Main Street Mafia: Day One

[Piratedave84]

Damn, I'm at the Emporium for 9 hours, and then all this happens?! I can't believe you guys left me out of the fun!

The votes are good, and I'll never not say that a vote isn't justified (except those attention-grabber votes. Damn those.), but out of all this behavior, the only strange ping I got was from Wanda.

The only strategy (if there is one at all) that I can see is trying to just fade out until tomorrow, when hopefully everyone's forgotten about this vote.. But again, I don't try to guess people's strategies - I'm usually wrong.

I

Wanda's been playing a while, though.. Right? Or did I miss that? Inexperienced or not, saying absolutely nothing about a direct vote is just...weird. And scummy. Scummy vibes.

Anyway, I'll go and Vote: Wanda (Piratedave84). I'm willing to change it, I just need a really good reason for the behavior.

I'm not sure if you misquoted but I don't understand what strategy you are referring to here.

As for the other votes on me, I can see how what I said, which was also said by 4 other players, can be misconstrued as an attempt to evade my scum buddies but rest assured it is not. I am town, that I can assure you.

I'm not sure what's expected of me from my accusers and I'll gladly address it I you would be so kind as to explain what's your reasoning.

I addressed my original post in a later statement and I stand by my original decision not to vote.

[MagPiesRUs]

I apologize, my time zone work schedule is opposite to most of yours. Got a few rough night shifts behind me, and I of course can't comment on anything if it's my legal coffee break.

But what can I say? It's Day One, we know nothing concrete yet, but can only go after each other's behaviors. Or in the case of Shirley Carter and Brian Barnes, their history. I know I've got some history behind me, too, so I don't think it's fair to base votes on that alone.

Eugene and Irene seem to be the most vocal ones out of the bunch, but they have both refrained from voting thus far. Interesting strategy, since it puts them on the front-and-center but they seem to avoid being the spearhead to a lynch mob.

Really?! You almost made me spill my coffee when I heard this! I understand Shirley wanted to put wheels into motion, but she didn't really say anything that could be "on to". Your eagerness in jumping the nearest bandwagon makes you the most suspicious one in this early stage, mate.

Vote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

Bandwagon? One person isn't a bandwagon.

Interesting conclusion, but I don't know if I agree with it. It may have been a while since my last time out of the kitchen, but last time I checked, the first and second vote draw a lot more attention to one's self than a scum would be interested in obtaining. Of course there's always the WIFOM argument to be made, but I don't know if I'd agree with that either. Anyways, I'd expect more of Al than to show his scummy hands this easily with nothing more than a hop on a bandwagon.

I can assure you I don't have scummy hands. To be safe though, I always wash my hands before I cut hair.

I heard some of the conversations when I was cleaning. The vote tossed to Al stood out to me though. He bandwagoned (relatively early, I might add) with a sort of odd comment and not much analysis. Granted there's not much analysis that can be done so early but it seemed like he didn't even try to rationalize his vote. Just a "Well this person said X, so I'm gonna go with X." type of situation, almost trying to shift blame off of him as fast as possible, maybe getting an early lead for those mafia members where we think one of them is with us as a friend.

I had no blame on me to begin with. Why would I need to shift it, and why would I need to do it as fast as possible? And why did you do the exact same thing as me until you were prompted to explain yourself?

Actually Pamela, I'm not throwing suspicion on anyone and that includes Al. I am merely troubled by his one and only post to vote when he usually has many thoughtful things to say. I would have brought this up regardless of who he has voted for.

I was planning to come in on the donut vs. fish debate, but I just couldn't decide. I was holding off on voting for either one because I didn't want to make a mistake and choose the wrong food.

I would argue that my contribution so far has been a lot more helpful than many others'. Maybe not for me personally, but for the discussion as a whole.

Like the rest of you, I'm troubled by Al's support of my, frankly, non-vote. Why vote for Gregory? She was at the top of the page 3. It was reason enough to start with.

