[MOC] 1:8 Scale Scorpion CK-R Supercar

[Dafgek81]

Well, I wont support commercial knockoff parts. But 3D printed parts, from non commercial enthusiasts like Efferman, ment for small scale use, I don't see a big problem. I bought his clamshell buckets from Shapeways because I wanted to finish my Actros with a good looking buckets. The clamshell buckets from the Arocs are way to small. TLG won't make bigger ones just for a few big trucks made out off Lego in this world. I also had custom stickers made, TLG doesn't make stickers in that big scale 1:13,

[nychase]

Alright so now I'm being called out but I really wasn't trying to start a battle here.  

Eric and Jay are right, there is a large difference between using parts that is known to be lego compatible and in no way mistakable for authentic (i.e. Firgelli on Jennifer Clarks Demag which is what i'm being called out for) vs these blatant knockoffs of real parts.  I really was trying to highlight the bigger issue here rather than just the one case with the one white version.   Do any of us really want to start receiving knock off parts???  Does anyone here actually check if all their bushes are REAL lego....probably not, but you would feel real stupid if you paid 2 or 3 dollars for fake black half bushes.

Bottom line, I love the model, wasn't meaning to offend anyone, just trying to adjust everyone to the harsh reality that our prized collections stand a real chance at being alot less valuable if we let these knock-offs invade our world and dilute the brand we all love. 

 

 

[Blakbird]

Thanks for the opinions everyone, but let's get this thread back on topic: the Scorpion supercar.

[brickhank]

2 hours ago, Blakbird said:

Thanks for the opinions everyone, but let's get this thread back on topic: the Scorpion supercar.

I agree and I will start:

I started the build this Sunday and am currently @ page 61 of the instructions. I have to say I am already really impressed by the shifting mechanism and the sturdiness of the chassis ! @Paul Boratko really engineered this well ! It's much better than the original LEGO Porsche and even @Didumos69 ultimate playable version of it (no offence @Didumos69, you really did a great job in getting the most out of the Porsche within the boundaries of the model, whereas the Scorpion was build up from scratch )

(and I am also following your Rugged Hammerhead Supercar with interest... )

[Dafgek81]

It's still a great model!!!!

[davebarrett]

On 28/01/2017 at 1:35 PM, brickhank said:

Just received the last of my ordered missing parts for this MOC; of course these were the infamous Connector #3 parts...

Supply on Bricklink is still quite low and scattered (a lot of sellers have only 1 or 2 available). Luckily I was able to get my hands on some from a German eBay supplier

Looking forward to begin the build (after having disassembled the Porsche)

The #3 connectors are available from Bricks and Pieces (didn't show up on site, but when I called up they let me order them).

[Didumos69]

11 hours ago, brickhank said:

I agree and I will start:

I started the build this Sunday and am currently @ page 61 of the instructions. I have to say I am already really impressed by the shifting mechanism and the sturdiness of the chassis ! @Paul Boratko really engineered this well ! It's much better than the original LEGO Porsche and even @Didumos69 ultimate playable version of it (no offence @Didumos69, you really did a great job in getting the most out of the Porsche within the boundaries of the model, whereas the Scorpion was build up from scratch )

(and I am also following your Rugged Hammerhead Supercar with interest... )

Don't worry @brickhank, I know the main structure of the Porsche is a flaw. I'm happy you know the difference now. @Paul Boratko is a great chassis-builder (also a great bodywork builder even though I'm not very keen on the looks of this particular model). In the end my mods only treated symptoms and not the actual cause. Also for me it was a good choice to move one to my next build.

This brings me to another subject. If I'm correct the gearbox of the Scorpion uses red clutch gears also for trasferring drive on axles rotating at different speed. It also uses quite some gears spread throughout the rear half oft the chassis. So my question to the ones that have build this model is: How does the gearbox perform when it comes to friction? Is it easy to get everything to run smoothly?

Edited February 8, 2017 by Didumos69

[brickhank]

13 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

Don't worry @brickhank, I know the main structure of the Porsche is a flaw. I'm happy you know the difference now. @Paul Boratko is a great chassis-builder (also a great bodywork builder even though I'm not very keen on the looks of this particular model). In the end my mods only treated symptoms and not the actual cause. Also for me it was a good choice to move one to my next build.

