LEGO Collectable Minifigures Series 17 Rumors and Discussion

[Itaria No Shintaku]

2 hours ago, Oederland said:

Maybe I should have stated that I played with Lego in the late 80ies and early 90ies. Back then the distribution of minifigs/parts was a different one (at least in my opinion). Black Monarch's Castle e. g. featured 12 minifigs and three horses, two of those armoured, Black Knight's Castle included 12 minifigs (one of them a ghost) and four horses. The ghost was featured in a small inexpensive set as well, not just a large one. When the green dragon was introduced in 1993 there were three sets of different size right from the beginning to obtain that dragon. The wizard was available in those three sets and another small one. 1995's king with shiny helmet was included in both the largest castle set (with cape, plume, and shiny sword on armoured horse), one featuring a carriage (no cape, but plume and shiny sword) and a small set (neither cape nor plume, but at least shiny sword). So I think it was easier to obtain certain "attractive" items to some extent.

Well, I don't think that children or parents really determine the price-per-piece or price-per-minifig ratio. E. g. the castle is a large structure with many bricks, so people accept it to cost more money. The main motivation behind the large sets is still to sell a certain structure, be it a castle, a police station, a volcano, a crashed plane, or a combination of certain vehicles. This as such might or might not be attractive enough, and by adding some rare attractive items (the king, the armoured knight, the leopard) you can (try to) reach more people. In my childhood these items were still easier to obtain, at least to some extent.

I don't claim it to be a universal law, it wouldn't work anyway as the rareness/attractiveness depends on the theme, and I don't want to claim that e. g. a castle without a king wouldn't sell, but in some instances, where it makes sense, TLC seems to follow that rule. I'm not sure how representative my childhood is, but when I wanted to get a larger set it often took some time and I had to highlight the advantages of the set to convince my parents, and I wasn't successful all the time. To give an example, I had begged for 1822 Sea Claw 7 after seeing it in a brochure of a supermarket, and (somewhat surprisingly), my mother just bought it, I guess because it was sold cheaply considering the size of the set. For some more submarine action I got 6115 Shark Scout at a later point. Then I asked for 6155 Deep Sea Predator or 6190-1 Shark's Crystal Cave (not sure any more which of those two I was looking for), but I ended up with 6135 Spy Shark. My mother was like 1) you get another diver of that fraction 2) you get a plant (for whatever reason I liked those bushes and still do ;) ) 3) you get a submarine with that orange-transparent window 4) you have a magnet on 1822. Well, she was right, wasn't she  . If there had been some "rare" items I might have won. This might also explain why the sets available in some themes has been reduced. Back then there really was some interference or redundance between sets, like the mentioned three submarine sets with that front window, or the three Castle sets with the green dragon.

In contrast, looking at Nexo Kinghts: In the first wave the smallest of the regular sets consisted of a soldier and monsters available also in the larger sets, so none of the main characters. Five intermediate sets with one of the heroes each or the king, no redundancy. Two more intermediate sets with the queen and Aaron in one case and Ava and Lance in another. Finally the large set with Jestro and his mobile (plus Lance) and the largest set with three of the heroes (no Lance, no Macy). Thus, for Jestro you need 70316, for Axl and the Merlok hologram piece you need 70317, for the queen 70325, for the king 70327, for Ava 70324, for Macy 70314, for Moltor 70313 - in other words, many sets to "collect them all". There are also the cheap Ultimate sets, but the heros have different appearance with their transparent parts, which might be a reason to buy them in addition and not as a replacement (and still no Axl).

In the second wave there's a cheaper set to get Macy and two new sets with Axl, but they are both expensive. Jestro remains available in expensive sets only. You get some new Ultimate sets, but the heros again have a different apperance compared to the regular sets. In the third wave TLC introduces new monsters and new items for the heros (the orange-transparent ones). It's only now with the "Battle Suits" sets that the heros become available cheaply in their "default" apperance. So there is definitively a strategy how the minifigs are distributed across sets, ensuring that you have to spend quite some money - which is absolutely legitimate, as TLC is not a non-profit organisation.

Well, I read it all and there is nothing to disprove the highest-cost-per-minifig -> better minifig assioma.

On the other hand the price-per-part seems to stay quite the same. 
70347 10€ per 89 parts (0,089€ per part)
70352 100€ per 840 parts (0,084€ per part)

But 

70347 10€ per 2 minifigures (5€ per minifig)
70352 100€ per 7 minifigures (14,3€ per minifig)

So it is legit to expect better minifigures when the price per part is the same but the price-per-minifigure isn't.

