I do not think it is necessary.  All the other models I have built, without any kind of suspension, were much more rigid and did not have any kind of flexibility in the chassis.  The chassis needs to be super strong for the model to be a success in my opinion.  

Now, sure, adding suspension to your model adds to the complexity and I get why you would want to add it to your model.  Don't get me wrong, I am not saying not to put it in.  I think models with suspension (LEGO or non-LEGO) are much more realistic.  

Also, if the way the suspension was implemented in 42043 was not the strongest and that's maybe the reason why the model felt like it had a ton of flex, tell me how I can strengthen it for my future builds.  

Enough of me rambling on, I want to know what your thoughts are.  

Happy building

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I feel that suspension is a must in a scale model, and that it should replicate the source material as accurately as possible. And for suspension to work accurately the chassis of the model must have adequate strength. 

Take my Arocs chassis for instance:

28316657911_6373bbec96_c.jpg

It is built in such a way as to provide structural rigidity while staying very compact. And the suspension is almost an exact replica of the real truck. (That is also an old photo, quite a bit has changed to make it even stronger.)

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Are you building for realism or playability?  And if playability, what kind?

It's not an absolute choice of one vs. the other.  But more realism in suspension often means less playability.  :classic:

Examples...

Building an RC vehicle to drive on an entirely flat floor?  Suspension is probably best left out.  It's likely more fragile, won't survive crashes so well, makes the drive train more complex, and might be less performant (some types of suspension make power hop and similar issues more likely)

Building a fully RC crawler?  Yeah, it needs suspension.  But the most realistic suspension is maybe not the most performant, or robust.

Building a near-scale model of some real vehicle?  Then you need the suspension the real vehicle has, or close to it. :wink: And it might be fragile, depending on how strong you can make it with Technic parts, or it makes the drive train fragile.

But that's just my £0.02.  The more you build, the more you form your own views on stuff.  :wink:

My kids re-enact the 'Highway Thru Hell' TV show all the time with the Arocs and the 8285 Wrecker.  They rip the suspension off the Arocs regularly, the 8285 doesn't have any suspension, so the wheels stay on that.  But the Arocs suspension is neat, the set would be much poorer without it.  So eh :tongue: 

Edited by andythenorth

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Personally, I would never build a car without suspension, because suspension setups are my main interest.

But. Lego is all about making 'models'. And to me (sorry, I have an engineering background) 'model' means: Simplification of a system (or thing) that brings about one or more aspects of that system's (or thing's) nature. Models allow us to zoom in on certain aspects while leaving other aspects out. So it's all about what exactly do you want to tell with your model.

So from that perspective I think it's perfectly valid to leave out suspension and focus on the things that matter to you.

One way to reduce flex / play in suspension setups is to brace suspension arms properly. For example by extending their width to at least three studs. Or by making sure the suspension arm is secured at both sides and not with a single liftarm inside the (6L) suspension arm as is the case in the 42056 set. In stock LEGO sets suspension setups are rarely braced well.

EDIT: It is often said that it does not make sense to secure suspension arms well, because you will never be able to compensate for the slack in standard LEGO wheel hubs. However slack in wheel hubs and slack in suspension arms add up, so securing the suspension arms properly will always make a difference.

Edited by Didumos69

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I'm not a model guy... Not even MOC builder) But i just can't build something without suspension. For me it's like a puzzle almost every time: "How i can make this type of suspension with given scale". Only when i get something that working nicely - i may be impressed by results, so i build some bodywork. And some of my suspension setups just saved somewhere inside my head without any bodywork)

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7 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

Personally, I would never build a car without suspension, because suspension setups are my main interest.

 

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So to reply to all, Suspension is just another thing you can add to your model.  It makes the model more realistic and/or if the model needs in.  

The reason I started this was because I was disappointed with the suspension in 42043.  I could try to make it better, but I have no idea how to do suspension, so I will have to learn as I go.  

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There are many good ways to do suspension, and a lot of them don't use the standard shock absorbers. NicJasno has some excellent designs that use 1x and 2x plates to simulate leaf springs, and there are also walking beam type suspensions that allow full axle movement but don't move up and down so much, which is perfect for a big heavily loaded truck.

As long as all the wheels stay on the ground all the time, the suspension is successful.

 

 

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I have some experience making suspended vehicles (despite that not all of them have worked as planned), i think that suspension systems in a model are defined by the type of vehicle of the model and its size and weight, i have made some vehicles similar in size to the Arocs and other in bigger size, and the suspension system and chassis twisting or rigidity would be built depending of the real vehicle characteristics, for example, most of the pickups in the market have almost not chassis twisting, just a couple of degrees, so, if i would make a pickup, i would try to recreate the same characteristics, the chassis would be very rigid, sometimes studded for even less twisting, and the suspension would be the same as the real vehicle; but in the case it was a bigger truck, then it would be different, most of the trucks that i wanted to recreate tend to have some twisting of the chassis because of their size, weight and suspension system, and because of that, i made the trucks with twisting-ability for the chassis in the longitudinal axis, but try to avoid bending when they got load on them, and i have learned to improve most of the mistakes that i would have done in the past, right now i know some ways to make a more rigid chassis, the best placing for the shock absorbers and designs of suspension systems, that is why i think that the suspension design is dependent of the type, weight and size of the model.

About the Arocs suspension, the size and type of the vehicle to recreate might not suit well for such small scale if it is intended to keep a suspensions system, because the truck is to heavy, the shock absorbers are to stiff and the chassis is very weak, which results in too much twisting and bending, some improvements could reduce this problem, for example, i would make a different kind of suspension which wouldn't require too much space or even remove it and change it to fixed axles, i would make the chassis more rigid by putting more beams and diagonal reinforcements (like in the 8110), this way the truck would be more robust for its size, but this is just a personal thought, i am sure there will be people which maybe easier and better ideas to improve it.

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