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I hope Lego is taking notes Jeroen. Seriously, that's a beautiful engineered gearbox.

thx. All I have to do now is to design the rest of the car around it :wink:

I am really torn on the Porsche at the moment. On the one hand I really want to have those rims, tires, orange elements, etc. as soon as possible so I can start building the bodywork for the DB11 in real life. But it is such a badly engineered set that don't want to encourage TLC to make more of these mediocre sets by buying it...

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That gearbox is just beautiful, it's simple when you think of it have two gearboxes like this but I would've never been able to come up with that switching mechanism, it is absolutely ingenious. How long did it take you come up with that, if I don't mind asking?

My only issue with this is that the rear axle is mounted so high up that it won't work with 1:10 scale wheels. But the same principle can be applied to a mid chassis mounted gearbox as well I suppose..

thx. All I have to do now is to design the rest of the car around it :wink:

I am really torn on the Porsche at the moment. On the one hand I really want to have those rims, tires, orange elements, etc. as soon as possible so I can start building the bodywork for the DB11 in real life. But it is such a badly engineered set that don't want to encourage TLC to make more of these mediocre sets by buying it...

I'm in the same boat. I want to buy it for the parts but the set is simply not worth it.

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Having a hard day at work, so trying to wrap my head around how the gear box works. Looks great, complex yet simple in execution. Would really like an animation or video to show it in operation.

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That gearbox is just beautiful, it's simple when you think of it have two gearboxes like this but I would've never been able to come up with that switching mechanism, it is absolutely ingenious. How long did it take you come up with that, if I don't mind asking?

My only issue with this is that the rear axle is mounted so high up that it won't work with 1:10 scale wheels. But the same principle can be applied to a mid chassis mounted gearbox as well I suppose..

I'm in the same boat. I want to buy it for the parts but the set is simply not worth it.

Thank you. My first gearbox for the DB11 I created mid March, but that was a 5D+N+R speed gearbox. The first 8 speed with this configuration I designed mid april. But that version was much higher because the levers were on top. The yellow lever is the real enabler for this gearbox, that one just popped into my head one morning when I woke up. Once I had that, the rest was just making the geometry as compact as possible, while still bracing all the gears properly.

The position of the diff is of course easily moved. A mid mounted version is very well possible, but will take room too. I think it will still be too big for a 1:10 car. The size is approximately LxWxH 15x15x5 studs without the diff on top, so that is a sizeable chunk.

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The gearbox is quite compact, so if anybody feels the urge to replace the Porsche gearbox with a more authentic one (albeit with one gear too many) feel free to adept this design to do so. I hope my explanation made any sense, but if not, please do not hesitate to ask.

I think I see what's going on, so the explanation made sense. I think I just might borrow your gearbox and try to adapt it to the Porsche.

At any rate, I am amazed by what you've been able to do :thumbup:

Are you going to do a gapless body? It might be cooler in a way if you left gaps to see the mechanisms through.

I'm in the same boat. I want to buy it for the parts but the set is simply not worth it.

The way I see it, the Porsche will be a very popular set, because regardless of whether it works or not, it looks good, and it's a replica of a famous car. So it could be more expensive once it's discontinued, much like the 599 Fiorano.

I think that in Jeroen's case, he could justify buying the Porsche in order to use its parts for the AM DB11. The preliminary picture of the body looks great, and orange isn't a color we get much, but whatever you do, I'll be watching this build.

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....

After the truly disappointing gearbox design of the Porsche I thought I could maybe cheer you up (or rub more salt in the 42056's wounds) by showing you how my 8 speed (+ neutral and only 1 (!) reverse), flappy paddle operated gearbox works. I have tested it now thoroughly in all gears and no geargrinding, no stalling, just smoothly turning wheels, gears & pistons... :devil: .

......

The gearbox is quite compact, so if anybody feels the urge to replace the Porsche gearbox with a more authentic one (albeit with one gear too many) feel free to adept this design to do so. I hope my explanation made any sense, but if not, please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks for sharing and big applause! Very clever and logical design :thumbup: . Your diagramms and explanations show clearly that it´s not as complicated. Using 1 (?) gear more than 42056 and resulting in 8+N+R is just the pinnacle of what can be achieved or nowadays we should say "THE ULTIMATE" :wink: !

I really love your spirit of innovation and creativity to come up with new unconventional but elegant and still reliable mechanism which I´m totally missing in the Porsche. I´m wondering what someone with half of your skills could develop if having all possible resources such as new better parts, an army of supportive coworkers, 3 years of time and being paid a nice salary...

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Jeroen,

thanx for sharing your ideas. I plan to buy Porsche but I see that I also build totally different car. It must contain similar gearbox like you have designed + more complex wheel suspensions. Modern 1:8 Lego supercar deserves it. Keep us up to date... :)

Max

Edited by MaxSupercars

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Thanks all for the positive comments. When looking back through my files to answer sm1995's question I also found my first sketch of this gearbox. This is only the core, it doesn't have the switching mechanism, nor the D+N+R switch, but may make it even easier to understand how it works:

27321696682_e86de248de_b.jpg

Only 20 gears for 8 speeds... that should keep the friction away :laugh:

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Impressive as usual, Jeroen. As Bruno stated, what are you making is indeed "Ultimate"

Talking about features, as we already know, the Porsche wheels doesn't have the axle hole, so What do you have planned for the wheels and front axle. Have been discarded the disc breaks due Lego hubs?