[22kane]

11 hours ago, Oederland said:

TLC knows about AFOLs and how sets and minifigs out of production are sold, and that those prices can be extreme. So well, I think they meant it to go that way, or at least they wanted to give a try as an experiment, knowing that it might end up that way. They can make a lot of money with the CMFs, and they can make even more money if some of the attractive minifigs are rarer, and if one is extremely rare (similar to the figures in Kinder Surprise). Maybe they were surprised that it ended up that extreme.

In any case, CMFs already cost 3,99 € in Germany by now - 4 € for a minifig of poorer-than-normal quality (and the quality is certainly not poorer because it's made in China, it's ridiculous to believe that it is impossible to come up with ABS of the same quality within China). I wouldn't be surprised if prices increase for future series - as long as they sell reasonably well. 

Interesting point. I'd love to see their sales figures on average and how Series 10 sold alone  

On the whole Minifigures cost- I remember when Series 1 & 2 were $1.99 (US Dollar) per pack. They went to 2.99 at Series 3 and eventually $3.99 where we are now. Toys R Us debuted the Lego Batman series at $4.99 and I imagine it's only a matter of time until it's that way across the board with the other retailers. I'll probably stop collecting at that point. 

[zoth33]

9 hours ago, Oederland said:

Maybe I should have stated that I played with Lego in the late 80ies and early 90ies. Back then the distribution of minifigs/parts was a different one (at least in my opinion). Black Monarch's Castle e. g. featured 12 minifigs and three horses, two of those armoured, Black Knight's Castle included 12 minifigs (one of them a ghost) and four horses. The ghost was featured in a small inexpensive set as well, not just a large one. When the green dragon was introduced in 1993 there were three sets of different size right from the beginning to obtain that dragon. The wizard was available in those three sets and another small one. 1995's king with shiny helmet was included in both the largest castle set (with cape, plume, and shiny sword on armoured horse), one featuring a carriage (no cape, but plume and shiny sword) and a small set (neither cape nor plume, but at least shiny sword). So I think it was easier to obtain certain "attractive" items to some extent.

Well, I don't think that children or parents really determine the price-per-piece or price-per-minifig ratio. E. g. the castle is a large structure with many bricks, so people accept it to cost more money. The main motivation behind the large sets is still to sell a certain structure, be it a castle, a police station, a volcano, a crashed plane, or a combination of certain vehicles. This as such might or might not be attractive enough, and by adding some rare attractive items (the king, the armoured knight, the leopard) you can (try to) reach more people. In my childhood these items were still easier to obtain, at least to some extent.

I don't claim it to be a universal law, it wouldn't work anyway as the rareness/attractiveness depends on the theme, and I don't want to claim that e. g. a castle without a king wouldn't sell, but in some instances, where it makes sense, TLC seems to follow that rule. I'm not sure how representative my childhood is, but when I wanted to get a larger set it often took some time and I had to highlight the advantages of the set to convince my parents, and I wasn't successful all the time. To give an example, I had begged for 1822 Sea Claw 7 after seeing it in a brochure of a supermarket, and (somewhat surprisingly), my mother just bought it, I guess because it was sold cheaply considering the size of the set. For some more submarine action I got 6115 Shark Scout at a later point. Then I asked for 6155 Deep Sea Predator or 6190-1 Shark's Crystal Cave (not sure any more which of those two I was looking for), but I ended up with 6135 Spy Shark. My mother was like 1) you get another diver of that fraction 2) you get a plant (for whatever reason I liked those bushes and still do ;) ) 3) you get a submarine with that orange-transparent window 4) you have a magnet on 1822. Well, she was right, wasn't she  . If there had been some "rare" items I might have won. This might also explain why the sets available in some themes has been reduced. Back then there really was some interference or redundance between sets, like the mentioned three submarine sets with that front window, or the three Castle sets with the green dragon.

In contrast, looking at Nexo Kinghts: In the first wave the smallest of the regular sets consisted of a soldier and monsters available also in the larger sets, so none of the main characters. Five intermediate sets with one of the heroes each or the king, no redundancy. Two more intermediate sets with the queen and Aaron in one case and Ava and Lance in another. Finally the large set with Jestro and his mobile (plus Lance) and the largest set with three of the heroes (no Lance, no Macy). Thus, for Jestro you need 70316, for Axl and the Merlok hologram piece you need 70317, for the queen 70325, for the king 70327, for Ava 70324, for Macy 70314, for Moltor 70313 - in other words, many sets to "collect them all". There are also the cheap Ultimate sets, but the heros have different appearance with their transparent parts, which might be a reason to buy them in addition and not as a replacement (and still no Axl).