This brings me to another subject. If I'm correct the gearbox of the Scorpion uses red clutch gears also for trasferring drive on axles rotating at different speed. It also uses quite some gears spread throughout the rear half oft the chassis. So my question to the ones that have build this model is: How does the gearbox perform when it comes to friction? Is it easy to get everything to run smoothly?

Up until my current build status, everything seems to be running quite smoothly. I will keep monitoring during finalization and report my findings here.

[Meatman]

7 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

This brings me to another subject. If I'm correct the gearbox of the Scorpion uses red clutch gears also for trasferring drive on axles rotating at different speed. It also uses quite some gears spread throughout the rear half oft the chassis. So my question to the ones that have build this model is: How does the gearbox perform when it comes to friction? Is it easy to get everything to run smoothly?

I have my Scorpion model right here in front of me on my coffee table. When the car is in first gear(which has he most resistance) I can effortlessly roll the car forwards and backwards(just like Paul does in his video). In fact, I almost rolled it right off the table. Like Eric said the model really is professionally designed all around. The gearbox is smooth and when you shift gears, you really feel like you just shifted a gear.

[brickhank]

7 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

Don't worry @brickhank, I know the main structure of the Porsche is a flaw. I'm happy you know the difference now. @Paul Boratko is a great chassis-builder (also a great bodywork builder even though I'm not very keen on the looks of this particular model). In the end my mods only treated symptoms and not the actual cause. Also for me it was a good choice to move one to my next build.

This brings me to another subject. If I'm correct the gearbox of the Scorpion uses red clutch gears also for trasferring drive on axles rotating at different speed. It also uses quite some gears spread throughout the rear half oft the chassis. So my question to the ones that have build this model is: How does the gearbox perform when it comes to friction? Is it easy to get everything to run smoothly?

@Didumos69: I agree on the bodywork of this Scorpion. I personally like the shape of @Jeroen Ottens DB11 better and I'm anxiously awaiting his final release of the parts list and instructions. In the meantime it's well worth building @Paul Boratko's really nice Scorpion CK MOC. (the bodywork preference is more of a personal taste thing than a matter of bad design...). 

[Meatman]

What I like about the look and design of this model is when you have it built and it is sitting in front of you, it feels like a real model that you would get from Lego because of the many clever techniques used and the model is very solid. I've built several other MOCs by builders who had models that looked great, but they turned out to be very flimsy(body, doors, chassis, etc.) Every time you pick them up something would fall off, panels or pieces had to be positioned properly on friction pins, not to mention illegal or questionable building connections. It is especially frustrating when you pay for instructions and things don't work like they do in the videos they present.

I too am very interested in building Jeroen's model as well.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Meatman

[Kumbbl]

I'm curious if i will enjoy Building this great model as much as Nat Kuipers Predator ...

but what i see and what i read is very promising...especially the comments of you, Meatman...

thanks again for the free BI!!

[Meatman]

27 minutes ago, Kumbbl said:

I'm curious if i will enjoy Building this great model as much as Nat Kuipers Predator ...

but what i see and what i read is very promising...especially the comments of you, Meatman...

thanks again for the free BI!!

IMO, it's on par with the NK Predator which is probably the best Lego Like supercar out there. I've built 5 of Paul's cars and this one is hands down the best he has done. You can see the evolution of his skill throughout each build. This model has something that Lego's own Porsche model was severely lacking and that is playability. In this model it's not hard to change gears and you are not stressing or bending the parts when you do so. Not to mention you can actually see what is happens after you do change gears. The HOG steering is easy to use and the suspension is not dead(which is something that I am highly pissed about in the front of my Porsche). You won't be disappointed.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Meatman

[Lipko]

1 hour ago, Meatman said:

What I like about the look and design of this model is when you have it built and it is sitting in front of you, it feels like a real model that you would get from Lego because of the many clever techniques used and the model is very solid. I've built several other MOCs by builders who had models that looked great, but they turned out to be very flimsy(body, doors, chassis, etc.) Every time you pick them up something would fall off, panels or pieces had to be positioned properly on friction pins, not to mention illegal or questionable building connections. It is especially frustrating when you pay for instructions and things don't work like they do in the videos they present.

I too am very interested in building Jeroen's model as well.

It would be nice to see a list of these MOCs (the flimsy and the good). I can't afford to build all the popular models to try it myself, but this means I can't judge my own models compared to the others. All I can tell is that my models are simpler than the average.

