42056 - Porsche 911 GT3 RS - MODs and Improvements

[MichaelvandenBerg]

Hey Guys i am new to this forum and just finished building box 1 when i saw these mods. I really going to implement this mods but my first question was, because the Porsche is nog electrical powered what is the use of the gearbox at all? I saw some vids people atached a motor at the back to demonstrate the gearbox but the motor is not build in so the car is playable.

[Imanol BB]

13 minutes ago, MichaelvandenBerg said:

Hey Guys i am new to this forum and just finished building box 1 when i saw these mods. I really going to implement this mods but my first question was, because the Porsche is nog electrical powered what is the use of the gearbox at all? I saw some vids people atached a motor at the back to demonstrate the gearbox but the motor is not build in so the car is playable.

Hi @MichaelvandenBerg, welcome to Eurobricks, the set is supposed to be moved by hand or only to be a display set like a scale model on any vehicle, the gearbox in the set only is there to spin the engine and somehow to show how works a sequential gearbox in a car, so the gearbox is just like a display function too, however, you could add 1, 2 or possible 3 Power Function motors of different sizes to drive the rear axle and add some IR RC receivers, a servomotor in the front axle and a battery box to convert this set into RC, and if the drive motors are connected where the engine was before (in the same input shaft of the engine), the gearbox will work with these motors, and it would be a fully functional part of the drivetrain.

[Blakbird]

4 hours ago, MichaelvandenBerg said:

Hey Guys i am new to this forum and just finished building box 1 when i saw these mods. I really going to implement this mods but my first question was, because the Porsche is nog electrical powered what is the use of the gearbox at all?

LEGO supercars have had gearboxes all the way from the beginning in 1977.  However, there is usually good access to the engine so you can see the pistons change speed compared to the wheels.  In this car, since the engine is completely hidden and you can't see the pistons even with the hood open, you are right that it seems the gearbox does not have as much purpose.  Only you, the builder, will really know what it does.  If you implement the mod to make the body removable, then it is much easier to see the gearbox and what it does with just the chassis.

[MichaelvandenBerg]

I found the mod indeed to power function the Porsche but with the attached partslist i came around 700 euro's for this mod, cant be right i think. Do you guys have a good partslist with instructions for this mod?

Edit

Allready found out what i did wrong. Had to add the Porsche to the list to see which parts i can re-use. The power function items are quite expensive. The mod still costs around 300 euro's (26 euro's without the power function motors and servos)

Edited March 6, 2017 by MichaelvandenBerg

[Jon61]

On 3/6/2017 at 6:18 PM, MichaelvandenBerg said:

I found the mod indeed to power function the Porsche but with the attached partslist i came around 700 euro's for this mod, cant be right i think. Do you guys have a good partslist with instructions for this mod?

Edit

Allready found out what i did wrong. Had to add the Porsche to the list to see which parts i can re-use. The power function items are quite expensive. The mod still costs around 300 euro's (26 euro's without the power function motors and servos)

Hi Michael I am also new to this forum, but I thought I would comment on your post. I haven't tried the mod you refer to, but I did play around with a set of motors (from the 42030 set) to try to motorize the Porsche after I'd built it. You might want to bear in mind before you spend a lot of money that it's not straightforward to motorize this set while retaining the other interesting features of the standard model i.e. the gearbox and the 'fake' engine. The model is heavy and with a lot of friction in both the 4-speed gearbox and the F-N-R gears even when they're working well. So if you connect a motor (even XL) before the gearbox (so that you can see the effect of the gears on the speed of the wheels), it can be difficult for the motor to overcome the weight and friction, and actually drive the car along the ground. It's also hard to do this while retaining the fake engine in the model. Similarly, the weight is quite a lot for e.g. a servo motor to overcome to operate the steering, especially while stationary (not helped by the wide tyres). And another point - the white clutch gear in the standard model is placed to protect the gears when pushing the model along the ground - if you motorise the model instead (so the workings are being driven from a different end of the transmission, you might want to consider whether you need a clutch in a different place to provide a similar protection.

There are compromises, like connecting a motor (or more than one) somewhere else in the drivetrain (but therefore losing the effect of gears on roadspeed), or simplifying/removing the gearbox etc. Alternatively, you can make a motorised 'display' model - i.e. with the wheels raised off the ground so the motors don't have to overcome the weight while driving the wheels and the steering. (That was the best result I could easily achieve with the motors and parts at my disposal.) But it's worth considering what you want to achieve, and whether you are going to get it for the money you spend.

PS The mod to be able to easily remove the bodywork is definitely worth doing in any event, and only needs very few extra parts. Even without adding any motors it instantly makes the model much more interesting.