In the second wave there's a cheaper set to get Macy and two new sets with Axl, but they are both expensive. Jestro remains available in expensive sets only. You get some new Ultimate sets, but the heros again have a different apperance compared to the regular sets. In the third wave TLC introduces new monsters and new items for the heros (the orange-transparent ones). It's only now with the "Battle Suits" sets that the heros become available cheaply in their "default" apperance. So there is definitively a strategy how the minifigs are distributed across sets, ensuring that you have to spend quite some money - which is absolutely legitimate, as TLC is not a non-profit organisation.

I think you have to take into account that back in the 80's and 90's castle minifigs had limited printing and no armor printing where as today everything is very detailed with printing the armor on knights is printed like the cmf good knight and the frightening knight.  Several of the kingdoms knights had printed armor and torsos.  And the heads have more details with the eyes and facial expressions and facial hair.  Some figs even have dual sided heads so figs are more expensive to make.  I personally think the minifigs today are excellent compared to the ones from the 80's and 90's.I But yes I do agree with you that Lego knows what they are doing as far as minifig distribution.  They know people like to collect them and therefore make the exclusive ones in expensive sets so people spend more.  When it comes to kids my kids love playing with their figs and changing them around and mixing up the parts so I don't think lego expects kids to not just collect them.  My kids haven't had issues with quality but I have had an issue with one of the cmf where the face just came off when I touched it.  I do have more issues with arms cracking.  Those have been my only issues so far.  But that's my 2 cents.   

[Oederland]

Let's make sure what I was trying to demonstrate: Collecting is a relevant aspect for children when it comes to toys, and collecting CMFs might be a relevant factor for children. There are various sorts of toys that build upon collecting, combined with blind bags. Children might not be able to get a complete series (due to lack of money), but it can be an impulsion to get more of those sets to try to get as much diversity as possible. In the end, for TLC it doesn't matter whether children collect because they want to complete the series or whether they "collect" as a by-product, trying to get certain minifigs from those blind bags.

And I wanted to highlight that you can make use of the collection aspect as a company in several ways, which is why I was talking about all Castle and Nexo Knights and Aquanauts. The placement of minifigs is not random. If it were only about selling "better" minifigs more expensively, they could go with e. g. a small set and a "standard" minifig for 4 € and a small set with a "better" minifig for 6 €. I don't see why this shouldn't work. For a child and/or for the adult that buys the toys it makes sense to have several soldiers, but it makes less sense to have several kings, so one will accept it to cost more.

However, if you can get the "better" minifigs or interesting parts in cheaper sets (more expensive than a set of a similar size with similar amount of pieces or minifigs, but still very cheap relative to the large sets), there is less motivation to get the large and expensive sets. Less motivation insofar as a large set is already attractive due to the structure included (the main component of e. g. the castle sets is really the castle), but it can be more attractive when adding some rare items. If these items can be obtained elsewhere then they are less rare and the inclusion in a large set is a weaker argument to justify the price.

So well, maybe people accept it if the rarer items are included in the large and expensive sets, but I wouldn't agree with you that they expect it - at least adults. After all, a king with printing on the front and the back remains a minifig with dual-side printing.

15 hours ago, zoth33 said:

I think you have to take into account that back in the 80's and 90's castle minifigs had limited printing and no armor printing where as today everything is very detailed with printing the armor on knights is printed like the cmf good knight and the frightening knight.  Several of the kingdoms knights had printed armor and torsos.  And the heads have more details with the eyes and facial expressions and facial hair.  Some figs even have dual sided heads so figs are more expensive to make.  I personally think the minifigs today are excellent compared to the ones from the 80's and 90's.I But yes I do agree with you that Lego knows what they are doing as far as minifig distribution.  They know people like to collect them and therefore make the exclusive ones in expensive sets so people spend more.  When it comes to kids my kids love playing with their figs and changing them around and mixing up the parts so I don't think lego expects kids to not just collect them.  My kids haven't had issues with quality but I have had an issue with one of the cmf where the face just came off when I touched it.  I do have more issues with arms cracking.  Those have been my only issues so far.  But that's my 2 cents.   

Certainly. But at the same time, I would assume that the equipment, techniques to produce bricks have become more efficient over time (compared to e. g. the 80ies), so one might be able to produce more complicated/detailed parts without having to increase the budget. However, what I was aiming at was 

[rob-ot5000]

So how about that series 17, eh?