Edited by Jonfensu

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Impressive as usual, Jeroen. As Bruno stated, what are you making is indeed "Ultimate"

Talking about features, as we already know, the Porsche wheels doesn't have the axle hole, so What do you have planned for the wheels and front axle. Have been discarded the disc breaks due Lego hubs?

I am afraid I have to ditch that feature :cry_sad: , I have tried to make a break work with the existing hubs, but I have not found a satisfying solution yet. Furthermore the space near the rearwheels is fairly limited now, so that will make it even more challenging. So for now I asssume I will not succeed in adding diskbrakes (nor multilink suspension in the rear). But I haven't completely given up yet. If I get the new hub & rims I will give it probably a final try IRL

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@Jeroen

About the disc brakes that you intended, but might have to drop because of the Porsche rims missing axle holes.

You could consider using the 8448-rims and tires. These rims come with axle hole and as far as I know they also have a deeper offset, just like the new Porsche rims.

I've been thinking about this before, but wasn't sure it would be an options at all. But now, just a minute ago I saw someone posting an image of the Porsche with the 8448-rims on it and they seem to fit very well. The looks might not be ultimate but I thought I could at least let you know. But maybe you were already aware of this.

Anyway, good luck with the DB11!

Edited by Didumos69

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I've been watching the RM8's Porsche review. He compared the wheels of Porsche, 42039, 8448 and Silver Champion. According to his test the Porsche has a 4 stud offset, 42039 2 studs, 8448 2 studs and SC 3 studs.

The 8448 wheels appears to have greater offset, but they are only narrower that the others.

Edited by Jonfensu

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I've been watching the RM8's Porsche review. He compared the wheels of Porsche, 42039, 8448 and Silver Champion. According to his test the Porsche has a 4 stud offset, 42039 2 studs, 8448 2 studs and SC 3 studs.

The 8448 wheels appears to have greater offset, but it's only narrower that the others.

Okay, thanks. I just watched the video. They are indeed a lot narrower and have only 2 studs offset. I do have the impression that the pin holes come close to the outer surface of the rim, just like with the Porsche rims. However, being this narrow, I don't think the 8448 rims are a real option for any of today's supercars.

@Jeroen, don't bother :wink:

Edited by Didumos69

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Another update. I have made the first chassis that contains the steering (with ackerman & caster), the suspension setup, the gearbox, the flappy paddle system and is reasonably stiff (I hope).

The rear wheels are higher than the front wheels by half a stud, so that will either need a correction, or that is solved by the weight distribution.

I have tried to make the central column (the long white structure in the middle) an integral part of the stiffness of the frame by connecting it at both ends to rest of the frame. Next step will be to build this IRL and test whether or not it actually all works out like I have it in my head.

@ Didumos: I actually used the 8448 rims to test my first diskbrake models, assuming the inside diameter of these rims would be comparable. But I totally dislike the rims, so no go on those for me

So here is the chassis (piececount is ~800 now):

27457445351_0f557dbbcb_b.jpg

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Another update. I have made the first chassis that contains the steering (with ackerman & caster), the suspension setup, the gearbox, the flappy paddle system and is reasonably stiff (I hope).

The rear wheels are higher than the front wheels by half a stud, so that will either need a correction, or that is solved by the weight distribution.

I have tried to make the central column (the long white structure in the middle) an integral part of the stiffness of the frame by connecting it at both ends to rest of the frame. Next step will be to build this IRL and test whether or not it actually all works out like I have it in my head.

@ Didumos: I actually used the 8448 rims to test my first diskbrake models, assuming the inside diameter of these rims would be comparable. But I totally dislike the rims, so no go on those for me

So here is the chassis (piececount is ~800 now):

Looking good! One question about the front suspension: Are you sure the vertical liftarms between the upper and lower wishbone still fit with the wheel hubs leaning backwards (caster)? The ball joints of the wheel hub won't make a height difference of 4 studs (heart to heart). Or did you insert ball joints with axle instead of ball joints with pin to gain a little height (with axle stick a little further out of the pin hole)? I'm curious how you did that.

Edited by Didumos69

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Looking sweet already. I look forward to the chassis with actual bricks. Keep up the good work!

I really like the huge amount of space you have below your steering wheel with paddles. In your face Porsche :tongue:

Edited by Appie

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Okay I'm taking a few moments to decipher this puzzle.. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me but it totally looks like the steering column is hanging midair?! :laugh:

I have a few questions about the paddle shift mechanism too. As far as I can tell, the orange bionicle tooth moves a yellow knobwheel and is connected to the 3L thin liftarms usign one of these

10197.jpg

but wouldn't that create backlash in the other shift while engaging one of them?

also it's simple yet brilliant how you ensured that the knob wheels turn in 90 degree increments all the time, this MOC is just full of innovation :thumbup:

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Hmm, I wonder how it will perform. Based on the Porsche and my experience, the mechanism that's restricts the rotation to 90°increments should be closer to the changeover catches. In my system, there was the same amount of knob gear pairs but no long axle with CV joints, and it still had switching issues and required significantly more than 90° rotation around the paddle area to reliably provide the 90° at the catches. Okay, there was no smooth 3L connector then.