[Blakbird]

49 minutes ago, Lipko said:

It would be nice to see a list of these MOCs (the flimsy and the good). I can't afford to build all the popular models to try it myself, but this means I can't judge my own models compared to the others. All I can tell is that my models are simpler than the average.

This is tough one.  I have built A LOT of models from many builders, and I certainly have an opinion on them.  However, rating them according to which are better seems harsh to me since I don't want to discourage anyone because their MOCs are "not as good" as someone else's.  I suppose this is what reviews are for, but nowhere near all MOCs have reviews.  In general, MOCs which use a lot of System parts at strange angles to approve appearance are likely to be less durable.

FWIW Lipko, your models are very sturdy.  Arguably your V-12 couple was too sturdy.  ;-)

[davebarrett]

Is the body work tougher than the Assassin model? I built the Assassin a while ago and, though the chassis seemed solid, the bodywork felt either wobbly or would detach easily (it's a long time ago, can't remember which). Didn't have this problem with the Predator or the Porsche set.

[Meatman]

1 hour ago, davebarrett said:

Is the body work tougher than the Assassin model? I built the Assassin a while ago and, though the chassis seemed solid, the bodywork felt either wobbly or would detach easily (it's a long time ago, can't remember which). Didn't have this problem with the Predator or the Porsche set.

Having all four of those models here right now I can say that it is definitely tougher than the assassin model. The problem you are describing sounds like when you open the rear end area. It is only attached and supported by 2 axles and when opened is kind of wobbly and shuts easily if you bump it. There is just too much mass here. The rest of the body seems fine. Unlike the Predator model, you can pick the Scorpion model up any way that you want, front and back or by the sides. I had forgotten until I took pictures with my Scorp and the Predator side by side that you can't pick the Predator up by the sides without the system bricks falling off. I kept doing this and had to keep replacing them over and over and would tell myself "Stop picking it up like that!" and would do it again anyway. Unless you built your Predator differently than mine, you also may have also run into this problem. I have an issue with the Porsche too, like those long flex axles on the sides of the roof that are connected together by the axle joiner. They seem like they are always coming apart. It may sound stupid, but the orange flex axles feel looser than the other colors to me. The Porsche overall is pretty solid except in a few areas, but the downfall is that it weighs quite a bit. And I don't know about your model, but the front suspension in my Porsche is completely dead which I blame on a poor structural design. They should have had 4 shocks in the front.

If people don't like the looks of the Scorpion, they can always build the excellent chassis and do their own body work. You can no doubt pick up some great ideas from this moc.  And besides, the instructions are free. I am thinking about building a second chassis and trying my hand at my own body design for it.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Meatman

[brickhank]

9 hours ago, Meatman said:

Having all four of those models here right now I can say that it is definitely tougher than the assassin model. The problem you are describing sounds like when you open the rear end area. It is only attached and supported by 2 axles and when opened is kind of wobbly and shuts easily if you bump it. There is just too much mass here. The rest of the body seems fine. Unlike the Predator model, you can pick the Scorpion model up any way that you want, front and back or by the sides. I had forgotten until I took pictures with my Scorp and the Predator side by side that you can't pick the Predator up by the sides without the system bricks falling off. I kept doing this and had to keep replacing them over and over and would tell myself "Stop picking it up like that!" and would do it again anyway. Unless you built your Predator differently than mine, you also may have also run into this problem. I have an issue with the Porsche too, like those long flex axles on the sides of the roof that are connected together by the axle joiner. They seem like they are always coming apart. It may sound stupid, but the orange flex axles feel looser than the other colors to me. The Porsche overall is pretty solid except in a few areas, but the downfall is that it weighs quite a bit. And I don't know about your model, but the front suspension in my Porsche is completely dead which I blame on a poor structural design. They should have had 4 shocks in the front.

If people don't like the looks of the Scorpion, they can always build the excellent chassis and do their own body work. You can no doubt pick up some great ideas from this moc.  And besides, the instructions are free. I am thinking about building a second chassis and trying my hand at my own body design for it.

I agree about the original Porsche, but have you tried the ultimate playable version of Didumos ? It's a great improvement in many areas such as shifting mechanism, and not to forget the (front) suspension...

I like your idea of making a personal body design, but before I begin experimenting with that I still have to learn and get more experience from building more of the great MOCs found here. Currently on my To-Do list: finishing Paul's Scorpion CK, definitely Jeroen's DB11 !, and probably Didumos Hammerhead Super car... 

