Latest CMF series impact on Historic themes

[Artanis I]

5 hours ago, thetang22 said:

I think these particular entries have a nice design on the whole.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment, in regards to the army-building talk.  Do they NEED to be viable for army building?  Can't they just be awesome in a way that makes you want to get 1 of each?  Is army-building the main measure of a figure's usability and awesomeness?  Is there not a sigh of relief that you can enjoy it without the nagging sense of obligation to get 5, 10, or even 100+ of the same figure (and thereby dodging the cost associated with that)?  No ill intent with these comments, merely a consideration for discussion.

If what you want is a cheap economical car and all that's available is a 2-seat million dollar Italian machine, you would be disappointed. Not because you don't like what's available but because it's not what you personally are looking for. Some people are looking for big bunches of the same minifig, and aren't finding it here. I don't think it's a complaint, just acknowledgement.

I will hunt down an elf and a dwarf (not that I like him much). I don't do the ancient history stuff, so, more gladiators for everyone else!

[MAB]

12 hours ago, Exetrius said:

However, consider the Roman and the Greek LEGO genres, both born from the CMF line. The Romans started with a Gladiator, but then followed the Soldiers, the Centurion and the Emperor. The Greeks have a Minotaur, Medusa, a Cyclops, Poseidon and Athena (basically). So: the Roman genre has 3 massable figures, the Greek genre has almost exclusively one-of-a-kind characters. Without duplicates, you can in both cases populate a small vignette. Now, try populating a 1m² Acropolis, compared to a 1m² Forum Romanum, with CMFs alone. You will find that your amount of Romans can grow with the size of your MOC, while the Greeks cannot. I think that's the main reason why the massable Romans appear to be more successful minifigs then the diverse Greeks

 

 

3

What about the original CMF army builder - the Spartan. The battle goddess is also good for army building, especially for civilian Greek women.

What we really need is a decent civilian toga wearer (for both ages).

12 hours ago, Exetrius said:

In conclusion, I would say that if you want to establish a new genre, like non-licensed Elves or Dwarves, it is essential to have a few army building figures as a base.   

 

 

 

Elves was started in S3 with an army builder. Dwarves S5 with an army builder. They have both been continued in this series.

I'm not sure I'd change the elf much, she is fine as an army builder as she is - the worst part is probably the hairstyle and a simpler hairstyle would have been better. Simple head changes make for variety for this one. The dwarf, I think I would make quite a few changes as he looks too unique to fit with the S5 dwarf.

Edited April 6, 2017 by MAB

[AmperZand]

13 hours ago, AgentKallus of Hydra said:

The bunny could work well in a historical setting, and a printed serving tray could make an interesting unique shield in the future.

WhiteFang's review has a picture in which the tray is used as a shield. Looks pretty good.

Am I the only person who thinks that if you replaced the Retro Spaceman's ray gun with a cutlass or trident, you would get an interesting fantasy fighter? And with some different heads, an army builder (though I'm not that into army building).   

[thetang22]

11 hours ago, x105Black said:

Not including army builder minifigures restricts our ability to do so, thereby inhibiting LEGO from making the money they could make by including even 1 in each series.

Lego doesn't include a significant more of an army-building-viable model in their boxes of these collectible minifigs, do they?  Don't they still produce something like 3-4 of each fig per box?  And I'd have to assume they generally produce a consistent number of boxes in line with previous series when releasing a new (non-themed) collectible minifigure box.

i guess the thing I'm thinking is that I doubt including an army-builder in a series would really net Lego any more money than normal.  I'd assume each series would be a 1-time production, and that they would not do additional production cycles based on popularity of 1-2 army building figs per cycle.  I may be wrong in that point, but if it is correct that they are limited in their supply, they can only expect to sell "x" number of boxes of this stuff, regardless of army builders being in it or not.  Taking that into consideration, it seems the minifig series (non-themed) hasn't had a problem selling over the years.

i would think army building of these figures is much more an after-market thing for a lot of people, which doesn't really do anything for Lego directly.

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by thetang22

[AmperZand]

@thetang22

You're almost certainly correct. My guess is that the overwhelming bulk of revenues from CMFs are sales directly to kids and to adults buying for kids (parents, grandparents etc), not to AFOLs. So AFOLs aren't a major consideration in LEGO's CMF planning. As few kids build armies - that's mostly an AFOL thing - "army builder" isn't a design criterion for LEGO.

