brickosouch

High speed brickosouch's modified lego (~40km/h)

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Hello,

I would like to present my work on lego : modification of power function in a rather clean way to achieve better lego speed.

Two of my best model, I think:

- A car (drift on dry road, reach 40km/h and has good corner speed)

The rear car tyre after 3 hours of ride.

reartyre.jpg

- A motorcycle (~ 30km/h, ride like a true one, can start without launching it)

The motorcycle tyre after 1 hours of ride.

pneu-ar700.jpg

The modifications done on the motor will be explained in the next post.

I can explain any things if you want : ball bearing, 3d printing, motor specs, transmission, suspension...

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This is quite incredible! I am suprised the wheels tayed on the axles at all. I am curious what did you change.

Edited by Zblj

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Thanks for your reply.

To modify the PF-M motor I put a mini-z motor in it. The size of the motor fit exactly to the size of the PF-M lego motor.

Once you put this kind of motor you can't use lego battery or controler as the thermistor will not sustain the intensity the motor required (> 10A).

So I used an ESC (electronic speed controler) for 1/16 model like this : RC ESC 20A Brushed Car Motor Speed Controller For 1/16 (found on ebay).

Then you need proper battery. AA size NiMH can't give more than 6A.

The best is to buy a Li Ion battery like this one : Avionics Lipo 450Mah / 7.4V 30C + a charger like this one : TEAM Orion IQ240. This battery can deliver 13.5A. And LiPo is much easier to use than NiMH.

Then you need any RC emittor and receiver. I have and like the FlySky GT3C because it has 3 channel.

The whole things bring you to sthg at least like 85Euro (motor:15, ESC:10, RC emittor 30E, battery+charger:30E).

Edited by brickosouch

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The whole things bring you to sthg at least like 85Euro (motor:15, ESC:10, RC emittor 30E, battery+charger:30E).

Don't forget the large supply of spare tires! :)

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I tried this kind of motor :

Atomic A030 stock

Atomic AR076 Standard

Atomic stock R evolution

SoftPN racing 50T

- some technic specs tested :

Motor @9v without load stalled:

lego PF M 0.065A 0.85A

lego PF XL 0.08A 1.8A

Motor @5v without load

Atomic Standard 0.8A

Atomic Stock 1A

SoftPN racing 50T 0.95A

- some technic claimed by vendors :

@6v Max mechanical power max idle speed

Atomic Standard 15w 20000t/m

Atomic Stock 27w 23000t/m

Atomic Stock R evo 30w 25000t/m

After test :

The atomic standard is the one that heat the less.

The atomic stock is the one that has the best power/heat and consumption ratio.

The SoftPN racing 50T heat a lot and has no more power than the atomic standard. Not good.

The Stock R evo has a bit more power than the stock one, but heat a LOT more. Not usable.

=> So go for atomic standard or stock. It is already much more powerful than the PF-XL. And you 'll have to learn too how to make lego model than can handle this power (not easy at all).

Heat must be taken into account if you do not want to burn your motor after a few minutes of fun!

The atomic standard can be used in the PF-M just by making big hole in it.

For the atomic stock I made a special heat dissipator in alumium from a Motherboard heatsink.

Don't forget the large supply of spare tires! :)

Tyres wear not that fast I think. I like lego tyre, and they are cheaper than RC one :-).

Edited by brickosouch

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Can you give us the link to the motor?

Finally you tell us how you do it!!!!

Finally yes. I hope people will show me their project using this or how they enhance it (like in open source software).

I have still some information to dump here. Then I will make a link from youtube to this topic.

Just type the motor model in google or duckduckgo and pick the nearest and cheapest.

Ex :

- for the atomic standard : http://www.atomicmod...o-ar-076-bb.htm (not cheap but there is a link to the specs sheet in the page http://www.egrracing..._Spec_Sheet.pdf )

- the atomic stock seems not distributed anymore. Now there is stock-v, stock plus, ... don't know how they are. In france I would perhaps go to this one (stock-v) : http://www.mini-voit...od&productId=62 .