[MichaelvandenBerg]

Thnx for your reply and your advise. I have seen the one and two motor mods with removal of the fake engine. I also found this one. It uses 4 motors with keeping the fake engine, what do you think of this one?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0jm4Zq86q-nWm1nOERCbXhEOTQ/view

Does somebody have a link to the easy body removal mod? Cant Fins a separate instruction for that.

Edited March 8, 2017 by MichaelvandenBerg

[Jon61]

I hadn't seen the Modoro mod before - I've just had a quick look at it. Wow - 4 motors just for the drive, plus another for gearshift and a servo for steering! Add in two rechargeable battery packs (although I think he does say that one is optional) and the SBricks and I can see that it's not a cheap mod! It's good of the author to make the instructions available free though  as he's clearly put a lot of work into it.

The mod looks interesting in that from a quick look, it seems he's rearranged the drivetrain so that even though the L motors are in front of the gearbox, they still drive the wheels through the gearbox. But I'm not clear if the F-N-R function has gone - the gearstick is still there but I can't see that it does anything? And although it was a bit 'clunky' in the official model, the paddle-shift gearchange was for me one of the interesting features that I think has also gone in this mod (to allow remote control of the gears). As I said above, I think compromises like this are necessary - you lose other things in order to gain the motorisation.

I wonder if Modoro got the servo steering to work any better than I did - he may have different gearing to my attempt, but unless I've missed something, if you gear it down to make it more powerful, you'd lose some of the steering lock (given that the servo motor only ever moves +/- 90 degrees).

Another thing I found surprising when I tried putting motors in the Porsche was that, even though it's such a large model, there's still not a lot of room to tuck everything away neatly once you start adding motors (especially 6!), remote receiver and battery(/ies). I removed the fake engine to hide the PF battery pack I was using, but I still ended up with the PF IR remotes very awkwardly placed behind the seats - it looks as if this mod also ends up with the battery packs clearly on display (and the SBricks in the footwell?). That's why in the end I reluctantly decided that - for me - it was better to leave the model closer to the original with its interesting features, rather than with the motors etc. But I know that's not everyone's aim which is why I phrased my post above the way I did.

I found the body removal mod in a Youtube video - the first of 2 from Hispabrick magazine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSuGya3HByU&t=843s  The second one which talks about the error in the gear sequence is also worth a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu6f6lBkMXY . They are also mentioned in the 4th post on page 1 of this thread from June last year.   

Have fun!

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, Jon61 said:

That's why in the end I reluctantly decided that - for me - it was better to leave the model closer to the original with its interesting features, rather than with the motors etc.

I found the body removal mod in a Youtube video - the first of 2 from Hispabrick magazine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSuGya3HByU&t=843s  The second one which talks about the error in the gear sequence is also worth a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu6f6lBkMXY . They are also mentioned in the 4th post on page 1 of this thread from June last year.  

More interesting things can be found for the close-to-the-original non-motorized model. The gear sequence fix is a nice one, but it has also been reported that this fix increases the already present friction in the gearbox. To fix all severe flaws it could be worthwhile to look into the unofficial errata. If you want to go even further, you could also take a look at my ultimately playable version of the Porsche.

[grego18f]

Hi,

This is just my contribution in this topic after a long time...

Here is a McPherson suspension matching the Porsche rims which is an updated design of Sheepo's McPherson strut suspension.

Please note that the wheels will need more room to move.

And here is an overall view of the parts needed.

Don't hesitate to give me any feedback

Greg

[Didumos69]

Great suspension but I doubt whether this will work with the body attached. The steering axis of the wheels will move away from the center of the wheel which requires much more space for the wheels to turn. You will probably have to enlarge the wheels wells.

[im12btw]

Hi folks!

I have been implementing some of the amazing improvements in this forum, and today I would like to showcase some of my own mods!

chair by, on Flickr

airinlet by, on Flickr

differential by, on Flickr

engine by, on Flickr

engine2 by , on Flickr

hud by , on Flickr

The front clearance is increase by 1

frontsuspension by , on Flickr

The L gear limiter is underneath

gearbox by, on Flickr

handbrake1 by, on Flickr

handbrake2 by, on Flickr

gearindicator1 by, on Flickr

gearindicator1a by, on Flickr

gearindicator2 by, on Flickr

all by, on Flickr

Hope you enjoyed !

Edited March 27, 2017 by im12btw
being a noob at posting stuff

[jb70]

Thanx for all your good ideas in this forum!

I published my MODs to pimp up my Porsche including 314 pages building instructions on Rebrickable.com.

Have fun to pimp up your Porsche, if you like!