Edited by Lipko

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Looking good! One question about the front suspension: Are you sure the vertical liftarms between the upper and lower wishbone still fit with the wheel hubs leaning backwards (caster)? The ball joints of the wheel hub won't make a height difference of 4 studs (heart to heart). Or did you insert ball joints with axle instead of ball joints with pin to gain a little height (with axle stick a little further out of the pin hole)? I'm curious how you did that.

I use pin-balljoints on both sides. In practice there is enough slack in the elements to account for the small distance difference of 0.2 studs

Looking sweet already. I look forward to the chassis with actual bricks. Keep up the good work!

I really like the huge amount of space you have below your steering wheel with paddles. In your face Porsche :tongue:

Thx, I did try to maximize the space below the steering column :classic:

Okay I'm taking a few moments to decipher this puzzle.. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me but it totally looks like the steering column is hanging midair?! :laugh:

I have a few questions about the paddle shift mechanism too. As far as I can tell, the orange bionicle tooth moves a yellow knobwheel and is connected to the 3L thin liftarms usign one of these

10197.jpg

but wouldn't that create backlash in the other shift while engaging one of them?

also it's simple yet brilliant how you ensured that the knob wheels turn in 90 degree increments all the time, this MOC is just full of innovation :thumbup:

The steering column is based on this Bionicle piece (which isn't available in LDD): 50904.gif

I used it also in my Liebherr LTM11200. It looks extremely versatile, but in practice it is not often very useable. But in this case it was.

I think you have deciphered the paddleshift mechanism correctly. The two bionicle teeth are completely indepedent. If you pull the right paddle only the right tooth will move and turn the knobwheel. The left bionicle tooth sits low enough not to be touched by the rotating knobwheel. I use some elastic bands to push the paddles backwards and thereby the bionicle teeth downwards.

Hmm, I wonder how it will perform. Based on the Porsche and my experience, the mechanism that's restricts the rotation to 90°increments should be closer to the changeover catches. In my system, there was the same amount of knob gear pairs but no long axle with CV joints, and it still had switching issues and required significantly more than 90° rotation around the paddle area to reliably provide the 90° at the catches. Okay, there was no smooth 3L connector then.

In my Hommage I used the old drivingrings with the smooth axleconnectors. That mechanism worked flawlessly 100% reliable with 90° rotations. So I assume that the new 3L smooth connectors will give the same behaviour. I do am a bit worried about the slack in the gearing of the knobwheels and CV-joints. So I might have to either move the limiter (aka lock-the-knobgear-at-90°-wheel) to another knob gear (for instance the lower one at the steering column), or add a second limiter in the back of the car. The point is that you need a limiter near the paddle shifters because the bionicle teeth will only move the knobwheel a bit beyond the 45° point. The limiter will push it to the full 90°. On the other hand you also need the levers that operate switching mechanism to be quite precise in the 90° orientation as well (as we know from the Porsche). So it will all depend on the slack in the system if a single limiter is enough, or that I will need two.

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[...]

The steering column is based on this Bionicle piece (which isn't available in LDD): 50904.gif

I used it also in my Liebherr LTM11200. It looks extremely versatile, but in practice it is not often very useable. But in this case it was.

[...]

Interesting! I've got a bunch of that piece and I always though it looked very interesting and useful, yet I never found a way to use it (or saw anyone else use it) :laugh:

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Interesting! I've got a bunch of that piece and I always though it looked very interesting and useful, yet I never found a way to use it (or saw anyone else use it) :laugh:

I have seen it used by thirdwigg in one of his unimogs as a portal axle before, nice and sturdy!

Jeez this is looking good, lookin forward to the final product. Really motivating to get into supercars

Edited by Nalyd997

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I can't wait to see the final result! I hope all will work in the real build and there will be minimal friction.

I'm thinking about motorisation, I would like to put two XL motors facing each other in the place of V12 engine driving one gear, steering M motor on the right side of central tunnel and battery box near the rear axle, or above it after some modifications.

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Fun to sit back with coffee and finally get around to reading this thread. This is really turning out to be one beautiful machine, just like we all knew it would. Just added to the "follow this" thread list :classic:

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thx for all the replies and kind comments :blush:

Next update will take some time I'm afraid, I first have to do a (considerable) bit of sorting before I can start building the chassis :sceptic:

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Isn't the fake engine still too big for that scale? I think custom made V12 would fit it better. How big is the gearbox? Will it be possible to add PF?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

No it isn't. In fact, it's near perfect...

I have measured a LEGO piston engine to have a bore of around 10mm (diameter), and a stroke of 8mm (one stud). This gives one cylinder 0.628 cc. Scaling for 1:8.85 (the scale mentioned earlier) gives 435.5 scale cc per cylinder. 12 cylinders gives 5226 cc - remarkably close to the real DB11's 5.2-litre engine.

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