[Robert8]

The official reveal will happen at any minute now

(I mean I'm just guessing. Since the official reveal usually takes place around a 4-6 weeks before the release)

Edited March 14, 2017 by Robert8

[x105Black]

Really looking forward to this one.  There are some great minifigures in this series, and some nice pieces.

[22kane]

4 hours ago, rob-ot5000 said:

So how about that series 17, eh?

I heard a drum and cymbal crash when I read this.

[rob-ot5000]

1 hour ago, 22kane said:

I heard a drum and cymbal crash when I read this.

http://instantrimshot.com/   

[Legofan2001]

Still no reveal this is really odd

[Nerd-with-a-Pencil]

1 hour ago, Legofan2001 said:

Still no reveal this is really odd

And your post got me all psyched up for one. GG.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

14 hours ago, Nerd-with-a-Pencil said:

And your post got me all psyched up for one. GG.

And yours got me.

[K_Tiger]

What's odd is that we've gotten a feel guide before we've even seen the last figure.

[gedren_y]

Lots of excitement, but no new news. Not waste this post I will discuss the figs.

If I can, I would like to get at least four of the chefs. I hope I can find the right face to make Suki. That Female Elf's dress might work for Liz's work clothes. The Retarius' face is perfect for Luke. Those of you who know what I mean, enjoy the thought of it, but don't tell.

[22kane]

I think they're going to keep it as a mystery figure and not like the Mr. Gold thing. There will probably be 3 in each case but the "mystery" image will remain on the box and packs. We would have seen an image by now if it was just a standard character. They are probably just trying to change things up a little.

[David Thomsen]

Yeah, it doesn't make sense that it would be a 'mystery figure' only until the release. It'll be a mystery after as well. I wonder if it'll have a separate fold-out minifig checklist, the other fifteen will still have mystery the figure blackened out and only the mystery minifig itself will have a picture and assembly instructions.

To be honest I'm actually kind of excited by it. I haven't bought a set in so long where I haven't pored over the set pieces and instructions in fine detail before I even got my hands on it. I'm tempted to avoid this topic from now on, and just let myself be surprised when I open the actual packet.

[K_Tiger]

Eh, it might appeal to kids, which is fine. It'll cease being a mystery 10 seconds after the first AFOL to get a case pops him open and gets the pics uploaded.

[cebelicamya]

Maybe the mystery figure is a monochrome figure and we will get it in different  colors? I think this would be awesome, i like monochrome collections :)

[Mr bricking it]

I'm honestly surprised that there hasn't been an official reveal yet. Heck, usually around this time before the release boxes start appearing in stores. (I got a complete S14 two months before the official release)

[Robert8]

8 minutes ago, Mr bricking it said:

I'm honestly surprised that there hasn't been an official reveal yet. Heck, usually around this time before the release boxes start appearing in stores. (I got a complete S14 two months before the official release)

Agree. It's about time

The official reveal has to happen this week

Honestly I thought they would push these up because the Batman Movie series sold like hotcakes

[telaruhn]

Honestly not surprised about a reveal. LEGO never seems to handle these well. Look at Series 15 and 16 from last year... S15 was released February 1st, though it was January 1st for those outside of the US. Meanwhile, S16 was in stores in July... So I don't really know what to expect here.

Edited March 27, 2017 by telaruhn

[Killian]

Hope we get the reveal soon! 

[Itaria No Shintaku]

3 hours ago, telaruhn said:

Honestly not surprised about a reveal. LEGO never seems to handle these well. Look at Series 15 and 16 from last year... S15 was released February 1st, though it was January 1st for those outside of the US. Meanwhile, S16 was in stores in July... So I don't really know what to expect here.

I expect that in some countries it will be released one month in advance. It never occurred to Italy. US, Asiatic, one time even IRELAND (dunno why). I don't remember which series, if recall correctly was series 5, that was out in Ireland one month before the others and in fact you found it on bricklink only in irish stores.

[Robert8]

Poland as well

I think it was Series 11

Edited March 28, 2017 by Robert8

[David Thomsen]

At this point I'm honestly baffled that people are still expecting a reveal... I see no reason why they would create all this drama and mystery around this one figure if they plan to reveal it before the release anyway. And yeah, as soon as the first AFOL opens one, every AFOL will know what it is. But for every AFOL who learns what the figure is the minute one is opened, there'll be a hundred kids who get the excitement of seeing it for the first time in their hands. And I think that's awesome.