Is anyone else fearing that Nexo Knights is meaning NO new castle them

[ProvenceTristram]

2 hours ago, BearHeart said:

To me, Nexo Knights, Ninjago and Chima might as well be one big theme because all these themes seem to be just a group of good guys going up against a bunch of baddies with a bunch of crazy, over the top colorful vehicles. At least with Ninjago and Chima there was a few sets here and there that I would cherry pick because they'd fit in with my other castle/pirates stuff.  I don't find this with Nexo Knights at all, I bought a few of the 'ultimate (insert name here)" sets but none of the bigger sets appealed to me at all.

I think you've really hit on something here - that the evildoers in all these lines lack any kind of flexibility for buyer empathy.

When I look back at the Black Knights and Blacktron and Wolf Pack and so on, while these factions were clearly intended to be some kind of antagonists, it wasn't written into their themes that each and every Lego man in their service possessed a heart of stone; a soul as black and bereft of feeling as obsidian. It was up to the kid playing with these themes to determine who was who... and, in fact, in many ways these lines mirrored our own universe of moralistic ambiguity; they dwelt within shades of grey. That isn't to say that there aren't bad men out there - that, say, Blacktron as a whole (like the Empire in Star Wars) wasn't evil - but what drove them to do what they did rested on the imagination of the child playing with them.

By contrast, Ninjago, Chima and Nexo Knights, in addition to being a carnival of bizarre, wacky, off-the-wall concepts with almost no grounding in the real world, are rife with foes who are absolutely iron-cast into role of pure malevolence. And it robs us builders - old and young - of the ability to see them as anything else. The wonderful thing about the old lines wasn't just that they were connected to historical themes that opened the mind to a world many choose to see as boring or drab - it was that you could be a pirate or an bluecoat and, from both perspectives, see yourself as the hero.

[Svendp]

I don't like nexo either, but as stated above already, this is ment for kids. I would love to see an expert level castle series (like we have the modulars). 

[BrickJagger]

On 11/3/2016 at 9:08 PM, ProvenceTristram said:

 

I know there are people buying Nexo Knights - I know that, somewhere out there, there are folks who think this is the best release of all time. But I cannot for the life of me conceive of them as even approaching a majority. The castle/pirates crowd has to be larger, if not individually, then certainly from a cumulative perspective. Are the majority of them really spending their hard-earned cash on tank-castles? I doubt it. 

This is inherently wrong, as there is a reason Nexo is putting out 50+ sets a year while Castle and Pirates are dead on the water. It tested well with the kids and it's doing well right now, which implies that yes, people do want rolling tank-castles, wacky as they are. 

I think the title of this thread drastically overdramatizes what's going on right now.   Nexo is making no effort to be a normal Castle theme, so I hardly see it a wolf in sheep's clothing. Now if that wolf were to be a trans orange robo wolf.....

 

An example of "Betrayal" would be the 2004 KK2 sets. They attempted to appeal to both small children and adults and failed miserably, with horrendous set designs and a bad story that was almost impossible to expand upon in future years. Nexo Knights is fully kid-aimed, and has well-designed sets and a decent plot. It never tried to be something it wasn't, so how could it betray you? 

When normal Castle comes back I hope Lego makes it a grand affair, because I get why a lot of you guys are disappointed with Nexo Knights. I'm a Historic Themes poster first and foremost so I expect to be a regular in this section as soon as NK ends, but until then focus your attention on other themes and pretend Nexo doesn't exist if you don't like it.

[x105Black]

57 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

This is inherently wrong, as there is a reason Nexo is putting out 50+ sets a year while Castle and Pirates are dead on the water. It tested well with the kids and it's doing well right now, which implies that yes, people do want rolling tank-castles, wacky as they are. 

I think the title of this thread drastically overdramatizes what's going on right now.   Nexo is making no effort to be a normal Castle theme, so I hardly see it a wolf in sheep's clothing. Now if that wolf were to be a trans orange robo wolf.....

 

An example of "Betrayal" would be the 2004 KK2 sets. They attempted to appeal to both small children and adults and failed miserably, with horrendous set designs and a bad story that was almost impossible to expand upon in future years. Nexo Knights is fully kid-aimed, and has well-designed sets and a decent plot. It never tried to be something it wasn't, so how could it betray you? 