What does that mean?

[Shadows]

Too many posts to respond individually, so I'll just state my whole position for the day.

A vote was started. It had no real basis, it was designed to see who jumped on the bandwagon, who needlessly defended the accused and what the accused themselves would say. It was a conversation starter. It clearly did that. I thought that was fairly obvious and said I would sit back and see how it went before committing, thus encouraging that conversation.

That said, at the end of the day, we need someone to get 10 votes, and if that means joining a bandwagon to achieve that goal, so be it, it's day 1, we're not going to make a brilliant decision, but making one is better than not and will hopefully help us on day 2.

Many of you don't seem to understand these concepts and have used the course of the discussion to throw around a lot of random accusations based on how people have reacted. That's excellent, to be honest, because it means that in your confusion, you're helping give us things to look at as the days progress. This will be a day 1 to remember as a source of subtle clues, a lot better than most.

Going back to the need for 10 votes, I have no problem with a day 1 bandwagon, but in this case I actually feel pretty decent jumping on. Al, an experienced member of this town, jumped on the original vote far too quickly. I even hinted at that when I posted what I did, making it clear that while I might support such a vote later, I would like to hear from the accused. That was the reasonable response and one I would have expected from Al but didn't get. Therefore ...

Vote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

[Lady K]

Bandwagon? One person isn't a bandwagon.

I can assure you I don't have scummy hands. To be safe though, I always wash my hands before I cut hair.

I had no blame on me to begin with. Why would I need to shift it, and why would I need to do it as fast as possible? And why did you do the exact same thing as me until you were prompted to explain yourself?

I was planning to come in on the donut vs. fish debate, but I just couldn't decide. I was holding off on voting for either one because I didn't want to make a mistake and choose the wrong food.

I would argue that my contribution so far has been a lot more helpful than many others'. Maybe not for me personally, but for the discussion as a whole.

What does that mean?

Please do argue how your contribution has been more helpful than others. First post to cast a vote with no personal explanation given and then your second post didn't provide any new or thoughtful observations. I don't see how this is more helpful. So, my vote......

Vote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

[jimmynick]

I think you're on to something there:

Vote: Gregory McHenry (Lady K)

Al is correct that one vote does not a bandwagon make, but I am interested in why he thinks Shelly is "on to something" when Shelly's reason for voting for Gregory was a sense of scumminess. And a sense of scumminess can swing any way on Day One.

I'm happy voting for Al since a consensus seems to be building in his direction.

Vote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

[def]

Al is correct that one vote does not a bandwagon make, but I am interested in why he thinks Shelly is "on to something" when Shelly's reason for voting for Gregory was a sense of scumminess.

There was no sense of scuminess, I made that up to start people voting.

[Kintobor]

I'm going to have to agree with everyone. We need that lynch today, as it will help us down the road. Al has been both rather quiet, and when he does post it generally includes a lack of activity.

Unvote: Brian (Shadows)

Vote: Al (TinyPiesRUs)

[def]

What does that mean?

Sorry, that was unclear. I voted for him randomly because he was at the top of the page. What was your reason?

[MagPiesRUs]

One vote is never anything to get worked up about. Two votes is enough to get someone worried, but is ultimately harmless. The vote on Gregory certainly wasn't a bandwagon, and I didn't expect it to form into one (at least, not unless Gregory actually did get caught off guard and slip up). I voted for him half-jokingly, but also knowing that it would be helpful in gauging reactions.

Of the responses, Irene's stood out to me most:

And wow, day 1 is off to the usual start. Someone throws out a vote, someone scummily jumps on it, someone else lazily says they might join the bandwagon...

now, not saying I have anything more solid to vote with yet, but we've got multiple people jumping on gregory here with NO basis. Oh sorry, "general scumminess" - aka made 3 fluffy, role-playing posts so far in the start of day 1 WHERE YOU"RE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT. Hey, I have ZERO evidence that Greg is town or scum or 3rd party, but that also means I sure don't have any reason to vote him off yet.