[Kumbbl]

@jb70:

very good Package you have compiled - something i have waited for a long time:

the full errata of Didumous enhanced with his mod of Additional shock absorber and improved ground clearance for front axle (Imho the retail Front axle is one of the most annoying pitfalls of the retail Porsche) and the Hispabrick mod for an easily removable Body..

Now even with HoG, great- this is the Porsche TLG should have released....

thanks a lot for the all inclusive PDF BI!!!

Edited May 7, 2017 by Kumbbl

[Didumos69]

@jb70, I finally took the time to take a look at your work. What you did is fantastic! You made an excellent selection of mods and combined them into a version that is not harder to build than the stock version. I agree with @Kumbbl: This is the 42056 which TLG should have released. The only thing I would have included myself is my alternative paddle shifter unit with the silicon bands on top and not inside, so it can be build more easily. But that doesn't take anything away from the excellence of your work. It would deserve it's own topic imo.

[DayWalker]

Hi Guy,

I have updated the mechanical system to avoid having 4 rear gears. It is the same principle, but simplier.

Here are few pictures of the system, completely hiden at the end behind the black pannels. Note that the 2 black elements 4173668 should be replace by a single black Technic Cross Block/Fork 2X2. Last, the front and rear speeds are reverse, in the same position as the real GT3RS (but on the sticker of the gear box, we should exchange the position of the D and R letters)

[Appie]

Well recently I started building this set. I got to page 110 before I couldn't take the sheer amount of obvious Technic flaws in this model anymore. Luckily there was the work of @Didumos69 and others that fixed pretty much all of these glaring issues within weeks after release. So I started to apply some mods. Then I remembered this model still didn't have a proper 1 speed reverse solution. I never really liked Max Supercars' mod, because it only stopped the problem, it didn't remove it, plus it wouldn't work with the HoG shift mod.

Then I remembered @Jeroen Ottens DB11 mechanism of 1 reverse gear which was stupid easy to apply to the Porsche as well and should work with most/all (?) previous mods for this set.

In order to preserve ground clearance I had to use 3x 8T gears here (these are only hooked up to the front 16T gear obviously), which meant I had to invert the output of the driveshaft from the gearbox (the 3x 12T bevel gears between the gearbox and the D-N-R switch visible in the next pic) so the engine still turns the same direction while going reverse. I didn't apply Didomus' "eliminate friction in the gearbox" mod, but this whole thing runs very smooth on my chassis.

The reverse axle then meets the centre of the gearbox at the bottom. This has the same gear ratio as first gear. Easy simple mod, courtesy of Jeroen Ottens, I couldn't have thought of it even if I tried

Another mod inspired by Jeroen Ottens' work on the DB11: an attempt at counter steering (gear 1+2) and crab steering (gear 3+4).

Instead of using an additional driving ring to give 4 more speeds like the DB11, I decided to try and add a switch for this function, combined with Didumos' work on the PDK shifter for the gear indicator mod I had a nice amount of space in front of the D-N-R switch to give this mod a whirl.

Due to the given play in Lego driving ring gears, there's a huge amount of slack in the rear axle, so much that the function won't work when the model is on the ground. I doubt it will even when I add some form of return-to-centre on the rear axle. All I know at the moment is that the hockey spring is too strong, but I didn't want to use that option anyway, because I wanted to use current parts up to 2016, basically the stuff that was available at the release of this set. What I also wanted to do was make this mod compatible with box 2, which I managed at the front with the switch mechanism, but failed at the rear with the steering rack, there was no other way with 2 springs blocking my path. Also about the rear with the gears and rack, that part is heavily in the "mock up" phase, so that won't stay like it is, don't worry

In first gear:

4th gear:

The rear steering angle is different from the front.

Originally I wanted to completely rebuild the chassis and add more features (like a 8-speed gearbox), but those first 110 pages of this set wore me down, especially after building awesome stuff like Jeroen's DB11. So I had to adjust his mechanism for a switch between 2>3 instead of 4>5. This works pretty well, except on a rare occassion 3rd gear will pop out of the driving ring. Any adjustment I try to make this though, has a negative effect on the other gears.

But ya, the main issue with this mod is the lack of return-to-centre on the rear axle, caused by play in the driving ring gears. If anybody has any suggestion on how to improve on this or better yet a complete different system in mind, I am all ears. I tried quite a few things to make it fit within the set, but I keep coming back to this, because it seems to me to have the least amount of issues, but I am suffering from tunnelvision on this system at the moment, so I am letting it rest a bit.