When normal Castle comes back I hope Lego makes it a grand affair, because I get why a lot of you guys are disappointed with Nexo Knights. I'm a Historic Themes poster first and foremost so I expect to be a regular in this section as soon as NK ends, but until then focus your attention on other themes and pretend Nexo doesn't exist if you don't like it.

Well, the LEGO designers see Nexo Knights as a Castle theme, so in a way, it is a trans neon orange robo-wolf in electric sheep's clothing...

[The Architect]

19 hours ago, BearHeart said:

Wow, excellent post! I completely agree with you about everything.

I am a history buff myself and the LEGO castle and pirate themes of my childhood played a large role in my initial interest in history. I was also in a dark age and it was the Vikings theme that eventually brought me back to LEGO as an adult.

In regards to the Nexo Knights theme, I was originally apprehensive when I heard/saw it at first but I thought it would eventually grow on me. It hasn't. In fact, as time passes and more sets come out I find them less and less interesting... I don't even bother looking at the newly released sets at all anymore.

To me, Nexo Knights, Ninjago and Chima might as well be one big theme because all these themes seem to be just a group of good guys going up against a bunch of baddies with a bunch of crazy, over the top colorful vehicles. At least with Ninjago and Chima there was a few sets here and there that I would cherry pick because they'd fit in with my other castle/pirates stuff.  I don't find this with Nexo Knights at all, I bought a few of the 'ultimate (insert name here)" sets but none of the bigger sets appealed to me at all.

My biggest fear is that Nexo Knight will just go on and on and on like Ninjago seems to be doing (didn't that theme start in 2011 or something?) which will make a classic castle theme most likely impossible. Instead, I'm just hoping to ride it out and maybe in a year or two a different, more historic or fantasy oriented castle theme will return.

I second that! There currently seems to be a really bad trend of making themes go on and on rather than making new themes, I mean there are six or seven variations of each ninjago ninja now, how many more do we need?

[Aanchir]

3 hours ago, The Architect said:

I second that! There currently seems to be a really bad trend of making themes go on and on rather than making new themes, I mean there are six or seven variations of each ninjago ninja now, how many more do we need?

Ninjago is an extraordinary case. It was not originally intended to go on and on — it was planned as just a two or three year theme, like other "Big Bang" themes (Exo-Force, Power Miners, Atlantis, and Chima). But it became incredibly popular in a very short time and then held onto that momentum, leading to it being renewed in 2014 and then made evergreen in 2015. I do not anticipate the same thing happening with LEGO Nexo Knights, and I doubt the LEGO Group expects that either. Most likely, they have a three-year plan for it, just as they did for Legends of Chima. I have seen no press releases or news stories that would indicate the same kind of mind-blowing performance from Nexo Knights as Ninjago experienced in its first two years.

I have a hard time seeing Nexo Knights as any kind of betrayal, not only because I enjoy the theme but also because pretty much ALL of the classic themes have gone on hiatus before. There were no new non-licensed Space sets between 2002 and 2006, and no new non-4+ Pirates sets between 2003 and 2008. So sure, it's been three years since the last iteration of LEGO Castle, and it might be two more years until the next one, but this is something that happens sometimes. And putting a classic theme on hiatus to try something genuinely new and original is a lot more respectable IMO than putting a classic theme on hold just to avoid competing with a licensed theme, as happened with Space.

In the meantime, even if you don't accept Nexo Knights as a true Castle theme, there's been a veritable glut of LEGO castles lately! 21127, 41062, 41063, 41067, 41068, 41078, 41180, 70323, 71040, and 75826, just to name ones from the past two years. And that's not even touching on the many other sets that provide great resources for Castle builders, like the many amazing LEGO dragons from themes like Creator, Elves, and Ninjago, or the many collectible minifigures geared towards medieval fantasy builders.

Now, chances are that not all of these are exactly the kind of sets you want in your collections. Maybe none of them are. But as the cliche goes, "beggars can't be choosers". There are certainly way more resources out there for Castle fans today than there were for Pirates fans during that theme's longest hiatus. As Brickset's CapnRex101 says in his article about Bricks issue 16, "We have seen everything from pink sparkling homes for princesses to haunted vampire retreats, classic fortresses and even futuristic castles mounted on caterpillar tracks. We have been spoilt for choice, with every taste catered for."