 

[x105Black]

2 hours ago, thetang22 said:

Lego doesn't include a significant more of an army-building-viable model in their boxes of these collectible minifigs, do they?  Don't they still produce something like 3-4 of each fig per box?  And I'd have to assume they generally produce a consistent number of boxes in line with previous series when releasing a new (non-themed) collectible minifigure box.

i guess the thing I'm thinking is that I doubt including an army-builder in a series would really net Lego any more money than normal.  I'd assume each series would be a 1-time production, and that they would not do additional production cycles based on popularity of 1-2 army building figs per cycle.  I may be wrong in that point, but if it is correct that they are limited in their supply, they can only expect to sell "x" number of boxes of this stuff, regardless of army builders being in it or not.  Taking that into consideration, it seems the minifig series (non-themed) hasn't had a problem selling over the years.

i would think army building of these figures is much more an after-market thing for a lot of people, which doesn't really do anything for Lego directly.

I guess that's fair.  LEGO makes their money from third party vendors off the sales of whole boxes, not individual minifigures.  So they make the money no matter which ones are selling in the stores.  But perhaps a store will buy more if there is more demand.  For example, the store has sold out of army builder minifigures, and even though there are many minifigures left there is a demand for a new box, which prompts the vendor to order an additional supply.  It's speculative, and unlikely, but possible.  Still, I'm sure it doesn't have too much of an effect on the overall sales, so my initial comment on army builders increasing sales for LEGO seems to be overstating a minor effect at best.

[MAB]

I think they probably do consider army building to some extent. In the Character Encyclopedia they mention the Spartan is a fan favourite and that at least one fan has collected 300.

 

There have also been designer videos where they talk about trying to identify the popular ones (although not necessarily army builders) and make those ones more frequent.

[SirBlake]

We're talking about army building like kids don't do it too. You know how many original Kenner stormtroopers I had as a kid? More than a few, but not nearly as many as I wanted, I'll tell you that.

[Aanchir]

I think LEGO does design certain products with collecting multiples in mind (the Uruk-Hai Army set, for example, or the Nexo Knights battle packs which are generally devoid of named characters). But it varies by set and by theme. It's probably safe to say that most collectible minifigures are selected and designed for individual desirability, since they will generally be bought individually. Whether they make good army builders, then, is probably mostly an unintended consequence of whether the character archetype in question is expected to wear a uniform.

I tend to be mostly drawn towards collecting individual characters. If I get multiples of the same character it's usually either for parts or because they came in a set I wanted for other reasons. I did buy a second Raid VPR from Space Police for another Blacktron torso, but I never ended up opening it, so I guess I wasn't really committed to the idea. The only MOCs I've ever really contemplated making with large numbers of identical or near-identical characters are chess sets… which I guess is kind of ironic, since many AFOLs see chess sets as a means to assemble armies and for me it's more often the other way around!

[Exetrius]

22 hours ago, MAB said:

1. What about the original CMF army builder - the Spartan. The battle goddess is also good for army building, especially for civilian Greek women.

2. What we really need is a decent civilian toga wearer (for both ages).

3. Elves was started in S3 with an army builder. Dwarves S5 with an army builder. They have both been continued in this series.

1. Ah, yes indeed, the Spartan and Battle Goddess can both be considered army builders of the Greek genre. Unlike the Romans, though, there is no common theme (pattern, insigna, colour scheme) between the two, or with most of the other Greek figures. So, as far as army building goes, you are still stuck with a multitude of figures of the same rank, unless you find a way to create other ranks with minifig parts from other LEGO themes. The options can be very limited, because the CMF line is often the place where new genres are introduced.

Please bear in mind that Romans vs. Greeks is an example. The main message here is that (in my opinion), you need a few army builder figures, sharing a common theme, in order to have a good foundation for a new (historic/fantasy) genre. 

2. Agreed! 

3. I'm happy about that, great figures, although I still wouldn't put them side by side, as part of the same army, without major part swaps. 

[Robert8]

I think they introduce the warriors (Hun, Island, Spartan, Aztec, Egyptian, Winged, etc) intentionally as army builders 

[rodiziorobs]

On 4/5/2017 at 3:48 PM, Exetrius said:

I would say that if you want to establish a new genre, like non-licensed Elves or Dwarves, it is essential to have a few army building figures as a base.