I'm HOPING that Shelly was just throwing a name out to see who jumps on it - seems like she's really anxious to get past the donut talk and get serious - but considering how day 1 lynches go, why not (if she's scum) do exactly this? Throw a name out knowing it can't really ever be held against you, watch everyone jump on the bandwagon, and know you're lynching a townie rather than risk the same thing happening to a Milano? Not a bad plan actually.

I'm not sure what to make of Irene's overreaction to the two votes on Gregory. I don't believe he'd be so blatant if both he and Greg were scum, but I can imagine he might try to pass himself off as the voice of reason by defending another townie and criticising an early spitballing Day One vote.

Too many posts to respond individually, so I'll just state my whole position for the day.

A vote was started. It had no real basis, it was designed to see who jumped on the bandwagon, who needlessly defended the accused and what the accused themselves would say. It was a conversation starter. It clearly did that. I thought that was fairly obvious and said I would sit back and see how it went before committing, thus encouraging that conversation.

That said, at the end of the day, we need someone to get 10 votes, and if that means joining a bandwagon to achieve that goal, so be it, it's day 1, we're not going to make a brilliant decision, but making one is better than not and will hopefully help us on day 2.

Many of you don't seem to understand these concepts and have used the course of the discussion to throw around a lot of random accusations based on how people have reacted. That's excellent, to be honest, because it means that in your confusion, you're helping give us things to look at as the days progress. This will be a day 1 to remember as a source of subtle clues, a lot better than most.

Going back to the need for 10 votes, I have no problem with a day 1 bandwagon, but in this case I actually feel pretty decent jumping on. Al, an experienced member of this town, jumped on the original vote far too quickly. I even hinted at that when I posted what I did, making it clear that while I might support such a vote later, I would like to hear from the accused. That was the reasonable response and one I would have expected from Al but didn't get. Therefore ...

Vote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

I disagree, a vote is much more helpful in getting someone to talk than holding off on doing so for no reason. What does saying you'll wait for the defendant's response achieve before you vote achieve that an actual vote doesn't?

Al is correct that one vote does not a bandwagon make, but I am interested in why he thinks Shelly is "on to something" when Shelly's reason for voting for Gregory was a sense of scumminess. And a sense of scumminess can swing any way on Day One.

To be honest, I didn't find anything particularly odd about Greg's posts. But then, there was nothing odd about anyone's posts up until that point because none of them had anything to do with the actual game. My vote just helped to get the ball rolling.

For the time being, I will Vote: Irene Allen (mostlytechnic), though I'm tempted to vote for Brian too. His reaction to the votes and his defence bug me a little, but he's always an elusive fellow regardless of his allegiance.

Oops...

Unvote: Gregory McHenry (Lady K)

Vote: Irene Allen (mostlytechnic)

[jimmynick]

There was no sense of scuminess, I made that up to start people voting.

I realize that. However, it is what you said and what Al saw when he voted for Gregory.

[Dannylonglegs]

You are right, sorry! I just did not hear you before. I must've been on a coffee break.

What comes to Wanda's behaviour, I'd peg it down to inexperience - for now. We are all grasping at straws at this point, anyway.

Heh, that's quite alright. I assumed as much, in fact, but I still felt the need to draw it to your attention.

As for Wanda's experience, I must differ in opinion. She's seen as many "films" as I have and more recently to boot. I can't agree that she should benefit from the inexperience card any longer...

That said, I feel compelled to Unvote: Wanda (Piratedave84).

While I don't believe she's as naive as you suggest, I was not taking into account some other relevant points of discussion. (Like the discussion thread). I realize now that what I was interpreting as scummy was likely only a result of an Internet connection that's crummy. I rescind my earlier accusations.