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Appie

[Jeroen Ottens]

Interesting to see two mechanisms to solve the reverse gear on the same day

As for the crab vs countersteering: I am working on something similar for my next commission. I use the mechanism of the Xerion, but instead of a manual switch I use the rotation of the gearselector to drive a gear rack which then drives the position of the linkage. So far it is proving to be quite a challenge though, as I am already at version 7 in LDD and I haven't even started on the bodywork (to compare, I only needed eight digital versions to complete the DB11)

Maybe Madoca's Avtoros can also give you some ideas. IIRC that has a nifty solution for the different steering modes as well.

[Kumbbl]

5 hours ago, DayWalker said:

Hi Guy,

I have updated the mechanical system to avoid having 4 rear gears. It is the same principle, but simplier.

Here are few pictures of the system, completely hiden at the end behind the black pannels. Note that the 2 black elements 4173668 should be replace by a single black Technic Cross Block/Fork 2X2. Last, the front and rear speeds are reverse, in the same position as the real GT3RS (but on the sticker of the gear box, we should exchange the position of the D and R letters)

 

@DayWalker: May i ask you for some bigger pictures - maybe on bricksafe or somewhere else - because your solution looks really interesting too...

Edited May 21, 2017 by Kumbbl

[DayWalker]

16 minutes ago, Kumbbl said:

@DayWalker: May i ask you for some bigger pictures - maybe on bricksafe or somewhere else - because your solution looks really interesting too...

Here are the photos

First picture

Second picture

Third picture

This solution is compatible with the gear indicator in the center of the car and removable body (see older posts)

EDIT : ... and it allows rear speed and neutral only when the previous one was the 1st gear

Edited May 21, 2017 by DayWalker

[Appie]

13 minutes ago, Jeroen Ottens said:

Interesting to see two mechanisms to solve the reverse gear on the same day

As for the crab vs countersteering: I am working on something similar for my next commission. I use the mechanism of the Xerion, but instead of a manual switch I use the rotation of the gearselector to drive a gear rack which then drives the position of the linkage. So far it is proving to be quite a challenge though, as I am already at version 7 in LDD and I haven't even started on the bodywork (to compare, I only needed eight digital versions to complete the DB11)

Maybe Madoca's Avtoros can also give you some ideas. IIRC that has a nifty solution for the different steering modes as well.

Oh yeah his Avtoros. Funny enough I wanted to use that system for a different model I had in mind, but maybe it could work here too.

Sounds like an interesting system for your commission. Don't know if I could make that work on the Porsche, such a system would probably require a whole new chassis, for which I can't be arsed (i'd rather use that chassis on something that isn't a Porsche).

And yeah, DayWalker made me think that I should post this method

[DayWalker]

1 hour ago, Appie said:

Well recently I started building this set...

Really impressive. I am also working on rear stearing and at the moment, I have no solution compatible with the removable body, and Ackerman geometry (ie, tooth rack in the opposite side of yours, in the gearbox side)

Edited May 21, 2017 by Milan
Please don't quote whole block of images and text.

[Jeroen Ottens]

1 minute ago, DayWalker said:

Really impressive. I am also working on rear stearing and at the moment, I have no solution compatible with the removable body, and Ackerman geometry (ie, tooth rack in the opposite side of yours, in the gearbox side)

Why do you think the gearrack should be in front of the wheels (open question, I don't know the answer myself)?
If the steering is in countersteer I can see that they should, but they are in crabsteeringmode I guess they should be on the opposite side, right? So is it best to get no Ackermann on the rearwheels at all instead?

[Appie]

That was what I was thinking and why I chose to not add ackermann to the rear. His is right for countersteering, mine more right for crab. At least that is what I think. Perhaps I can combine both gearracks (since the Avtoros uses 2 as well) to get the best of both solutions. I am already sacrificing some parts of box 2 behind the rear axle, why not in front as well

Edited May 21, 2017 by Appie

[DayWalker]

7 minutes ago, Jeroen Ottens said:

Why do you think the gearrack should be in front of the wheels (open question, I don't know the answer myself)?
If the steering is in countersteer I can see that they should, but they are in crabsteeringmode I guess they should be on the opposite side, right? So is it best to get no Ackermann on the rearwheels at all instead?

Well, in order to reduce the stearing radius, the outer wheels must have a higher radius, and not the contrary. This lead to the geometry depicted in the following picture., and for front wheels, it leads to position the tooth rack in direction of the rear wheels.

With 4 stering weels, the centre of turning circle should be between the front and rear wheels, and so, the tooth rack for the front rears should be in direction of the gearbox (and not the engine for the porsche)

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by DayWalker

[Milan]

@DayWalker

Please don't quote whole post with big block of images and text (like on previous page).