I completely agree with this. While I don't really do army building myself anymore, I remember having a dozen or so generic knights as a kid (the scale mail torsos) that went well with pretty much every faction. With only main characters or very specific ones, it is hard to customize the story or setting (one of my problems with Elves: there are so few characters and they are mostly distinct).

Lately, I tend to buy CMFs (as with most Lego) just for the parts. I am actually planning on getting plenty of the Dwarf for use in MOCs, using the accessories like the hammer and hair parts as actual building elements rather than exclusively for minifigs.

[SirBlake]

Reposting what Exetrius said in the "latest impact of other themes thread to keep this one up to date...

 

 

• CMF (Series 18): Red Dragon Suit guy, blue Unicorn Knight, Spider Suit guy, Cat Suit guy and Elephant Suit girl (comes with new mouse!):

 

 

 

My personal thoughts on this series: while I think the dragon costume is kind of neat and I'll probably pick one up, it's not very useful to me. The rest are kind of a waste. I'm especially disappointed in the unicorn knight. That shield is pretty ugly. And seriously, white for the base color? Ugh.

Edited January 26, 2018 by SirBlake

[x105Black]

I don't like the shield as much as others, but I will still probably get 2.  I don't care for the cartoonish representation of the spider, and the cat is a bit overdone.  I don't mind the elephant suit.  The dragon is fantastic.

[Lyichir]

On 1/26/2018 at 5:22 PM, SirBlake said:

Reposting what Exetrius said in the "latest impact of other themes thread to keep this one up to date...

 

 

• CMF (Series 18): Red Dragon Suit guy, blue Unicorn Knight, Spider Suit guy, Cat Suit guy and Elephant Suit girl (comes with new mouse!):

 \

 

 

My personal thoughts on this series: while I think the dragon costume is kind of neat and I'll probably pick one up, it's not very useful to me. The rest are kind of a waste. I'm especially disappointed in the unicorn knight. That shield is pretty ugly. And seriously, white for the base color? Ugh.

The "horse costume" of the cowboy figure could also work just as well with knight parts for a comedic historic take (perhaps a knight who couldn't get a "real" horse). If only it could wear barding...

I wonder what the dragon suit guy would look like with Orca's "open mouth" head...

[x105Black]

8 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I wonder what the dragon suit guy would look like with Orca's "open mouth" head...

Looking forward to giving this a try!

[Exetrius]

@SirBlake Thanks for carrying the news over to this thread! 

Most of these may indeed be a little too cartoonish to blend in with actual castle, but some of their components can be very useful in that sense. @Lyichir's suggestion is a good one. Or, how about getting rid of the cat suit head assembly, add a chestplate, put on the spider suit guy's head with black hair. Voila, a vampire! 

[BrickJagger]

The Dragon Suit Guy is great! Easily my favorite figure in this series. While there's not a lot going on in terms of Fantasy/Historical stuff in this series, at least it's not licensed.

[AmperZand]

 

With just a few parts replaced/removed, the S18 cactus girl and flower pot girl would make good plant-monsters.

Not S18, but drawing on parts from the Ninjago Movie and TLBM S2 CMFs, here are some MOC denizens of the deep. I imagine the skeleton-ghost to be a soldier who died at sea in particularly tragic circumstances.

 

Comments, questions and splashing sounds welcome.

 

[x105Black]

Sploosh!

Those are some really nice ideas you've had.  They work well.  And yes, these minifigures are providing us with a lot of pieces, if we can stretch our minds to accommodate them.

[CallMeCarbiz]

I am most excited about the Red Dragon Suit guy. I would like to see what he looks like as a dragon knight with a black helmet with a red visor. Then I'll mount his head/mask on my castle's wall. 

And if that doesn't work out I'm sure my daughter will have him become the 2013 red dragon's baby.

[dgherko]

Just picked up my seventh Apache Chief minifig for my wild west world.  An undersized US cav regiment and many native tribes - one more with Apache Chief

[Digger of Bricks]

Looks like Series 19 has an undead/frozen antagonistic knight CMF lightly inspired after Fright Knights' Basil the Bat Lord. 

[Pulp Detective]

22 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Looks like Series 19 has an undead/frozen antagonistic knight CMF lightly inspired after Fright Knights' Basil the Bat Lord. 

There's a picture of this character on #legoleaks instagram,for anyone interested.

[Exetrius]

Trans light blue plume!!! I've been waiting for that for years (I think I specifically mentiomed that piece in one of my earliest posts in this thread, need to dig that up sometime..)!  Of course, the rest of the fig is fantastic too!