Considering that Al is experienced at these...situations. I do have a hard time believing he would blow his scummy cover. However, he's certainly not acting like much of a town considering that it was, as Russel pointed out, his only post of the day and it contained little more than his vote. If he's town, he's not trying very hard to be helpful. So why should we not find his scummy attitude scummy just because he is "experienced?" Scummy is scummy, whether one is experienced or not. If nothing else, my vote and the added pressure will hopefully get him to come out of himself a little more...or at least I'd like to think it will. We shall see.

I don't really agree with that logic. If my (fallable) memories serve me, Al is always a more taciturn townie. Also, I can't wrap my head around a scum willingly putting himself into such a situation as Al ended up in. A smart scum would at least provide a rationale for voting so swiftly. And of course it's obvious to me at least that he's only adding emphasis to Shelly's vote.

I'm really surprised that some of you are actually following on my poke vote for Pirate Dave Wanda. It was a ridiculous vote - so ridiculous that Wanda didn't even acknowledge it - and yet here some of you followed it when there are better candidates around.

Unvote: Wanda Barnes (Piratedave84)

Vote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

It's been long enough; Mr. Cooper jumped on the first lynch candidate available without giving reasons and hasn't said anything since (and he didn't say anything before that either).

it wasn't that rediculous. Or if it was, I'm just not that bright.

The fact that he didn't acknowledge the vote is honestly what triggered my suspicion. That, combined with his lackluster attendance and seeming disinterest in anything, bugged me.

As for the other votes on me, I can see how what I said, which was also said by 4 other players, can be misconstrued as an attempt to evade my scum buddies but rest assured it is not. I am town, that I can assure you.

I don't believe that any one is accusing you of "trying to evade" connections with other scum, it's mostly (at least, in my thinking) that you were so utterly wishy-washy and did not even acknowledge a vote cast in you, as if you could just trust it to blow away.

Now I'm going to cast my vote on someone who I genuinely HAVE been suspicious of all day. Vote: Ace (Kintobor)

What first drew my suspicion was his lack of attendance in the earlier, fluffier portion of the day, and now what has me suspicious of him is a number of things, but mostly his recent jump onto the Al bandwagon (even when he stated earlier that Shadows' indecision was much more scummy that Al's hasty vote). It reeks of convenience to me. We still have plenty of day left before a bandwagon vote like his is necessary to seal the lynch.

[Kintobor]

Now I'm going to cast my vote on someone who I genuinely HAVE been suspicious of all day. Vote: Ace (Kintobor)

What first drew my suspicion was his lack of attendance in the earlier, fluffier portion of the day, and now what has me suspicious of him is a number of things, but mostly his recent jump onto the Al bandwagon (even when he stated earlier that Shadows' indecision was much more scummy that Al's hasty vote). It reeks of convenience to me. We still have plenty of day left before a bandwagon vote like his is necessary to seal the lynch.

Al's lack of participation and his general lack of input compared to Brian's increasing helpfulness is why I switched over to him.

Also, Al didn't participate in the fluff, yet under your logic he's even scummier than I am, so why didn't you vote for him? So is Russell and Brian, who did speak but not as much as I did. Why not vote for one of those three if that's the logic you want to run with?

[TrumpetKing]

Well, we have to reach a decision, and the first vote is usually pretty telling. I understand the case for Al and it makes sense to me for a Day One choice.

Unvote: Wanda (Piratedave84)

Vote: Al (TinyPiesRUs)

Here's to a hopefully successful lynch result, and for better information to come from night results. I still think Wanda and Russell's eagerness to defend her (with a rather faulty defense) are topics worth looking into going towards tomorrow's discussion and possibly decision.

[MagPiesRUs]

I've noticed quite a few people drop in and out without saying anything. I would appreciate at least knowing where I stand at the moment. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem content to vote for whoever sticks their head out furthest and refuse to find any alternatives even when plenty of time remains in the day. At this stage, I don't expect anyone to vote for someone simply "because we need a lynch".