As AFOLs, we have to accept that most sets are not designed for us. That applies just as much to somebody who DOES enjoy current themes as somebody who does not — one of my favorite themes right now is LEGO Elves, but I have to accept that my enjoyment of it is just a convenient overlap between what its ACTUAL target market (girls ages 7 to 14) enjoy and what I enjoy, not the sets being consciously designed with buyers like me in mind. So with that said, I don't think we're in any place to cry "betrayal" when LEGO retires kid-oriented themes that appeal to us, or introduces new ones that disappoint us. Either way, those sets were not meant for us in the first place. Better to just appreciate when new sets happen to appeal to us and find a way to make do when they don't.

[xboxtravis7992]

30 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

I have a hard time seeing Nexo Knights as any kind of betrayal, not only because I enjoy the theme but also because pretty much ALL of the classic themes have gone on hiatus before. There were no new non-licensed Space sets between 2002 and 2006, and no new non-4+ Pirates sets between 2003 and 2008. So sure, it's been three years since the last iteration of LEGO Castle, and it might be two more years until the next one, but this is something that happens sometimes. And putting a classic theme on hiatus to try something genuinely new and original is a lot more respectable IMO than putting a classic theme on hold just to avoid competing with a licensed theme, as happened with Space.

And to be honest the Lego Western Theme could be considered on an even worse hiatus than those two examples with no non-licensed western sets since the revised version of Fort Legorado was released in the early 2000's... Yet the few random licensed stuff in the interim (Lego Movie, Toy Story, Lone Ranger) have kept some of it on the market.

I know have come across as rather critical about the Classic Castle vs. Nexo Knights debates in previous comments before; but I still stand by the idea that Nexo Knights is aimed for kids, and AFOL's are overthinking this and taking it way to seriously. Lego produced a more 'classic' castle theme for nearly three years with LoTR. Nexo Knights probably will last just about three years itself. So in theory a more classic historical theme could show up by 2019.

And what if Nexo becomes evergreen? I think we can take Star Wars as an example; while Lego's in house space themes were cancelled when Star Wars arrived, after a few years they were brought back and allowed to run side by side at the same time. In theory maybe Nexo could someday run side by side with a Classic Castle theme.

[Robert8]

They are just trying something different. I appreciate that. 

 

They just can't keep recycling the classic castle theme over and over. 

Look at the 2013 Castle theme compared to Kingdoms..... 

They can't just keep producing Castle themes every 3 years, because at some point not even hardcore Castle fans will buy them. 

[LegoFjotten]

24 minutes ago, xboxtravis7992 said:

And to be honest the Lego Western Theme could be considered on an even worse hiatus than those two examples with no non-licensed western sets since the revised version of Fort Legorado was released in the early 2000's...

LEGO was working on a new wave of Western sets before Disney approached them with the Lone Ranger license. The sets were then adapted to suit the Lone Ranger. As I understand it the lineup didn't change all that much, which is why some of the sets did not really align with the movie.

[Lord Sith Lego]

I'm just waiting for a good castle/fantasy movie to come out popular enough for Lego to buy licenses of. I missed out on the LOTR and Hobbit line when I came out of my dark ages as you guys call it. Now I'm tempted to just build my own castle using the Lego store pick a brick wall. However, it won't have unique molds that usually come in sets.

[Vorkosigan]

1 hour ago, Lord Sith Lego said:

I'm just waiting for a good castle/fantasy movie to come out popular enough for Lego to buy licenses of. I missed out on the LOTR and Hobbit line when I came out of my dark ages as you guys call it. Now I'm tempted to just build my own castle using the Lego store pick a brick wall. However, it won't have unique molds that usually come in sets.

Use Bricklink or build up a collection from bulk lots plus some key discontinued sets. For example Kingdoms Joust is still very reasonable on the aftermarket. Even Medieval Market Village is not too overpriced despite its age. 

To the points about lack of real historic themes, I would very much like to see some ancient Rome or medieval Europe sets that were at least in the ballpark of historical accuracy OR established legends. But I don't think NK is a betrayal and has provided some nice parts and figures so far for fantasy settings. 