[Didumos69]

17 hours ago, Meatman said:

I have my Scorpion model right here in front of me on my coffee table. When the car is in first gear(which has he most resistance) I can effortlessly roll the car forwards and backwards(just like Paul does in his video). In fact, I almost rolled it right off the table. Like Eric said the model really is professionally designed all around. The gearbox is smooth and when you shift gears, you really feel like you just shifted a gear.

 

15 hours ago, Meatman said:

In this model it's not hard to change gears and you are not stressing or bending the parts when you do so. Not to mention you can actually see what is happens after you do change gears. The HOG steering is easy to use and the suspension is not dead(which is something that I am highly pissed about in the front of my Porsche).

Great! I hope my rugged supercar will be received as something that can live up to the same level of rigidity and operational 'feel'.

[brickhank]

Hi @Paul Boratko: After finishing the chassis and connecting the wheels I noticed the maximum steering angle is quite small resulting in a quite large turning circle of the car. Is this a deliberate choice by design or a compromise for another reason ?

Like I already mentioned here I am really impressed with the functionality and design of your MOC . The above item should therefore not be considered a real issue; I am just interested to know the background for this...

[Didumos69]

2 hours ago, brickhank said:

Hi @Paul Boratko: After finishing the chassis and connecting the wheels I noticed the maximum steering angle is quite small resulting in a quite large turning circle of the car. Is this a deliberate choice by design or a compromise for another reason ?

Like I already mentioned here I am really impressed with the functionality and design of your MOC . The above item should therefore not be considered a real issue; I am just interested to know the background for this...

I hope I'm not intruding, but I'm pretty sure that it is to protect the CV-joints closest to the front wheels. The max angle of the CV-joints is quite limited. See this post from Paul and the ones before and after.

[Paul Boratko]

3 hours ago, brickhank said:

Hi @Paul Boratko: After finishing the chassis and connecting the wheels I noticed the maximum steering angle is quite small resulting in a quite large turning circle of the car. Is this a deliberate choice by design or a compromise for another reason ?

Like I already mentioned here I am really impressed with the functionality and design of your MOC . The above item should therefore not be considered a real issue; I am just interested to know the background for this...

Unfortunately because the car has both front drive as well as steering, this is as far as the car can be steered before the cv joints begin to bind up within the hubs..

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Didumos69 said:

I hope I'm not intruding, but I'm pretty sure that it is to protect the CV-joints closest to the front wheels. The max angle of the CV-joints is quite limited. See this post from Paul and the ones before and after.

What he said..

[brickhank]

11 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

I hope I'm not intruding, but I'm pretty sure that it is to protect the CV-joints closest to the front wheels. The max angle of the CV-joints is quite limited. See this post from Paul and the ones before and after.

 

10 hours ago, Paul Boratko said:

Unfortunately because the car has both front drive as well as steering, this is as far as the car can be steered before the cv joints begin to bind up within the hubs..

What he said..

That's what I figured out in the meantime by closely inspecting and experimenting with the construction. Thanks for your explanations.

On 2/8/2017 at 4:30 PM, Meatman said:

I have my Scorpion model right here in front of me on my coffee table. When the car is in first gear(which has he most resistance) I can effortlessly roll the car forwards and backwards(just like Paul does in his video). In fact, I almost rolled it right off the table. Like Eric said the model really is professionally designed all around. The gearbox is smooth and when you shift gears, you really feel like you just shifted a gear.

Now that I have completed my chassis, I can confirm and completely agree !

(looking forward to completing the model this weekend)

Edited February 10, 2017 by Milan
Removed quoted image from previous post.

[brickhank]

Completed the build this Sunday. It confirmed my earlier judgment of this MOC. Very good quality design and robustness overall !

[brickhank]

Hi @Paul Boratko, I hope you don't mind I slightly modified the looks of the front side of your wonderful MOC. I started with the bonnet and finished with the head lights. I used the "spare" parts I have sitting here waiting for the final release of @Jeroen Ottens DB11 MOC (I prepared already by buying my missing parts based on the preliminary parts list as posted earlier by Jeroen). I like the shape much better now, but it's a matter of personal taste of course and it might not do justice to the original car that was the basis for your MOC...

I wonder what you and others think of it.

Here's a few pictures:

I am considering doing some additional modifications to the back side, although I like the original back side of your model much more than the original front.

Edited February 24, 2017 by brickhank
Re-added smaller pictures (1024 x 768) => sorry...