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More precise specs on mini-z motors :

http://rodolphe.souc...motor_specs.jpg

How to disassemble the pf-m without breaking everything, especially the gear.

  1. To open the case : unscrew the screw, with a cutter I cut a bit the two bit of dark grey plastic at the top that hold the light grey plastic. Pull the light grey part.
  2. The motor comes naturally of the case. Cut the wire. Don't let the plastics gear fell all over your room.
  3. Pull the bronze gear (tricky part). Usually it destroy the original lego motor as the motor case metal is too soft (I don't care).
    Pull really gently with the knives.
    gearoff8804.JPG
    gearoff8805.JPG
    As soon as there is enough room made with the knives, in order to avoid damage to the gear, I put this small metal part that has a U shape between the gear and the pliers :
    gearoff8806.JPG
    gearoff9565.JPG
  4. Then you make hole as you like on the case.
  5. weld BEC female wire on the motor.
  6. And you reassemble everything
  7. The result :
    moteurs_stock_standard-small.jpg

This is another way to pull the gear without braking the motor (as it was not a lego one). The screw at both side of the motor hold the shaft and the motor case.

gearoff9476.JPG

gearoff9478.JPG

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Hi Brickosouch, thank you so much for sharing this info. I also have a fast car and use same FlySky system like you. In my car I use 2 x RC 5292 motors. Run the whole setup with a DC step-up converter to increase the voltage from my 3S LiPo to 14 volt and still not satisfied with the speed of the car - around 27km/h :)

Since my model is ready I was thinking of replacing the motor in the RC 5292 with something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271305602749?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I wasn't sure if the one on eBay is more or less powerful then the original one so I asked in the forum and people pointed me to your topic :)

I have a few questions and it would be great if you can answer:

- I own 4 x PF L motors so I wonder if the atomic standard will fit in them too?

- Could you please share measurements of the atomic motor - length, hеigh etc? I am sure you already checked on eBay but maybe one can find a cheaper alternative somewhere :) Unfortunately I don't see dimensions in the date sheet of the atomic motor.

- And last question - how did you gear them down :) Since my model is ready and I would like to rebuild it as little as possible I was wondering what will happen if I connect motor directly to tires without gearing down - 100km/h maybe :laugh: Now seriously - maybe I can take a weaker and cheaper motor and then connect directly without gearing down. I can see the gears you used very shortly in your video but if you can share info and maybe some pictures it would be fantastic.

Thank you very very much!!!

p.s. Here my MOC:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109069650895357453401/albums/6054792203783224481

and it has remote controlled front and rear LEDs on the 3rd channel :)

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Missed this the first time around. Very impressive speed. Also like the motorbike a lot, good job man!

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Thats pretty cool using the mini Z motors which makes me think.... How about we go brushless as they last a lot longer then brushed motors though only thing avail in that can size is team orions mini Z motors... Might be a bit super overkill though! http://www.teamorion...-2-3.html?sl=EN

Can you please share what the size is?

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Thats pretty cool using the mini Z motors which makes me think.... How about we go brushless as they last a lot longer then brushed motors though only thing avail in that can size is team orions mini Z motors... Might be a bit super overkill though! http://www.teamorion.com/vortex-mini-z-bl-motor-stock-5600-kv-en-2-3.html?sl=EN

If I saw correctly that is an AC motor but lego is dc.

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/271305602749?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I wasn't sure if the one on eBay is more or less powerful then the original one so I asked in the forum and people pointed me to your topic :)

From this page http://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm, the rc motor 5292 takes 3.2A @ 9V when stalled (the amp will increase if the tension increase e.g. @12v). The ebay motor takes 2,9A at 12v when stalled. If the efficienty is the same (should be, like the lego one, the ebay motor seems of "low" quality), the original rc motor has more power.