I find it a little insulting that so many seem to think that I was genuinely trying to start a bandwagon on Gregory. Even though it was so early in the day at that point, that literally nothing of any worth had been said prior. At the very least, give me some credit and say it was a WIFOM.

Also, I am the watcher. Actually, that's what I'm called, but I guess I'm more of a tracker because I can see who one person targeted each night.

[Dragonfire]

I haven't had time to read any of the posts, and I probably won't be back for about 12 or so hours. I'm going to vote just in case the day ends and I get penalised.

Vote: Brian Barnes (Shadows)

I'll explain it more later.

[def]

a lot of people seem content to vote for whoever sticks their head out furthest

You barely stuck your head out at all. That's half the reason you got put up

Also, I am the watcher. Actually, that's what I'm called, but I guess I'm more of a tracker because I can see who one person targeted each night.

Yeah, fine. I'll buy that. He better have some results to go with it.

Unvote: Al

Vote: Brian Barnes (Shadows)

[MagPiesRUs]

You barely stuck your head out at all. That's half the reason you got put up

It was definitely the riskiest move of the day, and I fully expected to be questioned over it. Though it was a mistake to have done it at a time when I wouldn't be around to respond to most of the population.

[Shadows]

Also, I am the watcher. Actually, that's what I'm called, but I guess I'm more of a tracker because I can see who one person targeted each night.

A questionable logic, but at least from my memory of this town and its past, such a role usually exists. That would be easily learned with a little research. It's a convenient claim and given the lateness of the day, changing our votes now will guarantee no lynch for the day, which will hurt us, so I can't do it.

Unvote: Al

Vote: Brian Barnes (Shadows)

If you are serious about unvoting this late in the day and reducing the odds of a lynch, you may want to redo yours, I'm not sure that format would be considered acceptable.

You may also want to reconsider the vote for me since it was clearly unfounded and I'm not going to make an impossible to verify role claim at the last minute to save myself. I'm town, but not particularly valuable to it except for actually participating, which could be considered the most valuable trait of all.

[MagPiesRUs]

A questionable logic, but at least from my memory of this town and its past, such a role usually exists. That would be easily learned with a little research. It's a convenient claim and given the lateness of the day, changing our votes now will guarantee no lynch for the day, which will hurt us, so I can't do it.

If you are serious about unvoting this late in the day and reducing the odds of a lynch, you may want to redo yours, I'm not sure that format would be considered acceptable.

You may also want to reconsider the vote for me since it was clearly unfounded and I'm not going to make an impossible to verify role claim at the last minute to save myself. I'm town, but not particularly valuable to it except for actually participating, which could be considered the most valuable trait of all.

There's still 13 hours left in the day, which is about as long as it took for the bandwagon against me to form from start to finish. If you believe I'm faking my claim, fine. It's far, far more likely I'm telling truth, but fine. But if you're only sticking to your vote because you don't believe there's enough time to choose another candidate (or because you're the next most achievable lynch), then I'm unimpressed.

[Sandy]

Bandwagon? One person isn't a bandwagon.

It's a start. Especially when it was pretty obvious Shirley/Shelly only made her vote to get the ball rolling. And boy did you roll that ball!

Also, I am the watcher. Actually, that's what I'm called, but I guess I'm more of a tracker because I can see who one person targeted each night.

Ooh, a last minute role call! It won't affect my choice, since I do not have any better alternatives at this point, but it might be useful information if you actually come up town. If you do, it'll be a damn shame, but Day One is always a game of russian roulette.

[MagPiesRUs]

It's a start. Especially when it was pretty obvious Shirley/Shelly only made her vote to get the ball rolling. And boy did you roll that ball!

So do you think there was ever a possibility of a proper bandwagon forming then? I'm not sure what you're accusing me of now.