[SirBlake]

Short answer: Yes. Years between legit product for me to purchase and talk about is bad for my hobby. That's great that kids like it, but it is in my opinion, absolute garbage. Doomed to pollute the bulk lots that I buy in the future once a kid has moved on to video games, girls and/or cars.

[fred67]

I don't see how anyone can feel "betrayed," since TLG owes us nothing.  I also find it hard to belittle them for doing stuff to make money instead of satisfy my personal LEGO wants.

That said, I feel like what ratjag said is extremely insightful.  I understand using themes to draw in new customers, or to give younger fans of LEGO something to latch on to, but the interesting ideal of LEGO is that they can take castles and rebuild them into other period pieces, or something completely new in the same theme (or not).  Of course, you can disassemble Nexo sets and do the same thing - but you don't get any generic knights, you only get Nexo knights; you get odd colors and shapes for castles... in other words, it's more suitable to build Nexo alternatives than generic alternatives.  A "real" castle theme can represent anything from 1500 to 200 years ago (or wider).

But it's TLG, they want to sell sets, they want to make money, and I do realize that something like Nexo is going to sell more than Castle, despite how many AFOLs what classic castle - there are far more young kids interested in something new.  I suppose I'd rather them continue Nexo and release parts sets that would help people who want classic castle - like releasing wheels and tires for people who want to make vehicles, roofs and windows and doors for people who want to make houses and other buildings, and a lot of gray of various types that might be conducive to building castles.  And like any generic sets, they could be used for anything, even if aimed at being more suitable for castle (or houses, or cars).

 

[ZCerberus]

Based on the title, I was thinking I was going to buzz in here and have to lock this topic since we've only talked about this like 100 times.

However, the discussion has been better than I was expecting so I will leave this alone for now.

I also loved Kingdoms, but I found a way to use the Castle theme a few years ago to get interesting figures and heralds from it as well.  I have shifted some of my interest temporarily as well while I wait for new inspiration, and to that extent I understand where some of you guys are coming from... Nexo Knights has certainly made this forum far less lively.  However, I don't think that means castle or inspiration is dead.  If you want to get into something LEGO and Castle, we have Guilds of Historica right in the next forum that can give you inspiration to last for years.

If LEGO themselves is the only thing that inspires you to build, then sadly you need to find a way to get past it.  This isn't the first evergreen theme to fade (looking at you pirates) and we will likely get drips and draps of castle stuff in some way every year to feed our habits, but I don't think we NEED it when we have Bricklink and Eurobricks and like sites to keep us engaged using the imagination we are all complaining about losing.

I do understand the link and sadness when it comes to thinking about our kids.  If you have "vintage" castle sets yourself or a nice collection of knights, you should be able to get your kids interested though because what you build is likely far more interesting and "imagination sparking" than whatever LEGO made anyway.

[MAB]

Betrayed? Not at all. Great building parts, great minifigure parts.

 

And kids love it too.

Is it vintage castle? No. But then I don't think it is any less "real" than vintage castle.

On 04/11/2016 at 1:08 AM, ProvenceTristram said:

 

I mean... really? Really? Why not just purchase the license to He-Man and be done with it, Lego?

 

That would really tie them down to the licensed material only, no new ideas about storylines and characters, and they would not be able to produce all of the other media that they are doing with Nexo Knights.

[Grover]

I don't know if I'd call it 'betrayal' exactly; I leave that term for a bait and switch or broken promises.  If TLG had promised us a classic castle line and then gave us Nexo, I would feel betrayed.

That being said, I am disappointed in the Nexo line.  I agree with the above posters who enjoy the generic castle figures that can be purposed to good or bad, or some neutral faction of your imagination.  The Nexo figures are difficult to repurpose, and most of the pieces are as well.  There are a few here and there that are OK, but all in all, I see it as a fad marketing scheme that is used to make money.  Yes, TLG wants to make money, but it is still disappointing to me that they may have abandoned the Castle line.  There are so many new directions to go with the Castle line that we have seen on the forums here and Classic Castle that were not taken advantage of.