I have a few questions and it would be great if you can answer:

- I own 4 x PF L motors so I wonder if the atomic standard will fit in them too?

- Could you please share measurements of the atomic motor - length, hеigh etc? I am sure you already checked on eBay but maybe one can find a cheaper alternative somewhere :) Unfortunately I don't see dimensions in the date sheet of the atomic motor.

This is actually a "standard" motor size : 130. Search "motor 130 size..."

From the research I done, the atomic stock is best power/efficiency/heat/price/quality ratio I found. I already tested the more powerful 130-size of pololu site, it's less powerful than the atomic, much more cheaper, but it heats a lot more : this parameter is really important!

From this page http://www.brickpicker.com/news/view.cfm/tbs-technuggets-13-inside-the-pf-lmotor-and-svmotor, the PF-L motor seems to be of 130 size. Must be properly checked though.

- And last question - how did you gear them down :)

You mean gear it down internally or externally with lego gears?

I do not gear it down internally, I gear it up externally, the atomic motor has so much torque :-) It's better to gear it up in order to put less torque on the lego axle.

p.s. Here my MOC:

Yeah, that powerful :-) Your chassis handle hardly the power of the rc motors.

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If I saw correctly that is an AC motor but lego is dc.

Actually you don't care DC or AC, cause you don't use the DC controller of lego. You have to buy another one. So if the modified motor is AC, buy an AC controller.

How about we go brushless as they last a lot longer then brushed motors though only thing avail in that can size is team orions mini Z motors... Might be a bit super overkill though! http://www.teamorion.com/vortex-mini-z-bl-motor-stock-5600-kv-en-2-3.html?sl=EN

Yeah, I did not saw that, perhaps because of the price and I don't have the proper controller. But that is an interesting way for sure. They must heat less. Though I did not search a lot, the price seems to be twice more.

Here is quite good comparison of different motors (in french) http://www.minizfrance.com/t429-referencement-des-moteurs . The team orion is not the only one. But be careful, some motor shown there are for "bigger" mini-z (the round one) : the size of these motors are bigger than the 130 size.

Actually for more power, I was thinking to stop using the pf-M. As I don't know if the internal gears will handle that.

Now that I have a CNC mill I would have liked to make a specific mount for 380 size motor or sthg like that, to have sthg more powerful and not more expensive. But before thinking to have more power than the atomic, you must think to change some part of lego : u-joint, ball bearing at least for the tyre mount... This two things are important to make a chassis that can handle the power. That is the next step I am thinking with the CNC. But I don't have the time now for that.

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Most impressive. I will have to try this when I have the time and funds! Props to the stop motion animation at the end of the bike video, I chuckled. I'm willing to be that took you as long as filming the rest put together. Thanks for sharing. Will be following this thread.

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In the previous post I posted some motor specs : http://rodolphe.souchaud.free.fr/lego/motor_specs.jpg

The atomic stock has 3N.cm when stalled (they don't precise tension in the specs, I assume 6v (mini-z run with 4*AAA accu ~ 5.2V)).

With the inner total reduction of the PF-M (1:24), at the output of the PF-M you should have 72N.cm.

With a battery lipo 7.4v, you will have more, sthg like 90N.cm.

In comparison the genuine PF-M has 11 N.cm @9v.

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Would you recommend a motor that work well with the Lego PF(it doesn't need to be the same size) that has good performance.

I don't understand well the question :-). From what I tested, the atomic stock is great for pf-M and perhaps pf-L. I can't say for other as I didn't test it.

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think you can figure out the tooth count gear pitch on the stock lego motor pinion gear? (the little brass gear) usually can find a lot of pinion gears online an might be able to find a set that will work in the stock gear box of the lego motors.

Also a better quesstion I think is not to look at the L motor for performance but the buggy motors! I'm sure thosse poor things could use a new motor in them a few of them probably have worn out brushes. Has anyone been able to take apart a buggy motor? (5292)

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