[StickFig]

Ok, now that Al Cooper has responded to our concerns, I feel less worried about him and more about Brian Barnes. I believe I will have one more chance to get on and post, so I'm going to swap my vote now. If we need my vote to move for a lynch later, so be it, but here's who I think is the scummiest:

Unvote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

Vote: Brian Barnes (Shadows)

[Shadows]

There's still 13 hours left in the day, which is about as long as it took for the bandwagon against me to form from start to finish. If you believe I'm faking my claim, fine. It's far, far more likely I'm telling truth, but fine. But if you're only sticking to your vote because you don't believe there's enough time to choose another candidate (or because you're the next most achievable lynch), then I'm unimpressed.

The problem is less the number of hours and more the time they fall in. I won't be around for much longer tonight and it's likely I won't get back in time to review whatever develops after this and then vote accordingly. I do think you could be faking the role, it's a very easy one for a scum to fake, as a matter of fact, I think I did exactly that in a past life. In this town.

I'm going to leave my vote where it is and hope to manage to get back in time to see if I should change it. I still think it's the best of what we have right now, which is admittedly very little.

Ok, now that Al Cooper has responded to our concerns, I feel less worried about him and more about Brian Barnes. I believe I will have one more chance to get on and post, so I'm going to swap my vote now. If we need my vote to move for a lynch later, so be it, but here's who I think is the scummiest:

Unvote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

Vote: Brian Barnes (Shadows)

I don't know how anything he has said makes him any more town looking, nor do I know how anything I've said makes me scummy, especially given that it is day 1, so I have no real idea how to respond to what doesn't even amount to an accusation.

We're a fickle bunch today, but at least we're talking and that will pay off later, so carry on. As I said before, I hope to get back before the day ends, but can't guarantee it because of the timing.

[MagPiesRUs]

The problem is less the number of hours and more the time they fall in. I won't be around for much longer tonight and it's likely I won't get back in time to review whatever develops after this and then vote accordingly. I do think you could be faking the role, it's a very easy one for a scum to fake, as a matter of fact, I think I did exactly that in a past life. In this town.

I'm going to leave my vote where it is and hope to manage to get back in time to see if I should change it. I still think it's the best of what we have right now, which is admittedly very little.

Fair enough. I'm starting to leaning more towards town on you, so I'm reluctant to vote for you. Of the three of us who involved in this Greg fiasco, I'm actually most suspicious of Shirley. It feels a little too much like she's just going through the motions to me. Being the first to cast a vote and calling out people for not voting. But he's done little else. Not that I expect him to be a leader and carry the town every time. But his vote for me still bugs me. I'm actually surprised at how seriously he and other veterans took my vote.

[def]

Fair enough. I'm starting to leaning more towards town on you, so I'm reluctant to vote for you. Of the three of us who involved in this Greg fiasco, I'm actually most suspicious of Shirley. It feels a little too much like she's just going through the motions to me. Being the first to cast a vote and calling out people for not voting. But he's done little else. Not that I expect him to be a leader and carry the town every time. But his vote for me still bugs me. I'm actually surprised at how seriously he and other veterans took my vote.

It is going to disappoint you, but I haven't found all the scum yet. As for going through the motions, that is all day one is for me. You made a comment about Gregory's suspicious behaviour, and frankly, there was none. That earned a vote. Claiming a role that often appears made it better not to vote for you.

Brian seconded it, and supported his lynch, though he didn't vote for him. And he's happy to lynch the claimed watcher, just cuz. I would rather no lynch, than to lynch the watcher day one. Actually, the only time I ever snagged scum on day one was in an identical situation, where the lynchee claimed doctor, and a scumbum argued that they had to be lynched anyway.

It's true, I haven't done much else (though substantially more than you, I must add). In fact, I still haven't read page one. I get tired reading about play-cooking. I didn't read anything much until after voting opened.

I'm fine with my vote on Brian, and I'm fine with a no-lynch rather than possibly lynching the watcher.