As for Nexo, there's a few interesting ideas, but when I was a kid, I would have hated this line.  I wasn't even that excited about some of the witches and dragons they added in the 90s.  Maybe I'm a purist, but I like lots of blocks that can be repurposed in numerous ways, not just a single block that makes up a wall.  I was even disappointed by the castle walls that were in the 80s sets when I was a kid.

I really agree that an Expert Creator line for Castle would be awesome.  I think there's a lot to be had there, and I feel that our kids' generation is missing out on the classic Pirate and Castle lines if they are discontinued.

Personally, I have not purchased any Ninjago, Chimia, or Nexo Knights sets and have no plans to.  Although I don't care for the themes, I have purchased the Elves, Friends, and Minecraft sets simply for the pieces.  I find too little rewarding in the Nexo sets to do the same; the few pieces that are good enough to buy I get from Bricklink.  If TLG makes money from the kids, great, but I am disinterested.

[Niku]

I have to admit at first rate I was also disinterested on NK, because as much other classic castle afols, I always desire on a castle theme the look and feel of the old sets.
Fortunately returned just in time for when Kingdoms(one of the best themes in castle IMO) was new and achieved to acquire a good quantity of sets and mini-figs for my needs.
Then came LOTR and it was a blast indeed! new molds, great building techniques on sets and mini-figures to expand the fantasy castle universe.
Of course after that, we had Castle 2013 which I personally enjoyed also, more factions to expand are always welcomed.

I think that if I would have returned recently from my Dark Ages to castle I would not be that happy with the theme as I could not see the classic feel of it, nor even more important issue as how to get our precious bley bricks in decent quantities?
On the other hand I am really having a hard time not starting to buy NK, just for the figures and new molds, as some are really eye candy, specially if you are interested on WarHammer or similar fantasy contexts. :)

[Grover]

I returned from my dark ages at the very end of Kingdoms, only to get the Medieval Market (which is a great set), but was super sad to find that I had missed out on the Vikings and a ton of really cool fantasy related sets.  Oh well.

[DoctorTenma]

Imho nexo knights is the worst thing that could have happened to classic lego castle. 

Of course lego is running a business and they need to make a product that will sell well. apparently classic castle, pirates or western (themes that I would like to see) are not profitable. nowadays its about over the top action, genre-blending and cross media franchises.

I dont think lego is to blame for making the right business decisions, and definitely not because I had missed out on so many historic sets and now cannot build a medieval village because of a severe lack of villagers, etc.

Lego is Imho least reaponsible for this trend. If nk was that bad it wouldnt sell. it seems, however, to appeal to children and apparently to some adults as well.

But lets be honest about, do we really need a new classic castle, pirates or western line?

Sure, I would like that very much.

But am I really interested in the builds or the play functions? probably not....

Isnt it all about the minifigs? I just buy sets because of the minifigs, oven overpaid to get the lone ranger train, definitely not to get a seventh tonto or the lone ranger. do I play with the train? no. maybe I will build a western train in the future, though.

Imho lego should continue the way they are doing their business but also give heed to what adult fans want.

If designing and producing a classic line is too expensive or less profitable and even kely not to appeal to adult (castle 2013 is a majot example) at all. lego should produce historic minifig series. i know some amazing figs have been included in the cmf line but thats getting like two or three figures per theme each year is far from satisfying. I would really appreciate that. an advent calendar with historic figs spanning all kinds of themes would be awesome as well. one can only wish...

Just btw what are the odds? are we getting anything historic next year at all besides cmf 17 which should definitely have one or two figs at least...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by DoctorTenma

[broomhandle]

I have to agree with the 1st comment, It is for Kids. And Castle Legos do not sell like Disney star wars etc.. Lego also did Chima, and Ninjago... I have kids and all the friends only like ninjago. most kids did not like Chima, and look how well that turned out...

[Aanchir]

On 11/4/2016 at 3:49 PM, ProvenceTristram said:

I think you've really hit on something here - that the evildoers in all these lines lack any kind of flexibility for buyer empathy.

When I look back at the Black Knights and Blacktron and Wolf Pack and so on, while these factions were clearly intended to be some kind of antagonists, it wasn't written into their themes that each and every Lego man in their service possessed a heart of stone; a soul as black and bereft of feeling as obsidian. It was up to the kid playing with these themes to determine who was who... and, in fact, in many ways these lines mirrored our own universe of moralistic ambiguity; they dwelt within shades of grey. That isn't to say that there aren't bad men out there - that, say, Blacktron as a whole (like the Empire in Star Wars) wasn't evil - but what drove them to do what they did rested on the imagination of the child playing with them.

By contrast, Ninjago, Chima and Nexo Knights, in addition to being a carnival of bizarre, wacky, off-the-wall concepts with almost no grounding in the real world, are rife with foes who are absolutely iron-cast into role of pure malevolence. And it robs us builders - old and young - of the ability to see them as anything else. The wonderful thing about the old lines wasn't just that they were connected to historical themes that opened the mind to a world many choose to see as boring or drab - it was that you could be a pirate or an bluecoat and, from both perspectives, see yourself as the hero.

Sorry for dredging up a month-old post, but I didn't spot this post until the topics got merged, and I've gotta disagree. Perhaps for people who don't follow the Nexo Knights story, it might feel like the baddies are generically evil, but when you follow the story it's not nearly so clear-cut. In Nexo Knights specifically, the only character who I'd call purely evil (in his own goofy way) is Monstrox/The Book of Monsters. Otherwise, a lot of the villains are sympathetic or even downright likeable. Jestro, first and foremost, is a somewhat reluctant villain. The Book of Monsters preys on his insecurities about not really being good at anything by convincing him he can be good at being bad. But even though he cooperates with the Book's schemes, he's ultimately a big softie who fills his evil lair with creature comforts like a bathtub and a comfy bed, and mostly just wants to feel like he belongs somewhere.

Even without following the story, it's pretty clear from their designs that the Scurriers and Globlins (like the rock monsters from Power Miners, or the Minions from Despicable Me) are more mischievous than outright evil. And among the higher-ranking monsters, although their loyalties are to the Book of Monsters, they're fairly charming in their own right. A special shout-out goes to the monsters' military commander, General Magmar, whose whole section of the real-life Book of Monsters (which is a PHENOMENALLY funny and enjoyable read) is about how he's well-spoken, a good cook, and loves doing whatever he can to boost his troops' morale. Beast Master absolutely dotes on his two trained Globlins, who he has named "Muffin" and "Poopsie". The trod-upon Bookkeeper loves feeling important in his role of carrying around the Book of Monsters. The giant Sparkks and Burnzie are not too bright, but when they're not out looting and pillaging, they're fun-loving monsters who enjoy dancing, ping-pong, etc.

You get the idea. Honestly, I feel like the LEGO Group does a great job in most their story themes — Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Chima, etc. — making the villain characters more than just generic baddies with nothing likeable or relatable to their personalities and motivations. And while it may be obvious who's the "good guys" and who's the "bad guys" (which changes sometimes — like how just about all of Chima's year one "bad guys" became "good guys" from year two onward), it's not a situation where no kid would ever want to play as the "bad guys" or see things from their perspective.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Aanchir

[Artanis I]

Gaaaaahhhh topics merged, no wonder I got sent a few months-of-posts back

Castle Fortrex has been reported at 50% off in Australia before Christmas. That is a bad sign for that set, considering it only came out this year. If it was after Christmas or if it came out last year wouldn't be a big deal at all (or if it was a normal discount of 20%), but what I get from that discount is that it is not selling.

*dances a jig*

[Viriatus]

I saw yesterday, (probably in BL), a image with the evolution of the castle line, with the nexo knights as the last evolution of that line. (I'm trying to found that image)

[Viriatus]

I think it wasn't this particular image, but a similar one:

( By the way, it's the new 2016 "Castle set": 5004419-1 - Classic Knights Minifigure )

5004419: Classic Knights Minifigure

Image too big

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Jim
Image too big

[Mr. President]

On 12/2/2016 at 9:04 AM, Aanchir said:

Sorry for dredging up a month-old post, but I didn't spot this post until the topics got merged, and I've gotta disagree.

What is this? Rational arguments in a Nexo Knights thread? You know that's not allowed!

I agree with you, and I appreciate your being the voice of reason. It's good to see that there are still a few AFOLs with an open mind.